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voiceofunreason

Official Sam Bradford - QB

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Bradford will probably be the player I watch most during training camp, incredibly interested to see him under a system like this.

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Bradford will probably be the player I watch most during training camp, incredibly interested to see him under a system like this.

Same here, should be interesting.

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I will attempt to draft him in all of my leagues. He's the ultimate boom/bust pick, but if he can stay healthy, I'm banking on his system and surrounding cast.

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What's similar to the Sooners offense and Kelly's Oregon offense adjusted a little for the pros? How much of a learning curve is it for Sam?

Kelly system is good for QBs who can make quick decisions. Foles' first year in the system he went 27-2. Sanchez probably had his best season under Kelly last year. I don't think there will be much of a learning curve at all. If healthy, I would expect ~65% completion percentage, 275+ pass yd/gm average.

As far as the plays and formations go I think the playbook may not be that big but getting the signals down from the sideline is a lot to cover. Knowing how to read the defense (8 men in the box, go play action, 5 or 6 men, hand off). Just being able to exploit the weakest match-up at the line quickly and catch the defense off guard is the foundation of Chip's spread offense.

Kelly likes/respects/admires something about the Sooners offense though. 4th string QB Kinne is probably cut, but Tulsa is like OU's minor league team. I swear they have(or had) the same plays and games against them looked like 1st string versus third string. Kinne had like no pro prospects. Something a bit curious here. Minor minor minor, a footnote at most, but interesting.

Something about transitioning the Oregon O to the NFL, can't do it this way NFL LBs are too fast? Safeties are too quick? Oh OK so we do it like the Sooners did. I don't know, throwing junk ideas out there no doubt, but I'm curious.

Sorry to take this thread off track, just a whimsical thought at best.

If Landry Jones gets cut, probably will, and the Eagles sign him-some of you Oregon fans need to sit down and think about this though

Edited by Bri

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I will attempt to draft him in all of my leagues. He's the ultimate boom/bust pick, but if he can stay healthy, I'm banking on his system and surrounding cast.

If Mark Sanchez can score under this system...

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I will attempt to draft him in all of my leagues. He's the ultimate boom/bust pick, but if he can stay healthy, I'm banking on his system and surrounding cast.

If Mark Sanchez can score under this system...

Exactly my sentiments!! He will have a great offensive line and better weapons at RB and WR than he had on the Rams.

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Next week Bradford will throw in 7 on 7s. Watch how many Eagles reporters remark how nice a ball he throws. He is the king of first impressions in the NFL.

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According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Sam Bradford's surgically repaired left knee doesn't appear "remotely close" to full health.

It's our fourth Bradford post of the day. This is just reporter Jeff McLane's take, but he believes "the specter of (Mark) Sanchez under center (in Week 1) becomes more and more of a reality" every day that Bradford's rehab drags on. Neither Bradford nor coach Chip Kelly has attached a date to Bradford's return, though both are trying to project confidence that he'll be ready for training camp. McLane reports Bradford was "clearly favoring" his left leg in Thursday's practice. Bradford has the potential to be a fantasy bargain this season, but he needs to get his health in order over the next two months.

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According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Sam Bradford's surgically repaired left knee doesn't appear "remotely close" to full health.

It's our fourth Bradford post of the day. This is just reporter Jeff McLane's take, but he believes "the specter of (Mark) Sanchez under center (in Week 1) becomes more and more of a reality" every day that Bradford's rehab drags on. Neither Bradford nor coach Chip Kelly has attached a date to Bradford's return, though both are trying to project confidence that he'll be ready for training camp. McLane reports Bradford was "clearly favoring" his left leg in Thursday's practice. Bradford has the potential to be a fantasy bargain this season, but he needs to get his health in order over the next two months.

Not going to lie. If you saw some tape of what he was doing yesterday his legs looked like pegs. Still a little under two months but he's going to have to really work hard to build up leg strength and with the ACL thing I don't know if that is possible.

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According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Sam Bradford's surgically repaired left knee doesn't appear "remotely close" to full health.

It's our fourth Bradford post of the day. This is just reporter Jeff McLane's take, but he believes "the specter of (Mark) Sanchez under center (in Week 1) becomes more and more of a reality" every day that Bradford's rehab drags on. Neither Bradford nor coach Chip Kelly has attached a date to Bradford's return, though both are trying to project confidence that he'll be ready for training camp. McLane reports Bradford was "clearly favoring" his left leg in Thursday's practice. Bradford has the potential to be a fantasy bargain this season, but he needs to get his health in order over the next two months.

Not going to lie. If you saw some tape of what he was doing yesterday his legs looked like pegs. Still a little under two months but he's going to have to really work hard to build up leg strength and with the ACL thing I don't know if that is possible.

Shark play by Philly. Hold Bradford back this year, get the conditional third next year, re-sign him to a bargain contract, profit.

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According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Sam Bradford's surgically repaired left knee doesn't appear "remotely close" to full health.

It's our fourth Bradford post of the day. This is just reporter Jeff McLane's take, but he believes "the specter of (Mark) Sanchez under center (in Week 1) becomes more and more of a reality" every day that Bradford's rehab drags on. Neither Bradford nor coach Chip Kelly has attached a date to Bradford's return, though both are trying to project confidence that he'll be ready for training camp. McLane reports Bradford was "clearly favoring" his left leg in Thursday's practice. Bradford has the potential to be a fantasy bargain this season, but he needs to get his health in order over the next two months.

Not going to lie. If you saw some tape of what he was doing yesterday his legs looked like pegs. Still a little under two months but he's going to have to really work hard to build up leg strength and with the ACL thing I don't know if that is possible.

that stinks and was unexpected. Thanks for this and Dr Octopus too

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He looked fine to me

Eh, I am no doctor (sumthing sumthing, Holiday Inn Express) but his legs just looked small to me but it could mean absolutely nothing at all.

Don't put much weight on stuff by Jeff McClane...

Good call, other than John Gonzalez or Angelo Cataldi he's the worst beat reporter of them all.

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According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Sam Bradford's surgically repaired left knee doesn't appear "remotely close" to full health.

It's our fourth Bradford post of the day. This is just reporter Jeff McLane's take, but he believes "the specter of (Mark) Sanchez under center (in Week 1) becomes more and more of a reality" every day that Bradford's rehab drags on. Neither Bradford nor coach Chip Kelly has attached a date to Bradford's return, though both are trying to project confidence that he'll be ready for training camp. McLane reports Bradford was "clearly favoring" his left leg in Thursday's practice. Bradford has the potential to be a fantasy bargain this season, but he needs to get his health in order over the next two months.

Not going to lie. If you saw some tape of what he was doing yesterday his legs looked like pegs. Still a little under two months but he's going to have to really work hard to build up leg strength and with the ACL thing I don't know if that is possible.

that stinks and was unexpected. Thanks for this and Dr Octopus too

On the bright side, Tebow's legs looked in great shape...

;)

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I can't imagine the Eagles not making every attempt to get Bradford on the field as soon as possible. Sanchez is a very average QB who can help a great defense win games like he did early in his career. Bradford though could still turn in to an above average NFL QB and would be night and day versus sanchez likely.

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I can't imagine the Eagles not making every attempt to get Bradford on the field as soon as possible. Sanchez is a very average QB who can help a great defense win games like he did early in his career. Bradford though could still turn in to an above average NFL QB and would be night and day versus sanchez likely.

I couldn't stand Sanchez late in his time with the Jets, but he was pretty good last year. There were definitely some impressive games.

I think that is his ceiling, like he is there right now. I don't think time in Chip's offense or anything will elevate it.

The Eagles can afford to bring Sam back when he's ready. If they want the long prolific career he was supposed to have, then there's no reason to rush him.

They have a good to very good D and the potential to have the best rushing attack. Sure it's ideal for Sam to roll through camp with the team and all, but establishing those two facets of the game before he returns could work out beautifully for them. Also sometimes Chip needs to go classic NFL style and ground and pound. His cute offense could use the occasional tweak.

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There isn't a huge difference between Sanchez' career numbers and Bradford's. Not as much as you would think there would be anyway. Neither of them had a great group of guys to throw to on average. Mark has thrown more ints, but has a considerably higher career YPA and slightly higher TD percentage as well.

All in all, with one dude coming off of surgery, and with the other guy having a year in the system - I think this race is a lot closer than it is being made out to be. I understand Sanchez seemed to collapse last year, but he looked pretty good at times too.

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Bradford is still highly coveted by NFL teams. PHI gave up Foles/2nd/4th to get him. Cleveland offered the 19 pick for him before the PHI trade.

Sanchez could have signed anywhere but there was very little interest in him on the FA market.

it's pretty clear this is bradfords job when he's healthy, there isn't a real competition for the job.

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There isn't a huge difference between Sanchez' career numbers and Bradford's. Not as much as you would think there would be anyway. Neither of them had a great group of guys to throw to on average. Mark has thrown more ints, but has a considerably higher career YPA and slightly higher TD percentage as well.

All in all, with one dude coming off of surgery, and with the other guy having a year in the system - I think this race is a lot closer than it is being made out to be. I understand Sanchez seemed to collapse last year, but he looked pretty good at times too.

you don't think Sanchez has had better targets?

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There isn't a huge difference between Sanchez' career numbers and Bradford's. Not as much as you would think there would be anyway. Neither of them had a great group of guys to throw to on average. Mark has thrown more ints, but has a considerably higher career YPA and slightly higher TD percentage as well.

All in all, with one dude coming off of surgery, and with the other guy having a year in the system - I think this race is a lot closer than it is being made out to be. I understand Sanchez seemed to collapse last year, but he looked pretty good at times too.

you don't think Sanchez has had better targets?

They've both had way below average targets. Kerley and Schilens were top two WRs in 2012. Holmes was #1 in 2011 with 654 yards. Edwards and Holmes in 2010. Cotchery in 2010. Not really a legit #1 in the bunch. Holmes was good once, but not with NY - he had quit by then. Was that group better than the guys Bradford has been throwing to? Maybe, but if so, not by enough to make a huge difference.

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Bradford is still highly coveted by NFL teams. PHI gave up Foles/2nd/4th to get him. Cleveland offered the 19 pick for him before the PHI trade.

Sanchez could have signed anywhere but there was very little interest in him on the FA market.

it's pretty clear this is bradfords job when he's healthy, there isn't a real competition for the job.

Sanchez signed a 2 year 9M deal as a FA. If nobody was interested in him, that wouldn't have happened. Did he have less value than Bradford? Yep. 4.5/year isn't big starter money, but it's more than most backups make. Philly really wanted to make sure they retained him.

I agree that Bradford was brought in to be the starter. But I think he has to earn it because in Chip's mind, the other guy is capable. If Bradford doesn't look healthy and good over the next couple of months, this will be Sanchez' job I think. It's a stacked competition in favor of Bradford, but it IS a competition IMO.

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Bradford is still highly coveted by NFL teams. PHI gave up Foles/2nd/4th to get him. Cleveland offered the 19 pick for him before the PHI trade.

Sanchez could have signed anywhere but there was very little interest in him on the FA market.

it's pretty clear this is bradfords job when he's healthy, there isn't a real competition for the job.

He re-signed with the Eagles before free agency officially started.

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Bradford is still highly coveted by NFL teams. PHI gave up Foles/2nd/4th to get him. Cleveland offered the 19 pick for him before the PHI trade.

Sanchez could have signed anywhere but there was very little interest in him on the FA market.

it's pretty clear this is bradfords job when he's healthy, there isn't a real competition for the job.

Sanchez signed a 2 year 9M deal as a FA. If nobody was interested in him, that wouldn't have happened. Did he have less value than Bradford? Yep. 4.5/year isn't big starter money, but it's more than most backups make. Philly really wanted to make sure they retained him.

I agree that Bradford was brought in to be the starter. But I think he has to earn it because in Chip's mind, the other guy is capable. If Bradford doesn't look healthy and good over the next couple of months, this will be Sanchez' job I think. It's a stacked competition in favor of Bradford, but it IS a competition IMO.

well put.

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Bradford is still highly coveted by NFL teams. PHI gave up Foles/2nd/4th to get him. Cleveland offered the 19 pick for him before the PHI trade.

Sanchez could have signed anywhere but there was very little interest in him on the FA market.

it's pretty clear this is bradfords job when he's healthy, there isn't a real competition for the job.

Sanchez signed a 2 year 9M deal as a FA. If nobody was interested in him, that wouldn't have happened. Did he have less value than Bradford? Yep. 4.5/year isn't big starter money, but it's more than most backups make. Philly really wanted to make sure they retained him.

I agree that Bradford was brought in to be the starter. But I think he has to earn it because in Chip's mind, the other guy is capable. If Bradford doesn't look healthy and good over the next couple of months, this will be Sanchez' job I think. It's a stacked competition in favor of Bradford, but it IS a competition IMO.

Where would you put the odds on Sanchez starting starting over a healthy(meaning on the field, maybe not 100% if that's what you think will be the case) Bradford this year?

These two are the last of the overpaid rookie QBs before the payscale. I find that interesting.

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There isn't a huge difference between Sanchez' career numbers and Bradford's. Not as much as you would think there would be anyway. Neither of them had a great group of guys to throw to on average. Mark has thrown more ints, but has a considerably higher career YPA and slightly higher TD percentage as well.

All in all, with one dude coming off of surgery, and with the other guy having a year in the system - I think this race is a lot closer than it is being made out to be. I understand Sanchez seemed to collapse last year, but he looked pretty good at times too.

you don't think Sanchez has had better targets?

They've both had way below average targets. Kerley and Schilens were top two WRs in 2012. Holmes was #1 in 2011 with 654 yards. Edwards and Holmes in 2010. Cotchery in 2010. Not really a legit #1 in the bunch. Holmes was good once, but not with NY - he had quit by then. Was that group better than the guys Bradford has been throwing to? Maybe, but if so, not by enough to make a huge difference.

Maclin, Matthews, Ertz, Celek, Dustin Keller, Cotchery in his prime was solid

Stephen Hill, Braylon Edwards, probably in line with Rams under-performers

Holmes at 50 catches is still better than a bunch of Rams Wideouts

Also, younger Leon and Sproles were good receiving backs

The top line isn't bad at all and I think that's why Sanchez had his best year.

Well...opinions, I disagree and think Sanchez' were better. I do agree they left plenty to be desired except some in the top line.

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There isn't a huge difference between Sanchez' career numbers and Bradford's. Not as much as you would think there would be anyway. Neither of them had a great group of guys to throw to on average. Mark has thrown more ints, but has a considerably higher career YPA and slightly higher TD percentage as well.

All in all, with one dude coming off of surgery, and with the other guy having a year in the system - I think this race is a lot closer than it is being made out to be. I understand Sanchez seemed to collapse last year, but he looked pretty good at times too.

you don't think Sanchez has had better targets?

They've both had way below average targets. Kerley and Schilens were top two WRs in 2012. Holmes was #1 in 2011 with 654 yards. Edwards and Holmes in 2010. Cotchery in 2010. Not really a legit #1 in the bunch. Holmes was good once, but not with NY - he had quit by then. Was that group better than the guys Bradford has been throwing to? Maybe, but if so, not by enough to make a huge difference.

Maclin, Matthews, Ertz, Celek, Dustin Keller, Cotchery in his prime was solid

Stephen Hill, Braylon Edwards, probably in line with Rams under-performers

Holmes at 50 catches is still better than a bunch of Rams Wideouts

Also, younger Leon and Sproles were good receiving backs

The top line isn't bad at all and I think that's why Sanchez had his best year.

Well...opinions, I disagree and think Sanchez' were better. I do agree they left plenty to be desired except some in the top line.

Yeah I was thinking more of his Jets days, not last year. Those receivers were at least average. But those stats are much better too obviously. But for most of his career, he's had bad receivers. So has Bradford. All I was saying there is that to me it isn't a big differentiation between them in that area that would make you re-look at the stats overall.

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I can't imagine the Eagles not making every attempt to get Bradford on the field as soon as possible. Sanchez is a very average QB who can help a great defense win games like he did early in his career. Bradford though could still turn in to an above average NFL QB and would be night and day versus sanchez likely.

I couldn't stand Sanchez late in his time with the Jets, but he was pretty good last year. There were definitely some impressive games.

I think that is his ceiling, like he is there right now. I don't think time in Chip's offense or anything will elevate it.

The Eagles can afford to bring Sam back when he's ready. If they want the long prolific career he was supposed to have, then there's no reason to rush him.

They have a good to very good D and the potential to have the best rushing attack. Sure it's ideal for Sam to roll through camp with the team and all, but establishing those two facets of the game before he returns could work out beautifully for them. Also sometimes Chip needs to go classic NFL style and ground and pound. His cute offense could use the occasional tweak.

Not so sure, I think he can get batter with more work this off season. Maybe not much better but I think better.

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I like Bradford but I haven't seen anything from his performance in the NFL that convinces me he is appreciably better than Mark Sanchez.

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I like Bradford but I haven't seen anything from his performance in the NFL that convinces me he is appreciably better than Mark Sanchez.

When you look at his 2012 season and the trash he had to throw to you should change your mind. He is far superior.

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I like Bradford but I haven't seen anything from his performance in the NFL that convinces me he is appreciably better than Mark Sanchez.

When you look at his 2012 season and the trash he had to throw to you should change your mind. He is far superior.

:yawn:

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I don't blame people for forgetting because it's been practically 2 years, but Bradford was really starting to turn the corner the first year he went out. Not looking right now, but off memory I believe he played the first full 4 games, and was an impressive 14/4 TD/INT ratio.

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I don't blame people for forgetting because it's been practically 2 years, but Bradford was really starting to turn the corner the first year he went out. Not looking right now, but off memory I believe he played the first full 4 games, and was an impressive 14/4 TD/INT ratio.

He was decent in 2013, the TD:INT ratios were great but his completion % and YPA were mediocre at best (60.7% & 6.4 ypa).

If you want to look at half season numbers Sanchez killed it last year in Philly 64.1% completions, 14 TDs (11 INTs is disappointing however) and a 7.8 YPA. Aside from the INT % those numbers destroy anything Bradford has ever done.

Now, TO BE VERY CLEAR, I am not saying Sanchez >>>>>>>>>> Bradford. In Kelly's system I expect Bradford to improve on his career numbers just like Sanchez did but I think people are just being way too forgiving of Bradford's overall mediocrity (to this point in his career) and way too critical of Sanchez for the same. I am guessing it has something to do with the infamous "butt fumble" (which wasn't nearly as horrible as people try to make it seem) that unfortunately people seem to judge his entire career by that one play (and to a lesser extend I think it has to do with him being in the New York media market and I don't think him being a USC guy helps much either). But regardless of why people don't like him Sanchez has been a very effective QB in both college and the NFL. You can't deny that he has bee a winning QB. And you also can't deny that he played his best NFL football in the playoffs improving on every statistical measurable when it counted most.

AGAIN, TO BE VERY CLEAR, I AM NOT SAYING SANCHEZ>>>>>>>>BRADFORD it's just that Bradford has done nothing at any level that Sanchez hasn't done comparably or even better.

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I don't blame people for forgetting because it's been practically 2 years, but Bradford was really starting to turn the corner the first year he went out. Not looking right now, but off memory I believe he played the first full 4 games, and was an impressive 14/4 TD/INT ratio.

That is a bit high, it would project to 56 TDs in a full season. He tore his ACL (first time) during the CAR game, game 7 or 8 in 2013. I think he was pacing for more like 33/13 (also without looking it up). The counter was that the high TD numbers were comprised of a historical outlier (read - unsustainable) percentage of pass vs. run TDs for the team. The counter to that counter, he was starting to get better weapons, so doing better shouldn't have come as a complete surprise, also, he deserved some credit for putting the team in position to score, even if it is true, typically we would have expected more scores to come by rushing.

There is enough variance and diversity in his body of work (he won Rookie of the Year, but on terrible Y/A average, he couldn't even muster a .500 record in 2010-2011, though he came within a game and a half, he inherited a heinous team that was 15-65 from 2007-2011 [[worst in NFL history?]], but he was part of that the last two seasons, but PFF or Football Outsiders stated the 2011 Rams were the most injured offense of the DECADE, etc., etc., etc., BLAH, BLAH, BLAH) that basically he is the fantasy football equivalent of a Rorshach blot. The evidence can always be ordered in a way that supports the original premise. He is good. He is bad. He is average.

For whatever reason, he is a player who's numbers don't speak unequivocally for themselves. More importantly, his biggest problem he is currently faced with are the consecutive torn ACLs. If that happens again, all this is moot. If he stays healthy, imo he will put up pretty good numbers in PHI. Maybe surprisingly good, in a way that will finally speak for themselves, and he will cease to be such a polarizing and divisive figure. Though of course than some would say he was merely a product of Chip Kelly, and he would be average to bad on any other team (odd, because he received 100% of the blame for not winning more games after inheriting a historically bad team).

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If 100% healthy i think most people would agree that Bradford's better than Sanchez. However, health is a big question mark both start of season and going forward.

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If 100% healthy i think most people would agree that Bradford's better than Sanchez. However, health is a big question mark both start of season and going forward.

I don't disagree but I still don't get what Bradford has done or Sanchez has not done that makes most people think that.

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Shark play by Philly. Hold Bradford back this year, get the conditional third next year, re-sign him to a bargain contract, profit.

Here is the non-homer translation of that sentence:

Hold Bradford this year = waste 13 million that could carry over to next season

get the conditional third next year = by letting him go in free agency and hope he signs a monster contract. They already gave St Louis a 2nd rounder so they lose no matter what.

re-sign him to a bargain contract = No compensation and he could retire a rich man rather than sign for cheap.

profit = use another pick on a QB next year.

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If 100% healthy i think most people would agree that Bradford's better than Sanchez. However, health is a big question mark both start of season and going forward.

I don't disagree but I still don't get what Bradford has done or Sanchez has not done that makes most people think that.

Bradford's looked pretty good at times. Sanchez never really has to me. Played a bit up and down last year but hard to gage in Kelly's offense. I think Sanchez's upside is what we saw last year, maybe a bit better with more time in the offense. I think the thinking is Bradford + health + Kelly's offense could be gold. Whether all comes to fruition remains to be seen.

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it's just that Bradford has done nothing at any level that Sanchez hasn't done comparably or even better.

Did Sanchez set any records as a rookie?

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Cue the hackneyed, cliched, he did it on volume with an ultra-low Y/A average refrain.

There is nothing anybody can say that is going to change minds, until Bradford stays healthy, has an unambiguously good season, improves his completion percentage, raises his Y/A average and WINS. Than it won't be necessary to talk about it, changed minds will happen spontaneously.

Though we (ie - collectively) did previously disabuse people of the notion that the Rams had better WRs than the Packers (Nelson and Cobb were both like top 5-10 last year, what a laugh).

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Cue the hackneyed, cliched, he did it on volume with an ultra-low Y/A average refrain.

There is nothing anybody can say that is going to change minds, until Bradford stays healthy, has an unambiguously good season, improves his completion percentage, raises his Y/A average and WINS. Than it won't be necessary to talk about it, changed minds will happen spontaneously.

Are you sure you know who has to change their minds?

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Cue the hackneyed, cliched, he did it on volume with an ultra-low Y/A average refrain.

Nothing cliche about facts. He set the record for most completions by a rookie by also setting the record for most pass attempts by a rookie and he had a 6.0 YPA while doing it. Those are facts, nothing hackneyed or cliched about them.

And if I mention that Sanchez led the Jets to consecutive AFC Championship games what do you think the "hackneyed, cliched" responses will be?

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Cliche doesn't mean non-factual or untrue, just common or repetitive.

You kind of made my point by repeating it (and by using a yawn smiley yourself above). :)

Kelly's opinion matters most with Sanchez, and imo if he didn't think Bradford was superior (maybe he doesn't break it down by things like rookie Y/A average on a historically bad team, it could be a thousand things, like what subconsciously informs and cues a world class museum-caliber authentication/forgery expert on their judgements and decisions, and similarly the trade end result is a kind of proxy for or crystalization of that knowledge), he probably doesn't make that move. You could be right. You could be wrong. But I find Kelly's tacit backing more compelling.

* BTW, I wasn't addressing you specifically, but that may be confusing as I was responding to a post addressed to you. I was addressing it to the thread at large. Needless to say, others have said that, too (a big part of the reason it is a cliche). But a cliche would be less likely to be a cliche if it was not factual or true. That is how I define it, if you define it differently, I see no point in debating semantics about it.

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Cue the hackneyed, cliched, he did it on volume with an ultra-low Y/A average refrain.

There is nothing anybody can say that is going to change minds, until Bradford stays healthy, has an unambiguously good season, improves his completion percentage, raises his Y/A average and WINS. Than it won't be necessary to talk about it, changed minds will happen spontaneously.

Are you sure you know who has to change their minds?

I don't know where or in which direction individual molecules move, but gather that Brownian motion occurs in general.

If he does better (healthy, higher completion precentage and Y/A average, wins more) in better circumstances, he will predictably be better thought of, independently of the better circumstances in many cases. Converesely, if he doesn't, he won't. Not a controversial suggestion to the thread.

* Some people may not have changed their mind that the Rams don't have better WRs than the Packers, but that is such a fringe position that it is irrelevant.

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Cue the hackneyed, cliched, he did it on volume with an ultra-low Y/A average refrain.

There is nothing anybody can say that is going to change minds, until Bradford stays healthy, has an unambiguously good season, improves his completion percentage, raises his Y/A average and WINS. Than it won't be necessary to talk about it, changed minds will happen spontaneously.

Are you sure you know who has to change their minds?

I don't know where or in which direction individual molecules move, but gather that Brownian motion occurs in general.

If he does better (healthy, higher completion precentage and Y/A average, wins more) in better circumstances, he will predictably be better thought of, independently of the better circumstances in many cases. Converesely, if he doesn't, he won't. Not a controversial suggestion to the thread.

Re-read your sentence. You are implying that Bradford is good, and that the people who don't think he is good will only change their minds when he stops having crappy seasons.

How mediocre will Bradford have to be to make the people who think Bradford is good change their minds?

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Until/if?

If Bradford has another torn ACL and retires, he would be unable to meet the conditions set forth by which people might think differently or change their minds. I wasn't assuming anything to the contrary, that he will absolutely, positively, definitely do it. That is what the word in the reponse post *IF* was intended to convey, it is a conditional. If he does better, many people will probably think he is better. If he does worse, they will probably think he is worse. If he does the same, they will probably think about the same. Again, not a really edgy, controversial, avant garde position.

To answer your question, if he does worse than Sanchez or Foles in 2014, being close to a direct comparison (Maclin in KC and McCoy in BUF, so not exact, but they added the rookie WR from USC and vet RBs Murray/Mathews to compensate), IMO that will be a serious indictment of his future, and almost certainly change some minds. Just as if he finishes top 10 (on a per game basis, don't know if he starts week one, contingent on the ACL rehab status), that will likely change minds, too. Some.

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