WR Josh Gordon, KC (4 Viewers)

'LarryAllen said:

I like the pick. Browns need playmakers and his size/athleticism alone gives him NFL upside. Maybe they paid too much, but if they really feel he's an NFL caliber starter and wanted him, they might have feared the Redskins would also spend a two. It's not like he's a 29 year old college QB they drafted in the first. That pick of Wheeden still blows my mind.

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'Eminence said:

Our commissioner picked this guy up before any of us seemingly had the chance. Sheisty move?

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'wdcrob said:

'MAC_32 said:

'wdcrob said:

I like Gordon, but think using what's probably going to be an early 2nd on him is crazy. But if the Browns wanted him that's probably what they needed to do. Suspect there were other teams lined up behind them with later 2nds.

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He's the 4th best WR prospect in the 2012 class, so I think we paid fair value.

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Talent-wise he might higher than 4th. But the suspension and year out of football have to be factored in there somewhere IMO. Basically the Browns paid full price for him, as if he had no off-field problems.

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'Faust said:

The hype continues:

@ChrisWesseling #Browns "fully expect" Gordon to help as a rookie. NFL source tells @TonyGrossi he would've been top-10 pick in 2013:

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'lbouchard said:

He'll push Greg Little sooner rather than later

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'Mr.Underhill said:

'Faust said:

The hype continues:

@ChrisWesseling #Browns "fully expect" Gordon to help as a rookie. NFL source tells @TonyGrossi he would've been top-10 pick in 2013:

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That "source" is someone in player personnel in Cleveland responding to the "reach" comments. LOLAfter the Weedon pick, you know they've got to be sensitive about it.

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'Mr.Underhill said:

'wdcrob said:

'MAC_32 said:

'wdcrob said:

I like Gordon, but think using what's probably going to be an early 2nd on him is crazy. But if the Browns wanted him that's probably what they needed to do. Suspect there were other teams lined up behind them with later 2nds.

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He's the 4th best WR prospect in the 2012 class, so I think we paid fair value.

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Talent-wise he might higher than 4th. But the suspension and year out of football have to be factored in there somewhere IMO. Basically the Browns paid full price for him, as if he had no off-field problems.

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Raw physical ability? I don't see top 4. Top 10, yes. Is he really any more physically gifted than Sanu, Jeffery, Randle, Criner or Hill? Those are just the guys that look similar in terms of height and weight and speed (though Hill is faster). I think in his case we are probably making assumptions in his favor to fill in the void from 2011.Can he translate that ability into production by polishing his game? Who the heck knows? He's very raw in some ways, as Waldman notes in his article. Maybe he's the next T.O., maybe he's the next Bowe, maybe he's the next Devin Thomas, maybe he's the next Limas Sweed. There are plenty of average speed, over 6' WR's that flash potential but never climb the depth chart.Raw plus character issues plus good athleticism? He is Greg Little made over, albeit with better hands. There's significant risk associated with these guys.

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'cstu said:

Compared to who he replaced he is.

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'Sabertooth said:

I thought Weeden's consensus Grade was a first rounder.

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'Matt Bitonti said:

'Sabertooth said:

I thought Weeden's consensus Grade was a first rounder.

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if weeden was 5 years younger he'd be a slam dunk 1st rounder. It's possible he would have been there for their 2nd. Just like how if Josh Gordon didn't get kicked out of Baylor maybe he'd be a slam dunk 2nd rounder. Or if Greg Little didn't get suspended from UNC, he'd have gone higher etc. There's broadly accepted real value and there's Browns value and I don't think they are the close. The Browns do reach and they have been reaching. It's ok to reach if the player exceeds expectations (for example Tyson Alualu) but it's a dangerous trend this front office is setting, almost never drafting for value.

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'MAC_32 said:

Their end goal is to acquire 3-4 quality starters in each draft.

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'Matt Bitonti said:

'MAC_32 said:

Their end goal is to acquire 3-4 quality starters in each draft.

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I guess that's where I disagree with the Browns. Quality starters don't win games. Stars win games.

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... No receiver on the Browns’ roster has the elite physical skills Gordon possesses. At 6-3 1/8 and 225 pounds, with long arms and huge hands, exceptional leaping ability and good speed for a big man, Gordon has all the tools of the prototypical No. 1 wideout. Athletically and physically, think Andre Johnson, A.J. Green and Julio Jones.

“When you guys see him, that will be your first clue,” Heckert said.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

I wasn't blown away by his forty, only 4.52 but he did tweak a quad and finished the run which realistically puts him in the 4.3/4.4 range or sub 4.5. The other thing about his forty is he didn't train for months for it ala the Indy combine guys. Josh didn't even make up his mind to enter the supplimental draft until the 29th of June so he did his Pro Day on very little prep time which makes his forty even more impressive. Also when you look at the tape, he's clearly faster than 4.52, he's not just fast he has another gear and pulls away from people.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

Schefter said Gordon possed 'rare' physical skills.

Tony Grossi isn't one for hyperboyle and he says Gordon has physical skills that are similiar to, Andre Johnson, AJ Green, and Julio Jones.

My link

... No receiver on the Browns’ roster has the elite physical skills Gordon possesses. At 6-3 1/8 and 225 pounds, with long arms and huge hands, exceptional leaping ability and good speed for a big man, Gordon has all the tools of the prototypical No. 1 wideout. Athletically and physically, think Andre Johnson, A.J. Green and Julio Jones.

“When you guys see him, that will be your first clue,” Heckert said.

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Their might be something more here than what I originally thought.The thing that I did not realize is that Gordon is only 20 years old meaning the tape on him is from when he was only 18.

I wasn't blown away by his forty, only 4.52 but he did tweak a quad and finished the run which realistically puts him in the 4.3/4.4 range or sub 4.5. The other thing about his forty is he didn't train for months for it ala the Indy combine guys. Josh didn't even make up his mind to enter the supplimental draft until the 29th of June so he did his Pro Day on very little prep time which makes his forty even more impressive. Also when you look at the tape, he's clearly faster than 4.52, he's not just fast he has another gear and pulls away from people.

Once again, the tape of him is when he was only 18 and he's only 20 now, far from filling out his frame.

I think he's faster than his forty and the tape can't do justice to where is stands physically right now so I'm on board with the point that he does have 'rare' physical skills.

One thing I look for in any WR prospect is huge hands and Josh's span is over 10' wide, that is sensational. He also has a wide catch radius as his arms are also long so an excellent, size, speed, catch, ratio.

Add, he has submitted to bi-weekly drug tests over the last year and come up clean every time and he also has consented to weekly therapy sessions and testd high on his Wonderlic so the Taco Bell pot incident seems a distant memory.

I would not expect him to start from game-one but I do anticipate he will supplant WR Mohammad Massaquoi before the season ends.

Next year appears to be when he could be a hot item but the time to get him is now if you can stash him.

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'Hoot&HoLLer said:

I like the pick even more if his age is really only 20. CBS sports lists him as having turned 21 on April 13th with dob of 4/19/91.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

'Hoot&HoLLer said:

I like the pick even more if his age is really only 20. CBS sports lists him as having turned 21 on April 13th with dob of 4/19/91.

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I realyed what I saw on two different sites.CBS said he turned 21 on the 13th with a birth date on the 19th.

I am sure someone can verify his age but CBS has an error with one of those dates.

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'identikit said:

'Bracie Smathers said:

'Hoot&HoLLer said:

I like the pick even more if his age is really only 20. CBS sports lists him as having turned 21 on April 13th with dob of 4/19/91.

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I realyed what I saw on two different sites.CBS said he turned 21 on the 13th with a birth date on the 19th.

I am sure someone can verify his age but CBS has an error with one of those dates.

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He'd still be 21 either way.

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... There's a wide range of opinion on how good Gordon can be

... "It's very hard to find a comparable player," an AFC personnel executive said. "The off-field issues, you try and draw on those players like that who have turned into huge successes, and having those examples tends to give executives some peace of mind. I struggled to come up with a high volume of players that have had his amount of issues and done a 180. We'll see. The rest of it is up to the kid."

... According to sources with four NFL clubs, Gordon failed three drug tests as a collegian. The first two came at Baylor. The latter, according to these sources, came after charges were dropped in his marijuana-related arrest of 2010, and that led to his dismissal from the Baptist school, which has a reputation for being tough on drugs. That led to his transfer to Utah, where he failed another drug test. (I've only heard three failed drug tests, not four. Breer says two came in 2010 and lead to his suspension and then he failed again and left Baylor, that adds to three but he then says their was another failed drug test and I have not heard this from any other source. I've heard he agreed to bi-weekly drug tests and passed them all at Utah and we know he passed a random test prior to his Pro Day and he has also reported he's been in weekly therapy sessions. )

... "It's just something where you say, 'Hey man, put [the marijuana] down'," said an NFC personnel director. "You never know which way they'll go when they get here. It's hard to know how important football is, and how important weed is to the kid. And the environment he goes into is important too. Then, it's how they mature through the process you put them through." (I get the concern and agree to a point about adverse effects on production for an athelete but Moss and others have shown they can produce no matter what they do off the field. I've got zero moral issues with that sort of personal decision but if it effects performance or ability to learn his craft then its not a personal decision when it effets others so it is a concern along those lines for me so we shall see.

... "I talked to a zillion guys at both Baylor and Utah," Browns GM Tom Heckert said on a conference call with the Cleveland media. "To be honest with you, I couldn't find anybody to say one bad thing about the kid. I really enjoyed meeting with him. It's something that is out there that we have done our homework on. To say we're 100 percent, we're not 100 percent on anybody in the draft, but we felt good enough that he's going to be a positive influence on our team."

... "Take the background stuff out of it, let's talk about the player and his talent. He plays at just under 6-4 and at 220, that's hard to find, and does play with legit speed," an AFC college scout said. "I know he ran 4.52, but he plays like a 4.40 guy. … The issue is those Baylor guys are tough, there's no playbook, there's a lot of route conversions. He's gonna be starting over from a fundamental standpoint. He doesn't know how to run routes, and he has some natural tightness."

... "I think all that stuff is fixable," the NFC personnel director said. "Some things he does better than (Justin) Blackmon. He plays faster than Blackmon, has a similar body type. He has better body control and is a more fluid athlete. The difference is, Blackmon's finished product. Think of it this way, say you get 20 reps running a specific route at game speed, and add it up. Think of many reps he missed. That's how far behind he is. And then you have to think of how far he can go."

Asked if he stacks up with Blackmon or Michael Floyd, the 2012 draft's top two receivers, the NFC personnel man answered, "Physically, yes." And posed with the same question, the AFC personnel director said, "Floyd's a bit faster than him, he has similar speed to Blackmon. Both guys, Floyd and Blackmon, at this point, are better route runners than he is. And that's probably it. But yes, there are some common traits."

... The Cleveland Browns bought that Gordon has grown up. But only time will tell whether or not that's truly the case. That part is up to him.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

Wiki says he's 21 but that is still very young. So the film is fromm when he was 19, still very young and far from filling out his frame.

Albert Breer from NFL.com has an article with some quotes from around the league on Gordon.

My link

... There's a wide range of opinion on how good Gordon can be

... "It's very hard to find a comparable player," an AFC personnel executive said. "The off-field issues, you try and draw on those players like that who have turned into huge successes, and having those examples tends to give executives some peace of mind. I struggled to come up with a high volume of players that have had his amount of issues and done a 180. We'll see. The rest of it is up to the kid."

... According to sources with four NFL clubs, Gordon failed three drug tests as a collegian. The first two came at Baylor. The latter, according to these sources, came after charges were dropped in his marijuana-related arrest of 2010, and that led to his dismissal from the Baptist school, which has a reputation for being tough on drugs. That led to his transfer to Utah, where he failed another drug test. (I've only heard three failed drug tests, not four. Breer says two came in 2010 and lead to his suspension and then he failed again and left Baylor, that adds to three but he then says their was another failed drug test and I have not heard this from any other source. I've heard he agreed to bi-weekly drug tests and passed them all at Utah and we know he passed a random test prior to his Pro Day and he has also reported he's been in weekly therapy sessions. )

... "It's just something where you say, 'Hey man, put [the marijuana] down'," said an NFC personnel director. "You never know which way they'll go when they get here. It's hard to know how important football is, and how important weed is to the kid. And the environment he goes into is important too. Then, it's how they mature through the process you put them through." (I get the concern and agree to a point about adverse effects on production for an athelete but Moss and others have shown they can produce no matter what they do off the field. I've got zero moral issues with that sort of personal decision but if it effects performance or ability to learn his craft then its not a personal decision when it effets others so it is a concern along those lines for me so we shall see.

... "I talked to a zillion guys at both Baylor and Utah," Browns GM Tom Heckert said on a conference call with the Cleveland media. "To be honest with you, I couldn't find anybody to say one bad thing about the kid. I really enjoyed meeting with him. It's something that is out there that we have done our homework on. To say we're 100 percent, we're not 100 percent on anybody in the draft, but we felt good enough that he's going to be a positive influence on our team."

... "Take the background stuff out of it, let's talk about the player and his talent. He plays at just under 6-4 and at 220, that's hard to find, and does play with legit speed," an AFC college scout said. "I know he ran 4.52, but he plays like a 4.40 guy. … The issue is those Baylor guys are tough, there's no playbook, there's a lot of route conversions. He's gonna be starting over from a fundamental standpoint. He doesn't know how to run routes, and he has some natural tightness."

... "I think all that stuff is fixable," the NFC personnel director said. "Some things he does better than (Justin) Blackmon. He plays faster than Blackmon, has a similar body type. He has better body control and is a more fluid athlete. The difference is, Blackmon's finished product. Think of it this way, say you get 20 reps running a specific route at game speed, and add it up. Think of many reps he missed. That's how far behind he is. And then you have to think of how far he can go."

Asked if he stacks up with Blackmon or Michael Floyd, the 2012 draft's top two receivers, the NFC personnel man answered, "Physically, yes." And posed with the same question, the AFC personnel director said, "Floyd's a bit faster than him, he has similar speed to Blackmon. Both guys, Floyd and Blackmon, at this point, are better route runners than he is. And that's probably it. But yes, there are some common traits."

... The Cleveland Browns bought that Gordon has grown up. But only time will tell whether or not that's truly the case. That part is up to him.

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He is young, raw, but he's got rare physical skills and a history of smoking pot.The Browns feel he checks out characer-wise but from all acconts he is at least a year away from making an impact. He's behind after missing mini camps and OTAs. He's going to get his first NFL playbook after not having one at Baylor and he's got tons of work to do in getting reps and getting any sort of chemistry goiong with Weeden.

Don't expect much this year from him but I do think he'll take Mo-Massaquoi's job by the end of this season.

If you check out other rookie WRs and look at the production they have their rookie year and compare it to the second/third seasons you see the 'general trend' is they don't do much, if anything, the first part of their rookie year but get a shot and start to produce at the end of that year and carry it forward.

So if he struggles or doesn't break into the starting line-up he could probably come cheaper at some point this year. Right now the hype is probably driving his price up but uncertainty about his skills could pop-up if he doesn't get a shot or if he struggles. That would be the time to get him at a cheaper price but I wouldn't expect a return on investment until next year.

I get the pick and I also get that his best shot to make an impact is next year.

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'Boston said:

There are plenty of character risks who have washed out and plenty who have got their act together so it's real easy to make a case either way for this type of kid...what makes me nervous about Gordon is going to a team that has been losing regularly and now has a rookie QB, a rookie RB, a starting WR that is a second year player and a Coach who is only in his second year as an HC...does this team have the environment to not only get his head on straight off-the-field but also make sure he's committed to his craft on-the-field because there doesn't seem to be much debate in-the-fact he's somewhat raw and needs to be fully on-board as a professional to be worth what should turn out-to-be a pretty high second round pick in 2013...

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'Bucky86 said:

So what WR's has he jumped in front of in rookie dynasty rankings?

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'Bracie Smathers said:

'Boston said:

There are plenty of character risks who have washed out and plenty who have got their act together so it's real easy to make a case either way for this type of kid...what makes me nervous about Gordon is going to a team that has been losing regularly and now has a rookie QB, a rookie RB, a starting WR that is a second year player and a Coach who is only in his second year as an HC...does this team have the environment to not only get his head on straight off-the-field but also make sure he's committed to his craft on-the-field because there doesn't seem to be much debate in-the-fact he's somewhat raw and needs to be fully on-board as a professional to be worth what should turn out-to-be a pretty high second round pick in 2013...

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If you want to question Gordon due to the fact he was drafted by the Browns with the argument that he's a questionable prospect because he joined a team who has had a losing track record then I would have to question the logic behind that argument.Players on bad teams can be highly productive, players on good teams can produce very little. It seems that talent and opportunity have much more to do with individual production than W/L track record and track records change.I don't see any team in the bottom half of the NFL who have done as much as Cleveland has in the draft over the last couple of years to change their losing track record.True, last year Shurmur was a rookie HC. He brought in a new offense and defense and didn't get OTAs or mini camps to help develop his rookies but his top three rookies started from game-one and were highly productive. DT Phil Taylor lead all rookie D-Linemen in tackles, DE Jabaal Sheard was second in sacks and lead all rookie defenders in forced fumbles, WR Greg Little had 61 receptions, more than Julio Jones. Later picks all made the team and OG Jason Pinkston was forced into the starting lineup from game-one due to an injruy to veteran OG Eric Stienbeck missing last year due to injury and Pinkston turned into a real find after a shaky start. Four starters from last year who started every game. This year the Browns top three picks are all scheduled to start from game-one, RB Trent Richardson, QB Brandon Weeden, and ORT Mitchell Schwartz.Taylor is hurt but he'll be back in November and now it appears that WR Josh Gordon could contribute later in the year about the time that Taylor is due back. Weeden is a rookie QB so he'll struggle but Schwartz and Richardson should produce immediately. The Browns have attacked the weakness' on their team so the argument that a team which has lost is doomed to forever lose doesn't hold water with me and I don't automatically assume the pick given up to acquire Gordon will wind up as being high second round draft pick.Their are pieces in place on the Browns that I feel will make immediate contributions and I don't know exactly how that will effect the W/L record.My opinion is Cleveland has done more than any team who finished at the bottom half of the league to improve their talent which should improve their win total but the production of Gordon is more on him rather than on the W/L record of the Browns so I don't agree with that argument even if the Browns don't improve their win total.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

My opinion is Cleveland has done more than any team who finished at the bottom half of the league to improve their talent

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'treat88 said:

'Bracie Smathers said:

My opinion is Cleveland has done more than any team who finished at the bottom half of the league to improve their talent

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I can't argue this sentiment.I do think they dropped the ball in a big way by not getting RG3, but they have certainly become a better team on paper.

Everything hinges on Weeden now.

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'amnesiac said:

how does the rookie pay scale work with supplemental picks? does he get paid the same as Coby Fleener?

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@adbrandt

As high 2nd rd pick, Gordon will make roughly 5M over four years, including signing bonus of about 2.3M. First 2 yrs full guarantee.

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No. 33: WR Brian Quick. Signed for 4 years, $5.386 million, with $2.357 million signing bonus.

No. 35: LB Courtney Upshaw. Signed for 4 years, $5.296 million, with $2.292 million signing bonus.

No. 37: OL Mitchell Schwartz. Signed for 4 years, $5.170 million, with $2.206 million signing bonus.

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'Boston said:

I think we're talking about two different things...my question is are the Browns currently an organization for a young player with character concerns...if Gordon were going to a team with stong veteran leadership like New England, Green Bay or Baltimore I would feel a little more comfortable about him toeing the line...this doesn't mean that he can't thrive in Cleveland (or that it would be guarantee of him doing well with one of those teams) I am simply pointing out that this is a legit concern...it's always easier for a kid like Gordon to go to a situation where he is overwhelmed with positive influences...

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'treat88 said:

'Bracie Smathers said:

My opinion is Cleveland has done more than any team who finished at the bottom half of the league to improve their talent

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I can't argue this sentiment.I do think they dropped the ball in a big way by not getting RG3, but they have certainly become a better team on paper.Everything hinges on Weeden now.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

Wiki says he's 21 but that is still very young. So the film is fromm when he was 19, still very young and far from filling out his frame.

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'wdcrob said:

In four of the HyperActive leagues supplemental drafts he went for:2013 1st and 3rd2013 2nd and 4th2013 2nd and 4th2014 2ndPlus some BB$$ in each case.

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'jwb said:

In two of my leagues, we adjusted the claim process for supp players because of him (prior years we just used a FCFS placeholder name, and it resulted in very minor grumbling when guys like Pryor were involved. This seemed different.) We used BB dollars, with previous draft position as the tiebreaker. In both leagues, multiple guys bid their entire $100 (me included - got him in one of them).

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'Buckna said:

'jwb said:

In two of my leagues, we adjusted the claim process for supp players because of him (prior years we just used a FCFS placeholder name, and it resulted in very minor grumbling when guys like Pryor were involved. This seemed different.) We used BB dollars, with previous draft position as the tiebreaker. In both leagues, multiple guys bid their entire $100 (me included - got him in one of them).

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I got him in the other due to tiebreaker. I looked at it as a similar pick to Little last year who went as early as 1.07 in 1 of my drafts (although this year is a better class.) IMO, Jordan slots somewhere right after the top 3 WR's of Blackmon, Wright & Floyd. In the middle of the WR 4~6 range, which means Jordan is worth a late 1st in a rookie draft.

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'MAC_32 said:

FCFS just wouldn't be fair in a case like this one.

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'Shutout said:

Would anyone use (or plan to use) a 1st round pick on him in their rookie draft? Put aside the fact that he wasn't available if you already drafted but, just given what you know and now that you know what team he will play for, Are there any of you guys out there willing to draft him at spots where guys like hill, Jeffery, Randle, etc have gone?

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'wdcrob said:

'MAC_32 said:

FCFS just wouldn't be fair in a case like this one.

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I think Gordon is causing most leagues with an open WW and FCFS for supplementals to reevaluate the process.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

'Shutout said:

Would anyone use (or plan to use) a 1st round pick on him in their rookie draft? Put aside the fact that he wasn't available if you already drafted but, just given what you know and now that you know what team he will play for, Are there any of you guys out there willing to draft him at spots where guys like hill, Jeffery, Randle, etc have gone?

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I hold the tenth pick in my rookie draft (12 team, non-ppr, idp, nearly all Browns fans so Gordon and Weeden will go higher than typical fantasy league). If he's there then I would consider him with my pick.I figure the top nine picks will fall off the board something similiar to this:

1. Trent Richardson, RB, Cleveland

2. Doug Martin, RB, Tampa Bay

3. Robert Griffin III, QB, Washington

4. Justin Blackmon, WR, Jacksonville

5. Michael Floyd, WR, Arizona

6. Kendall Wright, WR, Tennessee

7. Andrew Luck, QB, Indianapolis

8. David Wilson, RB, N.Y. Giants

9. Ronnie Hillman, RB, Denver

That would leave the following pool to choose from in no particular order:

Luke Keuchly, LB, Carolina

Robert Turbin, RB, Seattle

Isaiah Pead, RB, St. Louis

Alshon Jeffery, WR, Chicago

Stephen Hill, WR, N.Y. Jets

Brandon Weeden, QB, Cleveland

Chris Rainey, RB, Pittsburgh

And Josh Gordon, WR, Cleveland

I'm loaed at RB and could use a QB with no shot at Luck or RG III but its doubtful Weeden falls in my league.

Based off upside and being unable to nail my top need, I'm leaning Gordon with my top pick.

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few days ago, Adam Schefter posted a mailbag session over at ESPN. Nobody must have read it until Wednesday (including myself), because that's when other media outlets picked up on these little nuggets that Schefter had about wide receiver Josh Gordon:

"One NFL executive told me Gordon has Randy Moss-like talents. Another said Gordon is a faster Brandon Marshall. So the talent definitely is there. He gives the Browns a big, downfield threat. But there also are major questions about his maturity, decision-making and determination. Gordon now will have a chance to answer those questions. If he takes his new job seriously and grows up, he can be a big-time difference maker. It's up to him."

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'Bracie Smathers said:

Wiki says he's 21 but that is still very young. So the film is fromm when he was 19, still very young and far from filling out his frame.

Albert Breer from NFL.com has an article with some quotes from around the league on Gordon.

My link

... There's a wide range of opinion on how good Gordon can be

... "It's very hard to find a comparable player," an AFC personnel executive said. "The off-field issues, you try and draw on those players like that who have turned into huge successes, and having those examples tends to give executives some peace of mind. I struggled to come up with a high volume of players that have had his amount of issues and done a 180. We'll see. The rest of it is up to the kid."

... According to sources with four NFL clubs, Gordon failed three drug tests as a collegian. The first two came at Baylor. The latter, according to these sources, came after charges were dropped in his marijuana-related arrest of 2010, and that led to his dismissal from the Baptist school, which has a reputation for being tough on drugs. That led to his transfer to Utah, where he failed another drug test. (I've only heard three failed drug tests, not four. Breer says two came in 2010 and lead to his suspension and then he failed again and left Baylor, that adds to three but he then says their was another failed drug test and I have not heard this from any other source. I've heard he agreed to bi-weekly drug tests and passed them all at Utah and we know he passed a random test prior to his Pro Day and he has also reported he's been in weekly therapy sessions. )

... "It's just something where you say, 'Hey man, put [the marijuana] down'," said an NFC personnel director. "You never know which way they'll go when they get here. It's hard to know how important football is, and how important weed is to the kid. And the environment he goes into is important too. Then, it's how they mature through the process you put them through." (I get the concern and agree to a point about adverse effects on production for an athelete but Moss and others have shown they can produce no matter what they do off the field. I've got zero moral issues with that sort of personal decision but if it effects performance or ability to learn his craft then its not a personal decision when it effets others so it is a concern along those lines for me so we shall see.

... "I talked to a zillion guys at both Baylor and Utah," Browns GM Tom Heckert said on a conference call with the Cleveland media. "To be honest with you, I couldn't find anybody to say one bad thing about the kid. I really enjoyed meeting with him. It's something that is out there that we have done our homework on. To say we're 100 percent, we're not 100 percent on anybody in the draft, but we felt good enough that he's going to be a positive influence on our team."

... "Take the background stuff out of it, let's talk about the player and his talent. He plays at just under 6-4 and at 220, that's hard to find, and does play with legit speed," an AFC college scout said. "I know he ran 4.52, but he plays like a 4.40 guy. … The issue is those Baylor guys are tough, there's no playbook, there's a lot of route conversions. He's gonna be starting over from a fundamental standpoint. He doesn't know how to run routes, and he has some natural tightness."

... "I think all that stuff is fixable," the NFC personnel director said. "Some things he does better than (Justin) Blackmon. He plays faster than Blackmon, has a similar body type. He has better body control and is a more fluid athlete. The difference is, Blackmon's finished product. Think of it this way, say you get 20 reps running a specific route at game speed, and add it up. Think of many reps he missed. That's how far behind he is. And then you have to think of how far he can go."

Asked if he stacks up with Blackmon or Michael Floyd, the 2012 draft's top two receivers, the NFC personnel man answered, "Physically, yes." And posed with the same question, the AFC personnel director said, "Floyd's a bit faster than him, he has similar speed to Blackmon. Both guys, Floyd and Blackmon, at this point, are better route runners than he is. And that's probably it. But yes, there are some common traits."

... The Cleveland Browns bought that Gordon has grown up. But only time will tell whether or not that's truly the case. That part is up to him.

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He is young, raw, but he's got rare physical skills and a history of smoking pot.The Browns feel he checks out characer-wise but from all acconts he is at least a year away from making an impact. He's behind after missing mini camps and OTAs. He's going to get his first NFL playbook after not having one at Baylor and he's got tons of work to do in getting reps and getting any sort of chemistry goiong with Weeden.

Don't expect much this year from him but I do think he'll take Mo-Massaquoi's job by the end of this season.

If you check out other rookie WRs and look at the production they have their rookie year and compare it to the second/third seasons you see the 'general trend' is they don't do much, if anything, the first part of their rookie year but get a shot and start to produce at the end of that year and carry it forward.

So if he struggles or doesn't break into the starting line-up he could probably come cheaper at some point this year. Right now the hype is probably driving his price up but uncertainty about his skills could pop-up if he doesn't get a shot or if he struggles. That would be the time to get him at a cheaper price but I wouldn't expect a return on investment until next year.

I get the pick and I also get that his best shot to make an impact is next year.

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'Bracie Smathers said:

'Boston said:

I think we're talking about two different things...my question is are the Browns currently an organization for a young player with character concerns...if Gordon were going to a team with stong veteran leadership like New England, Green Bay or Baltimore I would feel a little more comfortable about him toeing the line...this doesn't mean that he can't thrive in Cleveland (or that it would be guarantee of him doing well with one of those teams) I am simply pointing out that this is a legit concern...it's always easier for a kid like Gordon to go to a situation where he is overwhelmed with positive influences...

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I would have to volley that question back to you and ask why do you think Cleveland is a questionable organization in terms of being able to handle players with charector questions?Has their been a problem with any current Browns that you can point out? LB Scott Fujita's issue wasn't when he was with Cleveland. The Browns took DE Jabaal Sheard who had some issues in college and he produced as a rookie. The Browns took DT Phil Taylor in the first round of last year's draft and he produced as a rookie. They also took WR Greg Little who hadn't played for a year due to a suspension for things he did in college and he produced.

Cleveland isn't Detroit or Cincinatti and New England didn't turn around Chad Ocho Cinco so their seems to be a misconception about Cleveland's ability to take rookies who had issues in college and turn them into productive players. The immediate track record in Cleveland is actually pretty good for evaluating college rookies who had issues and then having them produce without issues in the NFL.

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