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QB Matt Stafford, LAR (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dr. Awesome
- Start date
Definitely sitting Stafford.
Lot of options:
* T. Siemian @OAK -- Oakland has no D.
* S. Bradford vs DET -- Great matchup.
* M. Mariota @SD -- Not a great matchup but could run.
* R. Tannehill vs NYJ -- Horrible secondary.
Hell, C. Kaepernick may be a good sub in a game of catchup at home vs NO where he's running and throwing.
Lot of options:
* T. Siemian @OAK -- Oakland has no D.
* S. Bradford vs DET -- Great matchup.
* M. Mariota @SD -- Not a great matchup but could run.
* R. Tannehill vs NYJ -- Horrible secondary.
Hell, C. Kaepernick may be a good sub in a game of catchup at home vs NO where he's running and throwing.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Bottom line for Stafford from a legacy standpoint:
He's not top 5 elite, but he's clearly in that QB6-QB10 range (RL not fantasy.) He's got a cannon arm, he's poised, he's a good leader in the clubhouse and community - but he's not great. Maybe he just is what he is. But tonight he has a chance to change a lot of perceptions about him and about the team. We'll find out soon enough.
- beat >.500 teams on the road (3-25 lifetime, 0-4 in 2016)
- beat the Packers (won 3 out of 4, then lost the last 3)
- win the division (0/8)
- win playoff games (0/2)
He's not top 5 elite, but he's clearly in that QB6-QB10 range (RL not fantasy.) He's got a cannon arm, he's poised, he's a good leader in the clubhouse and community - but he's not great. Maybe he just is what he is. But tonight he has a chance to change a lot of perceptions about him and about the team. We'll find out soon enough.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Stafford has carried that team on his back. Maybe blame the rash of top 5 picks just before the rookie contract changes and the team talent suffering because they were paying Stafford/megatron/suh a good chunk of the salary cap. For all the 4th quarter comeback wins he's had, there are a good number of games that he brought the team back to get the go ahead score, only to have the defense fold in the last 1:30 and give up the game winning score. It seems the closer to Detroit you get the more underrated he gets. People around here were asking Quinn if Stafford would be traded in his first press conference, and he almost laughed. There are people in the state that think we should be rolling out Rudock for crying out loud. I'm not saying he's better than luck/cam, but he isn't as terrible as some of his own fans think.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I was just being snarky. Matthew is the best Lions quarterback I've ever seen, but I've only been a fan for 50 seasons. You're correct he gets criticized a lot around the D - I haven't lived in the area for 18 years, but I'm amazed when I listen to local sports talk on TunedIn.
He does a lot of things well. His efficiency has improved under JBC & he's much better in his decision making. He also has a lot of intangibles you hope for in a franchise QB: he has been the unquestioned leader from Day One, and has earned the respect of his teammates. Tough as nails and durable.
From a legacy standpoint, his volume & compiles stats will have him approaching HoF numbers in the next 3-5 season. Obvious holes in the resume: winning road games versus playoff teams, division titles, playoff wins. If he adds a ring he's a lock IMO.
Not elite? Perhaps. But better than most. For richer or poorer, he's our quarterback.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Yeah that wasn't supposed to be aimed at you, just my take on the fans view of Stafford. The 12 years before Stafford we started something like 24 qbs, the list is abhorrent. We get a guy who can play and the fans generally want to throw him under the bus. Same as people saying colt mccoy=Kirk cousins. Then the u of m fans that have never even set foot in Ann Arbor bang the drum for rudock. That's....rudockulous.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
With Romo and Peyton gone and the final years of Brady, Brees, Eli, Rivers, Ben, Palmer nearing, Stafford has a lot of weight to carry for the league. He needs to continue to grow and be a top 10 QB. In 3 years, who do we expect are top NFL QBs?
Rodgers, Wilson, Luck, Cam, Dak, Stafford, Ryan, Cousins, Mariota, Carr, Winston all seem to have made the best cases so far. Anyone else?
Rodgers, Wilson, Luck, Cam, Dak, Stafford, Ryan, Cousins, Mariota, Carr, Winston all seem to have made the best cases so far. Anyone else?
Snorkelson
Footballguy
In 3 years? Brady still winning the AFC east easily. Why wouldn't he keep playing vs the qbs in that he's competing against in that division. Maybe stick dalton in there? He's had some decent years and seems to fly under the radar. One vote for the red rifle.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Good call on Dalton, he's in the mix. As for Brady, he will be 40 this season. I just have a hard time seeing him still playing at 43. That's really old.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
That was kind of tongue in cheek, but vs the jets bills and phins why not? Dolphins had a nice season but are they ascending? Seems like those teams have a ways to go while the pats are a good rb away from a nice 3 year window for Brady to legitimately consider.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Tyrod and wentz are probably the only others I think could break into that group, maybe tannehill or bortles if they can take the step everyone has been waiting for. All 4 of those guys have had moments and are still young but aren't quite there.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Wentz is a total unknown. He had a few good games to start but then turned into a very typical rookie. I like Tyrod a lot but it doesn't seem any NFL GMs do.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Some people make it sound like wentz is just phenomenal. Especially when talking about how Cleveland could have had him instead of the 7 qbs they played last year. But I agree, he had some good games but leveled off as the season wore on.
I also agree on Tyrod, everyone wants to know who the next dak is, but TT was the last dak, he just doesn't have the supporting cast. Can't believe Whaley was going to let him walk before Mcdermott basically one upped him. Put Rodgers out there with woods/Goodwin/clay with rbs that don't really catch many passes out of the backfield and see how good he looks. Of course, just like with Stafford, the team isn't winning as much as the fans expect, so naturally, let's blame the qb.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Agree on all accounts. Wentz had some really bad numbers: bottom 5 in yards/attempt (only Osweiler was worse), QBR and worst TD% and for a QBs that played most of the season, his TD:INT ratio was awful. Like you said about Tyrod though, his supporting cast was questionable. Ertz and JMatt battled injuries much of the year. There were absolutely no outside WRs that could do anything. The addition of Alshon, Smith and whatever they do in the draft a long with a year of growth should help us get a clear picture of who Wentz is.
As for Tyrod, it's a great point. I don't think there was a team in the league with worse passing options than Buffalo. Even the Rams had better weapons. Tyrod was top 10 in QBR (accounts for rushing) and middle of the road in stats like TD%, yards/attempt, etc. I don't know if Tyrod would ever be able to reach Russell Wilson levels of success, but he's the closest thing in the league. If I was the Bills, I would be happy to build around him. Maybe he has a bad personality or there is some intangible we can't see that turns teams off.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
the wall comes fast, sometimes you don't see it. Actually he is due for an injury...Favre never got injured....until he did...
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Consecutive starts for a QB is maybe the least impressive statistic - you showed up for work this week, congrats? - but in two more years the all-time longest streak list could read:
1. Peyton
2. Eli
3. Favre
4. Rivers
5. Ryan
6. Flacco
7. Stafford
1. Peyton
2. Eli
3. Favre
4. Rivers
5. Ryan
6. Flacco
7. Stafford
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Funny because after his first 2 seasons people were wondering if Stafford was made of glass.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
"Injury-prone" is one of the most useless descriptions. You are healthy until you are not. This is why the backup QB is so important, Lions would have lost a bunch more games last year with what they had behind Stafford.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Unless it is a similar injury that keeps re-occuring, I totally agree. Most injuries are just bad luck and not a result of any kind of physical weakness.
Faust
MVP
WagesOfZin
Footballguy
just pay the guy and get it over with.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The Captain
Footballguy
Considering where QB salaries are headed this is going to look like a bargain in a year. Good move for the Lions. Now surround him with some more talent.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
True, and it's not just where QB salaries are headed but it's also the direction the salary cap is headed. People choke on the number but all that really matters is the % of the salary cap and the market to replace the player. Go look at the number of teams out there that are starting QB's over 34yo and the teams that are praying that the young QB(they probably overspent draft capital to acquire) that is completely unproven will pan out. The demand is huge in the next few years and the supply is small. That's why people that want to argue Cousins may not find anyone that wants to pay him $24mil/season are really being a little short sighted imo.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
He's taken them to the playoffs, so by "haven't won squat" do you mean he hasn't won a SB?
need2know
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Bottom line for Stafford from a legacy standpoint:
He's not top 5 elite, but he's clearly in that QB6-QB10 range (RL not fantasy.) He's got a cannon arm, he's poised, he's a good leader in the clubhouse and community - but he's not great. Maybe he just is what he is. But to change perceptions about himself, he needs division titles and playoff wins.
Active QBs with rings: Brady, Ben, Manning have multiple rings. Flacco, Rodgers, Wilson and Brees have one. Eighteen active QBs in the league have won playoff game, fourteen are starters right now.
Thirteen (13!) franchises have never won a Super Bowl. Of the four teams that have never been to the SB, only the Lions were around when the AFL-NFL Championship Game was founded (wink, wink, oh - and the Browns.) The Detroit Lions, Cleveland Browns (current iteration), Jacksonville Jaguars, and Houston Texans are the only current teams to have never played in a Super Bowl. So let's be real - dude plays for a cursed team, and there's only so much that's under his control.
- beat >.500 teams on the road (3-26 lifetime, 0-5 in 2016)
- beat the Packers (won 3 out of 4, then lost the last 3)
- win the division (0/8)
- win playoff games (0/3)
He's not top 5 elite, but he's clearly in that QB6-QB10 range (RL not fantasy.) He's got a cannon arm, he's poised, he's a good leader in the clubhouse and community - but he's not great. Maybe he just is what he is. But to change perceptions about himself, he needs division titles and playoff wins.
Active QBs with rings: Brady, Ben, Manning have multiple rings. Flacco, Rodgers, Wilson and Brees have one. Eighteen active QBs in the league have won playoff game, fourteen are starters right now.
Thirteen (13!) franchises have never won a Super Bowl. Of the four teams that have never been to the SB, only the Lions were around when the AFL-NFL Championship Game was founded (wink, wink, oh - and the Browns.) The Detroit Lions, Cleveland Browns (current iteration), Jacksonville Jaguars, and Houston Texans are the only current teams to have never played in a Super Bowl. So let's be real - dude plays for a cursed team, and there's only so much that's under his control.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Only Brees, Brady, Eli and Ben have more 4th quarter comebacks than Stafford. He's a good QB but I'm not sure any QB would have won with the teams he has had around him. 3 years ago, the team was pretty talented and I thought Detroit really should have won that Dallas game. PI was the right cal and I don't think I have ever seen a penalty called on the field and then picked up like that.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Why ya gotta do that bro?
My 51st year being a Lions fan. That was one of the worst ever.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Still eats at me. The universe seems to have some sort of agency that it uses to keep the Lions down. Has there ever been a controversial play that went in Detroit's favor? The Calvin rule, the Seahawks end zone play, the penalty that wasn't against Dallas...always seems to go against the Lions.Why ya gotta do that bro?
My 51st year being a Lions fan. That was one of the worst ever.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Growing up, they did it to themselves. Landry burns a time out too quick instead of running the clock down, gives the Saints enough time to run one out route and kick a 63 yard FG. Vikings blocking a chip shot FG as time ran out. Bears OT Kickoff Return walk off win. Murray missing the playoff game FG while Monte is praying. Favre tp Sharpe. Barry going 13-(-1)-0 in Lambeau. Lomas and his stupid mouth (@Philadelphia.) Losing to a 5-win Bears team at home when they needed a win to get in. Orlovsky stepping out the back of the end zone. Suh missing an XP when Hanson was hurt. Schwartz challenge on Forsett.Still eats at me. The universe seems to have some sort of agency that it uses to keep the Lions down. Has there ever been a controversial play that went in Detroit's favor? The Calvin rule, the Seahawks end zone play, the penalty that wasn't against Dallas...always seems to go against the Lions.Why ya gotta do that bro?
My 51st year being a Lions fan. That was one of the worst ever.
But the last few years...
- Calvin not completing the process
- Dallas no-call pick up the flag
- Seattle batted ball
- Devin Taylor non-facemask setting up the untimed Rodgers Hail Mary
Now for some positivity...(Mike O'Hara, one of the most cynical writers around)
Code:
1. Rookie shoulders the load
Week 11, 2009
Lions 38, Browns 37.
Storyline: Stafford’s stats were huge – 422 yards and five TDs -- but what he went through to throw the game-winning TD pass made his performance memorable.
Stafford took a crunching hit on his left shoulder from Browns defensive tackle C.J. Mosley on a long pass into the end zone that was incomplete and would have been the last play in a Lions loss. However, pass interference against the Browns gave the Lions the ball at the one-yard line with no time on the clock.
Stafford was writhing in agony on the field from the hit, and backup Daunte Culpepper was sent into the game. But during the stoppage Stafford campaigned to coaches and the medical staff to stay in.
“I can play!” he insisted, still on his back. “Help me up. I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball.”
Stafford stayed in and hit rookie tight end Brandon Pettigrew in the end zone to tie the game. Stafford jogged slowly to the bench, his left arm dangling, where he watched Jason Hanson make the winning extra point.
“Come on, J Hanson,” Stafford said. “That’s what they pay you for.”
2. Christmas Eve clincher
Week 16, 2011
Lions 38, Chargers 10.
Storyline: The Lions had been out of the playoffs since 1999, and Stafford was fully recovered from injuries that limited him to 13 games his first two seasons. He was on the way to a 5,000-yard passing season.
Stafford shredded the Chargers from the start, completing 21 of 26 passes for 260 yards and three TDs in the first half as the Lions sprinted to a 24-0 lead and cruised to clinch a Wild Card berth.
Pressure? What pressure?
3. Fake spike over Dallas
Week 8, 2013
Lions 31, Cowboys 30
Storyline: Sleight of hand, fast thinking and quick feet put the cap on a 24-point fourth quarter that gave the Lions the one-point win.
They started their last possession at their 20, facing a 30-24 deficit with 1:02 left.
“You’ve got plenty of time,” offensive coordinator Scott Linehan told Stafford before the drive started.
As Stafford would prove over and over in the comeback wins that have highlighted his career, 62 seconds were an eternity, even without a timeout available to stop the clock.
Three pass completions and a spike put the ball at the Cowboys’ 23, and a fourth completion to Calvin Johnson put it at the one with 14 seconds left. As the offense raced into position with the clock running, Stafford got ready to spike the ball – until he noticed that the Cowboys’ defenders were on their heels, expecting the clock-killing spike.
He took the snap and leaped over the left side of the line for the tying touchdown with 12 seconds left. David Akers added the winning extra point.
Sidebar stat: Johnson’s 329 receiving yards, on 14 catches, were the most ever in regulation time.
4. Lambeau streak snapped
Week 10, 2015
Lions 18, Packers 16
Storyline: There was nothing to cheer about in the first half of the season, as the Lions wobbled to the bye with a 1-7 record. Prospects were dim for them to break a 24-game road losing streak to the Packers when they returned to action.
It was not a perfect game for either team, and not one of Stafford’s best performances statistically. But he threw two TD passes against an interception, including the four-yard TD pass to Lance Moore with 1:57 left that held up as the winning points in a bizarre ending.
Bottom line: One of the worst streaks in franchise history had ended. It was a team accomplishment.
5. 23-second drill
Week 9, 2016
Lions 22, Vikings 16
VIEW GALLERY | 10 Photos
Matthew Stafford headshots
Storyline: The Lions appeared beaten when the Vikings scored to take a 16-13 lead with 23 seconds left.
But they weren’t finished – even without a timeout and starting their last-hope possession at their 25 with 23 seconds left.
Two throws and a kick changed everything.
A sideline pass to Golden Tate gained eight yards, then a shot down the middle to Andre Roberts gained 28 to the Vikings’ 40. After a spike, Matt Prater made it 16-16 with a 58-yard field goal as time ran out.
In overtime Stafford drove the Lions to the winning TD – a 28-yard catch and run by Golden Tate.
6. Opening night magic
Week 1, 2014
Lions 35, Giants 14
Storyline: New head coach in Jim Caldwell. New offensive system designed to fit Stafford. Monday Night TV.
The setting was perfect, and the all-around performance in the season curtain-raiser got rave reviews.
Stafford threw TD passes of 67 and 16 yards to Megatron in the first 10 minutes. For the game he threw for 325 yards and a passer rating of 125.3.
It didn’t last – offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi was fired halfway through the next season – but it was a night of hope on the way to an 11-5 record and a Wild Card berth.
7. Ice breaker
Week 3, 2009
Lions 19, Washington 14.
VIEW GALLERY | 40 Photos
Best of: Matthew Stafford photos
Storyline: The Lions had lost 19 straight games and 25 of the previous 26 when Stafford led them to a 19-14 victory at Ford field. The stats weren’t eye-popping – 21 of 36 for 241 yards and a TD, but there was one play that was a sign of what was to come.
On second and nine at the Lions’ 21, Stafford hit backup tight end Will Heller for 24 yards and a first down at the 45 with 2:21 left. Washington didn’t get the ball for a final possession until there was 1:05 left.
Without a timeout, the Lions were able to keep Washington from scoring and give the Lions their first win under their budding franchise quarterback.
8. Comeback quiets Raider Nation
Week 15, 2011
Lions 28, Raiders 27
Storyline: The Lions were in the playoff race with three games left when they went on the road to play the Raiders. Stafford threw four TD passes without a pick, and had thrown two when disaster struck midway through the fourth quarter. Stafford was sacked and fumbled. The Raiders’ Aaron Curry returned it for a TD and a 27-14 Raiders lead.
A playoff berth seemed to be slipping away.
Stafford was unfazed, leading two straight scoring drives with TD passes -- first to Titus Young, then to Johnson on a 98-yard drive that started at the two with 2:14 left.
In a season-saving drive, Stafford completed five of seven passes for 101 yards (there were two penalties in the drive to account for the extra yards). The Lions won it on a six-yard TD pass to Johnson with 39 seconds left, plus the extra point.Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Can't blame MS for the history of The Detroit Lions. The fact is they have never in most of our lifetimes put together a complete team, either before or with him. Every year since Barry retired almost 20 years ago they have had a running game in the bottom quarter of the league. Somebody print me out a list of teams (or QBs) that have won anything with that kind of putrid rushing attack. In a recent NFL top 100 player list, Lions had one (1) player that made the list. Guess who was the 1 (one) bum that made that list?
These are not excuses, they are reasons.
These are not excuses, they are reasons.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Bobby how are you ? Have you got a link to that article ? Very enjoyable read. One of my faves was the fake spike drive, earlier on in that drive Stafford lasered a pass to Durham I remember looking at it and wondering if there was another QB in the league that could have thrown that ball with such velocity, accuracy and ease.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Yes, despite all of the 0 and whatever statistics, he's still the best QB the Lions ever had and more than a few other teams wish they had a Stafford. The Lions got lucky in 2009 to have the #1 pick and have an actual QB1 in the draft to select. Remember the Jets got Sanchez at #5 and the Bucs got Freeman at #17. Every QB in that draft was hot garbage, other than Stafford. Most drafts, there is no franchise QB at #1.BobbyLayne said:
Bobby likes to caveat it as the greatest Lions QB in the last 50 years. Just humor him please.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Stafford is, by far, statistically the greatest Lions QB of all-time. But Layne held all the career records Johnny Unitas would later break, went to four Pro Bowls, won three titles, was All Pro and invented the two minute drill. I never saw him play, but my brother, dad and uncles always thought he was the best QB ever.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Doing well, friend! Just turned 55 last weekend and have been truly blessed the last few years. Hope you are well, will definitely look you up when we visit the U.K. My son is happy the Magpies won promotion.TartanLion said:
Here's the article:
http://www.detroitlions.com/news/ohara/article-1/OHARA-No-9s-top-9-moments/216e89f6-be3f-41f1-bf74-9ae3cbdadca9
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think quarterback is one position where playing style can contribute to a great propensity for injuries. Big Ben is great because he holds the ball so long, but it also leads to injuries imo. I certainly wouldn't count on him playing 16/16 games. RGIII just couldn't take care of his body and make good decisions so that whole CLE experiment seemed doomed from the beginning. I was one of the people that stayed way, way, away from Romo those past few years. If I owned Cam in dynasty I'd be eager for him to have a few big games so I could sell, the types of hits he takes has to have a cumulative effect.
I'm also convinced some guys just grit out playing through injuries more than other guys. Not to sound like a homer but Rivers is about as mobile as an orange safety cone out there and has played behind a bottom-5 OL for nearly a decade now so there is no way he's played all of them healthy. I still remember that playoff game at NE.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He's become a much better player under Jim Bob Cooter. Presnap reads are exponentially better. Far less WTHWT throws. He's a good leader.
From here on out it's all about legacy. Road wins against good teams, beat the Packers, win playoff games. Numbers are meaningless, though he is very efficient these days.
They're committed to the run game and they have a good defense.
From here on out it's all about legacy. Road wins against good teams, beat the Packers, win playoff games. Numbers are meaningless, though he is very efficient these days.
They're committed to the run game and they have a good defense.
Skoo
Footballguy
All the "experts" seem to be really high on Stafford this week, I feel like I'm missing something here.
I mean I don't doubt that Stafford can put up numbers, but with their defense playing well he hasn't needed to yet this year, so I'm failing to see why this week will be different against a decent defense.
Help me understand sharks.
I mean I don't doubt that Stafford can put up numbers, but with their defense playing well he hasn't needed to yet this year, so I'm failing to see why this week will be different against a decent defense.
Help me understand sharks.
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