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Get Your Money out of the Market (1 Viewer)

Our currency is designed to collapse eventually. It is a naked shorting assetless ponzi scheme. But to predict when it will collapse takes crystal balls. There's a lot of risk that it could happen over the next few months, but it's also possible that central banks around the world will pull another rabbit out of their bag of tricks. When their bag of tricks becomes empty, then the collapse comes. That could be many years from now, but it will happen eventually.

 
'Politician Spock said:
Our currency is designed to collapse eventually. It is a naked shorting assetless ponzi scheme. But to predict when it will collapse takes crystal balls. There's a lot of risk that it could happen over the next few months, but it's also possible that central banks around the world will pull another rabbit out of their bag of tricks. When their bag of tricks becomes empty, then the collapse comes. That could be many years from now, but it will happen eventually.
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I read this twice and I couldnt figure out why they were taking a Rabbi out of their bag of tricks.
 
'LHUCKS said:
'The Ref said:
Only problem is the Bernake may run the press with QE3 to sned the market higher into year end.

Timing is everything.
Click to expand...
There will definitely be a QE3 and the timing of that will obviously effect the severity of the dip but make no mistake, a dip is coming. The only question is how big.
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Bold prediction: The stock market will drop by some amount at some point in the future. Genius!
 
U.S. stocks applaud ECB’s bond-buying plan S&P 500 index surges to four-year high

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks rallied Thursday, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average on pace for its highest close since late 2007, as Europe detailed a bond-buying plan and economic data raised expectations a day ahead of the monthly payrolls report.

In Frankfurt, European Central Bank President Mario Draghi said policy makers agreed to unlimited bond purchases as the central bank looked to gain the upper hand on borrowing costs in debt-stricken euro nations.

“What today’s program brings is mitigation of some of the flash points, namely Italy and Spain. This will buy these countries time and not have their hair on fire with rates shooting up and not being able to self-fund themselves in the public market,” said Jim Russell, chief equity strategist for US Bank Wealth Management.

“They are addressing that risk, and the markets are giving a standing ovation,” he added.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA +1.68% surged 232.83 points, or 1.8%, to 13,280.47, with all 30 of its components rising and Bank of America Corp. BAC +4.28% leading the gains after the bank agreed to sell Strategic Partners Inc. to private-equity investors.

The S&P 500 index SPX +1.88% rose 26.64 points, or 1.9%, to 1,430.08, with materials pacing the gains that extended to all 10 of its sectors.

The Nasdaq Composite COMP +2.06% climbed 64.29 points, or 2%, to 3,131.84.

For every stock sliding more than four gained on the New York Stock Exchange, where 302 million shares traded as of 12:30 p.m. Composite volume neared 2 billion.

Crude prices neared $97 a barrel, with oil futures CLV2 +0.19% lately up $1.37 at $96.73 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

U.S. jobless claims fell last week as more Americans found employment than estimated, two reports said Thursday, one day before the August payrolls report. Read more on jobless claims.

“Hitting that 200,000 certainly catches the street’s attention,” said Andrew Fitzpatrick, director of investments at Hinsdale Associates Inc., of ADP Employer Services’s finding U.S. companies added 201,000 to payrolls last month, the largest jump in five months. Read ADP story.

Separately, the government said its count of Americans filing for jobless benefits declined by 12,000 to 365,000 last week. See details of claims report.

And, a gauge of activity in the services industry also came in better than anticipated, rising to 53.7% in August.

Market Watch
Click to expand...
 
'LHUCKS said:
There will definitely be a QE3 and the timing of that will obviously effect the severity of the dip but make no mistake, a dip is coming. The only question is how big.
Click to expand...
So you have no idea when to get back in?
 
Just received some breaking News from CNN...

U.S. stocks surged Thursday, with all three major indexes closing at the highest levels in years, as optimistic investors went on a buying spree.

A combination of stronger-than-expected data on the job market and the European Central Bank's bond-buying program provided the momentum. The Dow Jones industrial average closed more than 240 points higher.

The rally comes a day ahead of Friday's monthly jobs report and hours before President Barack Obama makes his case for re-election in a convention speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination.

Follow complete coverage of the convention, including key speeches carried live, on CNN TV, CNN.com and CNN's mobile apps.
Click to expand...
 
'Fennis said:
'Politician Spock said:
Our currency is designed to collapse eventually. It is a naked shorting assetless ponzi scheme. But to predict when it will collapse takes crystal balls. There's a lot of risk that it could happen over the next few months, but it's also possible that central banks around the world will pull another rabbit out of their bag of tricks. When their bag of tricks becomes empty, then the collapse comes. That could be many years from now, but it will happen eventually.
Click to expand...
I read this twice and I couldnt figure out why they were taking a Rabbi out of their bag of tricks.
Click to expand...
Maybe they needed some prayer for the billions in naked shorts they've just committed to?
 
'phishphan said:
Just received some breaking News from CNN...

U.S. stocks surged Thursday, with all three major indexes closing at the highest levels in years, as optimistic investors went on a buying spree.

A combination of stronger-than-expected data on the job market and the European Central Bank's bond-buying program provided the momentum. The Dow Jones industrial average closed more than 240 points higher.

The rally comes a day ahead of Friday's monthly jobs report and hours before President Barack Obama makes his case for re-election in a convention speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination.

Follow complete coverage of the convention, including key speeches carried live, on CNN TV, CNN.com and CNN's mobile apps.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
My link
 
You guys are overreacting a bit, don't you think? He said "over the next four months." It's day 2.

Can't wait until you guys are clubbing each other with bats over the last few cans of soup at the supermarket, come January. :wave:

 
'Sand said:
'Politician Spock said:
Our currency is designed to collapse eventually. It is a naked shorting assetless ponzi scheme.
Click to expand...
Oh, please.
Click to expand...
When you have a stock brokerage firm hold your 20,000 shares of stock, and they loan it to someone else so they can exchange it for money, that is called shorting a stock. But when you have a bank hold your $20,000, and they loan it to someone else so they can exchange it for a car, that is called a lending.

Shorting = lending

When you have a stock brokerage firm hold your 20,000 shares of a stock and they use it to create 200,000 shares of that stock that is then loaned to someone else so they can exchange it for money, that is called naked shorting a stock.

But when you have a bank hold your $20,000 and they use it to create $200,000 that is then loaned to someone else so they can exchange it for a house, that is called fractional reserve lending.

Naked shorting = fractional reserve lending

Paper currency began when people deposited their gold in a bank and were given receipts for their gold deposits. The banks began fractional reserve lending the gold. People also began trading the receipts for gold for goods and services, and hence the paper receipts became currency. So people began depositing their paper currency in banks too, to protect it from theft. So banks began fractional reserve lending the paper currency too. Then there was so much fractional reserve lending of the gold, and of the paper receipts for that gold, that people began wanting to turn in the receipts for the gold. But given there was far more receipts than there was gold, the government had to make possession of gold illegal for US citizens (1933). Then other countries were wanting to turn in the receipts for the gold, and Nixon had to put an end to that 1971. Ever since, the receipts are good for nothing. There is no asset that the receipt is good for.

No gold standard = assetless

With an assetless currency system, every US Dollar that exists was borrowed into existence. The government either borrows dollars into existence when it borrows from the central bank (this accounts for 5 to 7% of all dollars in existence), or people borrow dollars into existence when they borrow from a private bank (this accounts for 93 to 95% of all dollars in existence).

Once it is understood that in our current currency system every dollar has been borrowed into existence, we can see that it is the interest due that causes the system to eventually fail.

Think for a moment about this scenario:

If there is only $1 in existence, and it was borrowed into existence so that someone could buy a $1 house, and he agreed to pay back the $1 over 30 years with an interest rate that produced $1 in accrued interest over 30 years, how will the person pay back the original $1 loan AND the $1 in interest accrued, WHEN there is only $1 in existence?

The answer is another $1 MUST be borrowed into existence over the next 30 years.

Now, if there are $1 trillion in existence, and it was borrowed into existence so that many people could buy houses, cars and such, and they agreed to pay back the $1 trillion over 30 years with $1 trillion in accrued interest, how will they pay back the original $1 trillion and the $1 trillion in interest accrued, when there is only $1 trillion in existence?

The answer is another $1 trillion MUST be borrowed into existence over the next 30 years.

It doesn't matter what amount you use $1, $10, $100, $1000, $1 million, $ trillion, $1 quadrillion, etc, etc.... The premise will always be more dollars must be borrowed into existence.

The amount of money that at a bare minimum must be borrowed into existence every year is the amount of interest due over the next year. If anything less than this amount is borrowed into existence, the people will struggle to find the dollars to pay their debts, because there is not enough dollars in existence to pay the debt, and the economy would experience a deflationary depression.

When ever the people don't borrow enough, the government has to make up the difference. It borrows and spends into the economy the amount that the people are failing to borrow and spend into existence to keep the system going. Debt must increase, or the currency system fails.

The trillions that Obama has borrowed and spent were necessary for the system. It didn't matter who was elected president in 2008. McCain would have had to borrow and spend the same amount. It doesn't matter who is elected in 2012. They will need to borrow and spend the same amount to keep the currency system afloat.

Interest bearing debt based currency = ponzi scheme

Thus our currency is a naked shorting assetless ponzi scheme. For anyone to suggest it is otherwise, I respond to them "Oh, please"

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Good said:
You guys are overreacting a bit, don't you think? He said "over the next four months." It's day 2.Can't wait until you guys are clubbing each other with bats over the last few cans of soup at the supermarket, come January. :wave:
Click to expand...
It's a beautiful thing isn't it?
 
'LHUCKS said:
'Good said:
You guys are overreacting a bit, don't you think? He said "over the next four months." It's day 2.Can't wait until you guys are clubbing each other with bats over the last few cans of soup at the supermarket, come January. :wave:
Click to expand...
It's a beautiful thing isn't it?
Click to expand...
GPJ Plan For the Apocalypse:1) Pull all :moneybag: out of index funds, 401Ks, college fund for child, savings accounts, etc.2) Put it all on Lions -7.3) :moneybag: :moneybag:4) Use :moneybag: :moneybag: to buy guns, non-perishable foods, gold, oxen, wheat pennies. Possibly a harem too. :blackdot:
 
'NCCommish said:
U.S. stocks applaud ECB’s bond-buying plan S&P 500 index surges to four-year high

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks rallied Thursday, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average on pace for its highest close since late 2007, as Europe detailed a bond-buying plan and economic data raised expectations a day ahead of the monthly payrolls report.

In Frankfurt, European Central Bank President Mario Draghi said policy makers agreed to unlimited bond purchases as the central bank looked to gain the upper hand on borrowing costs in debt-stricken euro nations.

“What today’s program brings is mitigation of some of the flash points, namely Italy and Spain. This will buy these countries time and not have their hair on fire with rates shooting up and not being able to self-fund themselves in the public market,” said Jim Russell, chief equity strategist for US Bank Wealth Management.

“They are addressing that risk, and the markets are giving a standing ovation,” he added.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA +1.68% surged 232.83 points, or 1.8%, to 13,280.47, with all 30 of its components rising and Bank of America Corp. BAC +4.28% leading the gains after the bank agreed to sell Strategic Partners Inc. to private-equity investors.

The S&P 500 index SPX +1.88% rose 26.64 points, or 1.9%, to 1,430.08, with materials pacing the gains that extended to all 10 of its sectors.

The Nasdaq Composite COMP +2.06% climbed 64.29 points, or 2%, to 3,131.84.

For every stock sliding more than four gained on the New York Stock Exchange, where 302 million shares traded as of 12:30 p.m. Composite volume neared 2 billion.

Crude prices neared $97 a barrel, with oil futures CLV2 +0.19% lately up $1.37 at $96.73 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

U.S. jobless claims fell last week as more Americans found employment than estimated, two reports said Thursday, one day before the August payrolls report. Read more on jobless claims.

“Hitting that 200,000 certainly catches the street’s attention,” said Andrew Fitzpatrick, director of investments at Hinsdale Associates Inc., of ADP Employer Services’s finding U.S. companies added 201,000 to payrolls last month, the largest jump in five months. Read ADP story.

Separately, the government said its count of Americans filing for jobless benefits declined by 12,000 to 365,000 last week. See details of claims report.

And, a gauge of activity in the services industry also came in better than anticipated, rising to 53.7% in August.

doubling down.

Market Watch
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
really, a 4 year high eh. please lhucks tell me you are doubling down.

 
'siffoin said:
I would implore anyone thinking of taking a position in 3x funds to re-think that. You can do a little research right here and go back in the stock threads and you'll find that there probably isn't a single worse single pick (long or short) than the 3x ETFs. If you do want to go with an aggressive position- you should instead investigate Emini future contracts - of which trade with the SP500, Nasdaq, and Dow. Emini futures are not difficult to trade and unlike the 3x ETFs trade close to 24 hours a day 5.5 days a week (they open Sunday evening and trade through Friday). 3x ETFs is a major Risk V Reward bet. It is a risky play. So is playing Emini futures. But if you are going to accept the risk you might as well get the most reward.Let's compare 2 recent trades. One using the SPXU (3x Short Sp500) and we'll compare that against the ES (the SP500 Emini futures contract)...based off the timing of my own "Perfect Bull Market/Bear Market Indicator" which showed the market turning bearish on April 27, 2012 and bearish till June 29, 2012. We'll invest approximately the same amount into each posiion and compare the results. So the question we want answered is: What performs better in the same market environment with the same amount invested... The SPXU or the ES?Long SPXU @ the close of 4/27 @ $45.10 and Closed on 6/29 @ $47.21. For a profit of $2.11. A 100 share lot invested would cost $4510.00. Total profit on the trade would be $211.00 and you'd have a ROI of 4.6%. Short ES taken @ the close of 4/27 @ 1398 and Closed on 6/29 @ 1356. For a profit of 42pts. 1 ES contract will cost you about $4000. Every point gained will net you $50. So a gain of 42pts x $50 gives us a profit of $2100 and you'd have a ROI of 52.5% THAT'S MORE THAN 10X THE AMOUNT GAINED FROM THE SPXU 3X ETF FOR THE SAME AMOUNT INVESTED.The "Ultra" style ETFs are for losers. They are not a sophisticated trade in any sense of the word...carry a substantial amount of risk and offer little in the form of reward.Oh and that Perfect Bull/Bear Indicator...well it is still Bullish from 6/29....it would take a week of hard selling for it to turn bearish again.
Click to expand...
Whats the risk exposure on these instruments if the market turns against you?
 
Interesting timing for this thread...I'm finally getting my 401k setup and allocating a % of my pay to go there. My rational - even if there is another correction, I want to be in the market because I want to be buying all I can right now. In fact, while my other investments wouldn't love it, I wouldn't mind getting some more cheap stocks, I have a ways to go till retirement age.

Not worried about the market right now. Also not worried about the Fractional Reserve Banking that Spock is so worried about - if it is so bad, why is that the primary banking method in most countries? Everyone is an idiot? While that is a possibility, I'd prefer to believe that it has proven to be, at least in recent times, the best choice to an expanding market and allows for capital growth, given a strong central authority to manage things. Admittedly I am not an expert, and i don't know a ton about the alternatives, but I believe forcing banks to hold 100% of the $ they lend would lead to a very constricted market and money supply, right? Basically lending as we know it wouldn't really exist, it would encourage saving. So maybe it would lead to a financial system where no one is as "well-off" financially as they "appear" to be today, but where everyone is more stable financially due to the limited debt load. It would be harder (slower) to build wealth though, I would think.

Anyways, speculation aside, we have tried a number of different banking methods in the US alone, much less if you include other countries through history. The question remains, why have most modern governments landed on FRB if it is so bad?

Maybe instead of deriding the current system, you could outlay the alternatives to it and why they would prove to be a better system?

 
'dparker713 said:
'siffoin said:
I would implore anyone thinking of taking a position in 3x funds to re-think that. You can do a little research right here and go back in the stock threads and you'll find that there probably isn't a single worse single pick (long or short) than the 3x ETFs. If you do want to go with an aggressive position- you should instead investigate Emini future contracts - of which trade with the SP500, Nasdaq, and Dow. Emini futures are not difficult to trade and unlike the 3x ETFs trade close to 24 hours a day 5.5 days a week (they open Sunday evening and trade through Friday). 3x ETFs is a major Risk V Reward bet. It is a risky play. So is playing Emini futures. But if you are going to accept the risk you might as well get the most reward.Let's compare 2 recent trades. One using the SPXU (3x Short Sp500) and we'll compare that against the ES (the SP500 Emini futures contract)...based off the timing of my own "Perfect Bull Market/Bear Market Indicator" which showed the market turning bearish on April 27, 2012 and bearish till June 29, 2012. We'll invest approximately the same amount into each posiion and compare the results. So the question we want answered is: What performs better in the same market environment with the same amount invested... The SPXU or the ES?Long SPXU @ the close of 4/27 @ $45.10 and Closed on 6/29 @ $47.21. For a profit of $2.11. A 100 share lot invested would cost $4510.00. Total profit on the trade would be $211.00 and you'd have a ROI of 4.6%. Short ES taken @ the close of 4/27 @ 1398 and Closed on 6/29 @ 1356. For a profit of 42pts. 1 ES contract will cost you about $4000. Every point gained will net you $50. So a gain of 42pts x $50 gives us a profit of $2100 and you'd have a ROI of 52.5% THAT'S MORE THAN 10X THE AMOUNT GAINED FROM THE SPXU 3X ETF FOR THE SAME AMOUNT INVESTED.The "Ultra" style ETFs are for losers. They are not a sophisticated trade in any sense of the word...carry a substantial amount of risk and offer little in the form of reward.Oh and that Perfect Bull/Bear Indicator...well it is still Bullish from 6/29....it would take a week of hard selling for it to turn bearish again.
Click to expand...
Whats the risk exposure on these instruments if the market turns against you?
Click to expand...
It's $50 per point per contract for the SP500 emini, $20 per point for the Nasdaq emini, $5 per point for the DOW emini. If the market turns against you the formula looks like this: (Stop loss x $50). Holding these when the market is moving against your position is not very pleasant - and I did a twitter write up back in July on how I manage (and profit) when it does. Make no mistake...emini futures are a risky game...VERY risky. 3x Ultra ETFs are also a risky play...but at least with emini your position doesn't bleed against you even when you are right with your market timing and direction. Used properly eminis can be major portfolio accelerators. Used wrong and you'll go broke. I'm not necessarily recommending anyone move towards using these instruments.
 
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