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WR Josh Gordon, KC (1 Viewer)

BassNBrew said:
What a puff piece and not very reassuring...

“He’s done a really good job of trying to learn our offense."

"certainly there’s a lot to improve on, but he’s continued to make progress"

Well I guess he's earned a participation medal
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IMO The coaches are handling this correctly.  The comment wasn't for you.  Gordon needs the guidance and reaffirmation for a while. The Pats know exactly what they are doing with the media also.  We read what they want us to read. They play the media like a fiddle.

Personally, if any event did happen, IMO it was (or would be) handled internally.  Quietly.  I am speculating, but is that a bridge too far?  I would imagine that there probably would not have been discipline that would have put any barrier, any distance, between the team and Gordon (like a suspension, or a public benching, or even a critical comment in the media) - at least for most discipline.  The "Patriot Way" (as I understood) means that each player is accountable to each other to give 100%.  I would imagine if he is accountable to the team, disciple may have been more like extra reps, extra film room, extra sacrifice overall at the facility so as to earn the trust of his team mates and show them he was being accountable to the team.  Obviously, if was any issue serious enough, BB will release the player either outright or at the end of the season.  But depending on what was best for the team, not the player.

Does that make sense?  

 
Hairy Snowman said:
IMO The coaches are handling this correctly.  The comment wasn't for you.  Gordon needs the guidance and reaffirmation for a while. The Pats know exactly what they are doing with the media also.  We read what they want us to read. They play the media like a fiddle.

Personally, if any event did happen, IMO it was (or would be) handled internally.  Quietly.  I am speculating, but is that a bridge too far?  I would imagine that there probably would not have been discipline that would have put any barrier, any distance, between the team and Gordon (like a suspension, or a public benching, or even a critical comment in the media) - at least for most discipline.  The "Patriot Way" (as I understood) means that each player is accountable to each other to give 100%.  I would imagine if he is accountable to the team, disciple may have been more like extra reps, extra film room, extra sacrifice overall at the facility so as to earn the trust of his team mates and show them he was being accountable to the team.  Obviously, if was any issue serious enough, BB will release the player either outright or at the end of the season.  But depending on what was best for the team, not the player.

Does that make sense?  
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You make perfect sense.

Reading between the lines I thinking the article should have been titled Patriot WR coach say Gordon making progress.  Really wish he had said Gordon has done a really good job of learning the offense rather than trying to learn the offense.

 
BassNBrew said:
You make perfect sense.

Reading between the lines I thinking the article should have been titled Patriot WR coach say Gordon making progress.  Really wish he had said Gordon has done a really good job of learning the offense rather than trying to learn the offense.
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The offense takes years to perfect.  They need him.   And the truth is, they are going to make him into a great WR or he will be gone.  Just need a little patience. 

ETA The article states that he was late two times.  Rap wasn't wrong about that.  The article also states that he WAS set to be punished, but IMO BB pulled it as soon as he became aware the media were circling.  If no one knew the difference outside the team, then he probably doesn't start.  IMO     

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
They beat the bills, bears, chiefs, colts, and dolphins in their last 5 games.   They were favorites to win all 5 of those games and were heavy favorites to win 3 of those games.  He did next to nothing in the chiefs game.  The one game where he helped play a part in winning was maybe the bears game.  Had he not been present for any of those games--the team probalby still goes undefeated--or worst case scenario goes 4-1.  Let's not make insinuate any undeserved claims for him playing a major part in the Pats being successful in their last 5.   
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If you're implying that his stats indicate he did "next to nothing" in those games, you're not understanding the importance of him on that field for NE.

Tell me... Who covers Gordon when he's out there? And what does that do for guys like Edelman, Gronk and White?

 
Soulfly3 said:
If you're implying that his stats indicate he did "next to nothing" in those games, you're not understanding the importance of him on that field for NE.

Tell me... Who covers Gordon when he's out there? And what does that do for guys like Edelman, Gronk and White?
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You are connecting dots that have zero reason to be connected.  The Pats could have thrown a replacement level WR out there in those games and would have most likely went 4-1.  You have been sooo blatantly wrong about Gordon for so long that you are reaching for every straw possible to save a tiny bit of face.  At some point Gordon will play a bigger part in the offense and actually do something positive for his fantasy owners--but so far he's been an absolute bust.    With your logic I can say-"hey--the week after the Browns traded away their cancerous WR they won their first game in over a year".   Why did you not connect that dot?   Why not mention that the Browns went 2-1 in the first 3 games after trading away Gordon and were robbed of going 3-0 because of some egregious officiating?   The Browns arguably improved just as much by dumping  him as the Pats improved by gaining him--so let's not act like he's been some "glue" thats holding the Pats together.   You didn't draft Gordon on your fantasy teams because he opens things up for Edeman, Gronk and White--so drop that narrative.  The Pats were going to win lots of games before they had Gordon and they are still going to win a lot of games now that they have him.  

 
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Soulfly3 said:
If you're implying that his stats indicate he did "next to nothing" in those games, you're not understanding the importance of him on that field for NE.

Tell me... Who covers Gordon when he's out there? And what does that do for guys like Edelman, Gronk and White?
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Gronk is well below his career norms.

Edelman is about at his career norms.

White is getting much more usage because he's literally the last RB standing.

So to answer your question, Gordon has done nothing for those three guys.  Or at least nothing that other WRs before him didn't do.

 
Hairy Snowman said:
Very possible those 3 teams make the playoffs.  The Bears and Chiefs were no slouches. 
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And?  Aside from the Chiefs--they still would have been favorites to beat the Bears, Dolphins with any replacement level WR in place of Gordon.   The Pats are historically a great team.   Let's not act like his presence is the difference between them going 5-0 vs going 1-4.   The Browns hadn't won a game in over a year.   In the first 3 games after they dumped him--they went 2-1 and should have been 3-0 if it wasn’t  for some garbage officiating in the Raiders game.  I'm a Gordon owner and I think the guy will have an impact at some point this season--but this desire to reach to give him some sort of undeserved hollow praise is sickening.   

 
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Soulfly3 said:
If you're implying that his stats indicate he did "next to nothing" in those games, you're not understanding the importance of him on that field for NE.

Tell me... Who covers Gordon when he's out there? And what does that do for guys like Edelman, Gronk and White?
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I'm going to petition my league next year to count points for everyone on the field for each given play. This is a team sport. It is total bull#### that Gordon isn't getting any points for opening the up the field for lesser talents like Gronk, White, and Edleman. 

 
davearm said:
Gronk is well below his career norms.

Edelman is about at his career norms.

White is getting much more usage because he's literally the last RB standing.

So to answer your question, Gordon has done nothing for those three guys.  Or at least nothing that other WRs before him didn't do.
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Haha. Or just this. :goodposting:

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
You are connecting dots that have zero reason to be connected.  The Pats could have thrown a replacement level WR out there in those games and would have most likely went 4-1.  You have been sooo blatantly wrong about Gordon for so long that you are reaching for every straw possible to save a tiny bit of face.  At some point Gordon will play a bigger part in the offense and actually do something positive for his fantasy owners--but so far he's been an absolute bust.    With your logic I can say-"hey--the week after the Browns traded away their cancerous WR they won their first game in over a year".   Why did you not connect that dot?   Why not mention that the Browns went 2-1 in the first 3 games after trading away Gordon and were robbed of going 3-0 because of some egregious officiating?   The Browns arguably improved just as much by dumping  him as the Pats improved by gaining him--so let's not act like he's been some "glue" thats holding the Pats together.   You didn't draft Gordon on your fantasy teams because he opens things up for Edeman, Gronk and White--so drop that narrative.  The Pats were going to win lots of games before they had Gordon and they are still going to win a lot of games now that they have him.  
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Would have, could have, should have pure speculation.

And statistically, considering he was traded midseason and has had a hamstring injury all year, he hasn't performed poorly.  

I think you are irrational in your analysis.  

He isn't superman.  He isn't unplayable either.  Seems you have a ton of bitterness towards Soulfly. Or someone.   

 
No one should believe anything the media says (good, bad or otherwise) about anything going on behind closed doors in New England.

Heck, we still don't know anything about why Malcolm Butler was benched for the Super Bowl.

 
Hairy Snowman said:
Would have, could have, should have pure speculation.
Oh please.  A historically great franchise that finds ways to win with guys like Hogan/Dorsett being their main WR's is 5-0 because Gordon is there?   Take BB and Brady off that team and you think Gordon carries them to 5-0? We also know that the franchise that was historically bad somehow started winning some games the very moment they traded Gordon away.   The Pats were going to be a great team with or without Gordon--that's far from speculation. 

And statistically, considering he was traded midseason and has had a hamstring injury all year, he hasn't performed poorly.  

Why was he traded?  He was traded because of moronic behavior and showed up late to meetings.  Why was he hurt?  Because his decision making is soo good that he thought it would be a great idea to race a drone just coming off a ginger hamstring. Was he doing this to practice to be a better player? No--he did this because he was shooting a self promotional video a day before his team plays against he Saints.     If you want to make excuses for his lack of production being because of trades and injuries--why not be fully objective and analyze why these things actually occured.  

I think you are irrational in your analysis.  
 

My analysis is objective. I drafted Gordon in half of my leagues and I would be thrilled if he actually produced. I actually think he probably will produce at some point soon. However--being objective involves calling a spade a spade.  NOBODY drafted Josh Gordon on their fantasy teams thinking that his best production through week 8 would be 14 ppr fantasy points.  That's is garbage/bust production from a player that has the immense talent that Gordon has.   14 fantasy points can be achieved through 4 recps, 40 yards and a 1td--it's not some amazing feat.   The only thing irrational about Gordon is people making excuse after excuse for a player that has a history of being a junkie, being morally bankrupt, and making insanely stupid decisions.  Gordon is not some victim of circumstance--he's a victim of his own unprofessionalism and stupidity. Let's not forget this is the same guy that while suspended chose to party and do drugs with Manziel while abandoning his own child and the mother of his child.  

He isn't superman.  He isn't unplayable either.  Seems you have a ton of bitterness towards Soulfly. Or someone.   

No--he isn't Superman--nobody is.   While he might be "playable"--he is far from trustworthy as a fantasy player.  I guarantee you that when he does have his first big game this season--he will be on the benches of many of his owners fantasy teams.  Even the games where he has produced a little this season have been insanely fortunate.   Am I saying he's destined to be garbage all year? No.  I'm saying that objectively he's a very upside player that has been a huge disappointment and a bust up to this point.  As a Gordon owner all season--I get very annoyed and salty when people try to convince me that he's somehow paid off.  He has not come close to paying off--and virtually every reason why he has underperformed this season is a result of his own stupidity and decision making.  I have no bitterness towards Soulfly. I find his posts to be humorous and I think that he generally adds a lot to the forums.  However--a post stating that the Pats have gone 5-0 largely in part due to Gordon is assinine.  It's nothing more than an attempt for him to save a little face for refusing to be objective about Gordon for the last couple of seasons.   He can say that kind of garbage all that he wants. Responding and countering to a ridiculous statement is far different than being bitter towards somebody.  It's called having a different point of view.  
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Bazinga! said:
Here are some more facts.  The last time Gordon was a major factor in Fantasy Football

D Murray, J Charles, M Forte were top 5 backs. 

K Moreno, Eddie Lacy and R Bush put up top 10 rb numbers

C Johnson put up rb1 numbers

R. Mathews, MJD, Fred Jackson and even Z Stacey were fantasy relevant putting up rb2 numbers

Facts ARE delicious
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:lol:

Another fact: Demarco Murray, Jamaal Charles, Matt Forte, Knowshon Moreno, Eddie Lacy, Reggie Bush, Calvin Johnson, Ryan Matthews, Maurice Jones-Drew, Fred Jackson & Zac Stacey combined will all be outscored by Josh Gordon in 2018.

 
I had no illusions that Josh Gordon would put up 2013 Flash numbers. And I'll be the first to admit disappointment in Gordon's fantasy production this year.

Drafted him at 6.12 (redraft, 12 team, super-flex, ppr, wr/te combined) as my #2 WR but I immediately backed him up at 7.01 with Jimmy Graham. Well, after 8 games for Graham and 6 for Gordon, they are both putting up 8 ppg (WR/TE 5 numbers). Frankly I am more disappointed in Graham, at least he didn't change teams in-season.

Gordon would have to put up an additional 5.4ppg to qualify as a WR2 in my league RoS. Some combination of 5.4 catches, 81 yards and 0.9 TDs MORE than his current rate of 3 catches, 47 yards and 0.33 TD per game would make that happen in my league. Certainly attainable buy not a gimme.

I was thrilled for him when New England traded for him (and I despise New England with passion) but I recognized that, despite the upgrade all around, it immediately made him a late season play at best in magic football.

I think he has immediately and demonstrably made New England a better team. Hopefully for us magic football types the statistical production ramps up soon.

Either way I'm happy for Gordon and will continue to root for him, and take my lumps in here with a smile.

 
I can't believe Gordon won't be 28 years old until April 2019.

#iwanttobelieve #neverforget #it'scoming #he'llsaveeveryoneofus

 
Chaka said:
I had no illusions that Josh Gordon would put up 2013 Flash numbers. And I'll be the first to admit disappointment in Gordon's fantasy production this year.

Drafted him at 6.12 (redraft, 12 team, super-flex, ppr, wr/te combined) as my #2 WR but I immediately backed him up at 7.01 with Jimmy Graham. Well, after 8 games for Graham and 6 for Gordon, they are both putting up 8 ppg (WR/TE 5 numbers). Frankly I am more disappointed in Graham, at least he didn't change teams in-season.

Gordon would have to put up an additional 5.4ppg to qualify as a WR2 in my league RoS. Some combination of 5.4 catches, 81 yards and 0.9 TDs MORE than his current rate of 3 catches, 47 yards and 0.33 TD per game would make that happen in my league. Certainly attainable buy not a gimme.

I was thrilled for him when New England traded for him (and I despise New England with passion) but I recognized that, despite the upgrade all around, it immediately made him a late season play at best in magic football.

I think he has immediately and demonstrably made New England a better team. Hopefully for us magic football types the statistical production ramps up soon.

Either way I'm happy for Gordon and will continue to root for him, and take my lumps in here with a smile.
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Just wondering--as where you draft him has a direct effect on what your happiness level and expectations are of him.  In PPR leagues-Gordon's ADP was 50--which puts him late 4th-early 5th in a 12 team league.   Most people who drafted Gordon did not have the luxury of waiting until the late 6th early 7th.   Hypothetically--if you had drafted him at 4.12-5.1 in a PPR league--what would your happiness level be?   Not trolling--just curious.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Just wondering--as where you draft him has a direct effect on what your happiness level and expectations are of him.  In PPR leagues-Gordon's ADP was 50--which puts him late 4th-early 5th in a 12 team league.   Most people who drafted Gordon did not have the luxury of waiting until the late 6th early 7th.   Hypothetically--if you had drafted him at 4.12-5.1 in a PPR league--what would your happiness level be?   Not trolling--just curious.  
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I don't think that has any impact whatsoever because league parameters impact all WRs equally. 

The question is if he is really a significant bust considering the widely understood risk associated with him that isn't associated with other players. 

In my draft he was the 26th WR/TE off the board (high WR3 value). He has clearly been a big disappointment but he is hardly alone among the other players drafted at his position and virtually all of them didn't have the same risk associated as Gordon.

So, no.

 
FBG Moderator said:
Don't insult other posters. Sorry but not much time to play games with you in this. Be way cooler if you come back. 
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 I am amazed that anything said after @Joe Bryant warning post last week was would warrant any vacation, let alone the threat of a permanent one.

Spelljammer? Seriously? That's an insult?

Did @Joe Bryant just offer you this position? Because this feels like massive overreach.

@BassNBrew, @Bazinga! What do you guys think? Was anything @Soulfly3 has posted since @Joe Bryant posted his warning honestly worthy of a banning?

Joe?

 
Chaka said:
 I am amazed that anything said after @Joe Bryant warning post last week was would warrant any vacation, let alone the threat of a permanent one.

Spelljammer? Seriously? That's an insult?

Did @Joe Bryant just offer you this position? Because this feels like massive overreach.

@BassNBrew, @Bazinga! What do you guys think? Was anything @Soulfly3 has posted since @Joe Bryant posted his warning honestly worthy of a banning?

Joe?
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I have to agree.  The guy is normally a punching bag and you ban HIM?

 
Hairy Snowman said:
I have to agree.  The guy is normally a punching bag and you ban HIM?
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I agree--I don't think what he said was very insulting.  However--I do think that him making another comment after the moderator clearly told him to stop after the first one was in poor behavior.   I don't think it was the content that got him suspended--it was blatantly disregarding the staff that did.  Hopefully it's nothing more than a brief timeout as it certainly doesn't deserve more than that. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I agree--I don't think what he said was very insulting.  However--I do think that him making another comment after the moderator clearly told him to stop after the first one was in poor behavior.   I don't think it was the content that got him suspended--it was blatantly disregarding the staff that did.  Hopefully it's nothing more than a brief timeout as it certainly doesn't deserve more than that. 
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Disagree. It was a cheeky (at worst) response to @Bazinga! commenting on what happened five years ago.

Both of them were joking IMO. @Bazinga! what are your thoughts?

 
Chaka said:
 I am amazed that anything said after @Joe Bryant warning post last week was would warrant any vacation, let alone the threat of a permanent one.

Spelljammer? Seriously? That's an insult?

Did @Joe Bryant just offer you this position? Because this feels like massive overreach.

@BassNBrew, @Bazinga! What do you guys think? Was anything @Soulfly3 has posted since @Joe Bryant posted his warning honestly worthy of a banning?

Joe?
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Personally I think that if soulfly isn’t around that Gordon will have a good game. Bazinga predicting good numbers too.  Stars are aligning 

personally don’t think he should be gone but he has mocked several people in the past who have done nothing but provide excellent ff guidance. This could be a lifetime achievement deal

eta he should be more like you in posting style

 
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BassNBrew said:
Personally I think that if soulfly isn’t around that Gordon will have a good game. Bazinga predicting good numbers too.  Stars are aligning 

personally don’t think he should be gone but he has mocked several people in the past who have done nothing but provide excellent ff guidance. This could be a lifetime achievement deal

eta he should be more like you in posting style
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Thanks for that but, again ,this isn't about Gordon hype now or in the past.

I am pretty sure you know that magic football message board posts don't impact real world football statistics (IMO God doesn't care who wins a sporting event YMMV).

@Soulfly3 has been over the top in here in the past but so have I (amiright?!?!). But he has seldom, if ever, been overtly insulting certainly not compared to others.

Regardless, the post that got him banned was entirely harmless IMO. Do you honestly think it was bad in any context? Even coming from @Soulfly3?

 
Bucky86 said:
The moderation overreaction has reached the Shark Pool? :mellow:  

Cool board.
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There was a comment in here in the last page or two along the lines of "please don't make any jokes" or "please don't post anything funny, we have to be serious in here."

:mellow:

 
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Otis said:
There was a comment in here in the last page or two along the lines of "please don't make any jokes" or "please don't post anything funny, we have to be serious in here."

:mellow:
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Yes there was, I referenced it several times. It was followed by several @Bazinga! posts that I'm going to say, and correct me if I'm wrong zinga, were not entirely serious. @Soulfly3's posts were certainly no worse than those.

This was a bad banning, plain and simple.

 
Bazinga! said:
Here are some more facts.  The last time Gordon was a major factor in Fantasy Football

D Murray, J Charles, M Forte were top 5 backs. 

K Moreno, Eddie Lacy and R Bush put up top 10 rb numbers

C Johnson put up rb1 numbers

R. Mathews, MJD, Fred Jackson and even Z Stacey were fantasy relevant putting up rb2 numbers

Facts ARE delicious
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Facts that are cherry-picked are especially delicious

 
Wow Soulfly was banned?  I assume the offending post was clipped too, because I can’t fathom anything posted in the last 24 hours earning a ban?

shame, because Soulfly has made this thread fun. 

 
Bazinga! said:
I have been suspended for less.  I would prefer we are more thick skinned in here but Joe and staff set a standard and drew a line and he clearly crossed it.  He wasn't talking football be was just trying to insult me and staff has clearly asked us not to do that.  Their board their rules.
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The only insult we're going to witness this weekend will be Gordon's on the Packer defense.

Plugging him in now over Thielen, Thomas and Hill.

God Bless America, Soul Fly and the Cleveland Browns.

 
Bazinga! said:
My post was making a point.  It was illustrating how long it has been and how much has changed since Gordon was relevant.  Soulfy didnt post anything but insults directed at me.  You are very biased.  I didnt see you coming to my defense when I was suspended for basically the same thing
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I was referring to your posts immediately following @Joe Bryant's warning.

I am still not sure how Souljammer, or whatever is an insult. I have no idea what it means so maybe I'm wrong.

 
I really like Gordon today.

People are going to just start leaving if they're going to want everyone to be super nice passive personalities. This isn't a blue eyed-blonde hair society here. 

 
Slider said:
I really like Gordon today.

People are going to just start leaving if they're going to want everyone to be super nice passive personalities. This isn't a blue eyed-blonde hair society here. 
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It is one thing if you are insulting an immutable characteristic.  He was ragging on the hyperbolic reactions to Gordon.  It was fair to say that the comment that was left was ancient history.  That he hadn't been suspended in two years.  He was ok to point out that IHO the poster was living in Gordon's past.  The D&D reference wasn't that horrible. If that offends you, I have to teach you this one ditty about being rubber and the other person being glue....

ETA What is not to like about Gordon today.  Hope he is feeling healthier.  He is due for a TD, but I think Gronk is going to have a good game.  May snake his TD this week.

 
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Otis said:
Wow Soulfly was banned?  I assume the offending post was clipped too, because I can’t fathom anything posted in the last 24 hours earning a ban?

shame, because Soulfly has made this thread fun. 
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Agreed.

Also, I assume Bazinga! is the niece/nephew of a Mod? He/she seems to be the one flinging insults, no?

Soulfly was all schtick... I think we all got that. Maybe as you said though the "final straw" comment has been deleted?

Got Gordon in this week (Diggs not answering the bell)... hoping for a great game tonight... LOT'S OF POINTS!

 
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Shifting the focus in this thread back to discussing Josh Gordon’s production outlook in the game tonight.

  • According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Gronk is in legitimate danger of missing Sunday night's game against Green Bay.
  • ESPN's Adam Schefter reports "there is concern"  Michel will miss tonight's game.
  • Edelman (ankle) practiced in limited fashion on Thursday and Friday, so his "questionable" designation doesn't seem like anything to worry about. 
  • Gordon (hamstring) has been "questionable" for every Patriots game this season, but he's never been in serious danger of missing action. 
With Gronk likely to miss this game, there should be a few more passing targets in Gordon’s direction. The Vegas O/U is currently at 56.5 indicating a high scoring game.

 
NFL Week 9 WR/CB Matchups: Will Julio Jones Finally Score vs. Josh Norman?

Excerpt:

Patriots WRs Julian Edelman and Josh Gordon vs. Packers

The Packers enjoyed a breakout game of sorts in the secondary during their Week 8 loss to the Rams. First-rounder Jaire Alexander, last year’s second-rounder Kevin King and 35-year-old Tramon Williams held Brandin Cooks and Robert Woods to respective 3-74-0 and 5-70-0 lines.

The Packers’ decision to trade Ha-Ha Clinton Dix (PFF’s No. 5 overall safety) was surprising to say the least, but Green Bay’s secondary is still at least in a good place at cornerback. The question is whether it’s good enough to survive a matchup in Foxborough with Brady and the Patriots’ fourth-ranked scoring offense.

Gordon leads the Pats in air yards since arriving in New England, but he’s been a distant third option in Brady’s pecking order since Edelman’s return.

Patriots players with double-digit targets in Weeks 5-8

James White: 44

Edelman: 34

Gordon: 26

Rob Gronkowski: 19

Chris Hogan: 17

Gordon has flashed during his brief time with the Patriots, but joins Kelvin Benjamin, Brandon Marshall, Allen Hurns and Chad Williams as the league’s only wide receivers averaging fewer than two yards of separation per target.
Click to expand...

 
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