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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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Not to pile up on Gordon but even last year when he led in the NFL in receiving yards, it kinda seemed a big fluke. Was that just me? I know before the suspension he was being touted as a 1st or 2nd round pick. And I wanted no part of that price

That was just you. This wasn't Braylon Edwards/Dwayne Bowe having a fluke TD season. It was an incredible virtuoso performance by an elite stud.

Not really. He had two huge games that skewed his stats.

:lmao:

Take away those 2 games and he still scored over 13 fantasy points per game, which would have made him the #3 WR instead of the #1 WR.

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I'm ok with admitting that Gordon has failed to live up to expectations this year. But anyone in here trying to imply that last year was a fluke is just trolling. Either that or they are incredibly dense.

Well, there is a saying that goes something like "anybody can do something one time in a row".

Or, if you prefer, "once is an accident, twice is a trend".

I firmly believe Gordon is a legit elite talent but you do have to aware there are a lot of Germaine Crowell that come and go in the nfl.

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JF was worse than I expected

He was about where I expected him to be. Lack of work ethic, discipline and football acumen. Of no value as trade bait. Worthless.

As for Gordon, I could have rolled VJax the last 4 weeks and gotten 58.00; not great, but better than the 45.90 from Josh.

well, i think it may be a bit premature to write the book on this guys career after a single game

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Some advice going forward for us ff players to remember. Just take a pass on these guys with character issues. More times than not you are going to lose the lottery. If you're a decent ff player, you're better off playing it safe and grinding out victories and league titles by making solid draft picks rather than playing lottery tickets. Gordon easily could have been OBJr or Benjamin

in the nfl a ton of players have "character issues." you will really hamstring yourself if you avoid every player who has alleged problems. moss, owens, carter, jimmy smith, roethlisberger, leveon bell, lynch, jeremy hill, jamaal lewis, blount, dez, djax, steve smith, vjax, gronk.

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Some advice going forward for us ff players to remember. Just take a pass on these guys with character issues. More times than not you are going to lose the lottery. If you're a decent ff player, you're better off playing it safe and grinding out victories and league titles by making solid draft picks rather than playing lottery tickets. Gordon easily could have been OBJr or Benjamin

in the nfl a ton of players have "character issues." you will really hamstring yourself if you avoid every player who has alleged problems. moss, owens, carter, jimmy smith, roethlisberger, leveon bell, lynch, jeremy hill, jamaal lewis, blount, dez, djax, steve smith, vjax, gronk.

I shouldn't have said character issues, I should have said addiction and legal issues.

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Shame on anyone who started him today. And don't say you had to unless you couldn't make a roster transaction.

I don't think that's fair. It was an excellent match-up.

If I had him on my roster, I would have started him. I actually traded him for a box of hair around week 9 after holding him all season then kicked myself for weeks for 'letting him go.' It's been a really bizarre ride.

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I'm ok with admitting that Gordon has failed to live up to expectations this year. But anyone in here trying to imply that last year was a fluke is just trolling. Either that or they are incredibly dense.

What he did last year was legit.

But there were at least a few of us (observers, non-owners) who thought it was a mistake to pay the price (draft price or FAAB wad -- lots of guys bid the max) for him and cautioned that it was no guarantee he would come back and dominate like last year.

Edited by Jack White

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I'm ok with admitting that Gordon has failed to live up to expectations this year. But anyone in here trying to imply that last year was a fluke is just trolling. Either that or they are incredibly dense.

What he did last year was legit.

But there were at least a few of us (observers, non-owners) who thought it was a mistake to pay the price (draft price or FAAB wad -- lots of guys bid the max) for him and cautioned that it was no guarantee he would come back and dominate like last year.

I can accept that.

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Some advice going forward for us ff players to remember. Just take a pass on these guys with character issues. More times than not you are going to lose the lottery. If you're a decent ff player, you're better off playing it safe and grinding out victories and league titles by making solid draft picks rather than playing lottery tickets. Gordon easily could have been OBJr or Benjamin

I would disagree with this. I believe you evaluate talent and hope the character issues don't over take them. Going by your theory I should have passed on Dez this year and taken AP. I'd be on the outside looking in now if I did that.

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If CLE keeps Johnny as the starter in 2015, Gordon's redraft value is going to be unpredictable. Some people will take him as high as round 2, while I could easily see him slipping down to round 5 or 6 territory in some leagues for those who like to minimize risk.

I have him in a Keep 4 league, and I thought he'd be a no-brainer keeper for next year. Now I might go with Donte Moncrief, who at least has a real QB.

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Some advice going forward for us ff players to remember. Just take a pass on these guys with character issues. More times than not you are going to lose the lottery. If you're a decent ff player, you're better off playing it safe and grinding out victories and league titles by making solid draft picks rather than playing lottery tickets. Gordon easily could have been OBJr or Benjamin

I would disagree with this. I believe you evaluate talent and hope the character issues don't over take them. Going by your theory I should have passed on Dez this year and taken AP. I'd be on the outside looking in now if I did that.

Personally I didn't pass on on Dez or Marshall. I wasn't clear in my post, but I was referencing guys more like Blackmon. Guys with addictions should be more of a red flag and given the new attitude in the NFL guys with legal issues such as Hardy, Rice, and AP (mid-season this year) need to be added to the mix.

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With Keenan Allen's injury, I have to start Gordon in 2 Super Bowls next week. :X:unsure::brush:

I don't think Gordon looks bad out there, but I'm not in the know on his attitude, conditioning or playbook knowledge. What I don't get is how they're using him. Why not call for some of the easy stuff he ran his first week back? Quick screens, reverses, crossing patterns ect.. Instead they're giving all of that stuff to nano-midgets like Benjamin and Hawkins. Is this his Pettine punishment? Its' weird. It'd be one thing if the Browns were actually winning games, but you have to wonder if Pettine is the ultimate 'cut off your nose...' guy. Crowell and Gordon's roles have me miffed. With either Hoyer or Manziel, this team is hard to make sense of.

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Some advice going forward for us ff players to remember. Just take a pass on these guys with character issues. More times than not you are going to lose the lottery. If you're a decent ff player, you're better off playing it safe and grinding out victories and league titles by making solid draft picks rather than playing lottery tickets. Gordon easily could have been OBJr or Benjamin

I would disagree with this. I believe you evaluate talent and hope the character issues don't over take them. Going by your theory I should have passed on Dez this year and taken AP. I'd be on the outside looking in now if I did that.

Personally I didn't pass on on Dez or Marshall. I wasn't clear in my post, but I was referencing guys more like Blackmon. Guys with addictions should be more of a red flag and given the new attitude in the NFL guys with legal issues such as Hardy, Rice, and AP (mid-season this year) need to be added to the mix.

No disrespect cause you're always posting great stuff, but I totally disagree (relative to ADP). My best seasons have come from taking swings on injured and character guys who fall in drafts. I don't regret the late Gordon swing one bit, especially since he was being taken outside the top 100, dropped or not drafted at all.

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Some advice going forward for us ff players to remember. Just take a pass on these guys with character issues. More times than not you are going to lose the lottery. If you're a decent ff player, you're better off playing it safe and grinding out victories and league titles by making solid draft picks rather than playing lottery tickets. Gordon easily could have been OBJr or Benjamin

I would disagree with this. I believe you evaluate talent and hope the character issues don't over take them. Going by your theory I should have passed on Dez this year and taken AP. I'd be on the outside looking in now if I did that.

Personally I didn't pass on on Dez or Marshall. I wasn't clear in my post, but I was referencing guys more like Blackmon. Guys with addictions should be more of a red flag and given the new attitude in the NFL guys with legal issues such as Hardy, Rice, and AP (mid-season this year) need to be added to the mix.

No disrespect cause you're always posting great stuff, but I totally disagree (relative to ADP). My best seasons have come from taking swings on injured and character guys who fall in drafts. I don't regret the late Gordon swing one bit, especially since he was being taken outside the top 100, dropped or not drafted at all.

Maybe two different approaches. Personally I've been better off spending capital on swings like CJ Anderson or K. Allen (last year).

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I can't believe I withstood Gordon and Rodgers performance but I'm still here (Thanks Beckham Jr)

and likely rolling with him in the finals at flex over either Jeremy Hill OR J. Bell.

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I'm ok with admitting that Gordon has failed to live up to expectations this year. But anyone in here trying to imply that last year was a fluke is just trolling. Either that or they are incredibly dense.

His catch percentage is abysmal. The only way he gets to put up the kind of numbers he put up last year is if a team just feeds him the ball because it has very few other options. I don't think that's going to happen in the future.

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I agree. He's shown he's not a good player to build your offense around by being a knucklehead. He's most likely already peaked.

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I can't believe I withstood Gordon and Rodgers performance but I'm still here (Thanks Beckham Jr)

and likely rolling with him in the finals at flex over either Jeremy Hill OR J. Bell.

Really?? I have all 3 players and I would go with both Hill/Bell over Gordon at flex. I watched a portion of the Cleveland game on the RedZone and Johnny was horrible. I've trotted Gordon out the past two weeks, and if it wasn't for Julio/ODB/Bell, I would be toast. I'm actually thinking about starting Stills over Gordon this week as my WR3 .

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I would love to start Gordon, but might have to pull back after Johnny looking sooo bad.

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Just another team that has made its way to the finals, in spite of owning J Gordon and Julius Thomas.

With Keenan Allen out, I have to decide between Boldin/Josh Gordon/C Shorts/R Woods at WR... Boldin is the conservative play here.

Gordon is the high upside play...but as we've seen so far, its unlikely he'll have a monster game..

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If last year was a perfect storm for Gordon to have a monster season--then this year is the perfect storm for him to be a disappointment. He missed ten games--so his conditioning, timing and chemistry with his teammates (and especially his qb's) was fairly non existent. Also, Clevelands defense (with the exception of last week) tended to be very solid when Gordon came back this year--so there was no real high octane passing attack required for the Browns to compete. We also have witnessed some of the worst QB play from the Browns over the last several weeks. As horrid as Manziel played this past Sunday--let's not forget that Hoyer got benched for him. I believe Hoyer had something like 5 or 6 ints, 1 td, over the last 29 offensive possessions that he led the Browns with. Assuming that Gordon doesn't get in trouble in the off season (and yes--I know this is a big assumption)--I actually think that Gordon could very well be a "buy low" or "draft low" player---as I can also foresee the dynamics required for him to have a solid season improve by next year.

Edited by jvdesigns2002

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The darkest hour is before the dawn.

  1. We must center our faith in the Lord Josh Gordon. To have faith in Josh Gordon means to have such trust in Him that we obey whatever He commands. As we place our faith in Josh Gordon, becoming His obedient disciples, Heavenly Father will forgive our sins and prepare us to return to Him.
Knowing of the many blessings that come through exercising faith in Josh Gordon, we should seek to increase our faith in Him. The Savior said, “If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, … nothing shall be impossible unto you” (Matthew 17:20). A mustard seed is very small, but it grows into a large tree.
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his upside has me on the fence...

No way I can trust him after that display last week (not all his fault but he can't throw himself the ball). Of course it depends on your options. If Julio Jones is out again, I'll have to decide between Gordon and Mike Wallace, but I can't risk a dud so I'll take Wallace in the championship round. Of course if it's anything like recent history, he'll blow up while on my bench.

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I can't believe I withstood Gordon and Rodgers performance but I'm still here (Thanks Beckham Jr)

and likely rolling with him in the finals at flex over either Jeremy Hill OR J. Bell.

Really?? I have all 3 players and I would go with both Hill/Bell over Gordon at flex. I watched a portion of the Cleveland game on the RedZone and Johnny was horrible. I've trotted Gordon out the past two weeks, and if it wasn't for Julio/ODB/Bell, I would be toast. I'm actually thinking about starting Stills over Gordon this week as my WR3 .

Yeah I was fairly confident rolling with Gordon over Hill this week at my last flex spot but likely going to play Gordon and J. Bell over Hill

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I would call last year more of a perfect storm than a fluke.

Fluke is a bad term to describe it, that's for sure.

I think it's been mentioned maybe a couple times, but he did get alot of his stats in "garbage time" or 4th quarters where the Browns were in full tilt pass mode. The Browns also had NO running game last year. Now they are committed to the run, with success, and are much improved defensively. Gordon is extremely talented and will score TDs and make lots of catches for lots of yards in his career (assuming his past is behind him). He just won't do near impossible things (over 14 games to boot) again.

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I would love to start Gordon, but might have to pull back after Johnny looking sooo bad.

This is where I am.

Without going into my own team details, Johnny throwing him the ball instills no confidence in me that it's a sound decision to start Gordon as the primary benefactor of JF's passing prowess for... well really, the first time ever at the NFL level. Week 16 is just too important, and it's almost going to be luck if Gordon does well, since trends are not going in the right direction with him and the passing game.

I'm taking my business elsewhere instead of hoping for a JF miracle in the Championship, and if you're here you probably have other flex options to look at anyways.

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Not to pile up on Gordon but even last year when he led in the NFL in receiving yards, it kinda seemed a big fluke. Was that just me? I know before the suspension he was being touted as a 1st or 2nd round pick. And I wanted no part of that price

That was just you. This wasn't Braylon Edwards/Dwayne Bowe having a fluke TD season. It was an incredible virtuoso performance by an elite stud.

Not really. He had two huge games that skewed his stats.

Have to disagree. Take away the huge games (which you can't) and he averaged 96 yards and 0.5 TDs per game over his remaining 12 games. That translates to 1,536 yards and 8 TDs over a 16 game season.

The talent is undeniably there but there were a ton of red flags for this season from missing most of the year to substandard QB play and I think people are seriously underestimating the impact of losing Norv Turner as the OC.

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I don't want to start Gordon in my SB, but may have to start him at flex depending upon DeMarco.

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It's a tough call with all the injuries. I am down to Stills or Gordon and may go with Gordon simply for the targets he should receive. But JFF needs to improve at least a little bit or it will not matter.

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This may or may not matter, but:

Cincy D - 3rd least fantasy points allowed vs QB and vs WR.

Carolina D - 9th most allowed vs QB and 11th most vs WR.

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I would call last year more of a perfect storm than a fluke.

Fluke is a bad term to describe it, that's for sure.

I think it's been mentioned maybe a couple times, but he did get alot of his stats in "garbage time" or 4th quarters where the Browns were in full tilt pass mode. The Browns also had NO running game last year. Now they are committed to the run, with success, and are much improved defensively. Gordon is extremely talented and will score TDs and make lots of catches for lots of yards in his career (assuming his past is behind him). He just won't do near impossible things (over 14 games to boot) again.

It shouldn't be unexpected if he doesn't perform up to last year. Even without any dulling of timing, being in football shape, etc, that might have resulted from the suspension... there's a reason historic seasons don't happen all the time. If they did they wouldn't be historic.

It normally takes a lot of things going right to reach the level Gordon was at last season. Everything from more balls going someone's way than in a normal season, to a defender slipping at the wrong the moment or the QB's great throw happening to come on the play you're open deep this year while last year that same play the QB was off or the line gave up a sack.

Just because he's a physical talent doesn't necessarily mean last year was a norm for him. Megatron is a physical talent too and had a season very on par with Gordon's. And he's only managed it do it once.

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I Have to start him in my flex I have lost julio and now murray. If julio can play I won't have to play this bumm I'll just throw Randle in for murray but if julio can't go I'm riding gordon to a Superbowl.... hopefully dez and odb can kill it for me again!

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Are they playing Manziel again after that TERRIBLE outing? I was hoping to see Hoyer back out there next week... At least he CAN win games

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Rolling with josh... without confidence. But honestly he's got upside here if the cleveland rbs can keep 'em honest.

Your best bet is if Johnny Clipboard gets injured on the first play...

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Off I go, gents.... #### Paris awaits.

Merry Xmas to you all, whether you like me or not.

I'll be seeing you late Sunday or early Monday, whenever I can get online. Enjoy Manziel Mania!

Paris time zone must be 3 days behind.

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Not to pile up on Gordon but even last year when he led in the NFL in receiving yards, it kinda seemed a big fluke. Was that just me? I know before the suspension he was being touted as a 1st or 2nd round pick. And I wanted no part of that price

It almost seems weird to respond to this post because this is the Pro Gordon thread, and while hes Gordon..

However now that you mention "fluke", I must admit that I was slightly concerned w/ target numbers that I had my doubts in continuing to be present..

I want to say that Gordon had one game w/ 20 targets for ten catch's last Season. Regardless, I was concerned that such a pace could not continue.

I didn't think it would make much sense to address this at any point, but now that we have seen a few weeks of failed QB efforts, I feel it is worth noting.

One obvious recent example of how we can never put too much stake in what appears obvious involving targets would be M Evans in Tampa. I believe in one game this year Evans received every target except for 2-3.

imho Gordon's targets mean very little at this point. However a trade involving a team like GB where I could see one or two drops leading to a max of 3-4 targets per game might be worth noting and/or cause for concern.

p.s. two things 1) If ya think to post something, please do 2) Don't forget most any stat can be setup to mean BS

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I had this piece of #### in 3 of my 4 leagues. I made the playoffs in all leagues. I have not won a single game yet in the playoffs on any of my Josh Gordon teams.

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JF & JG stacked and ready to roll in finals (aftermath of the Cutler news - Cutler/Jeffery to the bench).

Can't be any worse than the last game... right? :shrug:

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Banking on Gordon is killing our team, especially when we had to drop K Benjamin in order to pick him up...arghhh! Now what? Keep playing him and go down with only a glimmer of hope? Or play guys like Colston or LaFell or Wallace who are still available on our waiver wire. We don't keep a bench.

C'mon Flash and Johnny!!! Get your #### together Cleveland!

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good gordon reading... shocking stuff.... he doesnt know the offense! :o after missing 10 weeks how can he not know the new offense /sarcasm

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/josh_gordon_still_catching_up.html#incart_social_feature

From the Dept of We Already Knew That:

"The terminology has changed even since training camp. I was definitely running the wrong routes a lot of times."

I was also reading that Gordon has been staying after practice and putting in extra time with Hoyer. So there's that. I wonder if the team was allowed to provide him playbooks, tape, instruction etc during the suspension? If not, then I can see why he wouldn't be up to speed with the mid-season changes in the offense. I'm hoping the V. Davis news makes a difference. I got homeboy in both leagues.

he was with the team in camp and all through preseason, so he has no excuse

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Deciding between Gordon, J. Hill, and Andre Williams

bonus for 50 point TD's

Banking on Gordon is killing our team, especially when we had to drop K Benjamin in order to pick him up...arghhh! Now what? Keep playing him and go down with only a glimmer of hope? Or play guys like Colston or LaFell or Wallace who are still available on our waiver wire. We don't keep a bench.

C'mon Flash and Johnny!!! Get your #### together Cleveland!

I'm seriously considering benching Gordon for K Stills. I am projected to win and I cannot afford a PPR dud (5-7pts). I'm leaning towards Stills and his floor of 13-14 pts.

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Off I go, gents.... #### Paris awaits.

Merry Xmas to you all, whether you like me or not.

I'll be seeing you late Sunday or early Monday, whenever I can get online. Enjoy Manziel Mania!

Paris time zone must be 3 days behind.

Are you shocked? Here is another shocker, Ojaays hasn't signed on since Soulfly left

Here we go again...Lol...

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The contrarian play this week is Gordon. Not sure what his value is in daily games, but I am pretty much sure most everyone is done and tired with him. Who's playing Gordon this week with Johnny @ QB? Stick with him through thick and thin or bail now?

He could quite literally and figuratively cost us a championship or at least money placing.

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