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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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6 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Every day sober is a day sober. Since we have no idea the real motivation of a person let alone Gordon in this situation, let's focus on his actions. He is probably sober right at this moment.  Whatever his reasons for going to rehab, let's hope for his sake that he learned something to keep him that way.

Relating to Gordon the human being, this is true and important. From the standpoint of the Browns and the NFL, it's probably assumed that checking himself into rehab 90 days ago means he was not sober 91 days ago.

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1 minute ago, habsfan said:

 

Relating to Gordon the human being, this is true and important. From the standpoint of the Browns and the NFL, it's probably assumed that checking himself into rehab 90 days ago means he was not sober 91 days ago.

Yes I think both of these things are true at the same time.

 

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Just now, habsfan said:

 

Relating to Gordon the human being, this is true and important. From the standpoint of the Browns and the NFL, it's probably assumed that checking himself into rehab 90 days ago means he was not sober 91 days ago.

Not for sure. Maybe he was sober for 1 day and felt like getting help, maybe he was sober for 6 weeks and thought he was going to fall off the wagon, so he checked in. 

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9 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

Been a lot of talk that he gets cut by the Browns if reinstated.  He'll get claimed by the Pats, turn into Moss 2.0, rest is history.

I've only seen that talk here at FBG. 

But it would be awesome. 

 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

While I agree philosophically, the concern is "did he relapse" and if so how badly. 

So yes - good on Gordon for getting his life in order and yay sobriety. I'm rooting for that as well. 

But another trip to rehab might not be all sunshine & butterflies, and it does matter as it could impact his chances at reinstatement if the commish has another incident to include in his evaluation. 

I think it is highly likely he relapsed. And probably in the eyes of the NFL there is no mild relapse. If that means he's screwed, we can probably assume he's screwed. And by screwed I mean NFL likely will want him to be sober for a while not in rehab before reinstating him.

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1 minute ago, msudaisy26 said:

Not for sure. Maybe he was sober for 1 day and felt like getting help, maybe he was sober for 6 weeks and thought he was going to fall off the wagon, so he checked in. 

Well that could be true too - no one on this forum knows 

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3 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

I think it is highly likely he relapsed. And probably in the eyes of the NFL there is no mild relapse. If that means he's screwed, we can probably assume he's screwed. And by screwed I mean NFL likely will want him to be sober for a while not in rehab before reinstating him.

That's my concern. 

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Alrighty Gordon peeps, it's 12 PM EST.  Presumably check out time is 11 AM otherwise you'll be charged another day.  Who is standing outside the rehab facility to give us the Twitter report that the fantasy savior has emerged?

24 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

Been a lot of talk that he gets cut by the Browns if reinstated.  He'll get claimed by the Pats, turn into Moss 2.0, rest is history.

Didn't work out so well for Michael Floyd, although his was only a DUI,

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8 minutes ago, ATB said:

Why does everyone assume that Gordon went to rehab on his own volition and not in cooperation with the NFL's wishes? 

https://twitter.com/jasoncole62/status/901178252450037760

I don't.

it's all speculation at this point. Consider Gordon a lottery ticket. When I play the lottery I don't expect to win...

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4 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

Alrighty Gordon peeps, it's 12 PM EST.  Presumably check out time is 11 AM otherwise you'll be charged another day.  Who is standing outside the rehab facility to give us the Twitter report that the fantasy savior has emerged?

Didn't work out so well for Michael Floyd, although his was only a DUI,

Haha rehabs don't work like hotels.  They could discharge him really any time today

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1 minute ago, Gandalf said:

I don't.

it's all speculation at this point. Consider Gordon a lottery ticket. When I play the lottery I don't expect to win...

I think I'll place a little more trust in a sports journalist with NFL sources than us dirt bags flinging #### at a wall to see whose is stickier. 

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9 minutes ago, ATB said:

Why does everyone assume that Gordon went to rehab on his own volition and not in cooperation with the NFL's wishes? 

https://twitter.com/jasoncole62/status/901178252450037760

We don't. This was mentioned here some pages back, but there was no source. And around the same time this was mentioned, the NFL stated in response that they weren't working on anything Gordon-related. 

So for one, it might not be true. For another, if true, it might be for cause (e.g. a relapse) 

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16 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

I think it is highly likely he relapsed. And probably in the eyes of the NFL there is no mild relapse. If that means he's screwed, we can probably assume he's screwed. And by screwed I mean NFL likely will want him to be sober for a while not in rehab before reinstating him.

This is what I think too. It isn't Gordon's first trip to the rodeo. It isn't an isolated misstep. As someone said earlier, the NFL proposition is, "If you can manage your conduct in the following ways, you can have millions of dollars". Gordon has demonstrated an inability and/or unwillingness to abide. The NFL has no obligation to validate his parking an hour, day week or month after finishing rehab. 

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7 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

Alrighty Gordon peeps, it's 12 PM EST.  Presumably check out time is 11 AM otherwise you'll be charged another day.  Who is standing outside the rehab facility to give us the Twitter report that the fantasy savior has emerged?

He'll of course have to settle up his account...long distance calls, pay per view porn, and uh....mini bar expenses? :unsure:

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

We don't. This was mentioned here some pages back, but there was no source. And around the same time this was mentioned, the NFL stated in response that they weren't working on anything Gordon-related. 

So for one, it might not be true. For another, if true, it might be for cause (e.g. a relapse) 

I see no reason to believe it's not true. Sources are not typically revealed. And the NFL's statement was to be expected. What did you think they'd say, "Yes we're in constant contact with Gordon's agent and we're all really looking forward to his imminent return"?

They basically said his paperwork had not crossed their desk because... shocker!... the date for him to file for reinstatement had not yet passed. 

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Just now, ATB said:

I see no reason to believe it's not true. Sources are not typically revealed. And the NFL's statement was to be expected. What did you think they'd say, "Yes we're in constant contact with Gordon's agent and we're all really looking forward to his imminent return"?

They basically said his paperwork had not crossed their desk because... shocker!... the date for him to file for reinstatement had not yet passed. 

Considering last year they were entirely transparent during Gordon's suspension, I see no reason why they'd suddenly decide to be mysterious about it this year.

last season there were weekly updates from Gordon's agent, the Browns & several updates from the NFL.

this season it's :crickets: 

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4 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Considering last year they were entirely transparent during Gordon's suspension, I see no reason why they'd suddenly decide to be mysterious about it this year.

last season there were weekly updates from Gordon's agent, the Browns & several updates from the NFL.

this season it's :crickets: 

Were they transparent before he filed for reinstatement? You've said this numerous times in this thread and have yet to give any reasoning as to why you think the NFL would comment on a case that is not even under active consideration because the dude is still suspended. He can't be reinstated so what purpose would it serve to comment on ANY case that is not active?

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13 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Haha rehabs don't work like hotels.  They could discharge him really any time today

I think we all understand that.

10 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

He'll of course have to settle up his account...long distance calls, pay per view porn, and uh....mini bar expenses? :unsure:

Now here's a guy that understands sarcasm.

I bet JG is going to be expecting a crowd of reporters waiting for him as he triumphantly walks out of rehab.  Instead, we're going to get some 20 year old intern for some obscure website nobody has ever heard of.  He'll twitter it out to the universe.  And the JG fandom will then have to go change their underwear.  I'm going to get my clean pair ready.

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7 hours ago, ATB said:

Were they transparent before he filed for reinstatement? You've said this numerous times in this thread and have yet to give any reasoning as to why you think the NFL would comment on a case that is not even under active consideration because the dude is still suspended. He can't be reinstated so what purpose would it serve to comment on ANY case that is not active?

This isn't that hard. People are claiming that "sources say" the NFL made some sort of deal with Gordon, where if he checked into rehab, he'd then be reinstated.

if such a deal were in place, that would mean they were actively involved with his process, regardless that he's not yet applied for reinstatement. 

So I would absolutely expect the NFL to say "we're working with Gordon, his agent, and the Browns by offering him this opportunity to get back into the league."

 But they haven't - in fact, they went out of their way to specifically state that they have nothing to do with Josh Gordon right now. 

To me, those things are incongruous. 

Last season they absolutely commented before his suspension was up, and he never had to apply for reinstatement because last year he wasn't suspended indefinitely. He had a 4-game suspension and when it ended he was to be reinstated. Except he missed a test and landed in rehab, and was then suspended indefinitely.

pretty straightforward. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

This isn't that hard. People are claiming that "sources say" the NFL made some sort of deal with Gordon, where if he checked into rehab, he'd then be reinstated.

if such a deal were in place, that would mean they were actively involved with his process, regardless that he's not yet applied for reinstatement. 

So I would absolutely expect the NFL to say "we're working with Gordon, his agent, and the Browns by offering him this opportunity to get back into the league."

 But they haven't - in fact, they went out of their way to specifically state that they have nothing to do with Josh Gordon right now. 

To me, those things are incongruous. 

Last season they absolutely commented before his suspension was up, and he never had to apply for reinstatement because last year he wasn't suspended indefinitely. He had a 6-game suspension and when it ended he was to be reinstated. Except he missed a test and landed in rehab, and was then suspended indefinitely.

pretty straightforward. 

Not straightforward at all. You're making logic leaps that you apparently don't even see. 

No one has said they "make some sort of deal with Gordon."  Sources (who are often anonymous, gasp) have stated that Gordon is cooperating with the NFL (likely not Goodell directly). This means he's been lead to believe that a successful 3-month stint in lockdown rehab will give him the best shot at reinstatement this year. 

For that to be true, you think the NFL would have to openly state that this happened?

Why? Because they talked about the process last year?

Do things not ever change in your world? People don't lose faith in others? You think the process of a 6-month suspension that leads to near-certain reinstatement is exactly the same as an indefinite suspension that has no guarantee of ever being lifted?

Keep on keepin' on, brother. Your pessimism will get you far...

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19 minutes ago, ATB said:

Not straightforward at all. You're making logic leaps that you apparently don't even see. 

No one has said they "make some sort of deal with Gordon."  Sources (who are often anonymous, gasp) have stated that Gordon is cooperating with the NFL (likely not Goodell directly). This means he's been lead to believe that a successful 3-month stint in lockdown rehab will give him the best shot at reinstatement this year. 

For that to be true, you think the NFL would have to openly state that this happened?

Why? Because they talked about the process last year?

Do things not ever change in your world? People don't lose faith in others? You think the process of a 6-month suspension that leads to near-certain reinstatement is exactly the same as an indefinite suspension that has no guarantee of ever being lifted?

Keep on keepin' on, brother. Your pessimism will get you far...

lol - I picked up Gordon in both of my leagues. I want nothing more than something concrete that tells me Gordon is worth a roster spot. 

I would LOVE for him to be reinstated. 

it's not pessimism, it's realism. 

Optomism is being delusional about vague reports that aren't substantiated and don't hold up to the logic test.

Simple if/then logic. 

IF the NFL made a deal with Gordon THEN they likely would have commented about "working with him".

instead, they distanced themselves and stated that Gordon's situation "hadn't made it to Roger (Goodell's) desk." 

That's not a leap of logic, that's reality. ;) 

The only one here making leaps of logic is you - some pretty huge assumptions about a mystery deal with the NFL and what gives Gordon the best shot at reinstatement - it's all speculative and has none basis in reality because no one has reported it. 

I hope I'm wrong. I hope you're right. I hope rehab is the magic ticket to reinstatement for Gordon. 

ETA - it wasn't a 6-month suspension in 2016, it was 4 games. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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16 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

IF the NFL made a deal with Gordon THEN they likely would have commented about "working with him".

This is the key of the disagreement, here. What has you thinking they have to comment on something like this? Just because they did last time? Ever heard of "fool me once"? I'm of the opinion that Gordon would not have gone to rehab without some indication that it would heavily influence the NFL/Goodell to reinstate him. 

Others think he just relapsed. Whatever. Maybe. 

Even if it's as little as his mentor Tim Montgomery having a connection inside the league (which he no doubt does) who told him to put his client in rehab, that still fits the bill of "Gordon cooperating with NFL by going to rehab."

I mean, let's just look at the facts:

Dude went to rehab right when his reinstatement was approaching. 

His worst infractions have been weed and beer. 

He's done a longer stint in rehab than most who are punished for drug-related infractions. 

His mentor, Tim Montgomery, vouches for the kid. 

That's pretty much all we know right now. You say the NFL wants nothing to do with him. I say they likely suggested rehab. 

I guess we'll find out when he's reinstated :yes:

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16 minutes ago, ATB said:

This is the key of the disagreement, here. What has you thinking they have to comment on something like this? Just because they did last time? Ever heard of "fool me once"? I'm of the opinion that Gordon would not have gone to rehab without some indication that it would heavily influence the NFL/Goodell to reinstate him. 

He went to rehab last year right when it was reported that he missed a drug test & wouldn't be reinstated after his 4-game suspension. 

Many at the time speculated that it was a "last ditch effort" to salvage the situation. It didn't, and he was suspended indefinitely.

 

Quote

Others think he just relapsed. Whatever. Maybe. 

That's not a "whatever, maybe" - it's an important consideration. 

The reasons why he was in rehab again could have a massive influence on whether or not his application for reinstatement is seriously considered. It's an important detail. 

Quote

Even if it's as little as his mentor Tim Montgomery having a connection inside the league (which he no doubt does) who told him to put his client in rehab, that still fits the bill of "Gordon cooperating with NFL by going to rehab."

This is pure speculation. Granted, i hope it's true. 

Quote

I mean, let's just look at the facts:

Dude went to rehab right when his reinstatement was approaching.

Like he did when he missed his last drug test before 2016 reinstatement. 

Quote

His worst infractions have been weed and beer. 

No, his worst infraction was that he is a repeat offender. 

I agree weed & beer aren't that big a deal compared to other things (domestic violence, hard drugs, etc)

but make no mistake: his worst infraction in the eyes of the NFL was violating the terms of the last agreement he made with the NFL and being a repeat offender. 

You are minimizing it by saying "it was just ____" 

the dude has a problem - any amount of anything contributes to that problem. 

Quote

He's done a longer stint in rehab than most who are punished for drug-related infractions. 

Again - why? Did he do it voluntarily? Did he relapse? Did he fail another test? 

We don't know, and it likely matters here.  

Quote

His mentor, Tim Montgomery, vouches for the kid. 

That's pretty much all we know right now. You say the NFL wants nothing to do with him. I say they likely suggested rehab. 

I guess we'll find out when he's reinstated :yes:

I guess we will. For now we know less than you assert though. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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Per NFL radio, Josh Gordon's manger has OFFICIALLY submitted the paper work for his reinstatement, now the review process will take place.

— Justin Rutski (@rutski88) September 21, 2017

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1 minute ago, steelwind said:

Per NFL radio, Josh Gordon's manger has OFFICIALLY submitted the paper work for his reinstatement, now the review process will take place.

— Justin Rutski (@rutski88) September 21, 2017

OMG - real news! :pickle:

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

OMG - real news! :pickle:

Wow...where's that guy looking for Faust's post? He's gonna miss the boat because stealwind jumped the sharkpool.

Last one to pick Josh up is a rotten egg!

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Gordon has been in trouble for weed/booze consistently since 2010 when he was still in college. He's reportedly checking out today from a 90 day rehab stint. Gooddell would have to be a complete and total idiot to reinstate him quickly. If he reinstates him at all, I suspect its going to be a while. It behooves him to make JG demonstrate he's really serious about coming back and has his issues under control. That is going to take some time.

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1 minute ago, whiskey7 said:

Gordon has been in trouble for weed/booze consistently since 2010 when he was still in college. He's reportedly checking out today from a 90 day rehab stint. Gooddell would have to be a complete and total idiot to reinstate him quickly. If he reinstates him at all, I suspect its going to be a while. It behooves him to make JG demonstrate he's really serious about coming back and has his issues under control. That is going to take some time.

Oh the irony of whiskey7 talking about rehab...

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1 minute ago, Scooby1974 said:

Oh the irony of whiskey7 talking about rehab...

Just a handle ;)

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5 minutes ago, whiskey7 said:

Gordon has been in trouble for weed/booze consistently since 2010 when he was still in college. He's reportedly checking out today from a 90 day rehab stint. Gooddell would have to be a complete and total idiot to reinstate him quickly. If he reinstates him at all, I suspect its going to be a while. It behooves him to make JG demonstrate he's really serious about coming back and has his issues under control. That is going to take some time.

I do agree. 

But at the same time, I couldn't help picking him up.

kinda like knowing that when I buy a lottery ticket, I have a 1 in a zillion chance at winning. 

But I buy them anyway. 

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1 minute ago, whiskey7 said:

Just a handle ;)

A handle of whiskey? Sign me up! 

:lol: 

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15 minutes ago, whiskey7 said:

Gordon has been in trouble for weed/booze consistently since 2010 when he was still in college. He's reportedly checking out today from a 90 day rehab stint. Gooddell would have to be a complete and total idiot to reinstate him quickly. If he reinstates him at all, I suspect its going to be a while. It behooves him to make JG demonstrate he's really serious about coming back and has his issues under control. That is going to take some time.

Goodell already rejected his previous reinstatement in May. The question is, was that the retroactive date when Goodell wanted to see if JG would stay clean? If so, that could be a reason for the 90 day rehab.   

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21 minutes ago, whiskey7 said:

Gordon has been in trouble for weed/booze consistently since 2010 when he was still in college. He's reportedly checking out today from a 90 day rehab stint. Gooddell would have to be a complete and total idiot to reinstate him quickly. If he reinstates him at all, I suspect its going to be a while. It behooves him to make JG demonstrate he's really serious about coming back and has his issues under control. That is going to take some time.

I hope you are wrong as I've added him to most of my teams but I tend to think you are not wrong at all.

I've had this thought since reading some recent comments from MKC over past few days. In particular it was MKC who got me most hyped that he might return in September or soon after but I've noticed her tone get a little more pessimistic lately. A few days ago in a chat she said something pretty similar to what you are saying, that she believes it likely they would want to see a period of post rehab sobriety before they would consider reinstating him.

My belief is the best possible short term outcome for Gordon a conditional reinstatement that will allow him to practice and be around the team but not count towards active roster or play(I assume this can be done, but maybe I'm wrong).  It's not like he's walking out of 90 days in rehab game ready anyway.

In other words I think the best outcome here is for him to get a chance to get into football shape and get reacclimated with the team/playbook while he demonstrates this "period of sobriety" and best case is he's is activated and a useable fantasy asset much later in the season,  not anytime before November or anything.

 

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52 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

He went to rehab last year right when it was reported that he missed a drug test & wouldn't be reinstated after his 4-game suspension. 

Many at the time speculated that it was a "last ditch effort" to salvage the situation. It didn't, and he was suspended indefinitely.

The reasons why he was in rehab again could have a massive influence on whether or not his application for reinstatement is seriously considered. It's an important detail. 

Like he did when he missed his last drug test before 2016 reinstatement. 

I think you're conflating two situations that are a year removed from one another. Granted, it's the same dude so I understand it but still... you're forgetting that JG went to rehab last time –– not to aide his reinstatement –– rather, he attempted to circumvent a surprise drug test, knowing he would fail it. Goodell sniffed that out immediately, of course, and he was suspended anyway. 

There is no scenario in which this stint in rehab was an attempt to avoid a drug test. 

There is no other reason than to aide his chances at reinstatement, regardless of whether it was done in cooperation with the NFL or not. 

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10 minutes ago, Bernie51 said:

Goodell already rejected his previous reinstatement in May. The question is, was that the retroactive date when Goodell wanted to see if JG would stay clean? If so, that could be a reason for the 90 day rehab.   

Gotta think (at this point) proving it to Goddell is going to take a year or more. No failed tests. No missed tests. No trips to inpatient rehab. Just Gordon demonstrating he can control his demons every day over time. Gordon has squandered any benefit of the doubt and is going to have to really earn it, IMO. 

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Just now, JAMES! said:

Only $4000 this week on Draftkings!

:lol: 

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1 hour ago, ATB said:

This is the key of the disagreement, here. What has you thinking they have to comment on something like this? Just because they did last time? Ever heard of "fool me once"? I'm of the opinion that Gordon would not have gone to rehab without some indication that it would heavily influence the NFL/Goodell to reinstate him. 

Others think he just relapsed. Whatever. Maybe. 

Even if it's as little as his mentor Tim Montgomery having a connection inside the league (which he no doubt does) who told him to put his client in rehab, that still fits the bill of "Gordon cooperating with NFL by going to rehab."

I mean, let's just look at the facts:

Dude went to rehab right when his reinstatement was approaching. 

His worst infractions have been weed and beer. 

He's done a longer stint in rehab than most who are punished for drug-related infractions. 

His mentor, Tim Montgomery, vouches for the kid. 

That's pretty much all we know right now. You say the NFL wants nothing to do with him. I say they likely suggested rehab. 

I guess we'll find out when he's reinstated :yes:

It's routine legal advice for anyone charged with a DUI to start a rehab program so that when it goes to court they look like they're taking a pro-active approach and maybe look a little better in the eyes of the judge.  Every attorney who practices defending DUIs knows it and does it.  The fact that a person charged with a DUI "voluntarily" goes to rehab doesn't mean that it's likely that the judge suggested it. You're correct that he probably wouldn't have gone to rehab if he didn't think it would influence Goodell (unless he finally actually listened to those people who care about him more as a person than as a football player).  However, the leap to "the league likely suggested it" doesn't follow from that premise.

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5 minutes ago, Bernie51 said:

Here we go!!

 

Jamelle Hill‏ @JamelleHillEspn

JUST IN: Josh Gordon has officially, again, submitted reinstatement papers to play in the NFL, league sources tell ESPN. Tune in #thesix tn!

11:32 AM - 21 Sep 2017

 

 

:sleep:

 

Until we see the NFL's response, this is kind of a nothingburger. We knew he'd apply today. :yawn: 

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

:sleep:

 

Until we see the NFL's response, this is kind of a nothingburger. We knew he'd apply today. :yawn: 

It was a fake twitter account. Tried to delete the post, but forum wouldn't let me. 

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If Gordon gets reinstated, how will they possibly fit his $1 million salary under the salary cap? The Browns only have $63 million in cap space.

I do find it interesting that the Browns have dead money cap hits on 32 total players. Off the top, I don't know if that is a high number, but it sounds on the high side. All those players don't add up to all that much ($36 million) . . . with Osweiler accounting for over $15 million of it.

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

:sleep:

 

Until we see the NFL's response, this is kind of a nothingburger. We knew he'd apply today. :yawn: 

Plus her name is Jemele Hill.  Obviously not a real account...

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28 minutes ago, ATB said:

I think you're conflating two situations that are a year removed from one another. Granted, it's the same dude so I understand it but still... you're forgetting that JG went to rehab last time –– not to aide his reinstatement –– rather, he attempted to circumvent a surprise drug test, knowing he would fail it. Goodell sniffed that out immediately, of course, and he was suspended anyway. 

All due respect, but you're being a bit silly here.  I am indeed conflating two events, but they are unarguably part of the same situation. The "Josh Gordon" situation. 

How are these two situations? Dude got suspended. He got suspended again. He went to rehab. He went to rehab again. 

Same situation. Same player. Same suspension. 

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Yeesh, I might just drop him again. :doh: 

I'm not feeling like this is gonna go anywhere. Now I've gotta hold onto this dead weight until something happens? 

If there's no news by next week he's off my teams. 

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