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TE Jimmy Graham, CHI (1 Viewer)
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HurryUpSundays
Footballguy
Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Report: Graham will play Week 7
Jimmy Graham, TE, NO
News: New Orleans tight end Jimmy Graham (ankle) is expected to play in the Week 7 game at Tampa Bay coming off the bye week, reports NBCSports.com. This comes from a source with knowledge of the situation. Graham was slowed Week 5 against the Chargers and apparently was injured in that game. More will be known when the Saints open practice Wednesday.
Analysis: Graham had Week 6 to rest as the Saints were on bye and it sounds as if he'll return to start the Week 7 game. Still, Fantasy owners will have to monitor him through the practice week. Graham caught just one pass for 4 yards last week and that was due to the injury. Including the postseason, Graham had gone 25 games in a row with at least two catches, so that was certainly a major disappointment for him. As long as he returns to full strength, however, Graham should bounce back and be considered a viable start across the board in Fantasy for Week 7.
Eta CBS sportsline
Jimmy Graham, TE, NO
News: New Orleans tight end Jimmy Graham (ankle) is expected to play in the Week 7 game at Tampa Bay coming off the bye week, reports NBCSports.com. This comes from a source with knowledge of the situation. Graham was slowed Week 5 against the Chargers and apparently was injured in that game. More will be known when the Saints open practice Wednesday.
Analysis: Graham had Week 6 to rest as the Saints were on bye and it sounds as if he'll return to start the Week 7 game. Still, Fantasy owners will have to monitor him through the practice week. Graham caught just one pass for 4 yards last week and that was due to the injury. Including the postseason, Graham had gone 25 games in a row with at least two catches, so that was certainly a major disappointment for him. As long as he returns to full strength, however, Graham should bounce back and be considered a viable start across the board in Fantasy for Week 7.
Eta CBS sportsline
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The Jerk
Footballguy
I hope he isn't rushed back too soon. Reinjury and missing 2-3 games could be worse than just missing one more to get it closer to 100% health. I know these guys are insanely tough and competitive but a little patience here could be good for the Saints offense and also for fantasy owners.
outlaws27
Footballguy
Dr. Gene seems to be pretty accurate on his injury assessments. And if he fears a high ankle sprain, then I'd shy away from Graham in the 2nd half of the season (even try to sell him for an owner who would pay top dollar based on name value).
That being said, Henderson and even Sproles could gain some short term value here!
That being said, Henderson and even Sproles could gain some short term value here!
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
shadyridr
Footballguy
graham for a wr2 is even?There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
need2know
Footballguy
I got em both too. I think both of them can have good games at the same time. although it hasn't happened yet. the first couple games colston could have had a couple tds though...With Colston and Graham on my roster, I'm not sure if I'mor
with this latest news.
just_want_2_win
Footballguy
Here's their post:A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk.com Jimmy Graham (ankle) will play in Week 7.The Saints have maintained radio silence on Graham's status since he went down in Week 5, but the fact that he played through the injury against the Chargers suggested he'd be ready to roll following a two-week layoff. We'll get our first tangible clue as to his Week 7 status when the Saints return to practice on Wednesday, but for now owners can pencil their TE1 into the lineup.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Not that I'm trying to trade Graham before the news breaks, but I'd be inclined to accept lowball offers anyway. High ankle sprains are no joke and if not right could affect his ability to get in and out of cuts and get that first explosive step that he usually has when healthy. If he's on the field and playing with Brees, obviously he has high value regardless. Because Brees can make a stud of just about anybody with above average talent. I'd move on from Graham for the right price, and the VJAX deal mentioned above doesn't sound so silly to me, although I have no use for Pettigrew.
packersfan
Footballguy
If he's playing this week I doubt he has a high-ankle sprain. I also agree with the previous poster who wondered why the Saints would've put him back on the field two weeks ago if he had a high-ankle sprain. That would've been extremely ignorant on their part. We'll find out more based on how much he practices this week but my initial reaction to the news that he's playing is that he doesn't have a high-ankle sprain which is great news.
packersfan
Footballguy
True. And I know Megatron played after being concussed. Still doesn't make it smart on the team's part.
I still believe that if Graham plays this week we can rule out him having a high-ankle sprain. I think it would be near impossible for him to play after only two weeks if that was the injury he suffered.
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
Exactly, I was trying to unload Gonzalez for a couple weeks, but nobody seemed interested. Graham could still be limited, and right now I think it's probable that he will be at least for a week or two. Even if he was 100% I likely would've done this trade. Atlanta's passing game and Tony G's targets aren't going to slow down. Hixon and Pettigrew were just thrown in to make the rosters even, which we have to do in this league. If anything they both provide high upside to keep on your bench.Look at the top entry in the list of athletes on the Wikipedia entry of high-ankle sprains. How do these guys know?
High-ankle sprain
High-ankle sprain
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Because anyone can edit Wikipedia. Any 12 year old kid can go onto Wikipedia and write, for example, that Michael Vick lost both his legs in a car accident yesterday.
Ace zero1
Footballguy
This
Fair enough. I thought there was some level of auditing. Then I clicked the edit link...So, should I remove it?? Heh..
packersfan
Footballguy
As a Graham and VJax owner I'd want more than VJax for Graham (and I'm not including Pettigrew since he's bye-week filler since the owner has Gonzalez as well). With Gonzalez and Graham, he was dealing from a position of great strength with two elite TEs. I would've wanted to maximize that strength better. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a WR1 or a low-end RB1 for Graham. Just my 2 cents.graham for a wr2 is even?There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
I get your point, but right now people aren't willing to trade a WR1 for Graham. He's coming back from an injury of severity that nobody seems to know and WR1's this year are hard to come by. Already having Gonzalez as well as AJ Green and DeSean Jackson, I think this trade worked out pretty well for me. Could I have waited another week while Gonzalez is on bye to have Graham? Sure, but with Jackson on bye as well this week and the questions surrounding Graham I wanted to get something done quick. I honestly just didn't want to deal with deciding between Graham and Gonzalez anymore. We also start 3 WRs and I feel a lot more comfortable with Green/D Jackson/V Jackson going forward than some combination of Green/D Jackson/Hixon/Kerley.
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packersfan
Footballguy
I don't think it's an awful trade by any means because VJax is damn good, having a fine season and I think it will continue barring injury. I just think you sold low on Graham. Now if the injury proves to be an issue going forward you won't have. But if he's back to being Jimmy Graham, I don't think you will have done well here. All depends on whether the injury is serious or not.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Trading stud TE's is almost impossible to do at fair market value. The commodity is too deep this year for studs to hold their "perceived" value. There are numerous threads that discuss this and show frustrated owners trying hard to unload Gonzales and Vernon for a decent WR2. Remember that these two are right now TE's 1 and 2 in PPR, well ahead of Gronk and Graham. What makes Graham owners think that just because they spent a first round pick they will get a similar return? The notion is absurd, and the only viable trades for guys like Graham or any other stud TE is for something less than draft day value. I know because I have tried and failed to unload my excess stud TE's too. Just not much interest in parting with RB2's and WR2's even for stud TE's when there are plenty of decent TE's on just about every roster. If you are sitting on Graham waiting for a WR1 or RB1 is basically saying you are marrying him for the rest of the season.
packersfan
Footballguy
I'm not focusing on Draft Day value. That's long gone. But as a Graham owner I look at the TE position and while it has some depth there aren't many guys who (in PPR which is all I play) have Graham's floor. This is what I was talking about yesterday. If you lose/trade Graham and grab someone like Colby Fleener you're probably going to have many rough weeks whereas with Graham when healthy you can lock 12-15 points in your lineup every single week. To me, that's a significant difference. If Graham is healthy he has almost no downside. There aren't many players at the TE position you can say that about. So if I were to shop him that would be the most significant component in the trade. Even getting someone like VJax, who I like a lot, isn't the same because VJax has had a couple of bad games despite being healthy. So again, his floor is considerably lower than Graham's. If I'm going to trade Graham, I want to get someone in return whose floor is comparable. I don't think that's unrealistic given Graham's elite talent and fantasy ability.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
My mistake, I forgot to sort my rankings on a PPG basis instead of total points, why did no one correct me?VJax is the 9th best WR in standard.VJax is ranked 12th in .5PPR.VJax is ranked 15th in 1PRR.So is Graham with a low-end WR1/high-end WR2? Absolutely.graham for a wr2 is even?There was nothing wrong with this trade even if Graham was 100%, which he is not. VJax is a high-end WR2. Grew and Hixon are a wash and irrelevant to this trade. With the way Gonzo is playing, there's no way he'd be sitting him for Graham anyway. Some of you guys are acting like he just traded Graham for Shonn Greene.Looks like other guy did work.'BlueDredSo said:Well, I went ahead and traded Graham and Hixon for VJax and Pettigrew. It was accepted almost immediately. I'd feel a little bad if Graham misses significant time, but that's the other guy's fault for not doing work. Oh yeah, I also have Tony G
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livetogo4sub4
Footballguy
Could we resume talking about whether Graham is going to play or not (looks like he will). What do owners expect from him this week?
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
JameyEisenberg Jamey EisenbergNo practice Wednesday for Jimmy Graham (ankle), but he apparently looked good running around. Stay tuned.
ponchsox
Footballguy
Jimmy Graham (ankle) was held out of Wednesday's practice.
Profootballtalk.com reported Tuesday that Graham is expected to play against the Bucs, but it's a bad sign he couldn't suit up today coming off the Saints' bye week. However, interim coach Aaron Kromer said Graham "(looked) good" doing work on the side. Graham will most likely give it a go against Tampa, but owners would be wise to hold onto their TE2 for at least a few more days.
Profootballtalk.com reported Tuesday that Graham is expected to play against the Bucs, but it's a bad sign he couldn't suit up today coming off the Saints' bye week. However, interim coach Aaron Kromer said Graham "(looked) good" doing work on the side. Graham will most likely give it a go against Tampa, but owners would be wise to hold onto their TE2 for at least a few more days.
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
Should I cancel my trade offer of Graham and Ridley for Tony G and T Rich ?
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
could be headed towards the dreaded GTD
Concept Coop
Footballguy
PPG is not how you measure value, it is value over replacement. Graham had 100 VBD in STANDARD formats last year - higher in PPR (too lazy to do the work and FBG doesn't give it to me). Only 1 WR scored provided more (Calvin). Graham was a 1st round start up pick, rightly so, and Jackson is one of many in the 3rd-4th round range. The owner getting Graham did work. Before getting injured, he was on pace for 20 or so fewer points. Lets say is VBD would have been 80 - only 4 WRs provided more.
need2know
Footballguy
the game is @ noon on sunday. plenty of time to make arrangements for our teams. I bet he practices at least in a limited way by Friday....
shadyridr
Footballguy
dont worry, itll be rejected
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
His VBD last year is mostly irrelevant, as is his draft spot (it's a sunk cost). The only thing you should consider in evaluting a trade is the players' values going forward. According to FBG Top 200 Forward values for PPR scoring, Vincent Jackson is 47th overall with a value of 20.7. Jimmy Graham is 51st overall with a value of 18.8. It doesn't get much more even than that. You may personally disagree with FBG's values, but you have to at least concede that they do this for a living and don't have any dog in this fight, and strictly by their numbers they'd say Graham's value is right around Jackson's value for the rest of the year.
Graham had 100 VBD in STANDARD formats last year - higher in PPR (too lazy to do the work and FBG doesn't give it to me). Only 1 WR scored provided more (Calvin).
Graham was a 1st round start up pick, rightly so, and Jackson is one of many in the 3rd-4th round range.
Clifford
Footballguy
He'll play. Calm down. If he doesn't he'll play the next week. Nothing about this sounds serious outside of a rumor posted on a message board.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Their TE rankings are out of whack and I would be interested in hearing from them. Gonzalez has 27 VBD thus far, #1 for a TE. Jackson has 13, #17 for a WR. Yet, Jackson is only 3 value points lower. Do they expect Gonzalez' production to cut in half, or Jacksons to double?His VBD last year is mostly irrelevant, as is his draft spot (it's a sunk cost). The only thing you should consider in evaluting a trade is the players' values going forward. According to FBG Top 200 Forward values for PPR scoring, Vincent Jackson is 47th overall with a value of 20.7. Jimmy Graham is 51st overall with a value of 18.8. It doesn't get much more even than that. You may personally disagree with FBG's values, but you have to at least concede that they do this for a living and don't have any dog in this fight, and strictly by their numbers they'd say Graham's value is right around Jackson's value for the rest of the year.
Graham had 100 VBD in STANDARD formats last year - higher in PPR (too lazy to do the work and FBG doesn't give it to me). Only 1 WR scored provided more (Calvin).
Graham was a 1st round start up pick, rightly so, and Jackson is one of many in the 3rd-4th round range.
If you think Graham is even 80% of what he was last year, you'd be wise to ignore FBG's top 200, in that regard.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
You are ever the optimist. I don't see how anyone can forecast a return date until he's practicing fully. Pure wishful thinking and clinging to rabbits feet. When he's back even as a limited participant in practice, let's talk.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
The more I look, the more I shake my head. They have the #2 TE, Graham, less valuable than the #21 WR, Eric Decker. How can anyone buy that?
ETA:
Vernon Davis is less valuable than Pierre Thomas, their 30th RB?!
This is REALLY bad.
ETA:
Vernon Davis is less valuable than Pierre Thomas, their 30th RB?!
This is REALLY bad.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Continuing on this hijack of Graham's value, I think packersfan brought up a very important missing component of the VBD vs ROS value system of comparing TE's to other skill positions. The fact is we know that Graham has a steady safe high floor and "equivalent" values like Vincent Jackson have very low floors and comparable ceiling. From that aspect Graham is worth more because he's more of a sure thing to have in your lineup.
ponchsox
Footballguy
So far this year, Graham has had 2 good games, 2 average games, and 1 stinker. VJax has had 2 great games, 1 good game, and 2 stinkers.I agree VJax has a low floor and high ceiling, but Graham hasn't exactly been a model of consistency this year plus he has a bum ankle to boot.
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Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
It doesn't have to be either of those things.
First, Graham's production is not the only thing that determines his value. You should know that, given that you're the one who brought up VBD. Second, I'm not sure how much hyperbole you're using here, but if Graham only produced 80% of what he did last year, his FBG value is probably spot on. The reason he was so valuable last year is because he (and Gronk) put up numbers that were waaaay better than everyone else at the position. If you take away 20% of his production, he's no longer nearly as valuable. Maybe FBG are building into their values the assumption that he really will only be 80% of what he was last year. Maybe they're building in the assumption that he may miss time due to injury. Maybe they're building in the assumption that the rest of the TE pack is better and deeper than it was last year. I don't know, and I'm not defending FBGs rankings, maybe it will turn out that they are way off. Maybe it won't. I simply provided them as an example of a pretty reputable, unbiased source that would place Graham's value right around the spot the other poster traded him for.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I think you have to throw out the one stinker. He hurt his ankle early and that game really doesn't count. Yes it hurt Graham owners that day, but it wasn't like he was his fault. I disagree about Graham not being a model of consistency. He's not been uber-great like many expected, but he's been pretty damn consistent.
wasted space 25
Footballguy
Concerned Graham owner here. Just wondering if it was a hight ankle sprain why would he be doing anything on the side? If it were a sprain id assume rest would be the only option here? Right?
kegger
Footballguy
I know many leagues run an TE, but for those that do not
an use TE/WR in the receiver spot how valuable is Graham?
I mean at what rank to do we put him compared to all receivers?
Obviously it's less when/if nicked up, how bout rest of year thoughts?
(what area/others would he be around)
an use TE/WR in the receiver spot how valuable is Graham?
I mean at what rank to do we put him compared to all receivers?
Obviously it's less when/if nicked up, how bout rest of year thoughts?
(what area/others would he be around)
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
No doubt. I think there is an issue with their formula, honestly. Or would a reputable, unbiased source claim Pierre Thomas, who they project well below baseline, more valuable than Vernon Davis, who they project well above it?ETA: I added up the VBD - they project Graham to provide 41 VBD, from here on out. They predict Jackson to provide 7 VBD, from here on out. Their rankings are off.I simply provided them as an example of a pretty reputable, unbiased source that would place Graham's value right around the spot the other poster traded him for.
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firstseason1988
Footballguy
That's what I thought too. If he is running, it is probably a regular sprained ankle. Just guessing since it seems it's all we got right now...
Clifford
Footballguy
k, see you Friday.
