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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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13 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

Yes... TWICE as many as the 2nd place guy!

as in, the ONLY player to ever do it.

aka: Historical.

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4 hours ago, WheelsUp said:

...they dont make medicine to shake a drinking habit.

Put a line of ivory in front of someone addicted to coke, put a needle in front of someone addicted to shooting up, put a nice smooth bourbon in front of an alcoholic... What pill do they make to fix that disease?

Not disputing at all what you have to say about the role of will power in beating addiction, but actually, they do make medicine for all that:

Alcohol: Disulfiram, Acamprosate

Cocaine: Gubapentin, Modafinil, Topiramate, Vigabatrin, Baclofen

Heroin: Methadone, Buprenorphine, Naloxone

Definitely not cures in and of themselves, but they have been proven to help addicts shake or counteract cravings, wean from the addictive substances, etc.

I think there's also more than just will power - it's about removing triggers (which can be people as well as emotional/physical/etc. cues) and also being in a place to want to help yourself get better as well.

My fear is that I am not sure Gordon has been in a situation yet where he truly wants to leave that behind. If millions of dollars and a pretty promising NFL career isn't going to motivate you, not sure what else there needs to be outside of truly hitting rock bottom with no other options left.

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9 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

C'mon guys, the bait is like what, 3 or 4 years old now? How are people still getting hooked?

Well mostly because he hasn't actually been allowed to play for most of that time. And now he is.

Math!!!

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I snatched up Gordon they day he was reinstated, but now rethinking if someone like Chris Ivory, Chark West, or James Conner would be a better stash? 

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33 minutes ago, Charlie Harper said:

I snatched up Gordon they day he was reinstated, but now rethinking if someone like Chris Ivory, Chark West, or James Conner would be a better stash? 

No one matches Gordon’s upside

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12 hours ago, in2win said:

That's why you pick him up and hold, it doesn't hurt to wait and see what he does.  I'm guessing your in an 8 team league and talented players like Gordon are all over your WW

But but but it might hurt your opponent lol

If an owner is going to play this guy in the playoffs if he does nothing of significance in weeks 13 and 14, then that owner was likely going to do something stupid anyways at WR or somewhere else. He's not a must start at all. A good owner will know what is best to do and live with the results, anyone can flake out any given week.

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15 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

as in, the ONLY player to ever do it.

aka: Historical.

It is hysterical.

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19 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

C'mon guys, the bait is like what, 3 or 4 years old now? How are people still getting hooked?

Gordon is a freak. Just clicked off a 4.3 40, at his size it's downright unfair. 

I don't know about anybody else, but I play fantasy to win the cash, I don't care how I get there. If Gordon makes an impact in those last few weeks, he can push you over the top if you have him. 

That's how I got hooked. 

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On 11/9/2017 at 2:10 PM, Warhogs said:

87-1646-9 are historic numbers? 

That is a fine season, but historic?

1646 yards is 13th on the all time list which is impressive!

87 catches isn't in the top 200.

9 td isn't in the top 200 either.

I would say unquestionably 2013 was a very good season.

14 games son

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33 minutes ago, mnmplayer said:

14 games son

And high AF the whole time. Impresssive. 

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Just now, Football Jones said:

You mean Gordon was timed this week?

Unless I'm missing the joke.... Yes. Yesterday. 

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6 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

Unless I'm missing the joke.... Yes. Yesterday. 

I had heard about a 4.35 during a recent training session, but didn't know he was timed this week.

 

Edited by Football Jones

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21 hours ago, Ojaays said:

Gordon is a freak. Just clicked off a 4.3 40, at his size it's downright unfair. 

I don't know about anybody else, but I play fantasy to win the cash, I don't care how I get there. If Gordon makes an impact in those last few weeks, he can push you over the top if you have him. 

That's how I got hooked. 

He ran a 4.52 on his Pro day. But yeah, Mary Kay Cabot says he ran a 4.3

 :banned:

 

Ive been a football fan since 1967 & I’ve never, ever heard of a team timing a guy’s 40 other than draft evaluation. Is this something common that never gets talked about?

Do guys usually shave 0.22 off their time five years after they leave college?

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7 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

He ran a 4.52 on his Pro day. But yeah, Mary Kay Cabot says he ran a 4.3

 :banned:

 

Ive been a football fan since 1967 & I’ve never, ever heard of a team timing a guy’s 40 other than draft evaluation. Is this something common that never gets talked about?

Do guys usually shave 0.22 off their time five years after they leave college?

I was reading somewhere and I believe it was the Panthers that hold events such as the 40 yard dash every year.  It sounded like a mini combine.  I am not sure how common it is though

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22 hours ago, Ojaays said:

Gordon is a freak. Just clicked off a 4.3 40, at his size it's downright unfair. 

I don't know about anybody else, but I play fantasy to win the cash, I don't care how I get there. If Gordon makes an impact in those last few weeks, he can push you over the top if you have him. 

That's how I got hooked. 

Gordon cost me cash when he came back a few years ago and I started him every game waiting for his old stats. I'm being more conservative this time. 

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1 hour ago, Sebowski said:

Gordon cost me cash when he came back a few years ago and I started him every game waiting for his old stats. I'm being more conservative this time. 

Same here, I'm gonna hold off from starting him til Week 13.

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4 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

Unless I'm missing the joke.... Yes. Yesterday. 

I do not believe this is accurate information.

 

4 hours ago, Football Jones said:

I had heard about a 4.35 during a recent training session, but didn't know he was timed this week.

 

I believe you to be accurate and the team did not test him, ran the alleged 4.3 forty  in Florida at the training facility.

 

2 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Ive been a football fan since 1967 & I’ve never, ever heard of a team timing a guy’s 40 other than draft evaluation. Is this something common that never gets talked about?

Do guys usually shave 0.22 off their time five years after they leave college?

I don't think so and did not happen in this instance either, see previous comment

I would say with some of the improved training methods that it's possible to shave a little time off, and maybe more than a little time if you are on a fast track, timer error, etc.  But on the flip side I remember a few years ago the NFL held a veterans combine and most of those players ran pitifully slower then at their college combine. Like I recall Felix Jones went from a sub 4.5 guy to around 4.8.

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

I would say with some of the improved training methods that it's possible to shave a little time off, and maybe more than a little time if you are on a fast track, timer error, etc.  But on the flip side I remember a few years ago the NFL held a veterans combine and most of those players ran pitifully slower then at their college combine. Like I recall Felix Jones went from a sub 4.5 guy to around 4.8.

That veteran's combine was for street FAs who didn't have a team. There was a preexisting bias for players who were at the bottom of the NFL talent barrel (whether due to age, injury, or poor work ethic). I think it's misleading to use the "not good enough for the NFL anymore" players to say what might be happening with a player like Gordon.

He readily admits that he used some substance almost every day in the NFL, and that probably included college and combine prep time. I'm pretty sure a re-dedicated clean (assumption) 26 yo elite-among-the-elite athlete can perform as well or better than he did while partying until 4 am and huffing paint before combine training.

 

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5 minutes ago, xrayveggin said:

That veteran's combine was for street FAs who didn't have a team. There was a preexisting bias for players who were at the bottom of the NFL talent barrel (whether due to age, injury, or poor work ethic). I think it's misleading to use the "not good enough for the NFL anymore" players to say what might be happening with a player like Gordon.

He readily admits that he used some substance almost every day in the NFL, and that probably included college and combine prep time. I'm pretty sure a re-dedicated clean (assumption) 26 yo elite-among-the-elite athlete can perform as well or better than he did while partying until 4 am and huffing paint before combine training.

 

I'm both fully aware of what the veteran combine was and simply relayed how a players tend to get slower.  That is not misleading, that is relaying factual information.

Stating that those players out of a job was due to injury, age or poor work ethic meanwhile is as misleading and not very factual at all.

 

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

I'm both fully aware of what the veteran combine was and simply relayed how a players tend to get slower.  That is not misleading, that is relaying factual information.

Stating that those players out of a job was due to injury, age or poor work ethic meanwhile is as misleading and not very factual at all.

 

Felix Jones hadn't played in 2014 and the vet combine was in 2015; Jones never played another down in the NFL because he fell off the talent cliff. Here is a list of participants, so you are right in a way, that in addition to the few NFL talents who dropped off a cliff due to age, injury, or lack of work ethic, it's also includes quite a few never-had-the-talent-to-succeed-in-the-NFL players.

That said, this is a Josh Gordon thread, and it seems reasonable that a clean 26 year old Gordon might be in better shape than the 20 year old Gordon who was likely high during his training sessions and maybe even the combine. Do you disagree with that premise?

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

I'm both fully aware of what the veteran combine was and simply relayed how a players tend to get slower.  That is not misleading, that is relaying factual information.

Stating that those players out of a job was due to injury, age or poor work ethic meanwhile is as misleading and not very factual at all.

 

Son, this kid is Fast.Stop your bickering.

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Aren't most athletes, outside of gymnasts, physically superior at 26 than 21?

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8 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

He ran a 4.52 on his Pro day. But yeah, Mary Kay Cabot says he ran a 4.3

 :banned:

 

Ive been a football fan since 1967 & I’ve never, ever heard of a team timing a guy’s 40 other than draft evaluation. Is this something common that never gets talked about?

Do guys usually shave 0.22 off their time five years after they leave college?

Gotta start building hype in case the browns just cut him.

 

Non-combine 40s are about as accurate as most guys penis measurements.

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Picked him up dropping Emmanuel Sanders in a standard scoring league.

I wasn't going to start sanders so figured why not.

Edited by rascal

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Regardless of what Gordon ran, he plays very fast.

Remember, the 40-yard dash is essentially a track event. Bigger guys with outstanding top end speed like Gordon play faster than their 40 would indicate (whatever it is).

Edited by Football Jones

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Picked him up in a contract keeper league the day he was reinstated. I had to drop David Njkou to get him and I'm high on Njkou. No pun intended.

Look sometimes you have to push your chips in the middle and hope you get some luck on the river. If he pans out I have a freak#1 WR. I'll take my chances that I can replace a Njkou.

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3 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

Non-combine 40s are about as accurate as most guys penis measurements.

You mean you’re not supposed to measure from the taint? :confused:

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Man...the Gordon fan here is cracking out all his aliases. Careful of listening to anything that fan says in regards to Gordon, there has never been such a blind homer of a player on this board. Now, people are allowed to be homers, but I am sure most know that this type is a little different. If a guy so obsessed with Gordon cant bring himself to say a bad thing about a guy who has had this many mistakes...how can you trust anything he says, that and he has multiple alias to jump on the Gordon train. Just want those digesting info to fully understand. Remember how many times this guy said he wouldnt be suspended, and was? What also bothers me, is how can a guy be so obsessed with a player after one year that was 4 years ago? This type of homerism should be made an example of, not condoned as new people to the thread might not understand his clearly extreme bias lean.

Scooping and starting a guy who has been out of the league as long as he has and starting him for fantasy playoffs is careless at the very least and preposterous at most. Regardless of his results, to insert him in the lineup is screaming of fantasy inexperience.

Edited by WheelsUp
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He is eligible to play week 13, right?  Thats the last week of the regular season for me.  I'm on pace for a week 14 bye so ill have two weeks to see if he is even a shell of himself.  If he steps into some high percentage of himself, then ive added a top wr for free right at the most important time of the season.  If not, no biggie.

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1 hour ago, WheelsUp said:

Man...the Gordon fan here is cracking out all his aliases. Careful of listening to anything that fan says in regards to Gordon, there has never been such a blind homer of a player on this board. Now, people are allowed to be homers, but I am sure most know that this type is a little different. If a guy so obsessed with Gordon cant bring himself to say a bad thing about a guy who has had this many mistakes...how can you trust anything he says, that and he has multiple alias to jump on the Gordon train. Just want those digesting info to fully understand. Remember how many times this guy said he wouldnt be suspended, and was? What also bothers me, is how can a guy be so obsessed with a player after one year that was 4 years ago? This type of homerism should be made an example of, not condoned as new people to the thread might not understand his clearly extreme bias lean.

Scooping and starting a guy who has been out of the league as long as he has and starting him for fantasy playoffs is careless at the very least and preposterous at most. Regardless of his results, to insert him in the lineup is screaming of fantasy inexperience.

Who are the aliases in your opinion?

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1 hour ago, WheelsUp said:

Man...the Gordon fan here is cracking out all his aliases. Careful of listening to anything that fan says in regards to Gordon, there has never been such a blind homer of a player on this board. Now, people are allowed to be homers, but I am sure most know that this type is a little different. If a guy so obsessed with Gordon cant bring himself to say a bad thing about a guy who has had this many mistakes...how can you trust anything he says, that and he has multiple alias to jump on the Gordon train. Just want those digesting info to fully understand. Remember how many times this guy said he wouldnt be suspended, and was? What also bothers me, is how can a guy be so obsessed with a player after one year that was 4 years ago? This type of homerism should be made an example of, not condoned as new people to the thread might not understand his clearly extreme bias lean.

Scooping and starting a guy who has been out of the league as long as he has and starting him for fantasy playoffs is careless at the very least and preposterous at most. Regardless of his results, to insert him in the lineup is screaming of fantasy inexperience.

I'm thinking more of the upside for next season as a potential #1 WR at the ceiling of the situation. My hope is Gordon flashes and Cleveland trades him in the offseason to a good situation. So many questions maybe the shark move is to sell when he flashes(if he does.). Not sure what Cleveland can get for him even if the best case scenario happens for Gordon. You also have to worry that Gordon stays clean between the offseason and next season.

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1 hour ago, unckeyherb said:

He is eligible to play week 13, right?  Thats the last week of the regular season for me.  I'm on pace for a week 14 bye so ill have two weeks to see if he is even a shell of himself.  If he steps into some high percentage of himself, then ive added a top wr for free right at the most important time of the season.  If not, no biggie.

Care to elaborate?  I cant imagine like the best real World scenario. However, lets say his first game he more or less suits up.. Maybe sees field on one, maybe two designated plays, not counting garbage Times (Browns 2nd half?) What about second game, He doesn't start but actually plays some, and manage to make an amazing "play". So after the game Coach says "JG will be more involved in upcoming games"...  You starting him that 3rd week?

Edited by Dismattle

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6 minutes ago, Dismattle said:

Care to elaborate?  I cant imagine like the best real World scenario. However, lets say his first game he more or less suits up.. Maybe sees field on one, maybe two designated plays, not counting garbage Times (Browns 2nd half?) What about second game, He doesn't start but actually plays some, and manage to make an amazing "play". So after the game Coach says "JG will be more involved in upcoming games"...  You starting him that 3rd week?

No.  

Like I said I'm using weeks 13 and 14 to gauge it.  If he plays a few snaps and doesn't produce, then I won't start him.  If he shows some semblance of his former self, then I'll consider it.  My WR corps consists of starting 2 of Marquis Lee, Amari Cooper and Devante Parker.  Wouldn't be hard for Gordon to supplant a couple of those guys.

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2 hours ago, WheelsUp said:

Man...the Gordon fan here is cracking out all his aliases. Careful of listening to anything that fan says in regards to Gordon, there has never been such a blind homer of a player on this board. Now, people are allowed to be homers, but I am sure most know that this type is a little different. If a guy so obsessed with Gordon cant bring himself to say a bad thing about a guy who has had this many mistakes...how can you trust anything he says, that and he has multiple alias to jump on the Gordon train. Just want those digesting info to fully understand. Remember how many times this guy said he wouldnt be suspended, and was? What also bothers me, is how can a guy be so obsessed with a player after one year that was 4 years ago? This type of homerism should be made an example of, not condoned as new people to the thread might not understand his clearly extreme bias lean.

Scooping and starting a guy who has been out of the league as long as he has and starting him for fantasy playoffs is careless at the very least and preposterous at most. Regardless of his results, to insert him in the lineup is screaming of fantasy inexperience.

Not a single alias. Not one.

Feel free to ask mods to look into that, if you'd like. And if they find even ONE, ban me. Permanently

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I'm actually somewhat aghast/offended by that claim, WheelsUp.

I mean... folks know what they're getting from me, homerism. I'm a Browns fan. and a JG fan. I've never hid this. What I say in this thread is 50% schtick and 50% honest homerism. 

You're getting worked up over some dudes having a laugh on a website for slobs who dont have the ability to play real football, themselves. 

I dunno... I dont get it. Aliases. :lol: What do I need an alias for? 

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