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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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I am benching JG this week in favor or Mark Andrews in my WR/TE PPR spot. I need to see more before he goes back in. I foresee about 3 for 60 yards this week, but I would love for him to prove me wrong and go 7 for 125 and a TD. 

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1 hour ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

Fake News

6:04 in the clip.

If that's a wobbly duck I'm a monkey's uncle.

 

That throw @3:12 over two DB's to Dorsett was pretty good.
Brady isn't throwing darts but his placement and timing for
the longer passes is better than anything we've seen for a while.
It could be the WR's timing is now in synch.

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I'm predicting a very good week.  Soulfly has disappeared in shame once again which usually means good things for Gordon.

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3 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

He's had 9 targets so far . . . not that is anything more than a consolation prize. He's probably going to see limited targets and will need to survive on big plays and TD's to have real fantasy value.

Sorry, PFF has seven. 

Yahoo has nine. 

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As a JG owner not really happy with the AB signing.  I thought Gordon was primed for a solid year, that being said with AB's diva problems and Edelman's injury history I think theres still a good chance Gordon gets his. 

Then again Gordon could go out and buy and oz and say screw the NFL and NE

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BB changes his game plan and targets different players every week. Gordon is my WR3 but I will seriously consider selling him high after "his" week and his value temporarily goes up.

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IMO, Josh Gordon has gone from a guy that when started was considered "low risk, low reward" by Pro Football Focus to variance out the ying and earned a "high risk, low reward" moniker.

I personally think that he is now vastly overvalued and is straight up candidate for the chopping block if one can't work a doable trade.

Talk me down.

Edited by rockaction

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Just now, rockaction said:

IMO, Josh Gordon has gone from a guy that when started is considered "low risk, low reward" by Pro Football Focus to variance out the ying.

I personally think that he is now vastly overvalued and is straight up candidate for the chopping block if one can't work a doable trade.

Talk me down.

The counter argument will be that his stock will go up once AB is watching from home (for people that subscribe to that narrative). Or Edelman could get hurt. But league mates should be aware that his upside is limited, so not sure if he carries any trade value. He's probably a fantasy JAG as long as he is the WR3 for NE (maybe even WR4 on NE). There may be better options on the waiver wire depending on the league. As others have mentioned, maybe wait for him to have a week where his number is called a lot and puts up big totals and then move him.

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

IMO, Josh Gordon has gone from a guy that when started was considered "low risk, low reward" by Pro Football Focus to variance out the ying and earned a "high risk, low reward" moniker.

I personally think that he is now vastly overvalued and is straight up candidate for the chopping block if one can't work a doable trade.

Talk me down.

Talk you down?

Look at the AB fiasco.......He very well could get suspended.

Look at Julian Edelman and his injury history.....guy gets beaten up across the middle on his short routes.

 

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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'm sort of surprised that the predictions (other than FBG) about his performance are as high as they are. That's causing a bit of dissonance, too. Like, am I wrong here? Do not reason and past performance and some obvious tea leaves tell me all I need to know?

They do.

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23 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

I'm predicting a very good week.  Soulfly has disappeared in shame once again which usually means good things for Gordon.

you're 0/2 on your last 2 attempts. yikes.

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1 minute ago, Soulfly3 said:

you're 0/2 on your last 2 attempts. yikes.

AB release is a good thing for Gordon

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So how bad, how decrepit, how run of the mill is Josh Gordon now? 

Thats right Gordon Nation

Lock n Load vs the Jets!!!

A gadget you say? An afterthought? The leftovers at the bottom of a milkshake blender? 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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joshua caleb gordon is a new england patriot. an active player on the best team in the nfl.

a superbowl champion.

put some respect on his name.

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Well, I dumped him after the AB signing, but I got to him first on the open waivers as I got the news of AB being cut!  Here we go!

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Let’s talk about how DBs bounce off this guy like he’s made of marble or stone. Let’s go back and look at that short reception in the red zone he plowed into the end zone during Week 1...yeah let’s talk about how limited the Pats are now.

He is clearly with the right organization to utilize his special skills and provide a safe working environment for him to thrive 

I expect a career day on Sunday...CAREER!!!

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Let’s talk about how DBs bounce off this guy like he’s made of marble or stone. Let’s go back and look at that short reception in the red zone he plowed into the end zone during Week 1...yeah let’s talk about how limited the Pats are now.

He is clearly with the right organization to utilize his special skills and provide a safe working environment for him to thrive 

I expect a career day on Sunday...CAREER!!!

Well said.  6'4" 240 lbs.  He's WR GRONK.  Time to start throwin fools out the club.

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14 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

joshua caleb gordon is a new england patriot. an active player on the best team in the nfl.

a superbowl champion.

put some respect on his name.

Soulfly for president.  We got your back.

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43 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Let’s talk about how DBs bounce off this guy like he’s made of marble or stone. Let’s go back and look at that short reception in the red zone he plowed into the end zone during Week 1...yeah let’s talk about how limited the Pats are now.

He is clearly with the right organization to utilize his special skills and provide a safe working environment for him to thrive 

I expect a career day on Sunday...CAREER!!!

I expect you may be wrong. Brady's OL is currently a mess. If nothing else, the Jets can bring pressure. I project some offensive struggles for NE and a lot of short underneath passes so Tom can get the ball out quickly. I am not sure that plays to the strength of Gordon. Maybe a couple of shots over the top . . . but those may go to Dorsett. The Pats don't need to be risking much on offense to beat the Jets. Like Miami, ball control, run the clock, let the defense do their thing, maybe dial up the offense if they have to, but otherwise I don't see NE going full throttle in this one.

Edited by Anarchy99
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1 minute ago, Soulfly3 said:

^^ guessing you haven't seen how DOMINANT gordon is on short crossing routes?

If by short crossing routes you mean pick plays, then sure, I agree with you. But Dorsett and Edelman are good at those too.

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I expect a bigger day out of Gordon this week now.  Probably 100+ yards and 1 TD.  

I expect Gordon to become more integrated with the offense later in the season.  The Pats are still in preseason mode. 

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

I expect a bigger day out of Gordon this week now.  Probably 100+ yards and 1 TD.  

I expect Gordon to become more integrated with the offense later in the season.  The Pats are still in preseason mode. 

This right here.

Gordon may be nothing more than a PPG WR3 for the first half of the season. But come fantasy stretch and playoff time, I'm expecting him to be unleashed into the fantasy PPG WR1 that we all know he his.

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I'm still thinking about dumping Gordon and picking up Dorsett, who is 7-7 or 7-8, has an aDOT of over twenty and a catch rate of about 87%.

He's also faster than Gordon.

What say the thread?

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31 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I expect you may be wrong. Brady's OL is currently a mess. If nothing else, the Jets can bring pressure. I project some offensive struggles for NE and a lot of short underneath passes so Tom can get the ball out quickly. I am not sure that plays to the strength of Gordon. Maybe a couple of shots over the top . . . but those may go to Dorsett. The Pats don't need to be risking much on offense to beat the Jets. Like Miami, ball control, run the clock, let the defense do their thing, maybe dial up the offense if they have to, but otherwise I don't see NE going full throttle in this one.

I agree with you here. Half throttle probably wins this game by 14. This is a smash spot for Edelman, not Gordon. 

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Just now, rockaction said:

I'm still thinking about dumping Gordon and picking up Dorsett, who is 7-7 or 7-8, has an aDOT of over twenty and a catch rate of about 87%.

He's also faster than Gordon.

What say the thread?

I just posted in the Dorsett thread. Dorsett when Edelman around has been limited to 4 or 5 targets a game. He maxed those out Week 1 (almost 100 yards and 2 TD). He also has been known to have to settle for 3 catches and 25 or 30 yards. NE usually has two reliable receiving threats and a 3rd guy that is active. In recent season, those were Edelman and Gronk with White as another option. One year Edelman was out but Cooks slid in instead. IMO, without Gronk, Edelman has been the chess piece to own. Best guess in PPR leagues, Edelman is on the fantasy WR 1/2 bubble, Gordon a WR 3, and Dorsett a WR 4. Given that NE has a cupcake schedule for another month and a half, I doubt we see all three guys having big weeks the same week. 

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I just posted in the Dorsett thread. Dorsett when Edelman around has been limited to 4 or 5 targets a game. He maxed those out Week 1 (almost 100 yards and 2 TD). He also has been known to have to settle for 3 catches and 25 or 30 yards. NE usually has two reliable receiving threats and a 3rd guy that is active. In recent season, those were Edelman and Gronk with White as another option. One year Edelman was out but Cooks slid in instead. IMO, without Gronk, Edelman has been the chess piece to own. Best guess in PPR leagues, Edelman is on the fantasy WR 1/2 bubble, Gordon a WR 3, and Dorsett a WR 4. Given that NE has a cupcake schedule for another month and a half, I doubt we see all three guys having big weeks the same week. 

Yeah, I should state that it's partly in schtick that I mention Dorsett -- your exact reasoning, actually. He's quite good, though, at the game of football. 

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10 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I just posted in the Dorsett thread. Dorsett when Edelman around has been limited to 4 or 5 targets a game. He maxed those out Week 1 (almost 100 yards and 2 TD). He also has been known to have to settle for 3 catches and 25 or 30 yards. NE usually has two reliable receiving threats and a 3rd guy that is active. In recent season, those were Edelman and Gronk with White as another option. One year Edelman was out but Cooks slid in instead. IMO, without Gronk, Edelman has been the chess piece to own. Best guess in PPR leagues, Edelman is on the fantasy WR 1/2 bubble, Gordon a WR 3, and Dorsett a WR 4. Given that NE has a cupcake schedule for another month and a half, I doubt we see all three guys having big weeks the same week. 

Which is it?

He's either really talented in your opinion or he isn't. Some of this is starting to feel like a moral compass about his off field issues in Cleveland. 

So he won't do anything until the schedule gets tougher and then when the Pats really really really need him, he might produce?

AB is gone and you don't seem to want to move the needle a little bit here, that's a mistake IMO. 

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Gordon will easily surpass 1,000 yds and 10 TDs, in his sleep if he can stay off the peace pipe and especially with AB out of the picture.

I'm signing it with my lightsaber 😉 

James White owners have to be breathing a sigh of relief with AB gone. 

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2 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

James White owners have to be breathing a sigh of relief with AB gone. 

Meh - I say this as someone who just dropped him, so some bitterness - but the RB situation is tough to figure out with NE.  Its not worth the headache trying to figure out what the game plan might be in any given week.  Patriots will be playing with a lead much more often than not this year - so I think Michel and Burkhead have more value even in PPR.

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Meh - I say this as someone who just dropped him, so some bitterness - but the RB situation is tough to figure out with NE.  Its not worth the headache trying to figure out what the game plan might be in any given week.  Patriots will be playing with a lead much more often than not this year - so I think Michel and Burkhead have more value even in PPR.

The way Brady was willing it to White in the middle of a 36-0 blowout at the time late 4th...I'm not so sure I agree with you Sinn and I would like to but I think White owners have a much better chance to see stats with AB gone. Edelman benefits a lot too but they have always had these roles...Gordon allows for the Gronk retirement to not sting as much IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Which is it?

He's either really talented in your opinion or he isn't. Some of this is starting to feel like a moral compass about his off field issues in Cleveland. 

So he won't do anything until the schedule gets tougher and then when the Pats really really really need him, he might produce?

AB is gone and you don't seem to want to move the needle a little bit here, that's a mistake IMO. 

Let's start over. JG is talented. I just don't think the 2019 version is the 2013 version. Certainly I don't think the 2019 Patriots are the 2013 Browns. I've posted all this already but let's try it again. The Browns had no running game, no other reliable receiving targets, a terrible defense, and fed Gordon the ball as he averaged almost 12 targets a game. He got a lot of production in garbage time when the Browns had to pass, pass, pass to try to stay competitive.

The 2019 Patriots have plenty of receiving options, will have a good running game (provided they don't lose an OL man every game), they have a phenomenal defense, and they won't be losing much and forced to pass the entire game. Edelman goes back to the head of the class. White goes back to being a key cog in the offense. 

Even in their 2007 season, NE got great numbers from Moss and Welker. But they didn't use their RBs much at all.The 2007 and 2019 teams both mostly ignore(d) the TE position. And that was Brady in his prime. The current version is still a top QB, but TB at 30 likely had more to offer.

I don't see Gordon getting the target rate he had in Cleveland, Edelman will see a boatload of targets, White will go back to 70 or 80 receptions, Burkhead gets some looks, Dorsett gets 80-90 targets, and Gordon will be inconsistently good for NE. I still think NE becomes more of a running team than a passing team, they take their time and sit on leads, they let their defense do the heavy lifting, and then are happy to leave the stadium with a W. Especially with an easy schedule and a banged up OL at the moment.

Unless you don't think Edelman plays 16 games (which is a reasonable thought) or that he won't reach 1,000 yards if he does (which seems less reasonable), NE has had 2 players go over 1,000 receiving yards in the same season in 2017, 2011, 2009, and 2007. That's about 20-25% of the time with Brady playing QB.

That's me just reading the tea leaves. Other people drink coffee, so what do I know?

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11 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Meh - I say this as someone who just dropped him, so some bitterness - but the RB situation is tough to figure out with NE.  Its not worth the headache trying to figure out what the game plan might be in any given week.  Patriots will be playing with a lead much more often than not this year - so I think Michel and Burkhead have more value even in PPR.

Not so sure that's the case anymore. Michel has been pretty steady - when healthy... steadily in that 15-20 carry bracket (maybe a tick under).

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I forgot to mention that Harry is also waiting in the wings and will be back when the NE schedule gets tough. He may not be a huge contributor, but he should still have a role and take targets away from others. 

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My crystal ball is Edelman and White become go to underneath lots of targets however after those two guys Gordon becomes a super threat to break a takle and take one to the house on almost any reception and you can't say that about very many WRs. I haven't seen anything to make me believe the 2019 version cannot do what the 2013 version can do physically but I understand Cleveland was a different situation. New England would not have gone to the lengths they have gone to if this kid didn't have a lot of talent, and he's no kid now. 

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