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Doug Baldwin

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1 hour ago, C-Bound said:

Learned my lesson also benching him for MVS.  He's locked in WR3 for me going forward.

I don't think I'd be so quick to lock him into my lineup. I started him last night but only because I saw a high likelihood of a shootout. I don't see another shootout in their future til week 16 vs KC. 

Mayyyybe @CAR or vs MIN, but those could easily become defensive grinds where they abandon the pass.

Although... just to play devil's advocate with myself here lol... Baldwin saw just 2 targets in the second half last night, despite the team still passing. So the majority of his production came in the first half, which bodes well for pretty much any game going forward as they likely won't abandon the pass entirely until the second half.

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Bob Condotta‏ @bcondotta

Seahawks GM John Schneider hints on pregame radio show on @710ESPNSeattle that Doug Baldwin will be on a little of a pitch count as he nurses groin injury today. @StacyRost #royalhelping

 

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Panning out to the biggest roster spot anchor of the year.

Not sure there is any reason to hold; hindsight being what it is, not worth drafting or having kept him this long.

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I don't know what to make of Baldwin. He was virtually invisible the entire first half, then ended up with 7 targets or so?

I guess the one thing I can make out of Baldwin is this crazy variance still makes me think that while he may have one out of norm game where he scores, he is kind of unuseable for me in a fantasy sense, as he's simply not a reliable start.

I'd rather drop and shore up depth or streamers (like Yeldon or Justin Jackson) or a potential lottery ticket like Ware, tbh.

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I’m chalking it up to his reaggravated groin and hoping he recovers by next week. 

A fully healthy Baldwin is a beast. 

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Still not trustworthy to me at all.

His target share is affected by the ascendance of both Lockett and Moore, both of whom can stretch the field and gain separation better than Baldwin. The running game has been effective for SEA and they seem to have no problem leveraging a much heavier run:pass ratio than in early years where it was about bootlegs and PA to get Wilson out and creating in space -- he's much more a pocket guy now, whether by design, ability, and/or the way Carroll wants this offense and its personnel to run.

His getting constantly re-injured is part of the game, but clearly affects him, and his production, when it comes, is erratic and unpredictable.

If anything, the only thing I can see is that since their bye, Baldwin has been better at home than on the road, but not sure that's a trend we can rely upon as opposed to that's how match up and scheduling work out.

I don't think he'll be reliable to bank on ROS, and truth be told, his time as an incredibly productive receiver as he has been in years' past may be just that -- in the past.

 

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Doug Baldwin (hip) caught 4-of-6 passes for 77 yards and two touchdowns in the Seahawks' Week 15 overtime loss to the 49ers.

Baldwin looked healthy, especially after 49ers CB Ahkello Witherspoon left the game in the first quarter. Just minutes after Witherspoon was sent to the locker room, Baldwin scored an easy touchdown with a backup rookie chasing him around. Baldwin then caught a 35-yard touchdown thanks to another poor job by the 49ers secondary. With the Chiefs coming to town, Baldwin will have an elevated ceiling in a game that should be more high scoring than the typical Seahawks contest, but inconsistent volume will keep Baldwin as an upside WR3.

Dec 16 - 9:10 PM

 

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Does he bounce back next season?  I loved the guy coming into 2018, but injuries ruined his season.  He's 30 and been dealing with nagging injuries off and on.  He's obviously a great bounce back candidate, but at what point do you start looking at him?  I feel like he'll be a WR3 in drafts next season, with the upside to be a WR2.  

I worry Lockett continues to blossom and eat into his share.

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6 hours ago, jm192 said:

Does he bounce back next season?  I loved the guy coming into 2018, but injuries ruined his season.  He's 30 and been dealing with nagging injuries off and on.  He's obviously a great bounce back candidate, but at what point do you start looking at him?  I feel like he'll be a WR3 in drafts next season, with the upside to be a WR2.  

I worry Lockett continues to blossom and eat into his share.

I think so.

He went from 4 seasons in a row of 100 targets to this season where he only had 73. He missed 3 games and had an injury that lingered through the season but he was still on pace for 90 targets. not that far off where he has been for many seasons now.

The thing that is perhaps more of a concern is that WIlson only had 427 pass attempts. He hasn't thrown that few passes since 2013. The last two seasons Wilson had been throwing it about 550 times per game. A bigger pie for all the receivers in that scenario. Running the ball was effective for them and they made the playoffs after an offseason where they lost a lot of star players and looked more like a rebuilding year.

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12 hours ago, jm192 said:

Does he bounce back next season?  I loved the guy coming into 2018, but injuries ruined his season.  He's 30 and been dealing with nagging injuries off and on.  He's obviously a great bounce back candidate, but at what point do you start looking at him?  I feel like he'll be a WR3 in drafts next season, with the upside to be a WR2.  

I worry Lockett continues to blossom and eat into his share.

Probably. He'll turn 31 next season, but the gradual drop off for WRs doesn't typically begin until 32, so 2019 should be the final year of his prime. This year can almost certainly be written off to injury. As long as he's healthy next season, he should return to his usual points per target. The main problem will be the targets, though. They did ok this year running the ball, but then this happened. Hopefully it woke them up. Seattle pass attempts the past 5 years:
2014-454
2015-489
2016-565
2017-528
2018-427

Hard to criticize them too much, though, as they did make it into the playoffs and Wilson still threw 35 TDs and only 7 INT. 

Baldwin and Lockett are complementary players so they really shouldn't cannibalize targets from each other. They should, in theory, be most effective when the other is doing their thing well. If Seattle throws the ball merely 500 times, I think they each could get 100 targets and finish as WR2s. Lockett could actually finish as a WR1 if he were to get 100 targets, which would be pretty rare given that WR1s usually have 130+ targets, but the guy is just that efficient (not that Baldwin isn't - he's caught over 70% of his targets in several seasons). 

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Baldwin definitely frustrated me this year and I was ready to give up on him (of course, taking injuries into account) but his usage in the last few games of the year where Wilson targeted him in key situations renewed my faith that I’ll hopefully have a WR2 in him next season.  But I’ll be ready to trade him away if my team falters next season and Baldwin is doing well.  

Edited by joey

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On 3/21/2019 at 1:45 PM, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Doug Baldwin just said with @cliffavril on @SportsRadioKJR that he has more surgeries yet to come still this offseason.

 

Sports hernia

A shame. I hope he can make a full recovery & perform at a high level once again

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John Daigle‏ @notJDaigle

"Doug Baldwin has already had knee and shoulder surgeries this offseason and has been thought contemplating his football future." About to undergo his third (sports hernia) and reportedly might need more work done.

8:17 AM - 27 Mar 2019

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2 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

John Daigle‏ @notJDaigle

"Doug Baldwin has already had knee and shoulder surgeries this offseason and has been thought contemplating his football future." About to undergo his third (sports hernia) and reportedly might need more work done.

8:17 AM - 27 Mar 2019

Time to send out some low ball trade offers...

He doesn't strike me as the retire early kind of guy. He's 30 now. Turns 31 in September. Should have 2 seasons of fantasy football utility left, maybe a few flex years after that if in the right system.

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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports there is a "real chance" Doug Baldwin will be unable to continue playing due to the "cumulative effect" of multiple injuries.

Baldwin was a shell of his former self last season while battling multiple injuries and underwent knee, shoulder and hernia surgeries this offseason. The 30-year-old has long been one of the league's better slot receivers and a trusted safety net for Russell Wilson. Baldwin's uncertain future could have been a factor in the Seahawks drafting Ole Miss standout D.K. Metcalf with the 64th pick on Friday night. The Stanford alum's 493 catches rank third in franchise history behind Brian Blades and Hall of Famer Steve Largent.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Apr 26, 2019, 7:56 PM

 

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Speaking Friday evening, Seahawks coach Pete Carroll demurred when asked about Doug Baldwin's NFL future.

Carroll confirmed that Baldwin is considering retirement, but he declined to discuss the exact nature of his health issues. Carroll said the wideout was working through a "process." When asked if Baldwin had played his final NFL game, Carroll did not answer. For their part, the Seahawks added to their receiver corps on Friday night, selecting Ole Miss' D.K. Metcalf. You can connect the dots. It would be a sad, sudden end to a unique career.

SOURCE: Bob Condotta on Twitter

Apr 26, 2019, 9:54 PM

 

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Ugh. I love me some Dougie B and hope he doesn't hang 'em up.  Played with a wonderful chip on his shoulder; the kind that stops at the field's boundaries. 

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NFL Network's Mike Garofolo reports that an official announcement on Doug Baldwin's retirement is unlikely "any time soon" because of salary cap reasons.

Essentially, Baldwin could lose a "couple" million dollars off his signing bonus if he officially retires. For a variety of monetary reasons, he is better off waiting for the Seahawks to release him. Garofolo firmly believes the 30-year-old wideout has played his final down.

SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter

Apr 29, 2019, 11:54 AM

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3 minutes ago, zeeshan2 said:

Seahawks just released him and Kam Chancellor

Its amazing to think that a team that won the Super Bowl 5 years ago, only has Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, and KJ Wright left from that team.

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Does he get his 2020 money?

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

Its amazing to think that a team that won the Super Bowl 5 years ago, only has Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, and KJ Wright left from that team.

And how poorly they have done replacing this guys 

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32 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Does he get his 2020 money?

He only gets what was guaranteed.  Not sure any of his 2020 money was, since we're still only in 2019 and the extension was signed in 2016.  That would be an awful long way out to guarantee salary.

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3 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

He only gets what was guaranteed.  Not sure any of his 2020 money was, since we're still only in 2019 and the extension was signed in 2016.  That would be an awful long way out to guarantee salary.

This is what confuses me. When Crowell got hurt, someone hear said since he’s a veteran he will get all the money owed to him this year. Does Baldwin not get it because his injuries didn’t happen this football year and were from last year?

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1 minute ago, pbandy1 said:

damn. Sad to see this guy done like this. Was so fun to watch

One of the most incredible success stories. He defied every convention of what we expect from a star WR.

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4 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

He only gets what was guaranteed.  Not sure any of his 2020 money was, since we're still only in 2019 and the extension was signed in 2016.  That would be an awful long way out to guarantee salary.

Signing bonus/contract years-years paid=dead money

ie. 5 years/50 mil guaranteed=10 mil a year 

after year 3 released, counts 10 mil for the next 2 years, hence how Detroit was still paying Calvin last year. 

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Baldwin had no more guaranteed money in his contract but by being cut instead of retiring he will not have to pay back any of the $7 million in bonus money received in a four-year deal he signed in 2016. He will end up not playing the final two seasons of that contract, years in which he would have made $9.25 and $10.25 million. However, per the league’s collective bargaining agreement, he should get $1.2 million in an injury protection payout for the 2019 season.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-terminate-contracts-of-kam-chancellor-and-doug-baldwin-ending-their-seattle-careers/

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

And how poorly they have done replacing this guys 

They have done horrible. Went to another SB and made the playoffs every year except one?

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15 minutes ago, seahawk 17 said:

They have done horrible. Went to another SB and made the playoffs every year except one?

They have one of the 2 or 3 best QBs, a great coach and most of those awesome players were there for those years. They didn’t all leave after the SB win. You think they have drafted well since 2012?

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3 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Signing bonus/contract years-years paid=dead money

ie. 5 years/50 mil guaranteed=10 mil a year 

after year 3 released, counts 10 mil for the next 2 years, hence how Detroit was still paying Calvin last year. 

Right, but he was asking about what money Baldwin would get, not what the cap hit was.

edit: Actually no, Detroit wasn't paying Calvin that money, they were simply being hit with the cap charge for money they had already paid him.

Edited by Hankmoody

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3 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

This is what confuses me. When Crowell got hurt, someone hear said since he’s a veteran he will get all the money owed to him this year. Does Baldwin not get it because his injuries didn’t happen this football year and were from last year?

Well there are two factors.  First, Oakland hasn't released him, they put him on IR.  You can't cleanly cut a player that's hurt on the job and Crowell injured himself on the practice field.  They would be required to reach an injury settlement - many teams don't bother and just pay the guy in full. 

Second, that person was conflating this with a different rule.  After week 1, a "vested veteran" that is released can choose to receive his entire salary for that year, even if not guaranteed.  Each can only do this one time in their careers. 

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10 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Well there are two factors.  First, Oakland hasn't released him, they put him on IR.  You can't cleanly cut a player that's hurt on the job and Crowell injured himself on the practice field.  They would be required to reach an injury settlement - many teams don't bother and just pay the guy in full. 

Second, that person was conflating this with a different rule.  After week 1, a "vested veteran" that is released can choose to receive his entire salary for that year, even if not guaranteed.  Each can only do this one time in their careers. 

So couldn’t Baldwin claim he was hurt on the job?

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4 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Right, but he was asking about what money Baldwin would get, not what the cap hit was.

edit: Actually no, Detroit wasn't paying Calvin that money, they were simply being hit with the cap charge for money they had already paid him.

Right, the guaranteed money is the money he would get, which counts against the cap. When someone gets “$30 million guaranteed” they don’t get it all that day, it’s spread over the course of the contract. 

I could very well be wrong here but I’m pretty sure this is correct. If a player is traded or released the remaining guaranteed money on the contract counts as a cap penalty. 

Perhaps I’m wrong

Cant find any info directly but this article implies he had his bonus and the lions tried to get some of it back. Typical lions...

Edited by Snorkelson

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

So couldn’t Baldwin claim he was hurt on the job? 

I'm murkier on this part, but I think that's probably what "with an injury designation" means - probably a settlement of some sort.   I know they have year-end physicals but I am not sure if he failed that one, or if he didn't how that impacts the next season's physicals.

7 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Right, the guaranteed money is the money he would get, which counts against the cap. When someone gets “$30 million guaranteed” they don’t get it all that day, it’s spread over the course of the contract. 

I could very well be wrong here but I’m pretty sure this is correct. If a player is traded or released the remaining guaranteed money on the contract counts as a cap penalty. 

Perhaps I’m wrong

Cant find any info directly but this article implies he had his bonus and the lions tried to get some of it back. Typical lions...

But as I originally said, it's unlikely Baldwin has any guaranteed salary left since he signed his deal in 2016, and your original reply to me was addressing unallocated signing bonus and cap hit, are you conflating those things?  They are way different.

Calvin didn't have guaranteed money remaining.  The article is about the Lions debating going after the signing bonus to get a portion of the money back.  They signed a _ year deal in good faith and wrote a check for __ million dollars and Calvin didn't live up to that.  He voluntarily retired.  If they had released him they would have no such claim, but their stance was "we're ready for you to come in any time" and he didn't so they wanted their money back.  Just like if you sign a retainer with an attorney and they don't end up not taking your case - you get that back.  They actually had a good legal case and teams have won those in the past but I think they decided the publicity and negative energy with a team legend wasn't worth a few million bucks to a billion dollar business.

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7 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Right, the guaranteed money is the money he would get, which counts against the cap. When someone gets “$30 million guaranteed” they don’t get it all that day, it’s spread over the course of the contract. 

I could very well be wrong here but I’m pretty sure this is correct. If a player is traded or released the remaining guaranteed money on the contract counts as a cap penalty. 

Perhaps I’m wrong

Cant find any info directly but this article implies he had his bonus and the lions tried to get some of it back. Typical lions...

The way you are describing guaranteed money is not completely correct. I will use Russell Wilson as an example.

From Spotrac: Russell Wilson signed a 4 year, $140M new money extension with the Seattle Seahawks on April 15, 2019 that included a $65M signing bonus, $107M of total guarantees, and an average annual salary of $35M. At the time of signing this deal was the highest average paid contract, most total guarantees, and biggest signing bonus in NFL history.

The $107M in total guarantees consists of the following:

  • $65M signing bonus
  • $5M 2019 base salary
  • $18M 2020 base salary
  • $19M 2021 base salary

If he was released after the 2021 season, he would have 2 more years of pro-rated signing bonus = $65M/5 x 2 = $26M that would hit the cap. Not 2 more years of pro-rated $107M guaranteed money, which would equal $107M/5 x 2 = $42.8M

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15 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

This is what confuses me. When Crowell got hurt, someone hear said since he’s a veteran he will get all the money owed to him this year. Does Baldwin not get it because his injuries didn’t happen this football year and were from last year?

He will get any guaranteed salary he has and does not have to return any portion of his signing bonus - which is why Seattle did right by him to release him.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

He will get any guaranteed salary he has and does not have to return any portion of his signing bonus - which is why Seattle did right by him to release him.

:goodposting: 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

He will get any guaranteed salary he has and does not have to return any portion of his signing bonus - which is why Seattle did right by him to release him.

I am just curious about his non-guaranteed salary for the year since his release and inability to perform is obviously due to on the job injuries. 

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17 hours ago, Dacomish said:

Baldwin had no more guaranteed money in his contract but by being cut instead of retiring he will not have to pay back any of the $7 million in bonus money received in a four-year deal he signed in 2016. He will end up not playing the final two seasons of that contract, years in which he would have made $9.25 and $10.25 million. However, per the league’s collective bargaining agreement, he should get $1.2 million in an injury protection payout for the 2019 season.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-terminate-contracts-of-kam-chancellor-and-doug-baldwin-ending-their-seattle-careers/

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

He will get any guaranteed salary he has and does not have to return any portion of his signing bonus - which is why Seattle did right by him to release him.

This is indeed what made the move classy by Seattle -- didn't cost Baldwin anything so he gets to essentially retire with more benefits than he would have if he actually retired.

Absolutely the right thing to do for a fantastic, dedicated, and hard-nosed player and leader who had a huge impact on the team, was one of it's driving reasons behind its success over the last 8+ years, and something you'd love to see all teams try to do for a player like this who spent his entire career with that team.

Loved Baldwin, sad to see him go, but careers are short in the NFL (also why it's no surprise players on the SB reaching/winning roster are all gone now). He'll definitely be missed. 

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40 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I am just curious about his non-guaranteed salary for the year since his release and inability to perform is obviously due to on the job injuries. 

I think he only is assured to get an injury settlement for this season.

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