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Maybe Vereen was a function of what was going on with injuries last year, with Amendola, Dobson, Hernandez, Gronk all injured or out for stretches, in addition to the Ridley benchings. When he was in there it seemed like it was just him and Edelman sometimes. Maybe the situation has changed? Or does it get better?

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Maybe Vereen was a function of what was going on with injuries last year, with Amendola, Dobson, Hernandez, Gronk all injured or out for stretches. When he was in there it seemed like it was just him and Edelman sometimes. Maybe the situation has changed? Or does it get better?

See the past 15 pages for discussion around this issue

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Maybe Vereen was a function of what was going on with injuries last year, with Amendola, Dobson, Hernandez, Gronk all injured or out for stretches. When he was in there it seemed like it was just him and Edelman sometimes. Maybe the situation has changed? Or does it get better?

See the past 15 pages for discussion around this issue

Oh, good, I'm on topic then, thanks.

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So with bye weeks kicking in are people taking a chance with Vereen this week? Seems kind of risky

Oh yeah, i think i'm playing him

Ditto

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Maybe Vereen was a function of what was going on with injuries last year, with Amendola, Dobson, Hernandez, Gronk all injured or out for stretches, in addition to the Ridley benchings. When he was in there it seemed like it was just him and Edelman sometimes. Maybe the situation has changed? Or does it get better?

I agree with all that (although I advise against saying it too loudly or too often in this thread...the natives are kind of touchy) but add to all that the fact that the Pats are playing some of the best defense they have since the salad days of the early oughts. That might be contributing to an overall more conservative approach (although the # of plays they run and the run/pass distribution is virtually identical to last year).

Vereen is definitely going to have some games where he blows up and wins you games single handedly but you are going to have to sit through 3-4 duds to realize those benefits. On the plus side Hernandez is still gone, Gronk & Amendola are made of glass, Dobson/Thompkins/LaFell all appear to be pretty average and I am not sold on Ridley's fumbles being entirely behind him so things could shift that would allow Vereen to be far more productive then he has been to date.

But if the stars don't align in that way he is little more than a flex play.

Edited by Chaka
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When the passing game gets going, Vereen's touches will increase. At the moment the offense is struggling with a terrible Oline allowing a ton of pressure. As long as the Oline struggles they will run more to take some pressure off Brady. This doesn't mean Vereen is out of the picture, I think he'll end up with almost as many carries as Ridley in the interim.

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Cut him this week in dynasty after sitting on him for a few years. I've had enough.

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Cut him this week in dynasty after sitting on him for a few years. I've had enough.

I am in a over a dozen dynasty leagues and he wouldn't last two seconds on the waiver wire if he were cut in any of them. I am curious about the league roster limits and what other RBs you have that you felt that he was expendable.

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Cut him this week in dynasty after sitting on him for a few years. I've had enough.

I am in a over a dozen dynasty leagues and he wouldn't last two seconds on the waiver wire if he were cut in any of them. I am curious about the league roster limits and what other RBs you have that you felt that he was expendable.

Only 10 teams. But it doesn't matter. The point is that he's not a difference maker in all but very deep leagues. He's not going to win you anything. He'll need you a few points some weeks, but you're fighting for mediocre there. I've learned in my years of doing this that upside wins. Let me cut that mediocre dead weight and take a shot at what could be the next Alfred Morris or Keenan Allen. That's how you win.

It's a difference between competing and winning.

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Put differently:

How many RBs who are turning 26, and who have never been reliable fantasy starters, turned it around at that age to become that?

Very, very few. Especially at that position, but speaking generally too, if you don't put it together in your first 4 years in the league, you're unlikely to ever put it together.

26 is nearing the DECLINE age for RBs, yet folks are still waiting for this guy to arrive?

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Cut him this week in dynasty after sitting on him for a few years. I've had enough.

Cool, Otis has de-Otis'ed Vereen! Now safe to start in all formats.

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We're all a Ridley fumble away from rejoicing and welcoming Vereen back to RB2 status. Let's hope it happens soon.

no. Bolden will get the carries then

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Put differently:

How many RBs who are turning 26, and who have never been reliable fantasy starters, turned it around at that age to become that?

Vereen's 25; he won't be 26 until next March. It seems like pretty much every year at least one guy "turns it around" at Vereen's age to become a reliable FF starter.

Larry Centers-'95, 1200 YFS, 4 TD; (27)

Adrian Murrell-'96, 1300 YFS, 7 TD, (26)

Dorsey Levens-'97, 1800 YFS, 12 TD

Priest Holmes-'98, 1200 YFS, 7 TD (25)

James Stewart-'99, 1000 YFS, 13 TD (28)

Stephen Davis-'99, 1500 YFS, 17 TD (26)

Charlie Garner-'99, 1700 YFS, 6 TD (27)

Tyrone Wheatley-'99, 1100 YFS, 11 TD (27)

Mike Anderson-'00, 1600 YFS, 17 TD (27)

Tiki Barber-'00, 1700 YFS, 9 TD (25)

Stacey Mack-'00, 1000 YFS, 10 TD (26)

Reuben Droughns-'04, 1400 YFS, 8 TD (26)

Thomas Jones-'04, 1300 YFS, 7 TD (26)

Rudi Johnson-'04, 1500 YFS, 11 TD, (25)

Brian Westbrook-'04, 1500 YFS, 9 TD (25)

Larry Johnson-'05, 2100 YFS, 21 TD (26)

Lamont Jordan-'05, 1500 YFS, 11 TD (27)

Ladell Betts-'06, 1600 YFS, 5 TD (27)

Chester Taylor-'06, 1400 TFS, 6 TD, (27)

Earnest Graham-'07, 1200 YFS, 10 TD (27)

Ryan Grant-'07, 1100 YFS, 8 TD (25)

Brandon Jacobs-'07, 1100 YFS, 6 TD (27)

DeAngelo Williams-'08, 1600 YFS, 20 TD (25)

Michael Turner-'08, 1700 YFS, 17 TD (26)

Cedric Benson-'09; 1300 YFS, 6 TD (27)

BJGE-'10, 1000 YFS, 13 TD (25)

Michael Bush-'11, 1400 YFS, 8 TD (27)

Shonn Greene-'11, 1200 YFS, 6 TD (26)

CJ Spiller-'12, 1700 YFS, 8 TD (25)

Knowshon Moreno-'13, 1500 YFS, 13 TD (26)

Joique Bell-'13, 1200 YFS, 8 TD (27)

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We're all a Ridley fumble away from rejoicing and welcoming Vereen back to RB2 status. Let's hope it happens soon.

no. Bolden will get the carries then

Hmmm...wish I could say you're wrong, but I can't.

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Put differently:

How many RBs who are turning 26, and who have never been reliable fantasy starters, turned it around at that age to become that?

Vereen's 25; he won't be 26 until next March. It seems like pretty much every year at least one guy "turns it around" at Vereen's age to become a reliable FF starter.

Larry Centers-'95, 1200 YFS, 4 TD; (27)

Adrian Murrell-'96, 1300 YFS, 7 TD, (26)

Dorsey Levens-'97, 1800 YFS, 12 TD

Priest Holmes-'98, 1200 YFS, 7 TD (25)

James Stewart-'99, 1000 YFS, 13 TD (28)

Stephen Davis-'99, 1500 YFS, 17 TD (26)

Charlie Garner-'99, 1700 YFS, 6 TD (27)

Tyrone Wheatley-'99, 1100 YFS, 11 TD (27)

Mike Anderson-'00, 1600 YFS, 17 TD (27)

Tiki Barber-'00, 1700 YFS, 9 TD (25)

Stacey Mack-'00, 1000 YFS, 10 TD (26)

Reuben Droughns-'04, 1400 YFS, 8 TD (26)

Thomas Jones-'04, 1300 YFS, 7 TD (26)

Rudi Johnson-'04, 1500 YFS, 11 TD, (25)

Brian Westbrook-'04, 1500 YFS, 9 TD (25)

Larry Johnson-'05, 2100 YFS, 21 TD (26)

Lamont Jordan-'05, 1500 YFS, 11 TD (27)

Ladell Betts-'06, 1600 YFS, 5 TD (27)

Chester Taylor-'06, 1400 TFS, 6 TD, (27)

Earnest Graham-'07, 1200 YFS, 10 TD (27)

Ryan Grant-'07, 1100 YFS, 8 TD (25)

Brandon Jacobs-'07, 1100 YFS, 6 TD (27)

DeAngelo Williams-'08, 1600 YFS, 20 TD (25)

Michael Turner-'08, 1700 YFS, 17 TD (26)

Cedric Benson-'09; 1300 YFS, 6 TD (27)

BJGE-'10, 1000 YFS, 13 TD (25)

Michael Bush-'11, 1400 YFS, 8 TD (27)

Shonn Greene-'11, 1200 YFS, 6 TD (26)

CJ Spiller-'12, 1700 YFS, 8 TD (25)

Knowshon Moreno-'13, 1500 YFS, 13 TD (26)

Joique Bell-'13, 1200 YFS, 8 TD (27)

Tiki is the guy I think of when I think about Vereen.

I still think Tiki's ascension was just as much about his coaches changing their perception as it was Tiki changing his approach and focus.

I think Vereen is in a similar pigeon hole. For all the credit we give BB and company for being brilliant strategists, I sometimes get the idea that they err on the side of specialization rather than utilization. By that I mean that they seem to favor subbing in players rather than playing to players' strengths. Rather than saying "Vereen is more explosive, so let's find ways to exploit that this week", I get the feeling that they say "This is a situation where <insert type of player> is a mismatch, so who on the roster fits?" It's a subtle difference, yet incredibly important.

I'm not a Pats homer, so I could be off base. It's the exact opposite of the square peg/round hole coaches who seem to ignore their roster composition. But I wonder if still keeps the Pats from milking everything they can out of their roster.

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Got dropped in one of my leagues with real tight roster limits last night. I'm debating what percentage of my remaining FAAB to spend on him. It's gonna be a lot. No way I'd bail on him right now.

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When the passing game gets going, Vereen's touches will increase. At the moment the offense is struggling with a terrible Oline allowing a ton of pressure. As long as the Oline struggles they will run more to take some pressure off Brady. This doesn't mean Vereen is out of the picture, I think he'll end up with almost as many carries as Ridley in the interim.

When or if?

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When the passing game gets going, Vereen's touches will increase. At the moment the offense is struggling with a terrible Oline allowing a ton of pressure. As long as the Oline struggles they will run more to take some pressure off Brady. This doesn't mean Vereen is out of the picture, I think he'll end up with almost as many carries as Ridley in the interim.

When or if?

When. The O-line through three games has allowed 7 sacks same as last year through three games. The O-line through three games has allowed 54 pressures, last year we had allowed 55 through three games. The problem is still the O-line, our receivers have gotten better, Vereen and Gronk are healthy, just have to get the pressure off Brady so he can actually make plays.

When they are comfortable using Wright I think it will help a ton, the kid looks good when hes on the field, he just isn't on the field. Ridley isn't as big of a roadblock as people give him credit for.

Edited by Run It Up

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When the passing game gets going, Vereen's touches will increase. At the moment the offense is struggling with a terrible Oline allowing a ton of pressure. As long as the Oline struggles they will run more to take some pressure off Brady. This doesn't mean Vereen is out of the picture, I think he'll end up with almost as many carries as Ridley in the interim.

When or if?

When. The O-line through three games has allowed 7 sacks same as last year through three games. The O-line through three games has allowed 54 pressures, last year we had allowed 55 through three games. The problem is still the O-line, our receivers have gotten better, Vereen and Gronk are healthy, just have to get the pressure off Brady so he can actually make plays.

When they are comfortable using Wright I think it will help a ton, the kid looks good when hes on the field, he just isn't on the field. Ridley isn't as big of a roadblock as people give him credit for.

Except Vereen had a huge week 1 last year when the O-line and offense struggled, but hasn't done much of anything under similar circumstances this year.

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The Pats offense of 2011-2012 was most effective when employing the no-huddle - it was the Chip Kelly offense before he got to Philly. Versatility was the key to that offense, with Hernandez as the main focal point. They would switch from 12 personnel to 21 to 11 to 02 without changing the players, and this meant the defense couldn't adapt.

I'm still stuck thinking that is what Vereen offers. Problem is they are winning with defense and letting the air out of the ball. I am hopeful they can't do that from weeks 8-13, as alluded to in my post above.

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When the passing game gets going, Vereen's touches will increase. At the moment the offense is struggling with a terrible Oline allowing a ton of pressure. As long as the Oline struggles they will run more to take some pressure off Brady. This doesn't mean Vereen is out of the picture, I think he'll end up with almost as many carries as Ridley in the interim.

When or if?

When. The O-line through three games has allowed 7 sacks same as last year through three games. The O-line through three games has allowed 54 pressures, last year we had allowed 55 through three games. The problem is still the O-line, our receivers have gotten better, Vereen and Gronk are healthy, just have to get the pressure off Brady so he can actually make plays.

When they are comfortable using Wright I think it will help a ton, the kid looks good when hes on the field, he just isn't on the field. Ridley isn't as big of a roadblock as people give him credit for.

Well that's possible but in the interim Ridley is out carrying Vereen 52-20 do you see that ratio changing before the line gets fixed (if it gets fixed)?

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When the passing game gets going, Vereen's touches will increase. At the moment the offense is struggling with a terrible Oline allowing a ton of pressure. As long as the Oline struggles they will run more to take some pressure off Brady. This doesn't mean Vereen is out of the picture, I think he'll end up with almost as many carries as Ridley in the interim.

When or if?

When. The O-line through three games has allowed 7 sacks same as last year through three games. The O-line through three games has allowed 54 pressures, last year we had allowed 55 through three games. The problem is still the O-line, our receivers have gotten better, Vereen and Gronk are healthy, just have to get the pressure off Brady so he can actually make plays.

When they are comfortable using Wright I think it will help a ton, the kid looks good when hes on the field, he just isn't on the field. Ridley isn't as big of a roadblock as people give him credit for.

Well that's possible but in the interim Ridley is out carrying Vereen 52-20 do you see that ratio changing before the line gets fixed (if it gets fixed)?

I think Ridley will out carry him, but I think the gap will close and I think Vereen will out touch him. ATM defenses have to give the Patriots offense very little credit, when Gronk is in on every down, they have to back off a little. If Wright steps up, they will have to back off even more. If the Oline improves at all, then it won't matter if they respect the offense at all, Brady will tear em up and Vereen will very much be a part of that. I expect Develin to get involved too.

What Elbow said is right, I think theres been maybe one or two drives where the Pats fell into the no-huddle and I think one of them was the season-opening drive.

Edited by Run It Up

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I started this original thread thinking that he was going to be a decent flex plug-in midseason in a pretty deep league a few years ago... Since then I've been surprised at how out of control the hype has gotten (he was taken in the 2nd round of the same 16 teamer this year).

The Patriots backfield has always been a do not draft situation for me similar to the Saints backfield, I've got better things to do on Sundays than to watch my players stand on the sidelines. Likewise, I never saw Vereen as being much more than Darren Sproles East opportunity-wise. Considering that it's still the same cast of characters in the backfield for years now, why were people thinking that he was somehow going to get a bigger piece of the pie this year?

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I started this original thread thinking that he was going to be a decent flex plug-in midseason in a pretty deep league a few years ago... Since then I've been surprised at how out of control the hype has gotten (he was taken in the 2nd round of the same 16 teamer this year).

The Patriots backfield has always been a do not draft situation for me similar to the Saints backfield, I've got better things to do on Sundays than to watch my players stand on the sidelines. Likewise, I never saw Vereen as being much more than Darren Sproles East opportunity-wise. Considering that it's still the same cast of characters in the backfield for years now, why were people thinking that he was somehow going to get a bigger piece of the pie this year?

Cause he filled a role in the offense no one else filled and his competition is a one dimensional back who does everything in his power to fumble at the worst time possible.

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I started this original thread thinking that he was going to be a decent flex plug-in midseason in a pretty deep league a few years ago... Since then I've been surprised at how out of control the hype has gotten (he was taken in the 2nd round of the same 16 teamer this year).

The Patriots backfield has always been a do not draft situation for me similar to the Saints backfield, I've got better things to do on Sundays than to watch my players stand on the sidelines. Likewise, I never saw Vereen as being much more than Darren Sproles East opportunity-wise. Considering that it's still the same cast of characters in the backfield for years now, why were people thinking that he was somehow going to get a bigger piece of the pie this year?

Cause he filled a role in the offense no one else filled and his competition is a one dimensional back who does everything in his power to fumble at the worst time possible.

What got me to bite last year and to a lesser extent this year was no danny Woodhead. I thought he was going to get a nice bump on woodheads numbers making him a nice play every week.

After much thinking, going to play pt cruiser over vereen this week

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I started this original thread thinking that he was going to be a decent flex plug-in midseason in a pretty deep league a few years ago... Since then I've been surprised at how out of control the hype has gotten (he was taken in the 2nd round of the same 16 teamer this year).

The Patriots backfield has always been a do not draft situation for me similar to the Saints backfield, I've got better things to do on Sundays than to watch my players stand on the sidelines. Likewise, I never saw Vereen as being much more than Darren Sproles East opportunity-wise. Considering that it's still the same cast of characters in the backfield for years now, why were people thinking that he was somehow going to get a bigger piece of the pie this year?

Cause he filled a role in the offense no one else filled and his competition is a one dimensional back who does everything in his power to fumble at the worst time possible.

What got me to bite last year and to a lesser extent this year was no danny Woodhead. I thought he was going to get a nice bump on woodheads numbers making him a nice play every week.

After much thinking, going to play pt cruiser over vereen this week

It's possible that Woodhead was just a better RB then Vereen.

:scared:

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I started this original thread thinking that he was going to be a decent flex plug-in midseason in a pretty deep league a few years ago... Since then I've been surprised at how out of control the hype has gotten (he was taken in the 2nd round of the same 16 teamer this year).

The Patriots backfield has always been a do not draft situation for me similar to the Saints backfield, I've got better things to do on Sundays than to watch my players stand on the sidelines. Likewise, I never saw Vereen as being much more than Darren Sproles East opportunity-wise. Considering that it's still the same cast of characters in the backfield for years now, why were people thinking that he was somehow going to get a bigger piece of the pie this year?

Cause he filled a role in the offense no one else filled and his competition is a one dimensional back who does everything in his power to fumble at the worst time possible.

What got me to bite last year and to a lesser extent this year was no danny Woodhead. I thought he was going to get a nice bump on woodheads numbers making him a nice play every week.

After much thinking, going to play pt cruiser over vereen this week

It's possible that Woodhead was just a better RB then Vereen.

:scared:

I think Woodhead is better than Sprole/PT/Vereen.

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Cut him this week in dynasty after sitting on him for a few years. I've had enough.

I am in a over a dozen dynasty leagues and he wouldn't last two seconds on the waiver wire if he were cut in any of them. I am curious about the league roster limits and what other RBs you have that you felt that he was expendable.

Only 10 teams. But it doesn't matter. The point is that he's not a difference maker in all but very deep leagues. He's not going to win you anything. He'll need you a few points some weeks, but you're fighting for mediocre there. I've learned in my years of doing this that upside wins. Let me cut that mediocre dead weight and take a shot at what could be the next Alfred Morris or Keenan Allen. That's how you win.

It's a difference between competing and winning.

:pickle:

Curse lifted!!!

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What is his contract status? When will he be freed from this Belichekian hell?

Contract years for both Ridley and Vereen, expecting Vereen to stick around.

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My rb1 this week! I love bye weeks and injuries!

Edited by shadyridr

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My rb1 this week! I love bye weeks and injuries!

unless they're crazy and try to repeat last week's game plan me thinks you'll be happy. Big week coming.

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What is his contract status? When will he be freed from this Belichekian hell?

Contract years for both Ridley and Vereen, expecting Vereen to stick around.

Just curious- why do you expect that? This is almost certainly Vereen's only chance at a nice payday, and it doesn't seem likely at all that the Pats offer what he'll get on the open market.

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The Pats offense of 2011-2012 was most effective when employing the no-huddle - it was the Chip Kelly offense before he got to Philly. Versatility was the key to that offense, with Hernandez as the main focal point. They would switch from 12 personnel to 21 to 11 to 02 without changing the players, and this meant the defense couldn't adapt.

I'm still stuck thinking that is what Vereen offers. Problem is they are winning with defense and letting the air out of the ball. I am hopeful they can't do that from weeks 8-13, as alluded to in my post above.

I'm confused about all of this winning with defense talk. Let's look:

W1: Lost to Miami (who is 1-2 now) giving up 33 points. Miami has scored 25 total points in its last two games against those hellacious D's of Buffalo and KC.

W2: Beat Minny 30-7. OK, good defensive effort, but oh, Matt Cassel and Matt Asiata, well that should be enough. With ADP, they beat the Rams 34-6, who have a decent D and Minny again without ADP scored only 9 against NO who has given up 30+ ppg against the Falcons and Browns. Minny without ADP is likely the second worst O to the next guys (Oakland). They are only 7 points out of 31st in scoring.

W3: Beat Oakland 16-9. Well Oakland also happens to be 32nd in scoring this year.

IMHO, getting trashed by Miami and barely skimping by a horrible Oakland offense isn't a good sign. They only won big against Cassel/Asiata, not saying much.

So, let's pump the brakes on winning with defense. As posted above, their schedule has better Os coming to town. I would say that with Charles back practicing and Marvin Jones/AJ Green expected to play that they play better offenses in every week from weeks 4-14 than they have played so far. Week 15 is Miami again.

As a Vereen owner, I would have hoped for better so far, but being nicked up week 2 didn't help. I don't think winning with D is the reason why he isn't getting touches. It doesn't appear they have another Minny O/Oakland on their remaining schedule.

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What is his contract status? When will he be freed from this Belichekian hell?

Contract years for both Ridley and Vereen, expecting Vereen to stick around.

Just curious- why do you expect that? This is almost certainly Vereen's only chance at a nice payday, and it doesn't seem likely at all that the Pats offer what he'll get on the open market.

They extended Woodhead in the past. As I said above, I'm confident Vereen fills a role in the offense no one else fills. I'm pretty confident they could get him for a relatively team friendly contract. In addition to being harder to find a replacement for (than Ridley who's replacement is likely already on the roster), Vereen has a pretty good grasp of the offense, which is substantially more important than have the physical ability to play his position.

I don't think there will be a huge demand for a player who has spent 50% of his time at the professional level on the IR.

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I started this original thread thinking that he was going to be a decent flex plug-in midseason in a pretty deep league a few years ago... Since then I've been surprised at how out of control the hype has gotten (he was taken in the 2nd round of the same 16 teamer this year).

The Patriots backfield has always been a do not draft situation for me similar to the Saints backfield, I've got better things to do on Sundays than to watch my players stand on the sidelines. Likewise, I never saw Vereen as being much more than Darren Sproles East opportunity-wise. Considering that it's still the same cast of characters in the backfield for years now, why were people thinking that he was somehow going to get a bigger piece of the pie this year?

considering his ffpc adp was 28, ya, id say a lot of ppl expected big things from this guy. i mean, if you read this thread a lot of ppl are predicting a lot of fantasy points for him. nice of you to stop now and let everyone know that he would suck.

anyway, i was lucky enough to miss him in those leagues and only got him kinda late in a standard league. i thought he would be a solid 2nd flex. hes not. really dont understand why he doesnt get many catches.

Edited by cvnpoka

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I'm smelling a 10 catch game from Vereen

And you just KNOW thisnis the week it will happen too on everyone's bench. Well, not on my bench. I have no choice but to keep sticking him in there every week until Mathews, moreno, and ingram come back.

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What is his contract status? When will he be freed from this Belichekian hell?

Contract years for both Ridley and Vereen, expecting Vereen to stick around.

Just curious- why do you expect that? This is almost certainly Vereen's only chance at a nice payday, and it doesn't seem likely at all that the Pats offer what he'll get on the open market.

They extended Woodhead in the past. As I said above, I'm confident Vereen fills a role in the offense no one else fills. I'm pretty confident they could get him for a relatively team friendly contract. In addition to being harder to find a replacement for (than Ridley who's replacement is likely already on the roster), Vereen has a pretty good grasp of the offense, which is substantially more important than have the physical ability to play his position.

I don't think there will be a huge demand for a player who has spent 50% of his time at the professional level on the IR.

They gave Woodhead 2 years at around $800k per, then let him walk when he got a couple million per from SD. I agree Vereen is fairly valuable to them, but it's not their MO to pay a lot for RBs.

There doesn't have to be huge demand, just one other team who values him more (financially) than the Pats. That seems highly likely to me, unless of course he's injured a lot again, in which case no one would really care where he's playing for fantasy.

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