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The Nick Foles era

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:25, said:I don't want a tug o'war with the Foles supporters who I don't believe really think Foles is a future perennial top 15-20 QB for the Eagles. In fact I think as usual it is more Vick hate as it always is. It's just easier when the stats go your way. Same folks were screaming murder when Vick was torching the NFL in 2010. Vick is going to force the Eagles to either start him or release him. I think if they do cut him which they don't want to do because it leaves them extremely vulnerable and only a Foles ankle twist away form a completely not ready for prime time Matt Barkley. If they release Vick I expect him to be signed rather quickly, he is the fastest player at his position in the NFL. I could even see a team that doesn't have any questions about their starting QB picking Vick up just as insurance or for gadget plays.I would say Vick is better than the QBs on at least 5 NFL teams, maybe closer to 10. And that's why it is hard to take folks seriously or objective when they toss names out like Gabbert in the same sentence as Vick. I don't have a dog in this fight, but to compare Vick to Gabbert is silly. Edit to add: Put Vick on the Jags and you might have a borderline playoff team. Want to compare Vick and Gabbert then?

Vick is here because Kelly seems to be a man that explores all options. They brought him back on a contract that is easy to get out of and costs them no more than what it would had they cut him from his last one if they decide to cut him before week 1. It is truly for competition. Kelly wants to see if he can push Foles. If he doesn't show anything in camp, then he'll go with Vick for the year. If he shows something, then Vick is gone. Simple as that.The Eagles are not winning the super bowl this year. It's a transitional year so you might as well see what you have at QB going forward. If Foles can play great. IF not, well at least you know and don't need to waste anymore time on him. Vick doesn't add anything to this team except he can maybe make a 6 or 7 win team get 8 wins. Our defense is still being overhauled and the offense is brand new. Nothing Vick could do except for staying healthy and playing at his 2010 form for 16 games could make this team make the playoffs let alone win it all.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
Yea, I don't see Vick retiring. Someone will take a shot on him. But I don't think he'll be a top 10 QB again though unless the situation around him is great. He's not a guy that can carry a team at 32 years old.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this. This is now Chip Kelly's team. He surprised most Eagles fans by bringing Vick back on a 1-year "show me" deal and he's called it an open competition from the start. He's treated it as a competition. Most people who have watched every Eagles' practice (that's been open to the media) have said its either pretty even or Foles has been more impressive.There are some who think Vick is getting a little upset because he's never had to compete for the starter's job. He knows he's getting older and doesn't feel comfortable that he may actually lose out to Foles. This has nothing to do with Reid or Vick haters or Foles lovers. Kelly hasn't named a starter and most people who have watched the practices say Foles is either even with Vick or has a slight edge.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.

It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL.

I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach.

But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses.

It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.
It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL. I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach. But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses. It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.
What you think is meaningless. Chip Kelly has no ties to either Vick or Foles. They are being given equal opportunity to win the job. We'll know who the starter is when Kelly names one. Until then, its open competition.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.

It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL.

I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach.

But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses.

It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.

It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.

Edited by Khy

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.
It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL. I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach. But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses. It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.
It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.
Exactly. Been saying that since November. I have no stake in foles. If hes good then good. If he's not id like to find out this year when it doesn't matter.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.

It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL.

I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach.

But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses.

It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.

It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.

TY for expanding, I'm not even gonna rebuttal, nothing wrong with what you are saying. I can understand the want to move forward or to the next phase, lose 12 or 13 games if you must to get the right QB in next year's draft, I get it. Maybe Vick understands that as well and wants them to make a decision now.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.
It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL. I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach. But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses. It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.
It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.
Exactly. Been saying that since November. I have no stake in foles. If hes good then good. If he's not id like to find out this year when it doesn't matter.
What makes you think this year doesn't matter?

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.
It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL. I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach. But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses. It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.
It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.
Exactly. Been saying that since November. I have no stake in foles. If hes good then good. If he's not id like to find out this year when it doesn't matter.
What makes you think this year doesn't matter?
Not necessarily that it doesn't matter. Its a transition year. We're not winning the super bowl this year. So using this year to develop players and finding out what you have is preferable to running an aging veteran that is often injured out there just to win a few more games.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.
It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL. I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach. But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses. It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.
It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.
Exactly. Been saying that since November. I have no stake in foles. If hes good then good. If he's not id like to find out this year when it doesn't matter.
What makes you think this year doesn't matter?
Not necessarily that it doesn't matter. Its a transition year. We're not winning the super bowl this year. So using this year to develop players and finding out what you have is preferable to running an aging veteran that is often injured out there just to win a few more games.
I just watched Flacco vs Kaepernick in the superbowl. Nick Foles is the best QB on the team, it's not even close. He is more accurate, throws less turnovers, and puts the team in scoring position. If you let the media tell it Vick is keeping te seat warm for Matt Barkley and Foles doesn't exist. Vick does not give us the best chance at winning. That's just as true as Matt Flynn giving the Seahawks a better chance at winning last season. Where have you guys been the past few years? He was good for one part of a season, and then a decade ago he was interesting. At best he is a mediocre QB and a unreal athlete. Thats not hard to say. I'd rather hear about how Foles is progressing than Vick telling the coach what to do, how fast he is and setting his sights on 1000 rushing yards. Who cares.. I think Foles starts openning day and Vick is in Jacksonville or something.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.

Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.

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I think it's almost impossible to judge Foles by last year (and I like him -- think he's a good prospect).

He played an insanely easy schedule, he wasn't being prepped to be the starter at any point last year until he took over, his offensive line, a pretty decent unit overall, was in shambles, and he was missing a lot of his offensive weapons too.

What all that nets out to I have no idea. I'd rather just punt and see how things shake out going forward.

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I just watched Flacco vs Kaepernick in the superbowl. Nick Foles is the best QB on the team, it's not even close. He is more accurate, throws less turnovers, and puts the team in scoring position. If you let the media tell it Vick is keeping te seat warm for Matt Barkley and Foles doesn't exist. Vick does not give us the best chance at winning. That's just as true as Matt Flynn giving the Seahawks a better chance at winning last season. Where have you guys been the past few years? He was good for one part of a season, and then a decade ago he was interesting. At best he is a mediocre QB and a unreal athlete. Thats not hard to say.I'd rather hear about how Foles is progressing than Vick telling the coach what to do, how fast he is and setting his sights on 1000 rushing yards. Who cares.. I think Foles starts openning day and Vick is in Jacksonville or something.

I know what you're saying regarding Flacco vs Kaepernick in the superbowl, but I don't think we know which QB is the best the of bunch. The only thing we can take from the mini-camps is that Kelly was honest when he said it was an open competition. He didn't come in and just anoint Vick the starter by default. We're going to need to see what happens in TC. Heck, when Dennis Dixon was asked how Chip handled the QBs at Oregon, he said we wouldn't know who the starter was until September 9th! Hopefully that's an exaggeration or I think Vick's head will explode.

Also, any opinions about Foles from last season need to be erased imo. Different system/coach/personnel.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.

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I just watched Flacco vs Kaepernick in the superbowl. Nick Foles is the best QB on the team, it's not even close. He is more accurate, throws less turnovers, and puts the team in scoring position. If you let the media tell it Vick is keeping te seat warm for Matt Barkley and Foles doesn't exist. Vick does not give us the best chance at winning. That's just as true as Matt Flynn giving the Seahawks a better chance at winning last season. Where have you guys been the past few years? He was good for one part of a season, and then a decade ago he was interesting. At best he is a mediocre QB and a unreal athlete. Thats not hard to say.I'd rather hear about how Foles is progressing than Vick telling the coach what to do, how fast he is and setting his sights on 1000 rushing yards. Who cares.. I think Foles starts openning day and Vick is in Jacksonville or something.

I know what you're saying regarding Flacco vs Kaepernick in the superbowl, but I don't think we know which QB is the best the of bunch. The only thing we can take from the mini-camps is that Kelly was honest when he said it was an open competition. He didn't come in and just anoint Vick the starter by default. We're going to need to see what happens in TC. Heck, when Dennis Dixon was asked how Chip handled the QBs at Oregon, he said we wouldn't know who the starter was until September 9th! Hopefully that's an exaggeration or I think Vick's head will explode.

Also, any opinions about Foles from last season need to be erased imo. Different system/coach/personnel.

:goodposting:

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.

Weeden was terrible.

And I have a feeling I am going to have an aneurysm before week 1 with people referencing Luck's QB rating last year. Painfully obvious anyone citing that did not watch him play much.

Again, it's just pieces of information. I have made it clear on here since day 1 I am not a Foles fan. I also noted encouraging signs last year, to be fair. Still, in the end, his performance was poor. He had a couple of decent, but not great, games. He showed better poise in the pocket in late December than he did in November. This is encouraging. That it didn't translate to production, not so much.

Now there's a new guy in town, with zero ties to Foles, who drafted a QB. This is usually a sign that he is not sold on the in-house options. The fact that he played against Foles for 3 years only adds fuel to the fire. He likes Foles, if he didn't he'd have been more aggressive in looking for a replacement. Does he like him as a starer though? Based on his actions so far, my needle points towards no. Foles will probably get an opportunity, but the leash will be short. His good games last year must become the norm, and he has to score more TD's. If he doesn't his days as a starter will be short lived.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.

Weeden was terrible.

And I have a feeling I am going to have an aneurysm before week 1 with people referencing Luck's QB rating last year. Painfully obvious anyone citing that did not watch him play much.

Again, it's just pieces of information. I have made it clear on here since day 1 I am not a Foles fan. I also noted encouraging signs last year, to be fair. Still, in the end, his performance was poor. He had a couple of decent, but not great, games. He showed better poise in the pocket in late December than he did in November. This is encouraging. That it didn't translate to production, not so much.

Now there's a new guy in town, with zero ties to Foles, who drafted a QB. This is usually a sign that he is not sold on the in-house options. The fact that he played against Foles for 3 years only adds fuel to the fire. He likes Foles, if he didn't he'd have been more aggressive in looking for a replacement. Does he like him as a starer though? Based on his actions so far, my needle points towards no. Foles will probably get an opportunity, but the leash will be short. His good games last year must become the norm, and he has to score more TD's. If he doesn't his days as a starter will be short lived.

The bolded what I find encouraging. As to not translating to production....did you see the '12 Eagles? Train wreck.

In mini camps, Vick and Foles shared time with the 1's. Barkley was with the 2s and 3s. Does it mean anything? Probably not. Its an open competition and the winner(s) have not been named.

As a side note, I have no idea why some staffers list Vick as a top-end QB2/borderline QB1. Someone's not paying attention or has tremendous faith in Vick winning the starting job.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.
Weeden was terrible. And I have a feeling I am going to have an aneurysm before week 1 with people referencing Luck's QB rating last year. Painfully obvious anyone citing that did not watch him play much. Again, it's just pieces of information. I have made it clear on here since day 1 I am not a Foles fan. I also noted encouraging signs last year, to be fair. Still, in the end, his performance was poor. He had a couple of decent, but not great, games. He showed better poise in the pocket in late December than he did in November. This is encouraging. That it didn't translate to production, not so much. Now there's a new guy in town, with zero ties to Foles, who drafted a QB. This is usually a sign that he is not sold on the in-house options. The fact that he played against Foles for 3 years only adds fuel to the fire. He likes Foles, if he didn't he'd have been more aggressive in looking for a replacement. Does he like him as a starer though? Based on his actions so far, my needle points towards no. Foles will probably get an opportunity, but the leash will be short. His good games last year must become the norm, and he has to score more TD's. If he doesn't his days as a starter will be short lived.
Well don't mentioned QB rating if you're not going hold every under the same light. I just like mentioning Luck to catch people attention about how well Foles played statistically in his last 4 games as a rookie while Luck was struggling to comple 50% of his throws. I can't point to a few dropped TD's from Foles WR/TE, especially vs CIN and the game ending drive vs WAS. We're talking about 1 or 2 TD from completely shuting down that TD argument and it's not really that bad if you ask me.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.
Weeden was terrible. And I have a feeling I am going to have an aneurysm before week 1 with people referencing Luck's QB rating last year. Painfully obvious anyone citing that did not watch him play much. Again, it's just pieces of information. I have made it clear on here since day 1 I am not a Foles fan. I also noted encouraging signs last year, to be fair. Still, in the end, his performance was poor. He had a couple of decent, but not great, games. He showed better poise in the pocket in late December than he did in November. This is encouraging. That it didn't translate to production, not so much. Now there's a new guy in town, with zero ties to Foles, who drafted a QB. This is usually a sign that he is not sold on the in-house options. The fact that he played against Foles for 3 years only adds fuel to the fire. He likes Foles, if he didn't he'd have been more aggressive in looking for a replacement. Does he like him as a starer though? Based on his actions so far, my needle points towards no. Foles will probably get an opportunity, but the leash will be short. His good games last year must become the norm, and he has to score more TD's. If he doesn't his days as a starter will be short lived.
The bolded what I find encouraging. As to not translating to production....did you see the '12 Eagles? Train wreck. In mini camps, Vick and Foles shared time with the 1's. Barkley was with the 2s and 3s. Does it mean anything? Probably not. Its an open competition and the winner(s) have not been named. As a side note, I have no idea why some staffers list Vick as a top-end QB2/borderline QB1. Someone's not paying attention or has tremendous faith in Vick winning the starting job.
I agree with the competition thing but lets get ahead of the curve for once instead of waiting until it becomes obvious. The world still believes it's Vicks job to lose and Barkley is the heir.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.

Weeden was terrible.

And I have a feeling I am going to have an aneurysm before week 1 with people referencing Luck's QB rating last year. Painfully obvious anyone citing that did not watch him play much.

Again, it's just pieces of information. I have made it clear on here since day 1 I am not a Foles fan. I also noted encouraging signs last year, to be fair. Still, in the end, his performance was poor. He had a couple of decent, but not great, games. He showed better poise in the pocket in late December than he did in November. This is encouraging. That it didn't translate to production, not so much.

Now there's a new guy in town, with zero ties to Foles, who drafted a QB. This is usually a sign that he is not sold on the in-house options. The fact that he played against Foles for 3 years only adds fuel to the fire. He likes Foles, if he didn't he'd have been more aggressive in looking for a replacement. Does he like him as a starer though? Based on his actions so far, my needle points towards no. Foles will probably get an opportunity, but the leash will be short. His good games last year must become the norm, and he has to score more TD's. If he doesn't his days as a starter will be short lived.

The bolded what I find encouraging. As to not translating to production....did you see the '12 Eagles? Train wreck.

In mini camps, Vick and Foles shared time with the 1's. Barkley was with the 2s and 3s. Does it mean anything? Probably not. Its an open competition and the winner(s) have not been named.

As a side note, I have no idea why some staffers list Vick as a top-end QB2/borderline QB1. Someone's not paying attention or has tremendous faith in Vick winning the starting job.

I avoided all things Eagles last year because I expected a train wreck. I did watch them though, after the season was lost too. I watch a lot of bad teams late in the year, so I can to try to get an edge on others who are not watching. Foles showed signs of being a good backup QB, about it.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.
Weeden was terrible. And I have a feeling I am going to have an aneurysm before week 1 with people referencing Luck's QB rating last year. Painfully obvious anyone citing that did not watch him play much. Again, it's just pieces of information. I have made it clear on here since day 1 I am not a Foles fan. I also noted encouraging signs last year, to be fair. Still, in the end, his performance was poor. He had a couple of decent, but not great, games. He showed better poise in the pocket in late December than he did in November. This is encouraging. That it didn't translate to production, not so much. Now there's a new guy in town, with zero ties to Foles, who drafted a QB. This is usually a sign that he is not sold on the in-house options. The fact that he played against Foles for 3 years only adds fuel to the fire. He likes Foles, if he didn't he'd have been more aggressive in looking for a replacement. Does he like him as a starer though? Based on his actions so far, my needle points towards no. Foles will probably get an opportunity, but the leash will be short. His good games last year must become the norm, and he has to score more TD's. If he doesn't his days as a starter will be short lived.
Well don't mentioned QB rating if you're not going hold every under the same light. I just like mentioning Luck to catch people attention about how well Foles played statistically in his last 4 games as a rookie while Luck was struggling to comple 50% of his throws.I can't point to a few dropped TD's from Foles WR/TE, especially vs CIN and the game ending drive vs WAS. We're talking about 1 or 2 TD from completely shuting down that TD argument and it's not really that bad if you ask me.

It's one piece of information. If you evaluate the full package from Luck you'll see citing QB rating does not tell anything close to the whole story. When you evaluate other pieces concerning Foles you see a very mediocre QB. I expect a lower comp % and more INT's when you're continually going down field like Luck did last year, especially when you consider that 4 of his primary weapons were also rookies, his line also sucked, and one of his two other primary weapons was a journeyman - Wayne was the only quality option on that offense with any experience.

If Foles plays like he did last year his upside is Andy Dalton without AJ Green. i.e. a good backup QB

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.
It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL. I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach. But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses. It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.
It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.
Exactly. Been saying that since November. I have no stake in foles. If hes good then good. If he's not id like to find out this year when it doesn't matter.
What makes you think this year doesn't matter?
Not necessarily that it doesn't matter. Its a transition year. We're not winning the super bowl this year. So using this year to develop players and finding out what you have is preferable to running an aging veteran that is often injured out there just to win a few more games.
I just watched Flacco vs Kaepernick in the superbowl. Nick Foles is the best QB on the team, it's not even close. He is more accurate, throws less turnovers, and puts the team in scoring position. If you let the media tell it Vick is keeping te seat warm for Matt Barkley and Foles doesn't exist. Vick does not give us the best chance at winning. That's just as true as Matt Flynn giving the Seahawks a better chance at winning last season. Where have you guys been the past few years? He was good for one part of a season, and then a decade ago he was interesting. At best he is a mediocre QB and a unreal athlete. Thats not hard to say.I'd rather hear about how Foles is progressing than Vick telling the coach what to do, how fast he is and setting his sights on 1000 rushing yards. Who cares.. I think Foles starts openning day and Vick is in Jacksonville or something.
Did you even read what I said because your response doesn't sound like you did.

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Mr Non Sequitur, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:34, said:

Insein, on 08 Jun 2013 - 16:29, said:Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.

That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
I'm not sure why you're bringing Andy Reid into this.
It's really simple, who was at the controls during the 18 month debacle of summer 2011 thru the 2012 season? It seems most of the posters in here point to that 2 year stint and hold Vick accountable for all of it and forget all the other years Vick has logged in the NFL. I am of the mind set that Reid had no business coaching the team last year, his press conferences and interactions with the media seem like a man who was not connected to what was actually happening. I also think Vick had just about the worst OL at times and he has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons as well. The OL is a lot better this year IMO, maybe the Eagles are not going to win a lot of games, I'm not super high on Kelly after he said no and then eventually agreed to coach. But I think Vick is better than Foles and better than several other starting QBs in the NFL, I would not say that about Foles. Vick has proven he can win in the NFL, he's proven he can do some sick damage in the right system, he was the 1st QB to win a road playoff game in Green Bay, and he is 32/33 years old. Qbs are playing until they are in their late 30s these days. Vick can play another 3-4 years in this league, he is still the fastest QB in the NFL. More teams are turning towards a read option, pistol, Vick is suited for those types of offenses. It just seems like Philly supporters want him gone and I'm not sure the team will be better with Foles. I can start to understand why Vick is wanting them to make a decision because if he sin't gonna be in Philly then he needs to find a new home quickly.
It's not that Philly supporters want him gone per se. The issue here is that at 33 years old and being in a rebuilding period. Even if everything goes 100% according to plan the team is at least 2-3 years away from competing for the Super Bowl. So if you keep Vick around he'll be 35 by then? The point is he's never been the best passer, he was good because of the things he could make happen with his legs. As an actually pocket QB he has been mediocre at best aside from 2010. Kelly is smart and he's looking toward the future. They will probably end this second around 6-10 or 7-9. If they give Foles a shot and he's awful the first half of the season they have the option of testing out Barkely as well. If both of them look like Blaine Gabbert they'll be setup with a prime draft pick next year when a few decent prospects at the position are coming out and could set themselves up with a franchise QB.
Exactly. Been saying that since November. I have no stake in foles. If hes good then good. If he's not id like to find out this year when it doesn't matter.
What makes you think this year doesn't matter?
Not necessarily that it doesn't matter. Its a transition year. We're not winning the super bowl this year. So using this year to develop players and finding out what you have is preferable to running an aging veteran that is often injured out there just to win a few more games.
I just watched Flacco vs Kaepernick in the superbowl. Nick Foles is the best QB on the team, it's not even close. He is more accurate, throws less turnovers, and puts the team in scoring position. If you let the media tell it Vick is keeping te seat warm for Matt Barkley and Foles doesn't exist. Vick does not give us the best chance at winning. That's just as true as Matt Flynn giving the Seahawks a better chance at winning last season. Where have you guys been the past few years? He was good for one part of a season, and then a decade ago he was interesting. At best he is a mediocre QB and a unreal athlete. Thats not hard to say.I'd rather hear about how Foles is progressing than Vick telling the coach what to do, how fast he is and setting his sights on 1000 rushing yards. Who cares.. I think Foles starts openning day and Vick is in Jacksonville or something.
Did you even read what I said because your response doesn't sound like you did.
The odds are against every team in the league to win a superbowl. That is easy to say. You're making it sound like the Eagles shouldn't even try to compete for a title and Foles should play for reasons other than talent. If I thought Vick was a better QB than I would want him to start. I went on a rant but playing your best 11 is a pretty simple concept. Most of the starters are returning on offense, so who exactly are you developing? This is not a conventional rebuild project like the staffs that took over for the Jags or Browns. I'm sure Chip Kelly would have stayed with the ducks if he thought that was the case.

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The odds are against every team in the league to win a superbowl. That is easy to say. You're making it sound like the Eagles shouldn't even try to compete for a title and Foles should play for reasons other than talent. If I thought Vick was a better QB than I would want him to start. I went on a rant but playing your best 11 is a pretty simple concept. Most of the starters are returning on offense, so who exactly are you developing? This is not a conventional rebuild project like the staffs that took over for the Jags or Browns. I'm sure Chip Kelly would have stayed with the ducks if he thought that was the case.

Yea you didn't understand me at all then.I was saying that Foles is about even with Vick as it is. So what advantage is there to playing Vick at all or even keeping him on this team when we're in year one of rebuilding? You might as well play Foles to see what he has. I'm not sold on him by a long shot but he showed flashes last year. Enough to give him the starting job at the beginning of this season anyway. You play him to see what you have. If he plays great, then you have your QB. If he's ok but not perfect for Kelly, then you increased his trade value. If he sucks, then you know you can cut him after the year and move on.If you think that the starting 11 for the team from the last 2 years was good enough, then you're already operating on a faulty premise. DJax and Maclin have shown that they are not #1 WRs in this league so far. Maybe Kelly can coax something more out of them but to me they are not top WRs in this league. The oline had signs of being great but now 3 of the 5 returning starters are coming off of season ending injuries. Who knows how good they will be. On top of that, we don't know what we have at QB. That's why it would be good to find out instead of throwing out an aging Veteran who still thinks he's the #1 overall pick.This is just like every other rebuilding process in the league. IF you don't think of it that way and try to make quick fixes assuming that past talent will continue then we'll be right back where we started 2 years from now. I have faith that Kelly knows what he's doing to get this turned around but I don't expect more than 6 wins this year. I just want to see some progress as the QB position in particular.

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The odds are against every team in the league to win a superbowl. That is easy to say. You're making it sound like the Eagles shouldn't even try to compete for a title and Foles should play for reasons other than talent. If I thought Vick was a better QB than I would want him to start. I went on a rant but playing your best 11 is a pretty simple concept. Most of the starters are returning on offense, so who exactly are you developing? This is not a conventional rebuild project like the staffs that took over for the Jags or Browns. I'm sure Chip Kelly would have stayed with the ducks if he thought that was the case.

Yea you didn't understand me at all then.I was saying that Foles is about even with Vick as it is. So what advantage is there to playing Vick at all or even keeping him on this team when we're in year one of rebuilding? You might as well play Foles to see what he has. I'm not sold on him by a long shot but he showed flashes last year. Enough to give him the starting job at the beginning of this season anyway. You play him to see what you have. If he plays great, then you have your QB. If he's ok but not perfect for Kelly, then you increased his trade value. If he sucks, then you know you can cut him after the year and move on.If you think that the starting 11 for the team from the last 2 years was good enough, then you're already operating on a faulty premise. DJax and Maclin have shown that they are not #1 WRs in this league so far. Maybe Kelly can coax something more out of them but to me they are not top WRs in this league. The oline had signs of being great but now 3 of the 5 returning starters are coming off of season ending injuries. Who knows how good they will be. On top of that, we don't know what we have at QB. That's why it would be good to find out instead of throwing out an aging Veteran who still thinks he's the #1 overall pick.This is just like every other rebuilding process in the league. IF you don't think of it that way and try to make quick fixes assuming that past talent will continue then we'll be right back where we started 2 years from now. I have faith that Kelly knows what he's doing to get this turned around but I don't expect more than 6 wins this year. I just want to see some progress as the QB position in particular.
Ok, I get you.I'll agreeably disagree for a few reasons. I think Foles is the best QB on the team, but Vick's new contract give you a cheap option to see if you can run read-option. I can't argue with that. A lot of problems the Eagles WR's had much to do with Vick. When Vick was productive everyone loved Desean Jackson. Maclin had close to 1,000 yards and 10 TDs with good QB play. Is there a guy that can elevate the QB's production like Dez, Julio, or Megatron, no. The issue you have with the o-line is one that I was not thinking about honestly. Mathis, Peters and Lane Johnson still leaves me optimistic. I'm more concern with what's happening with the defense. There are good LB/DE in place but thats about it. Some of them are making transition to new positions as well.I agree the birds are rebuilding, but I don't see a huge talent dropoff in comparison to some of the lower seeds that made the playoffs or teams that were a few games from making the playoffs.

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Still think Barkley finishes the season as the starter. Foles may begin, or sub in for Vick, but I doubt he ends the season as the guy. He made progress last season, but his starting point was low and his end point still wasn't any good.

Only rookie in NFL history to avg 240 y/g with 60 comp%.
Fun with arbitrary statistics can yield whatever result you want it to. I think 6 TD's in 7 games (Matt Cassel had same # of TD's in just 12 more throws, Kolb had more with much less), a yards per throw of 6.41 (29th), and a QB rating sub 80 (23rd) says a lot more. He made his living between the 20's, something good QB's do not.
That was with a backup O-Line, backup WR, sorry defense and a lame duck coach. A lot of that changed since last season. Kolb and Cassel were not rookies... ypa shouldn't be friendly to a west coast Offense QB.. I really don't pay QB ratings any mind but like I said he was a rookie. His QB rating was higher than Luck, Weeden and Tannehill might I add.
Weeden was terrible. And I have a feeling I am going to have an aneurysm before week 1 with people referencing Luck's QB rating last year. Painfully obvious anyone citing that did not watch him play much. Again, it's just pieces of information. I have made it clear on here since day 1 I am not a Foles fan. I also noted encouraging signs last year, to be fair. Still, in the end, his performance was poor. He had a couple of decent, but not great, games. He showed better poise in the pocket in late December than he did in November. This is encouraging. That it didn't translate to production, not so much. Now there's a new guy in town, with zero ties to Foles, who drafted a QB. This is usually a sign that he is not sold on the in-house options. The fact that he played against Foles for 3 years only adds fuel to the fire. He likes Foles, if he didn't he'd have been more aggressive in looking for a replacement. Does he like him as a starer though? Based on his actions so far, my needle points towards no. Foles will probably get an opportunity, but the leash will be short. His good games last year must become the norm, and he has to score more TD's. If he doesn't his days as a starter will be short lived.
Well don't mentioned QB rating if you're not going hold every under the same light. I just like mentioning Luck to catch people attention about how well Foles played statistically in his last 4 games as a rookie while Luck was struggling to comple 50% of his throws.I can't point to a few dropped TD's from Foles WR/TE, especially vs CIN and the game ending drive vs WAS. We're talking about 1 or 2 TD from completely shuting down that TD argument and it's not really that bad if you ask me.
It's one piece of information. If you evaluate the full package from Luck you'll see citing QB rating does not tell anything close to the whole story. When you evaluate other pieces concerning Foles you see a very mediocre QB. I expect a lower comp % and more INT's when you're continually going down field like Luck did last year, especially when you consider that 4 of his primary weapons were also rookies, his line also sucked, and one of his two other primary weapons was a journeyman - Wayne was the only quality option on that offense with any experience. If Foles plays like he did last year his upside is Andy Dalton without AJ Green. i.e. a good backup QB
Andy Dalton took one of the cheapest franchise in the league to back to back playoff appearances whether you like his style or not. That's a compliment to me. He has a much stronger arm than Dalton. The O-Line cause him to be a game manager. He was throwing bombs left and right in college and preseason. Edited by ShaHBucks

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Andy Dalton has two reads - first option and AJ - if both are no he tucks it and runs. He is on a good enough team to get them barely into the playoffs then bow out without a fight in round one, as they've done each of his first two seasons. He will have to learn to not be chicken #### in the pocket if they will go any further. I saw the same tendencies from Foles throughout his college career and it continued last year. I thought it wasn't as bad in his last few games as it was early on, but until he does it consistently I won't believe it to be the case.

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I'm not a fan of creative stats. He played 6 games. I thought he improved in each game. I want to see more of him. I'm not getting carried away though. He still has a lot to prove on the field. Lets not go overboard here.

He was pretty awesome for a rookie. I like looking at the stats, in cohesion with watching games, because your eyes can decieve you a lot. The stats actually backup what I see from him on the field. A lot of people seen what they initially thought, a 3rd round backup QB. He won't shake that stigma until he over proves himself like Russel Wilson did this year. Edited by ShaHBucks

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I'm not a fan of creative stats. He played 6 games. I thought he improved in each game. I want to see more of him. I'm not getting carried away though. He still has a lot to prove on the field. Lets not go overboard here.

I think this is the general feeling amongst Eagle fans

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I'm not a fan of creative stats. He played 6 games. I thought he improved in each game. I want to see more of him. I'm not getting carried away though. He still has a lot to prove on the field. Lets not go overboard here.

He was pretty awesome for a rookie. I like looking at the stats, in cohesion with watching games, because your eyes can decieve you a lot. The stats actually backup what I see from him on the field. A lot of people seen what they initially thought, a 3rd round backup QB. He won't shake that stigma until he over proves himself like Russel Wilson did this year.

Rusell wilson shattered that stigma. Foles started poorly but got better as he went. Again lets not get carried away. He's not a scrub and he's not a star. He's a guy still trying to prove he should be the starter. Lets see what camp brings. I'm rooting for him.

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Rotoworld:

Appearing on NFL32 Tuesday, ESPN's Chris Mortensen said it was his "understanding" that Michael Vick made more mistakes "decision-making wise" than Nick Foles in Eagles OTAs.

Mort also hinted he does not expect new coach Chip Kelly to simply hand Vick the starting job despite his pedigree and salary. Mort believes the winner of the Eagles' quarterback competition will be the player to "buy in and execute what (Kelly) wants done." Foles should have little issue buying in, but his lack of mobility hurts his chances to properly execute Kelly's offense.
Related: Nick Foles

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Rotoworld:

CSN Philly considers Nick Foles the leader in the Eagles' quarterback competition.

Beat writer Geoff Mosher believes Chip Kelly's selection of Matt Barkley signalled he was serious when he insisted his offense didn't require a mobile quarterback. Mosher also contends Foles and Michael Vick's 50-50 timeshare in OTAs "further fostered the idea" that Kelly will select the quarterback with the best overall skill-set, and not just athleticism. We've been skeptical there's a true competition going on in Philly, but there's now enough smoke to suggest that Foles at least has an outside shot. It's just hard to get past the $3.5 million signing bonus the Eagles gave Vick in February.
Related: Michael Vick
Source: CSN Philly

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Other than the money they've already spent, what's Vick's cap hit if they cut him? And how much cash do they save?

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Other than the money they've already spent, what's Vick's cap hit if they cut him? And how much cash do they save?

I'm going off of memory but I believe we would owe him 3 million and save 7

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Other than the money they've already spent, what's Vick's cap hit if they cut him? And how much cash do they save?

I'm going off of memory but I believe we would owe him 3 million and save 7

I don't know what the numbers are, but I believe its supposed to be very team friendly and not cost prohibitive to cut or trade him if they so desired. Why people outside Philly continue to just pencil in Vick as the starter (and rank him as such) is beyond me. Everything I've heard has them as either dead even or Foles with a slight advantage. For Rotoworld to give Foles "an outside shot" to win the starting job tells me they're not paying attention.

Here's what Mosher actually wrote, from the article linked by Rotoworld:

Q. Do you feel [Nick] Foles has a better chance than [Mike] Vick still?

A. I really do. Months ago, I felt Vick had the best chance to start.

<snip>

Now, it’s obvious to me that Vick actually has the toughest road to the starting job, more than Foles or Barkley. At 33, which he turned last month, he’s far and away the oldest quarterback on the roster. At more than $7 million this year, he’s also far and away the most expensive. New coaches tend to build their programs around young franchise signal callers, not aging ones whose best days are well behind them.

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Looks like they're paying him $7.5m of which they've already given $3.5 as a signing bonus. I never know exactly how this works, but I think cutting him would mean a cap hit of $3.5m, and a cap/cash savings of $4m.

Given how cheap the QB position would be without Vick they could eat the $3.5m. Actually, given how cheap the QB position is overall they could eat the full salary with Vick on the bench or use him only in a limited role as part of read option packages.

Edited by wdcrob

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Looks like they're paying him $7.5m of which they've already given $3.5 as a signing bonus. I never know exactly how this works, but I think cutting him would mean a cap hit of $3.5m, and a cap/cash savings of $4m.

Given how cheap the QB position would be without Vick they could eat the $3.5m. Actually, given how cheap the QB position is overall they could eat the full salary with Vick on the bench or use him only in a limited role as part of read option packages.

Even though I think he gets cut, I personally wouldnt do it. Just in case Foles through 3-4 weeks gets hurt or just isnt what they thought he (Vick) would be nice to add in there for a couple weeks before letting Barkley play...but I'm just a fan lol

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I'm not a fan of creative stats. He played 6 games. I thought he improved in each game. I want to see more of him. I'm not getting carried away though. He still has a lot to prove on the field. Lets not go overboard here.

I too, am not a fan of creative stats......although, when closely looking at the article, the only creative stat the author made up was the "effectiveness" of Foles, by trying to correlate his QB rating to other QB's drafted 1st overall in the last 20 years, claiming he would have ranked 2nd amongst that crowd, while also trying to substantiate the creative stat with a comment about NFL teams with #1 picks generally stinking, otherwise they wouldn't have had those #1 picks, and equating it to the Eagles stinking also in Foles rookie season. Let's face it, the Eagles stank last year, for a variety of reasons, and Foles persevered. In the author's final sentence, he simply stated, "......looking realistically at where he should be heading into his 2nd season as a pro, ...it's fine to have some level of optimism about Nick Foles."

I don't read this as the author going overboard. I think it's fair and reasonable to expect a certain level of optimism amongst fans and fantasy ballers when considering Nick Foles possible role as the starting QB of the Philadelphia Eagles going forward.

Edited by Ruffrodys05

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I'm not a fan of creative stats. He played 6 games. I thought he improved in each game. I want to see more of him. I'm not getting carried away though. He still has a lot to prove on the field. Lets not go overboard here.

I too, am not a fan of creative stats......although, when closely looking at the article, the only creative stat the author made up was the "effectiveness" of Foles, by trying to correlate his QB rating to other QB's drafted 1st overall in the last 20 years, claiming he would have ranked 2nd amongst that crowd, while also trying to substantiate the creative stat with a comment about NFL teams with #1 picks generally stinking, otherwise they wouldn't have had those #1 picks, and equating it to the Eagles stinking also in Foles rookie season. Let's face it, the Eagles stank last year, for a variety of reasons, and Foles persevered. In the author's final sentence, he simply stated, "......looking realistically at where he should be heading into his 2nd season as a pro, ...it's fine to have some level of optimism about Nick Foles."

I don't read this as the author going overboard. I think it's fair and reasonable to expect a certain level of optimism amongst fans and fantasy ballers when considering Nick Foles possible role as the starting QB of the Philadelphia Eagles going forward.

Like I said I'm personally optimistic but I feel like some people are anointing him a top 10 qb this year. Setting too high a bar is a disservice. Lets let him grow into the role and see what he becomes.

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I'm not a fan of creative stats. He played 6 games. I thought he improved in each game. I want to see more of him. I'm not getting carried away though. He still has a lot to prove on the field. Lets not go overboard here.

I too, am not a fan of creative stats......although, when closely looking at the article, the only creative stat the author made up was the "effectiveness" of Foles, by trying to correlate his QB rating to other QB's drafted 1st overall in the last 20 years, claiming he would have ranked 2nd amongst that crowd, while also trying to substantiate the creative stat with a comment about NFL teams with #1 picks generally stinking, otherwise they wouldn't have had those #1 picks, and equating it to the Eagles stinking also in Foles rookie season. Let's face it, the Eagles stank last year, for a variety of reasons, and Foles persevered. In the author's final sentence, he simply stated, "......looking realistically at where he should be heading into his 2nd season as a pro, ...it's fine to have some level of optimism about Nick Foles."

I don't read this as the author going overboard. I think it's fair and reasonable to expect a certain level of optimism amongst fans and fantasy ballers when considering Nick Foles possible role as the starting QB of the Philadelphia Eagles going forward.

Like I said I'm personally optimistic but I feel like some people are anointing him a top 10 qb this year. Setting too high a bar is a disservice. Lets let him grow into the role and see what he becomes.

Where did you see that? I haven't seen that anywhere in this thread or any other either.

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Listen to beat writers / reporters at your own peril.

I'll continue to evaluate, successfully, year after year, by watching players with my own eyes.

My view: Vick is the better QB and will start, unless Vick, or Foles in preseason shows me otherwise.

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Listen to beat writers / reporters at your own peril.

I'll continue to evaluate, successfully, year after year, by watching players with my own eyes.

My view: Vick is the better QB and will start, unless Vick, or Foles in preseason shows me otherwise.

Draft either one at your own risk considering the beat writers and reporters are the only ones who have actually seen either one this year. Complete toss up at this point as to who will be the starter. Maybe it will become clearer when camp opens.

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