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WR Josh Gordon, KC (2 Viewers)

Ellie826 said:
Why do you say his numbers would be higher if he stayed in Cleveland but then say it was good luck for fantasy owners he went to the patriots? I think his numbers would be way higher in Cleveland. Mayfield is throwing the ball deep a ton and is accurate with it but is getting killed on drops. Rewatched ratley drop 2 bombs and Calloway also. Maybe he throws it too hard? 

Some observations about last night. Brady had one deep throw to Gordon last night,  which was under thrown. They are definitely using him more, he seemed to be first read on a lot of his receptions. His rac is non existent though and the cb plays right on him. Didn’t they use to give him a cushion? The 2 incompletions in the beginning of the game seemed to be on him but there didn’t seem to be any more miscommunication and the other incompletions were bad throws. Overall happy with his growing usage but concerned with the lack of deep balls. Could only see targets so can’t see if Gordon is even running go routes and not getting separation or what but hope they are figuring that part of his game out.
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His numbers would have been higher because he would have been on the field more.

It is a boon for the Patriots because he absolutely and unquestionably changes how other teams defend the offense.

The fact that he clearly adds value to the Patriots is a boon (would you prefer if I said "potential boon?") for fantasy owners because Brady>>>Clear QBs and Patriots>>>Brown's.

Unfortunately owners need deal with even more delayed gratification (Again!?!?! Seriously??!?!) but we're kind of used to that by now. 

But Gordon's star appears to be legitimately rising. Exhibit A: Notice how we haven't been discussing "off-field issues"?

 
Just to do a reset of how Gordon has performed so far in NE (Weeks 4-6 with MNF left to play this week):

- Ranked WR50 in total fantasy points scored in PPR leagues
- Ranked WR70 in fantasy ppg in PPR league
- Ranked WR80 in Week 4
- Ranked WR29 in Week 5
- Ranked WR48 in Week 6

Sure, the arrow is pointing up in terms of snap counts (81% of snaps) and targets (9) . . . but that hasn't translated into big fantasy numbers so far. If not for his somewhat fluky TD last week, people would be clamoring that he has been a fantasy bust so far in NE.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Just to do a reset of how Gordon has performed so far in NE (Weeks 4-6 with MNF left to play this week):

- Ranked WR50 in total fantasy points scored in PPR leagues
- Ranked WR70 in fantasy ppg in PPR league
- Ranked WR80 in Week 4
- Ranked WR29 in Week 5
- Ranked WR48 in Week 6

Sure, the arrow is pointing up in terms of snap counts (81% of snaps) and targets (9) . . . but that hasn't translated into big fantasy numbers so far. If not for his somewhat fluky TD last week, people would be clamoring that he has been a fantasy bust so far in NE.
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How many receivers walk right into fantasy production on a new team? No OTAs, or TC, and in New England. It's a bit unfair to knock him for having not put up fantasy points yet, in his first 3 games with the Pats.

But you have to be able to see where this is headed.

 
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Stuart Ullman said:
He had 2 near misses in the end zone. He could have easily had a statline of 7/82/2 TDs if he's not interfered with on the first look and if he brought down the 2nd endzone look.
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I don't mean to single you out, but this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with my little brother after a hockey game once when we were kids:

Me: "How was the game?"

Bro: "Great! I scored 4 goals!!"

Me: "Awesome!"

Bro: "Well, the first one, the ref called offsides.  The second one hit the post.  The third one, a guy tripped me.  The fourth one, I was wide open but Billy didn't pass it."

Me: "So... you didn't score any actual goals?"

Bro: "Nope."

 
I really think there are a lot of moving parts, and him getting on the field, Brady Instagramming pictures of him with the word "Attack" on it, all the stuff seems trending up. He may never be great there for fantasy, but he was first read a ton and did have five catches on nine targets, two of which were back shoulder miscommunications and one where he should have sat in the zone coverage. He's still learning. Maybe by Week 8 or 9. 

 
cloppbeast said:
How many receivers walk right into fantasy production on a new team? No OTAs, or TC. And in New England. It's a bit un fair to knock him for having not put up fantasy points yet. You have to be able to see where this is headed though.
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IMO, it's a stretch to think he will have 9-180-2 weeks like several people have been hoping for / projecting. I have already posted that I would not expect Gordon to be a consistent high end fantasy producer this year. Too many mouths to feed and too hard to build chemistry and rapport with Brady on the fly, in mid season. IMO, people are chasing points that won't consistently come.

Everything is relative, though, as owners may not have a lot of other options and pretty much have to start him. However, teams that have better options should leave him on their bench for the time being.

NE won't be facing the invisible KC defense (with massive injuries) very often. I think Gordon is serving a much bigger role for NE than his fantasy value. He's helping create space and better match ups for other NE targets while opening up more running lanes for Michel.

 
Anarchy99 said:
NE won't be facing the invisible KC defense (with massive injuries) very often. I think Gordon is serving a much bigger role for NE than his fantasy value. He's helping create space and better match ups for other NE targets while opening up more running lanes for Michel.
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I've agreed with this before and think it needs reiteration. I start him from a football perspective, and actually will lose to be entertained, as that's why I do this. The payoff after years watching the other night with him on the field was nice to have and so far (holds breath) it's been nice to see a personal quietness about him.  

eta* By quietness I mean no rumors, organizational leaks, a decreased weird social media presence, everything sort of trending up on his personal front.  

 
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Anarchy99 said:
IMO, it's a stretch to think he will have 9-180-2 weeks like several people have been hoping for / projecting. I have already posted that I would not expect Gordon to be a consistent high end fantasy producer this year. Too many mouths to feed and too hard to build chemistry and rapport with Brady on the fly, in mid season. IMO, people are chasing points that won't consistently come.

Everything is relative, though, as owners may not have a lot of other options and pretty much have to start him. However, teams that have better options should leave him on their bench for the time being.

NE won't be facing the invisible KC defense (with massive injuries) very often. I think Gordon is serving a much bigger role for NE than his fantasy value. He's helping create space and better match ups for other NE targets while opening up more running lanes for Michel.
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Does the "too many mouths to feed" apply to Gronk? Because in terms of talent, you could argue they're both in the same ballpark. Some guys you just have to give the ball.

I was with you until last night's game. I didn't expect him to play too much while learning the offense and what-have-you. But seeing the field this much after three games tells me he's going to have some monster stat lines coming up.

 
cloppbeast said:
Does the "too many mouths to feed" apply to Gronk? Because in terms of talent, you could argue they're both in the same ballpark. Some guys you just have to give the ball.

I was with you until last night's game. I didn't expect him to play too much while learning the offense and what-have-you. But seeing the field this much after three games tells me he's going to have some monster stat lines coming up.
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Caveat emptor. NE more than any other team reinvents their game plan from week to week and opponent to opponent. Playing a ton of snaps doesn't always translate into fantasy production. Chris Hogan has been playing a ton of snaps and has been mostly invisible.

As far as Gronk goes, I think he is nursing an injury and has also been called upon to block more. I personally think he has lost a step, which gets magnified when teams double him. The bigger concern for him is that they seem to be running the ball more near the goal line and not getting Gronk many goal line looks. He's on pace for around 70/1100, which is still a strong season for a TE. Just not getting in the end zone.

I think people have been expecting Gronk to produce at his 2011 level as a baseline for his production. However, his TD rate after multiple injuries the past couple of years has been around half as much.

Gronk is a wait and see. If they can get the OL to block well without him and gets over some injuries, Gronk gets over his ankle issue, and the team starts releasing him into more routes than I think Gronk will go back to seeing more targets and red zone looks.

But Gronk has years of experience playing with Brady compared to a few weeks for Gordon. So I would tend to think Gronk has a better shot at bigger numbers this year than Flash does.

 
Chaka said:
His numbers would have been higher because he would have been on the field more.

It is a boon for the Patriots because he absolutely and unquestionably changes how other teams defend the offense.

The fact that he clearly adds value to the Patriots is a boon (would you prefer if I said "potential boon?") for fantasy owners because Brady>>>Clear QBs and Patriots>>>Brown's.

Unfortunately owners need deal with even more delayed gratification (Again!?!?! Seriously??!?!) but we're kind of used to that by now. 

But Gordon's star appears to be legitimately rising. Exhibit A: Notice how we haven't been discussing "off-field issues"?
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Definitely agree the change of scenery seems to have helped him get motivated again which seemed to be lacking since last year he was always on time to meetings and this year he wasn’t which could show a lack of motivation.

Have to disagree on him being more relevant in New England. Baker throws a ton of deep passes vs Brady and it’s not crazy to say Baker is more accurate there. Maybe his numbers aren’t great but he is getting killed by drops. Also, ratley and Calloway combined for 18 targets last game. Imagine Gordon getting targets like that. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
You are sooo high on Gordon that your best offer is either the guy that’s currently the 47th best fantasy rb in ppr so far or the current 43rd ranked WR?  The guys that you are offering are right there along with Gordon as being some of the biggest disappointments in fantasy so far.  I like Gordon’s upside more than either. 

@Chaka 
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It's all I have to offer comparably in that league. I'm not going to give you AJ Green or David Johnson (my next 2 next best players for him).

You're the one who was displeased with Gordon's production at 9.2 points in that league. I figured McCoy's 12.4 or Crabtrees's 21.3 points this week would be viewed as an upgrade.

Both guys are the main options and see heavy targets each week. Not trying to low-ball you but both those guys have significantly outproduced Gordon to this point.

Since you don't think you can start Gordon and both those guys have been perfectly startable, I figured I might be in turn ballpark. 

 
OK, so three weeks into being traded to a new team… his snap count is WAY UP… his targets are WAY UP… still trying to shake the “Q” from in front of his name (not 100% healthy yet)… Patriots offense is rounding into full attack mode… Oh, and some guy named Tom Brady seems to like him almost as much as Soulfly.

Impact is obvious. He’s only going to get better as practice reps increase, timing gets better, etc.

Honestly the only question remaining is whether his off-field issues are behind him for good.

 
davearm said:
I don't mean to single you out, but this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with my little brother after a hockey game once when we were kids:

Me: "How was the game?"

Bro: "Great! I scored 4 goals!!"

Me: "Awesome!"

Bro: "Well, the first one, the ref called offsides.  The second one hit the post.  The third one, a guy tripped me.  The fourth one, I was wide open but Billy didn't pass it."

Me: "So... you didn't score any actual goals?"

Bro: "Nope."
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:lol:

 
davearm said:
I don't mean to single you out, but this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with my little brother after a hockey game once when we were kids:

Me: "How was the game?"

Bro: "Great! I scored 4 goals!!"

Me: "Awesome!"

Bro: "Well, the first one, the ref called offsides.  The second one hit the post.  The third one, a guy tripped me.  The fourth one, I was wide open but Billy didn't pass it."

Me: "So... you didn't score any actual goals?"

Bro: "Nope."
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:lmao:

Typical FBG poster/thread - If you take out his long TD run he only scored like a RB3

Gordon FBG poster/thread - If you add in his PI call, Brady under throws, the play he ran the wrong route, and take into account that he's a NE newbie, he really scored like a WR1.

 
C-Bound said:
Looks like it will be windy in the windy city next weekend.  What we thinking?  4-201-3?  #itsnevertooearly
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FWIW, as a Bears fan, Amukamara and Fuller are certainly burnable by Gordon. However I could see a lot of quick passing to Edelman / White to nullify the Bears pass rush.

 
Ellie826 said:
Definitely agree the change of scenery seems to have helped him get motivated again which seemed to be lacking since last year he was always on time to meetings and this year he wasn’t which could show a lack of motivation.

Have to disagree on him being more relevant in New England. Baker throws a ton of deep passes vs Brady and it’s not crazy to say Baker is more accurate there. Maybe his numbers aren’t great but he is getting killed by drops. Also, ratley and Calloway combined for 18 targets last game. Imagine Gordon getting targets like that. 
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I think it is crazy to suggest Mayfield is better than Brady at anything in 2018.

Actually I'm wrong. Mayfield is better at being worse than Brady at everything NFL QBs should do well.

Next year, maybe not but in 2018 Brady>>>>>>>Mayfield.

 
I guess Cleveland and New England got exactly what they wanted out of Josh. Cleveland got the ever-coveted back-end fifth-round pick. New England got the risk of a WR1 stretching the field during a Super Bowl. 

Worked out perfectly with Callaway catching how many targets out of ten and having the same drug issues? 

Hmmm...

Okay, sarcasm aside, this is a risk for New England -- which is why Dorsett and Hogan should still get run. They really should. Unless Josh is living with Brady and 24/7 without a liquor cabinet, then all bets are off. Addiction is a #####. 

But this could be the steal of the sports year as far as trades go.  

 
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I feel a lot better about Gordon as a Pats fan than I do a fantasy owner but i Think he can be a good fantasy option during the second half of the fantasy season. Getting more out of him than Fournette and he has more TDs than Julio. Yep, #### my fantasy season.

 
I'm thrilled the guy is staying sober, he has good football people around him to keep him focused on football, and that he has earned the trust of Brady.

The numbers may or may not come, but some people were writing him off months ago. I hope he continues to prove the naysayers wrong.

 
Bottom line, this WILL work out if Josh stays clean & does what he should.

By "work out" I mean as far as an FF asset (with Flash becoming a stud WR).

That said, it might not be until next season for him & Brady to get in enough of a groove to where they can fully utilize each other's abilities.

 
If he's not interfered with and adds a 50 yard TD he's a borderline WR1/2 this week. One big takeaway I had from this game is that while a trusted option Edelman has a severely limited catch radius. Saw several balls bounce off his fingertips. Gordon doesn't have this problem. I'd bet Gordon will be the clear #1 option in the near future.

 
cloppbeast said:
Surprising he even said that much.
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Yeah, I guess he felt he had to state the move from a thirty percent to eighty percent snap count to the media. 

I'm not being snarky, either. Just guessing he felt it was time to address it. 

Gordon rosterers, look up, it's happening. Shhh...

 
rockaction said:
I don't blame you. I don't blame Chaka. 

Two sides of the road...

Should the road be there.  
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We're just having some fun.

Now you are correct.  Non-Gordon owners have been on the high road and Gordon owners have been in the gutter for years.  

I'd love nothing more than Gordon show up for a change with A. Brown on bye this week (subscriber contest).  In my main league I desperately need him as I've lost Freeman and Guice and Cobb/Thompson are missing time.  Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) Boyd and Lindsey off the wire have been out producing him.  When I drafted him, I wasn't expecting to be missing 3-4 starters and still not have him be worthy of a lineup spot.

 
BassNBrew said:
We're just having some fun.

Now you are correct.  Non-Gordon owners have been on the high road and Gordon owners have been in the gutter for years.  

I'd love nothing more than Gordon show up for a change with A. Brown on bye this week (subscriber contest).  In my main league I desperately need him as I've lost Freeman and Guice and Cobb/Thompson are missing time.  Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) Boyd and Lindsey off the wire have been out producing him.  When I drafted him, I wasn't expecting to be missing 3-4 starters and still not have him be worthy of a lineup spot.
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Regarding the bolded: I know. I know you roster him. 

Regarding the italicized, it was really high risk, and you ought have known that. That said, I've always lauded you for doing so, given that winning it all is everything.  Nobody expected Josh Gordon for a fifth to the Pats. That's a little unusual. If he stays clean, they're going to win the Super Bowl. 

 
If you built your team as well as I have, Gordon will soon be the cherry on top that wins you a championship. 

the numbers haven't been great, but week after week, things are getting brighter.

 
BassNBrew said:
We're just having some fun.

Now you are correct.  Non-Gordon owners have been on the high road and Gordon owners have been in the gutter for years.  

I'd love nothing more than Gordon show up for a change with A. Brown on bye this week (subscriber contest).  In my main league I desperately need him as I've lost Freeman and Guice and Cobb/Thompson are missing time.  Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) Boyd and Lindsey off the wire have been out producing him.  When I drafted him, I wasn't expecting to be missing 3-4 starters and still not have him be worthy of a lineup spot.
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He got nine targets and played 80%+ offensive snaps. Hogan saw a season low ~60%. He also produced valuable IRL results for the Pats. He's on the rise in New England.

It's the Patriots so you never quite know who the game plan is going to feature or how it will develop/morph over the course of the game. It's the risk you run with any Pat in magic football. But at this point Gordon should, at the very least be a weekly flex play. Particularly with the byes in full swing.

 
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Soulfly3 said:
If you built your team as well as I have, Gordon will soon be the cherry on top that wins you a championship. 

the numbers haven't been great, but week after week, things are getting brighter.
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Wow, a somewhat reasonable post from Soulcurse.  There may be hope.

 
Chaka said:
He got nine targets and played 80%+ offensive snaps. Hogan saw a season low ~60%. He also produced valuable IRL results for the Pats. He's on the rise in New England.

It's the Patriots so you never quite know who the game plan is going to feature or how it will develop/morph over the course of the game. It's the risk you run with any Pat in magic football. But at this point Gordon should, at the very least be a weekly flex play. Particularly with the byes in full swing.
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Agree. Hard to keep him out of the lineup unless you are loaded.

CHI pass D is legitimate not good. Giving up a ton of yards. On the flip side, they are tough against the run so I don't think we're going to see S. Michel running for 7+ yards every carry like vs. KC.

Think this could be good ol' school NE all air attack this weekend. Lot of balls flying around. Think Gordon has as good a chance as any to get a few. 

A LOT of upside this week.

 
BassNBrew said:
We're just having some fun.

Now you are correct.  Non-Gordon owners have been on the high road and Gordon owners have been in the gutter for years.  
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Where would you put yourself on this road.  Do you own Gordon and are in the gutter?  Are you a non-Gordon owner?  If so why would you be in the thread?  

With these two options I would say everyone in this thread is in the gutter but it is finally time to get out.

 
skinsrule05 said:
Where would you put yourself on this road.  Do you own Gordon and are in the gutter?  Are you a non-Gordon owner?  If so why would you be in the thread?  

With these two options I would say everyone in this thread is in the gutter but it is finally time to get out.
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I own way too much Gordon.  Drafted him as a WR2 and even WR1 in some of my 16 team leagues where I started RB/RB.  I think he would have hit those numbers in Cleveland.  I felt the move to NE was a downgrade and posted as much on here.  It would definitely benefit me to be wrong about this.

 
kyoun1e said:
Agree. Hard to keep him out of the lineup unless you are loaded.

CHI pass D is legitimate not good. Giving up a ton of yards. On the flip side, they are tough against the run so I don't think we're going to see S. Michel running for 7+ yards every carry like vs. KC.

Think this could be good ol' school NE all air attack this weekend. Lot of balls flying around. Think Gordon has as good a chance as any to get a few. 

A LOT of upside this week.
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Man I love it when there are balls flying around all over the place.

 
All this depth chart ascension and Bilicheck's comments gives me less confidence in him. Making me worry.

 
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Chaka said:
I think it is crazy to suggest Mayfield is better than Brady at anything in 2018.

Actually I'm wrong. Mayfield is better at being worse than Brady at everything NFL QBs should do well.

Next year, maybe not but in 2018 Brady>>>>>>>Mayfield.
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Browns have the most downfield attempts 20+ yards at 37. I’m not sure what the patriots are at because they aren’t top 10 or bottom 10. How many downfield attempts has Brady completed?   I think the Gordon TD was his first of the year. Baker doesn’t have many completions but if you watch the tape, the balls are hitting the receivers in the hands and they are dropping it. Maybe Brady’s deep ball is better than bakers, but what are you basing that on? I haven’t watched Brady’s attempts except for what I saw live but his deep ball does not look as accurate as bakers, who I have watched on game pass.

 
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