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WR Josh Gordon, KC (14 Viewers)

Bronco Billy said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bronco Billy said:
How are we bringing the DUI into the current appeal on the alleged missed drug test? The DUI is a subsequent event and should have no bearing on that.

It will likely merit its own punishment in a separate future event, I'd guess. At the least it contributes to a continued I-don't-give-a-#### pattern of behavior that I'm guessing the league will frown on.
Click to expand...
Well it's not a court of law. I would not put it past the NFL to "take notice" of this when evaluating Gordon's claims, and also consider it separately. I'm guessing indefinite suspension is a real possibility at this point?
Click to expand...
I agree, but this is also about due process. I'd be shocked if the NFLPA would agree to have subsequent events affect disposition of current disciplinary matters. They do have lawyers also.
Click to expand...
The DUI can't be used officially but it's definitely in the back of the head over whoever makes the decision. If Gordon has a strong case he'll win, but if it's close I expect him to lose.

 
This thread & Josh Gordon :tfp:

His season is done, he will most likely receive an indefinite suspension with the opportunity to reinstate next season... If I was as dumb as him, I'd party it up until Octoberish, bc that is prob his cutoff before another arrest will jeopardize 2015.

 
amnesiac said:
do we know for a fact that it is a year suspension (or indefinite suspension) that he is appealing?

or is that just the assumption based on earlier leaks/rumors?
Click to expand...
For all we know he could have been appealing an 8 game ban. For all we know this could be a Von Miller type situation where a successfully appealed suspension gets bumped from 4 to 6 or from 6 to 8 for subsequent personal conduct.

All we know is that he keeps effing up and is appealing. That's it!

 
Brewtown said:
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.

He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
Well, here's another fact that you need to deal with: Goodell doesn't need to see Gordon to get off or get convicted to factor this arrest into his appeal decison.You want to keep harping that it was "only" a .09, fine. But you also need to accept this fact: this arrest isn't good for his appeal.
Click to expand...
If the arrest goes away it is a non issue.

He blew a .09 and it may go away... If the charges go away then Goodell is going to take them into consideration??

If they go away - they go away...
Click to expand...
First-you said you have had several relatives deal with DUI's. They don't "go away" in less than a month. So, even if they "go away," Goodell will have made his decision on the appeal prior to that.

Second-Please try to read carefully. Goodell's decision isn't based on whether Gordon gets convicted of this DUI or not. Gordon is appealing, essentially asking for a reduced "sentence," if you will. In order to get some leniency, Goodell will likely want to believe that this issue won't come up again. Getting stopped with weed in his car, then arrested for DUI, then bailed out by a felon who is a suspected drug dealer are not things that will give Goodell confidence that this won't continue to be an issue. Therefore, they won't lead Goodell to be lenient.

You said you're dealing with facts, then deal with all the facts, not just the one(s) that support your (wrong) viewpoint.

 
Adam Harstad said:
Skeletore Eh said:
You guys defending duis and saying .08 is bs are not only embarrassing yourselves but you may as well be carrying around an "I'm a moron sign"

Try and tell us how your reaction time at .08 is just as fast as sober. Try and tell us how your ability to operative a vehicle at .08 is just as strong as your ability sober. Then go tell that to the countless number of husbands that lost wives to people driving at .08. Or all the parents that have lost children.

Bottom line is Gordon had the world in his fingertips and smoked, drank and drove it away. He's an immature idiot. And anyone defending drinking after driving at any bac is too.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to defend DUIs, but I will certainly say that DUIs are every bit as much of a societal failure as an individual failure. Restaurants make most of their money off of their liquor licenses, so every time anyone goes out to dinner, they get upsold on alcoholic beverages- everyone in the party, even when clearly one member must be the person responsible for driving. I have yet to hear of a restaurant that refused to serve anyone enough alcohol to get them over the legal limit. Movies glamorize situations like going out for drinks with friends that are almost certain to result in someone driving while over the legal limit. Often workplaces will have office happy hours, despite the fact that nearly every person who attends will be driving himself or herself. Avoiding these social events often carry negative repercussions to one's career prospects, and anyone who attends is the subject of peer pressure (much of it implicit) to consume alcohol.

Obviously no one forces anyone to drink and drive, but we certainly live in a society that glamorizes the processes that LEAD to a DUI, and where restaurants have a strong financial incentive to engage in behaviors that maximize the number of people driving while intoxicated. I even agree that, if everyone who ever drove while over the legal limit was caught and ticketed, we'd be looking at maybe 80% of the country with DUIs on their record. If we really want to clean up our DUI problem, we should probably spend less time worrying about where we're setting the legal limit and spend more time trying to discourage the situations that lead to people feeling like it's an acceptable idea to drink (any amount at all) and drive in the first place.
Click to expand...
This has to be one of the dumbest thing's I've ever read here at FBG.

This is like saying that the woman was asking to be raped because she was dressed the wrong way.

Wow, and you're on Staff?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
cstu said:
Former teammate D'Qwell Jackson tweeted the following Saturday: "If you're close to Josh Gordon please help this kid, it's not about football anymore it's about picking up the pieces of his life."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
From a former teammate. Obviously much more going on than just a mistake in judgement, which makes all the discussion about "it was just .09" moot.
Click to expand...
In the span of little over a year:

- blew off a court appearance for speeding

- ticketed for speeding, 98 in a 60

- suspended for codeine

- missed/failed a drug test

- ticketed for speeding in a car smelling of marijuana enough for the officer to search the car, a passenger charged with marijuana possession

- arrested for DUI

- bailed out by a drug dealer

 
Bronco Billy said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bronco Billy said:
How are we bringing the DUI into the current appeal on the alleged missed drug test? The DUI is a subsequent event and should have no bearing on that.

It will likely merit its own punishment in a separate future event, I'd guess. At the least it contributes to a continued I-don't-give-a-#### pattern of behavior that I'm guessing the league will frown on.
Click to expand...
Well it's not a court of law. I would not put it past the NFL to "take notice" of this when evaluating Gordon's claims, and also consider it separately. I'm guessing indefinite suspension is a real possibility at this point?
Click to expand...
I agree, but this is also about due process. I'd be shocked if the NFLPA would agree to have subsequent events affect disposition of current disciplinary matters. They do have lawyers also.
Click to expand...
Its been my contention all along that the NFL suspends players under the PCP because within that policy it gives the conduct standard that players and coaches, etc, are held accountable to and under that one policy it lists subtances. I think the substane abuse policy is under the PCP and that players are not suspended under that policy but under the PCP which covers all other potential circumstances because they are all covered under the PCP.

DUIs are handled separately under the substance abuse policy. Each violation is considered its own separate violation under the substance abuse policy so any previous violations from marijiuana are not added on under the substance abuse policy.

The two players who have already been banned for the 2014 season had more compelling circumstances than Josh Gordon since both of those guys had already been suspended twice and both had other mitigating circumstances that would be covered under the PCP.

I think the PCP is the policy that people should have been concentrating on all along since it covers everything and would take everything into account when considering dishing out punishment such as DUI's and speeding and in the case of Daryl Washington his arrest for assulting a woman while the NFL was considering his case and the previous PED suspension for Will Hill. Now people want to fry Josh Gordon for a DUI which is fine but its considered his first alchohol violation under the substance abuse policy which means it would not be considered a suspendable violation if you only look at the substance abuse policy.

 
Mr.Pack said:
Adam Harstad said:
Skeletore Eh said:
You guys defending duis and saying .08 is bs are not only embarrassing yourselves but you may as well be carrying around an "I'm a moron sign"

Try and tell us how your reaction time at .08 is just as fast as sober. Try and tell us how your ability to operative a vehicle at .08 is just as strong as your ability sober. Then go tell that to the countless number of husbands that lost wives to people driving at .08. Or all the parents that have lost children.

Bottom line is Gordon had the world in his fingertips and smoked, drank and drove it away. He's an immature idiot. And anyone defending drinking after driving at any bac is too.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to defend DUIs, but I will certainly say that DUIs are every bit as much of a societal failure as an individual failure. Restaurants make most of their money off of their liquor licenses, so every time anyone goes out to dinner, they get upsold on alcoholic beverages- everyone in the party, even when clearly one member must be the person responsible for driving. I have yet to hear of a restaurant that refused to serve anyone enough alcohol to get them over the legal limit. Movies glamorize situations like going out for drinks with friends that are almost certain to result in someone driving while over the legal limit. Often workplaces will have office happy hours, despite the fact that nearly every person who attends will be driving himself or herself. Avoiding these social events often carry negative repercussions to one's career prospects, and anyone who attends is the subject of peer pressure (much of it implicit) to consume alcohol.

Obviously no one forces anyone to drink and drive, but we certainly live in a society that glamorizes the processes that LEAD to a DUI, and where restaurants have a strong financial incentive to engage in behaviors that maximize the number of people driving while intoxicated. I even agree that, if everyone who ever drove while over the legal limit was caught and ticketed, we'd be looking at maybe 80% of the country with DUIs on their record. If we really want to clean up our DUI problem, we should probably spend less time worrying about where we're setting the legal limit and spend more time trying to discourage the situations that lead to people feeling like it's an acceptable idea to drink (any amount at all) and drive in the first place.
Click to expand...
This has to be one of the dumbest thing's I've ever read here at FBG.This is like saying that the woman was asking to be raped because she was dressed the wrong way.

Wow, and you're on Staff?
Click to expand...
He's not wrong. People shouldn't drink and drive but there's no denying that we have a society set up the gives a ;) to it as long as you never get caught.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
cstu said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
cstu said:
Former teammate D'Qwell Jackson tweeted the following Saturday: "If you're close to Josh Gordon please help this kid, it's not about football anymore it's about picking up the pieces of his life."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
From a former teammate. Obviously much more going on than just a mistake in judgement, which makes all the discussion about "it was just .09" moot.
Click to expand...
In the span of little over a year:

- blew off a court appearance for speeding

- ticketed for speeding, 98 in a 60

- suspended for codeine

- missed/failed a drug test

- ticketed for speeding in a car smelling of marijuana enough for the officer to search the car, a passenger charged with marijuana possession

- arrested for DUI

- bailed out by a drug dealer
Click to expand...
This isn't that bad a list (for a small-time crook).

 
Mr.Pack said:
Adam Harstad said:
Skeletore Eh said:
You guys defending duis and saying .08 is bs are not only embarrassing yourselves but you may as well be carrying around an "I'm a moron sign"

Try and tell us how your reaction time at .08 is just as fast as sober. Try and tell us how your ability to operative a vehicle at .08 is just as strong as your ability sober. Then go tell that to the countless number of husbands that lost wives to people driving at .08. Or all the parents that have lost children.

Bottom line is Gordon had the world in his fingertips and smoked, drank and drove it away. He's an immature idiot. And anyone defending drinking after driving at any bac is too.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to defend DUIs, but I will certainly say that DUIs are every bit as much of a societal failure as an individual failure. Restaurants make most of their money off of their liquor licenses, so every time anyone goes out to dinner, they get upsold on alcoholic beverages- everyone in the party, even when clearly one member must be the person responsible for driving. I have yet to hear of a restaurant that refused to serve anyone enough alcohol to get them over the legal limit. Movies glamorize situations like going out for drinks with friends that are almost certain to result in someone driving while over the legal limit. Often workplaces will have office happy hours, despite the fact that nearly every person who attends will be driving himself or herself. Avoiding these social events often carry negative repercussions to one's career prospects, and anyone who attends is the subject of peer pressure (much of it implicit) to consume alcohol.

Obviously no one forces anyone to drink and drive, but we certainly live in a society that glamorizes the processes that LEAD to a DUI, and where restaurants have a strong financial incentive to engage in behaviors that maximize the number of people driving while intoxicated. I even agree that, if everyone who ever drove while over the legal limit was caught and ticketed, we'd be looking at maybe 80% of the country with DUIs on their record. If we really want to clean up our DUI problem, we should probably spend less time worrying about where we're setting the legal limit and spend more time trying to discourage the situations that lead to people feeling like it's an acceptable idea to drink (any amount at all) and drive in the first place.
Click to expand...
This has to be one of the dumbest thing's I've ever read here at FBG.

This is like saying that the woman was asking to be raped because she was dressed the wrong way.

Wow, and you're on Staff?
Click to expand...
You either read what he posted incorrectly, or come to some strange conclusions about what he said because he's 100% accurate. He's not saying society is at fault for Gordon being an idiot, just that society has integrated drinking with recreation profusely.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bracie Smathers said:
Bronco Billy said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bronco Billy said:
How are we bringing the DUI into the current appeal on the alleged missed drug test? The DUI is a subsequent event and should have no bearing on that.

It will likely merit its own punishment in a separate future event, I'd guess. At the least it contributes to a continued I-don't-give-a-#### pattern of behavior that I'm guessing the league will frown on.
Click to expand...
Well it's not a court of law. I would not put it past the NFL to "take notice" of this when evaluating Gordon's claims, and also consider it separately. I'm guessing indefinite suspension is a real possibility at this point?
Click to expand...
I agree, but this is also about due process. I'd be shocked if the NFLPA would agree to have subsequent events affect disposition of current disciplinary matters. They do have lawyers also.
Click to expand...
Its been my contention all along that the NFL suspends players under the PCP because within that policy it gives the conduct standard that players and coaches, etc, are held accountable to and under that one policy it lists subtances. I think the substane abuse policy is under the PCP and that players are not suspended under that policy but under the PCP which covers all other potential circumstances because they are all covered under the PCP.DUIs are handled separately under the substance abuse policy. Each violation is considered its own separate violation under the substance abuse policy so any previous violations from marijiuana are not added on under the substance abuse policy.

The two players who have already been banned for the 2014 season had more compelling circumstances than Josh Gordon since both of those guys had already been suspended twice and both had other mitigating circumstances that would be covered under the PCP.

I think the PCP is the policy that people should have been concentrating on all along since it covers everything and would take everything into account when considering dishing out punishment such as DUI's and speeding and in the case of Daryl Washington his arrest for assulting a woman while the NFL was considering his case and the previous PED suspension for Will Hill. Now people want to fry Josh Gordon for a DUI which is fine but its considered his first alchohol violation under the substance abuse policy which means it would not be considered a suspendable violation if you only look at the substance abuse policy.
Click to expand...
Are you sure they are completely separate? If Gordon is already in Stage 3 for recreational drugs and assuming that alcohol becomes part of his testing then wouldn't a positive test for alcohol result in a suspension?

 
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.

He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
Seriously, you really should have stopped posting a long time ago.

Your ignorance is off the charts here.

 
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.

He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
Well, here's another fact that you need to deal with: Goodell doesn't need to see Gordon to get off or get convicted to factor this arrest into his appeal decison.You want to keep harping that it was "only" a .09, fine. But you also need to accept this fact: this arrest isn't good for his appeal.
Click to expand...
If the arrest goes away it is a non issue.

He blew a .09 and it may go away... If the charges go away then Goodell is going to take them into consideration??

If they go away - they go away...
Click to expand...
First-you said you have had several relatives deal with DUI's. They don't "go away" in less than a month. So, even if they "go away," Goodell will have made his decision on the appeal prior to that.Second-Please try to read carefully. Goodell's decision isn't based on whether Gordon gets convicted of this DUI or not. Gordon is appealing, essentially asking for a reduced "sentence," if you will. In order to get some leniency, Goodell will likely want to believe that this issue won't come up again. Getting stopped with weed in his car, then arrested for DUI, then bailed out by a felon who is a suspected drug dealer are not things that will give Goodell confidence that this won't continue to be an issue. Therefore, they won't lead Goodell to be lenient.

You said you're dealing with facts, then deal with all the facts, not just the one(s) that support your (wrong) viewpoint.
Click to expand...
In a righteous world if someone gets drunk driving charges thrown out or modified to something else then they go away (especially because he was .09).

The other stuff you are referring to (weed in car-supposedly wasn't his) may be a different issue....

I do not own Gordon in any league and have no personal tie to having him play again (other than seeing the best football players play NFL football). I just don't like the fact that people label a .09 drunk driver the same as a .18 going the wrong way on the freeway. I also am not a big fan of piling on people when they are going through some difficult times, self induced or otherwise.

Now get back on your high horse Curt Henning...

 
cstu said:
Mr.Pack said:
Adam Harstad said:
Skeletore Eh said:
You guys defending duis and saying .08 is bs are not only embarrassing yourselves but you may as well be carrying around an "I'm a moron sign"

Try and tell us how your reaction time at .08 is just as fast as sober. Try and tell us how your ability to operative a vehicle at .08 is just as strong as your ability sober. Then go tell that to the countless number of husbands that lost wives to people driving at .08. Or all the parents that have lost children.

Bottom line is Gordon had the world in his fingertips and smoked, drank and drove it away. He's an immature idiot. And anyone defending drinking after driving at any bac is too.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to defend DUIs, but I will certainly say that DUIs are every bit as much of a societal failure as an individual failure. Restaurants make most of their money off of their liquor licenses, so every time anyone goes out to dinner, they get upsold on alcoholic beverages- everyone in the party, even when clearly one member must be the person responsible for driving. I have yet to hear of a restaurant that refused to serve anyone enough alcohol to get them over the legal limit. Movies glamorize situations like going out for drinks with friends that are almost certain to result in someone driving while over the legal limit. Often workplaces will have office happy hours, despite the fact that nearly every person who attends will be driving himself or herself. Avoiding these social events often carry negative repercussions to one's career prospects, and anyone who attends is the subject of peer pressure (much of it implicit) to consume alcohol.

Obviously no one forces anyone to drink and drive, but we certainly live in a society that glamorizes the processes that LEAD to a DUI, and where restaurants have a strong financial incentive to engage in behaviors that maximize the number of people driving while intoxicated. I even agree that, if everyone who ever drove while over the legal limit was caught and ticketed, we'd be looking at maybe 80% of the country with DUIs on their record. If we really want to clean up our DUI problem, we should probably spend less time worrying about where we're setting the legal limit and spend more time trying to discourage the situations that lead to people feeling like it's an acceptable idea to drink (any amount at all) and drive in the first place.
Click to expand...
This has to be one of the dumbest thing's I've ever read here at FBG.This is like saying that the woman was asking to be raped because she was dressed the wrong way.

Wow, and you're on Staff?
Click to expand...
He's not wrong. People shouldn't drink and drive but there's no denying that we have a society set up the gives a ;) to it as long as you never get caught.
Click to expand...
You are correct. But his whole post was taking and throwing personal responsibility out the window and laying the blame at the feet of society, restaurants and bars.

It's the typical thought process in today's society, blame someone else for what happens.

 
He'll plead it down to wreckless op... Seen it happen multiple times. No one is saying he doesn't have issues but Ray Rice hasn't been suspended yet and he cold cocked his wife. Daryl Washington broke his SO's shoulder and is suspended under the substance abuse policy. His appeal may be a moot point now since he is now guilty by public scrutiny and he may very well get a year just so the league saves face even if he did have some sort of reasonable doubt for the failed test. People are being ridiculous though. No one said Washington is done in the league in his thread, no ones said Rice is done even though he has a far more questionable history of violence and stupidity than people know. He's 23. I hate to keep beating a dead horse but he's like a more talented version of Cris Carter. The best thing would be if the Browns cut him and stopped enabling him. That's when it's #### or quit time and he'll have to face the music.

 
It doesn't matter if he would have only blown a 0.6... Why the hell was he driving at all after drinking? His career hangs in the balance, he is under intense scrutiny... He has to make better decisions. If he knew he was going to drink, he should have planned accordingly and set up transportation. There is no excuse for taking that chance.

It's not about the difference between buzzed drivers and drunk drivers, it's about a man who cannot seem to get out of his own way. He should have called a cab, had a DD set up, anything but drive himself after drinking. I believe I've read the NFL has a service setup for this very thing. Then he didn't even have sense enough to stay around the speed limit.

His lack of regard makes it seem like there is no turning this thing around.

 
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
Well, here's another fact that you need to deal with: Goodell doesn't need to see Gordon to get off or get convicted to factor this arrest into his appeal decison.You want to keep harping that it was "only" a .09, fine. But you also need to accept this fact: this arrest isn't good for his appeal.
Click to expand...
If the arrest goes away it is a non issue.He blew a .09 and it may go away... If the charges go away then Goodell is going to take them into consideration??

If they go away - they go away...
Click to expand...
First-you said you have had several relatives deal with DUI's. They don't "go away" in less than a month. So, even if they "go away," Goodell will have made his decision on the appeal prior to that.Second-Please try to read carefully. Goodell's decision isn't based on whether Gordon gets convicted of this DUI or not. Gordon is appealing, essentially asking for a reduced "sentence," if you will. In order to get some leniency, Goodell will likely want to believe that this issue won't come up again. Getting stopped with weed in his car, then arrested for DUI, then bailed out by a felon who is a suspected drug dealer are not things that will give Goodell confidence that this won't continue to be an issue. Therefore, they won't lead Goodell to be lenient.

You said you're dealing with facts, then deal with all the facts, not just the one(s) that support your (wrong) viewpoint.
Click to expand...
Burden of proof is on the league. Goodell can't suspend him for acts he was not found guilty of.

 
cstu said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Bronco Billy said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bronco Billy said:
How are we bringing the DUI into the current appeal on the alleged missed drug test? The DUI is a subsequent event and should have no bearing on that.

It will likely merit its own punishment in a separate future event, I'd guess. At the least it contributes to a continued I-don't-give-a-#### pattern of behavior that I'm guessing the league will frown on.
Click to expand...
Well it's not a court of law. I would not put it past the NFL to "take notice" of this when evaluating Gordon's claims, and also consider it separately. I'm guessing indefinite suspension is a real possibility at this point?
Click to expand...
I agree, but this is also about due process. I'd be shocked if the NFLPA would agree to have subsequent events affect disposition of current disciplinary matters. They do have lawyers also.
Click to expand...
Its been my contention all along that the NFL suspends players under the PCP because within that policy it gives the conduct standard that players and coaches, etc, are held accountable to and under that one policy it lists subtances. I think the substane abuse policy is under the PCP and that players are not suspended under that policy but under the PCP which covers all other potential circumstances because they are all covered under the PCP.DUIs are handled separately under the substance abuse policy. Each violation is considered its own separate violation under the substance abuse policy so any previous violations from marijiuana are not added on under the substance abuse policy.

The two players who have already been banned for the 2014 season had more compelling circumstances than Josh Gordon since both of those guys had already been suspended twice and both had other mitigating circumstances that would be covered under the PCP.

I think the PCP is the policy that people should have been concentrating on all along since it covers everything and would take everything into account when considering dishing out punishment such as DUI's and speeding and in the case of Daryl Washington his arrest for assulting a woman while the NFL was considering his case and the previous PED suspension for Will Hill. Now people want to fry Josh Gordon for a DUI which is fine but its considered his first alchohol violation under the substance abuse policy which means it would not be considered a suspendable violation if you only look at the substance abuse policy.
Click to expand...
Are you sure they are completely separate? If Gordon is already in Stage 3 for recreational drugs and assuming that alcohol becomes part of his testing then wouldn't a positive test for alcohol result in a suspension?
Click to expand...
Yep.

I've been arguing the PCP is the policy that people should have beenn concentrating on all along. The PCP is the only policy that would consider the latest DWI, not the substane abuse policy which treats it as his first alchohol violation which is not suspendable under that policy.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/06/gordons-dui-arrest-technically-irrelevant-to-pending-suspension/

Gordon’s DWI arrest technically irrelevant to pending suspensionPosted by Mike Florio on July 6, 2014, 12:22 AM EDT

In theory, the recent DWI arrest of Browns receiver Josh Gordon won’t impact his pending one-year suspension for his latest violation of the substance-abuse policy. But with the Commissioner or his designee handling the appeal of the proposed suspension, knowing that Gordon has been popped for DWI likely won’t result in any discretion being exercised in his favor at the appeal hearing set for late July.

The substance-abuse policy establishes a separate track for violations of the law relating to alcohol. Since Gordon has no prior DWI offenses, he may not be suspended; however, past suspensions for misconduct under the substance-abuse policy could expose him to suspension for a first DWI offense.

Speaking of first-offense DWIs, Colts owner Jim Irsay’s recent comments regarding alcoholism and addiction resonate with respect to players like Gordon and Colts receiver LaVon Brazill, who potentially are struggling with alcoholism and/or addiction issues.

Brazill has been and Gordon possibly will be ejected from the league for a year due to a series of failed drug tests. Unless and until Irsay is subject to the same rigorous procedures, which expose players to up to 10 tests per month, a double standard will exists.

For Gordon, the double standard has become a double whammy, with a one-year suspension possibly resulting from marijuana issues and another suspension possibly resulting from his DWI arrest.
Click to expand...
 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
amnesiac said:
GoodLloydHaveMercy said:
Just curious... Did Gordon get to benefit from the rookie symposium when he came out?
Click to expand...
not sure exactly when it started, but it's been around long enough that he should have gone through it.
Click to expand...
I think maybe he didn't because he was in the supplemental draft. They've already held it this year and we haven't had the supplemental draft yet.
Click to expand...
Call me crazy, but I'm not convinced the rookie symposium would've made a large difference here.

 
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.

He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
Since you are obsessed with facts, here's one: Josh Gordon broke the law and got arrested for it.

ROYALWITCHEESE said:
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
Well, here's another fact that you need to deal with: Goodell doesn't need to see Gordon to get off or get convicted to factor this arrest into his appeal decison.You want to keep harping that it was "only" a .09, fine. But you also need to accept this fact: this arrest isn't good for his appeal.
Click to expand...
If the arrest goes away it is a non issue.He blew a .09 and it may go away... If the charges go away then Goodell is going to take them into consideration??

If they go away - they go away...
Click to expand...
First-you said you have had several relatives deal with DUI's. They don't "go away" in less than a month. So, even if they "go away," Goodell will have made his decision on the appeal prior to that.Second-Please try to read carefully. Goodell's decision isn't based on whether Gordon gets convicted of this DUI or not. Gordon is appealing, essentially asking for a reduced "sentence," if you will. In order to get some leniency, Goodell will likely want to believe that this issue won't come up again. Getting stopped with weed in his car, then arrested for DUI, then bailed out by a felon who is a suspected drug dealer are not things that will give Goodell confidence that this won't continue to be an issue. Therefore, they won't lead Goodell to be lenient.

You said you're dealing with facts, then deal with all the facts, not just the one(s) that support your (wrong) viewpoint.
Click to expand...
Burden of proof is on the league. Goodell can't suspend him for acts he was not found guilty of.
Click to expand...
Tell that to Ben Roethlisberger.

 
http://www.tddaily.com/media/browns-wr-josh-gordons-giant-back-tattoo-is-done-photos/

The tattoo says everything to me. He has a marijuana leaf interwoven next to his number. This is who this kid sees himself as.

He needs help if he ever is going to get back in the league. The league is going to come down extremely hard on him (as an example to every other person playing in the league that there is a hard line when it comes to substance abuse) and test him to death going forward should he ever get reinstated after his upcoming suspension. It's possible a light comes on and he changes who he wants to be. I have my doubts though as he first has to admit that he has a serious problem.

 
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
It's pathetic to read all of these excuses. The guy is in deep **** and his reaction to that is to go out and throw back enough alcohol to put him over the legal limit, then drive home. In his situation, anyone with a shred of common sense wouldn't be within 50 feet of anything but water. But instead, this guy broke the law (AGAIN) and now his dynasty owners are scrambling to make excuses for him. Absolutely pathetic.

 
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PlasmaDogPlasma said:
amnesiac said:
GoodLloydHaveMercy said:
Just curious... Did Gordon get to benefit from the rookie symposium when he came out?
Click to expand...
not sure exactly when it started, but it's been around long enough that he should have gone through it.
Click to expand...
I think maybe he didn't because he was in the supplemental draft. They've already held it this year and we haven't had the supplemental draft yet.
Click to expand...
Never went.

Missed it his rookie season since he was supplemental draftee and came after it occured that year and last year he wasn't a rookie he had the choice and decided not to attend.

 
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
how does a .09 get thrown out?

 
pantherclub said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
how does a .09 get thrown out?
Click to expand...
You are going to have to pay for that answer. Call an attorney...

The attorney that help a family member of mine through this situation indicated that if it is real close to the legal limit there is real opportunity. Also the cops must follow protocol to a T - from pulling you over for probable cause and suspicion. There is also timing to consider as to when the tests were administered, even the test itself can be called into question.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
amnesiac said:
GoodLloydHaveMercy said:
Just curious... Did Gordon get to benefit from the rookie symposium when he came out?
Click to expand...
not sure exactly when it started, but it's been around long enough that he should have gone through it.
Click to expand...
I think maybe he didn't because he was in the supplemental draft. They've already held it this year and we haven't had the supplemental draft yet.
Click to expand...
Never went.Missed it his rookie season since he was supplemental draftee and came after it occured that year and last year he wasn't a rookie he had the choice and decided not to attend.
Click to expand...
Why it wouldn't have saved him.

But Gordon did attend required weekly classroom meetings during the 2012 season as part of the league’s unpublicized Rookie Success Program. The nine-week program, which was conducted after regular-season practices, reinforced and advanced the principles discussed at the symposium. Topics included lifestyle management, anger management, stress management, and social media.

As a rookie, Gordon was somewhat shy and a bit of a loner. He was force-fed into a starting role after not playing in college for two seasons due to suspensions and transfer. During the Browns season, Gordon had virtually no leisure time away from football. As a result, his phenomenal skills were directed to a productive first season. The third-youngest player in the NFL last year, Gordon took small steps on the road to stardom.

But when his first season ended, something happened to Gordon. He changed agents. According to a source, he gravitated to South Beach in south Florida – the party haven of young pro athletes -- and ran with a different crowd. He was influenced by the wrong people. He tested positive for a banned NFL substance -- codeine, Gordon said in a statement -- and was slapped with a two-game suspension to start the 2013 season, and fined a total of four game checks.

Two weeks after the suspension was announced, Gordon riled up Clevelanders by flaunting his allegiance to Cavaliers-deserter LeBron James and the Miami Heat on his Twitter account. He tweeted about “the haters creeping back into the couches right now” during the seventh game of the NBA Finals and then about attending the Heat’s “champions parade” after their victory.

It was poor form and incurred the wrath of native Clevelander and former Browns and NFL lineman LeCharles Bentley. Bentley tweeted back at Gordon: “YOU’RE suspended, YOU let YOUR team down but it’s a priority to party with guys WAY out of your tax bracket … “
Click to expand...
 
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David Dodds said:
http://www.tddaily.com/media/browns-wr-josh-gordons-giant-back-tattoo-is-done-photos/

The tattoo says everything to me. He has a marijuana leaf interwoven next to his number. This is who this kid sees himself as.

He needs help if he ever is going to get back in the league. The league is going to come down extremely hard on him (as an example to every other person playing in the league that there is a hard line when it comes to substance abuse) and test him to death going forward should he ever get reinstated after his upcoming suspension. It's possible a light comes on and he changes who he wants to be. I have my doubts though as he first has to admit that he has a serious problem.
Click to expand...
David, apparently you didn't get the memo - it's a Japanese maple leaf.

 
Mene said:
It doesn't matter if he would have only blown a 0.6... Why the hell was he driving at all after drinking? His career hangs in the balance, he is under intense scrutiny... He has to make better decisions. If he knew he was going to drink, he should have planned accordingly and set up transportation. There is no excuse for taking that chance.

It's not about the difference between buzzed drivers and drunk drivers, it's about a man who cannot seem to get out of his own way. He should have called a cab, had a DD set up, anything but drive himself after drinking. I believe I've read the NFL has a service setup for this very thing. Then he didn't even have sense enough to stay around the speed limit.

His lack of regard makes it seem like there is no turning this thing around.
Click to expand...
Great post...at some point you need to be accountable for your actions...it's frightening how many people make excuses for unacceptable behavior...it's like laws have turned into suggestions...

 
ROYALWITCHEESE said:
Bayhawks said:
First-you said you have had several relatives deal with DUI's. They don't "go away" in less than a month. So, even if they "go away," Goodell will have made his decision on the appeal prior to that.Second-Please try to read carefully. Goodell's decision isn't based on whether Gordon gets convicted of this DUI or not. Gordon is appealing, essentially asking for a reduced "sentence," if you will. In order to get some leniency, Goodell will likely want to believe that this issue won't come up again. Getting stopped with weed in his car, then arrested for DUI, then bailed out by a felon who is a suspected drug dealer are not things that will give Goodell confidence that this won't continue to be an issue. Therefore, they won't lead Goodell to be lenient.

You said you're dealing with facts, then deal with all the facts, not just the one(s) that support your (wrong) viewpoint.
Click to expand...
Burden of proof is on the league. Goodell can't suspend him for acts he was not found guilty of.
Click to expand...
Um, Ben Roethlisberger was not found guilty or even charged with any criminal acts, but he was still suspended by Goodell.

 
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.

He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
So we are now punishing actions only if the consequences are severe? The league should stop flagging horsecollar tackles... unless they snal the tendon in a guy's leg doing it, in which case we should throw the flag? Leading with the helmet and hitting another player in the head shouldn't get a flag... unless that hit gives a player a concussion? If the guy misses the next play, then we penalize them?

He was over the limit. The fact that you want to celebrate him only slightly violating the law is bizarre. Yes, he may get off because of that, but it's not worth championing. If he gets off easy at .09, then how long until he feels comfy pushing it to .11? If he gets off easy, it enables him to be worse the next time. He clearly hasn't learned from all his previous issues...

 
While we're here, can I get a list of professions where a person should be cut a break from endangering the public because the job is so important/cool? I mean, we don't hear about how a DUI will ruin the life of a TIG welder or a telemarketer, but we are seeing a lot of hand-wringing over how it may ruin the life of a football player.

 
Brewtown said:
pantherclub said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
how does a .09 get thrown out?
Click to expand...
You are going to have to pay for that answer. Call an attorney...

The attorney that help a family member of mine through this situation indicated that if it is real close to the legal limit there is real opportunity. Also the cops must follow protocol to a T - from pulling you over for probable cause and suspicion. There is also timing to consider as to when the tests were administered, even the test itself can be called into question.
Click to expand...
But this is not the court of law, it is the court of Goodell. For those of you that think these latest episodes will not affect his appeal...give me a break. Stop looking for escape in the tiniest details and look at the bigger picture. It was the same thing with Jimmy Graham and the whole TE discussion. Yes, sure, you can make arguments that he is a WR and you can interpret the CBA and find a wording that strictly speaking should mean that he is a WR in terms of the franchise tag designation. But if you use a little common sense it is obvious that he is a TE. Same thing here with Josh Gordon. You can focus on details and read into the rules to make a case that these latest episodes don't have any bearing on the appeal and length of his suspension...but it obviously will be damaging to his case and it is clearly a huge negative both in terms of this round of suspension(s) and his future. It's fun to discuss topics like these and explore all possible outcomes, but let's not kill common sense in the process.

 
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All the argument over what will be considered in his appeal under the rules seems kind of misplaced. Its pretty clear that he failed, or missed, a required test. That's a 1 year suspension at his program level. If the violation is not upheld, nothing will happen to him, but no one is saying the don't expect the violation to be upheld. The question was whether Gordon would make a deal with the league to withdraw his appeal in return for a reduced sentence, or perhaps Goodell would reduce his sentence if the violation was for missing the test with a plausible excuse. Waiting for Goodell to consider whether to cut him a break, after already being given a break by Goodell last year, the guy gets stopped for speeding in a car smelling of marijuana where the passenger takes the blame for possession. Then he gets a marijuana leaf tattooed on his back intertwined with his playing number, then he not only drinks and drives, but gets stopped for speeding and being over the legal limit (yes, Brewtown, 15 miles over the limit in a 30 mile zone IS speeding and a crime, as is driving with a BAC over the limit) and gets bailed out by a felon buddy who is currently awaiting trial on felony drug distribution charges. So the question we have, undeterred supporters, is whether Goodell is going to risk league reputation by giving Gordon yet another break in suspension length under these circumstances.

 
Catbird said:
All the argument over what will be considered in his appeal under the rules seems kind of misplaced. Its pretty clear that he failed, or missed, a required test. That's a 1 year suspension at his program level. If the violation is not upheld, nothing will happen to him, but no one is saying the don't expect the violation to be upheld. The question was whether Gordon would make a deal with the league to withdraw his appeal in return for a reduced sentence, or perhaps Goodell would reduce his sentence if the violation was for missing the test with a plausible excuse. Waiting for Goodell to consider whether to cut him a break, after already being given a break by Goodell last year, the guy gets stopped for speeding in a car smelling of marijuana where the passenger takes the blame for possession. Then he gets a marijuana leaf tattooed on his back intertwined with his playing number, then he not only drinks and drives, but gets stopped for speeding and being over the legal limit (yes, Brewtown, 15 miles over the limit in a 30 mile zone IS speeding and a crime, as is driving with a BAC over the limit) and gets bailed out by a felon buddy who is currently awaiting trial on felony drug distribution charges.

So the question we have, undeterred supporters, is whether Goodell is going to risk league reputation by giving Gordon yet another break in suspension length under these circumstances.
Click to expand...
 
Junior McSpiffy said:
While we're here, can I get a list of professions where a person should be cut a break from endangering the public because the job is so important/cool? I mean, we don't hear about how a DUI will ruin the life of a TIG welder or a telemarketer, but we are seeing a lot of hand-wringing over how it may ruin the life of a football player.
Click to expand...
A DUI is not going to ruin the life of a welder or telemarketer....

 
Brewtown said:
Junior McSpiffy said:
While we're here, can I get a list of professions where a person should be cut a break from endangering the public because the job is so important/cool? I mean, we don't hear about how a DUI will ruin the life of a TIG welder or a telemarketer, but we are seeing a lot of hand-wringing over how it may ruin the life of a football player.
Click to expand...
A DUI is not going to ruin the life of a welder or telemarketer....
Click to expand...
A DUI is not going to ruin Gordon's life either.

 
Yes I said Gordon is not a murderer and the vitriol directed towards him was out of proportion toward his social transgressions of smoking marijuana and driving while intoxicated. He obviously has a lot of things to work out, including legal troubles now, but the rhetoric painting him as the paragon of bad behavior/choices is way over the top.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brewtown said:
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
Bayhawks said:
Brewtown said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Brewtown said:
He blew a .09...

I think there is a good chance this gets thrown out (unless there is more we don't know).

The closer that you are to the limit the better your chances of getting it thrown out. He is so close to the limit...

There are different degrees of DUI, and I think the NFL realizes this. For all we know Gordon may have somewhat done the right thing and said "No, I don't want another - I've got to drive home".
Click to expand...
boy ....you`re really stuck on this .09 thing huh? This isnt a posted speed limit where the cop lets a few miles over go....its the limit the law sees fit as legally too drunk to drive...get over it
Click to expand...
I will not get over it. I'm dealing with facts.

He blew a .09.

He did not - fall asleep at the wheel.

Roll his car over.

Fact is that when you are close to the limit people get off all the time. It's not as cut and dry as the law states or as you are thinking.
Click to expand...
Well, here's another fact that you need to deal with: Goodell doesn't need to see Gordon to get off or get convicted to factor this arrest into his appeal decison.You want to keep harping that it was "only" a .09, fine. But you also need to accept this fact: this arrest isn't good for his appeal.
Click to expand...
If the arrest goes away it is a non issue.

He blew a .09 and it may go away... If the charges go away then Goodell is going to take them into consideration??

If they go away - they go away...
Click to expand...
First-you said you have had several relatives deal with DUI's. They don't "go away" in less than a month. So, even if they "go away," Goodell will have made his decision on the appeal prior to that.Second-Please try to read carefully. Goodell's decision isn't based on whether Gordon gets convicted of this DUI or not. Gordon is appealing, essentially asking for a reduced "sentence," if you will. In order to get some leniency, Goodell will likely want to believe that this issue won't come up again. Getting stopped with weed in his car, then arrested for DUI, then bailed out by a felon who is a suspected drug dealer are not things that will give Goodell confidence that this won't continue to be an issue. Therefore, they won't lead Goodell to be lenient.

You said you're dealing with facts, then deal with all the facts, not just the one(s) that support your (wrong) viewpoint.
Click to expand...
In a righteous world if someone gets drunk driving charges thrown out or modified to something else then they go away (especially because he was .09).

The other stuff you are referring to (weed in car-supposedly wasn't his) may be a different issue....

I do not own Gordon in any league and have no personal tie to having him play again (other than seeing the best football players play NFL football). I just don't like the fact that people label a .09 drunk driver the same as a .18 going the wrong way on the freeway. I also am not a big fan of piling on people when they are going through some difficult times, self induced or otherwise.

Now get back on your high horse Curt Henning...
Click to expand...
so he was just a little bit high...a little bit drunk....he was just driving just a little bit impaired while appealing a drug test that he was just a little bit late for....you`re posts are a little bit stupid.

I know that your real issue is with the drunk driving laws and that you probably drive a little bit drunk on a regular basis....so you dont like the law as its written....oh well ,im sure i know plenty of people that have been hurt or killed by drunk drivers that would disagree mightily with you...i used to drive drunk all the time and i thought the laws were stupid also...i have 3 DUI`s in my life time...but ive driven drunk hundreds of times...i havent driven impaired in almost 20 years now and i never will again...its not worth it...and there isnt an argument on this planet that will convince me otherwise.

 
Steed said:
massraider said:
RBM said:
No Soulfly yet?
Click to expand...
Part of me has thought that if this went the way people thought, and Gordon went down, for a year, we might never see Soulfly3 again.
Click to expand...
My guess is he got a 3 day vaca for being less than excellent. Couldn't if come at a worse time, he's probably beside himself trying to defend Gordon to all us haters right now, but his exile won't let him.
Click to expand...
Surely he will concede his argument at this point, no?

 
IHEARTFF said:
Steed said:
massraider said:
RBM said:
No Soulfly yet?
Click to expand...
Part of me has thought that if this went the way people thought, and Gordon went down, for a year, we might never see Soulfly3 again.
Click to expand...
My guess is he got a 3 day vaca for being less than excellent. Couldn't if come at a worse time, he's probably beside himself trying to defend Gordon to all us haters right now, but his exile won't let him.
Click to expand...
Surely he will concede his argument at this point, no?
Click to expand...
IHEARTFF said:
Steed said:
massraider said:
RBM said:
No Soulfly yet?
Click to expand...
Part of me has thought that if this went the way people thought, and Gordon went down, for a year, we might never see Soulfly3 again.
Click to expand...
My guess is he got a 3 day vaca for being less than excellent. Couldn't if come at a worse time, he's probably beside himself trying to defend Gordon to all us haters right now, but his exile won't let him.
Click to expand...
Surely he will concede his argument at this point, no?
Click to expand...
have you seen his avatar? never will he concede...ever

 
IHEARTFF said:
Steed said:
massraider said:
RBM said:
No Soulfly yet?
Click to expand...
Part of me has thought that if this went the way people thought, and Gordon went down, for a year, we might never see Soulfly3 again.
Click to expand...
My guess is he got a 3 day vaca for being less than excellent. Couldn't if come at a worse time, he's probably beside himself trying to defend Gordon to all us haters right now, but his exile won't let him.
Click to expand...
Surely he will concede his argument at this point, no?
Click to expand...
Doubt it. Hasn't been suspended yet (this year).

 
Sigmund Bloom said:
Yes I said Gordon is not a murderer and the vitriol directed towards him was out of proportion toward his social transgressions of smoking marijuana and driving while intoxicated. He obviously has a lot of things to work out, including legal troubles now, but the rhetoric painting him as the paragon of bad behavior/choices is way over the top.
Click to expand...
I think most people get that he has an addiction and that beating those is really hard to do regardless of who you are or what you do for a living.

At the same time, the arguments in this thread in his favor have been so full of wishcasting and so lacking in logic that it's a pretty normal message board dynamic to turn frustration with those arguments on Gordon himself.

 
Steed said:
massraider said:
RBM said:
No Soulfly yet?
Click to expand...
Part of me has thought that if this went the way people thought, and Gordon went down, for a year, we might never see Soulfly3 again.
Click to expand...
My guess is he got a 3 day vaca for being less than excellent. Couldn't if come at a worse time, he's probably beside himself trying to defend Gordon to all us haters right now, but his exile won't let him.
Click to expand...
How many guys are just checking this thread to see if Soulfly re-emerges and what spin he gives this turn of events?

 
RC94 said:
Brewtown said:
Junior McSpiffy said:
While we're here, can I get a list of professions where a person should be cut a break from endangering the public because the job is so important/cool? I mean, we don't hear about how a DUI will ruin the life of a TIG welder or a telemarketer, but we are seeing a lot of hand-wringing over how it may ruin the life of a football player.
Click to expand...
A DUI is not going to ruin the life of a welder or telemarketer....
Click to expand...
A DUI is not going to ruin Gordon's life either.
Click to expand...
no but he will eventually ruin his life if he hasnt already
 
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