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Dynasty: NON-Draft eligible College prospects (2 Viewers)
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
HOUSTON - When Texas native David Cobb wondered aloud if he’d made a mistake by picking the Gophers and a new coaching staff that seemed to critique his every move, his father offered calm assurances.One guy who is eligible this year but definitely will not come out is junior running back David Cobb of the Gophers. He didn't really play at all first two years and wasn't supposed to be the starter this year but looked good in limited action early and took over as the starter. He now has 1,111 yards and 7 TDs on 219 carries for an average of 5.1 ypc. He's also caught 16 passes for another 162 yards.
He's got good size at 5-11 and 225 pounds.
I'm not saying he's going to be a stud. In fact, at this point, I'm sure he wouldn't even get drafted. But he could have an even bigger year next year, and then who knows. The Gophers' passing offense is terrible, so defenses continually load the box, but he's still produced.
He seems to me to have great vision, has produced even when hurt (like this weekend against Michigan State's top-ranked defense), breaks a lot of tackles and is faster than you think. He's very physical but is also pretty nifty in the hole, seems to make something out of nothing quite often.
He could be one of these "out of nowhere" guys next year.
Last time I "made a call" on a local guy no one had heard of was Eric Decker.
Caesar Cobb is a retired Army lieutenant and a former professor of military science at Alcorn State University. He and his wife, Nina, raised two older sons who became college football players, so they’d seen it all before.
“I knew what the coaches were doing,” Caesar said. “I told him his time would come.”
Cobb had rushed for 2,946 yards as a three-year starter at Ellison High School in Killeen, Texas. But he rushed for only 57 yards as a freshman with the Gophers and carried only once for 8 yards as a sophomore.
Last year, when the Gophers went to Houston for the Meineke Car Care Bowl against Texas Tech, Cobb’s family held a reunion. His older brother, Daniel, was on Texas Tech’s roster but didn’t dress for the game. Cobb’s duties were limited to kickoff coverage.
“It’s not embarrassing, but that’s kind of how it felt,” David Cobb said. “You go to a college, and [family members] expect you to play, and you don’t really touch the field. In the back of your mind, you just really want that one opportunity, but it just never comes.”
The opportunity finally arrived this season, and Cobb took full advantage, becoming the Gophers first running back to top the 1,000-yard mark since Amir Pinnix in 2006. Minnesota is back in Houston for Friday’s Texas Bowl, this time against Syracuse, and Cobb is expected to play a vital role.
Of the 125 teams in the Football Bowl Subdivision, Syracuse is the only team yet to allow a 100-yard rusher this season. Cobb had six such games this season, and the Gophers can’t wait to see what he can do against the Orange.
“He’s worked very hard,” Gophers coach Jerry Kill said. “It’s a great lesson for our young players that sometimes you just don’t get everything in life right now. You have to earn it and work for it.”
A foot in the door
Cobb’s determination to make his mark as a college running back stems from a childhood growing up in Texas, Mississippi and even Germany.
He was born in Killeen, Texas — about 200 miles northwest of Houston — before the family moved to Gloster, Miss. Caesar Cobb had played running back briefly at Alcorn State before enlisting in the Army, and his three sons were all drawn to football.
The oldest, Caesar Jr., went on to play at Alcorn State. The middle son, Daniel, transferred from Texas Tech to Louisiana Tech this year, and the linebacker wound up leading the Bulldogs with 82 tackles and 12 tackles for loss.
“One brother is four years older, and the other is two years older, and David always tried to keep up with them,” Caesar Cobb said. “That definitely gave him some toughness.”
When David was in elementary school, the family moved overseas while his father was stationed in Vilseck, Germany.
“The first year there, my three boys played soccer; they didn’t have any football over there,” Caesar Cobb said. “So the next year we formed a Pop Warner tackling football league.”
Eventually, the Cobbs returned to Killeen, near Fort Hood. This allowed Cobb and his brothers to play at the highest level of Texas high school football — 5A — at Ellison, and each of them thrived.
As a 5-11 running back, David Cobb wasn’t flooded with Division I scholarship offers, but Stanford was among the schools that showed interest. Kill’s staff had just been hired at Minnesota, so Cobb wound up committing eight days after national signing day.
“We kind of got on him late because we got here late,” Kill said.
Kill asked Cobb at the time if he’d be willing to play another position, such as safety.
“I told him ‘Yes sir,’ but in the back of my mind, I wanted to play running back,” Cobb said. “I just had to get my foot in the door.”
Hanging onto his job
Cobb played on special teams as a freshman and started making inroads as a running back before injuring his hamstring. His lack of playing time as a sophomore wasn’t injury-related. He was simply buried on the depth chart.
The coaches felt Cobb had as much talent as any running back on the team, but he had a lot of maturing to do.
“If I took the wrong step, Coach Kill pointed it out in a team meeting,” Cobb said. “It was like they never compliment you on the good things, but he just never gave up on me.
“He always told me he was pushing me for a reason and that if he didn’t care about me, he wouldn’t push me. At times, as a young player, you don’t understand that.”
Donnell Kirkwood led the Gophers with 926 rushing yards last year, but he sprained an ankle in this year’s season opener. Cobb helped fill the void and emerged as the team’s clear No. 1 running back after Rodrick Williams Jr. suffered a turf toe injury.
Cobb has played through a shoulder injury that might require offseason surgery, multiple hip pointers and assorted other bruises. In the regular-season finale at Michigan State, he got spiked on the right knee, but still finished with 27 carries for 101 yards.
“My knee got busted open, and it was just dripping, and I had a lot of meat and skin just hanging off,” Cobb said. “I told them to wrap it up and we’ll just deal with it later, but there’s no way I’m letting another person have that opportunity.”
Cobb’s family held another reunion in Houston this week. His first cousin, Damien Wilson, has emerged as the Gophers’ starting middle linebacker, and between the two cousins, they’ll have more than 40 friends and family members at the game.
Afterward, they’re headed to Mississippi, where Cobb hopes to kick back and celebrate.
“Only if we win, though,” he said. “If we don’t, it’ll be a long ride.”
Link
EBF
Footballguy
Cobb is on the radar. Not sure he has a future as a top 100 pick, but it's possible and he could be an interesting day 3 guy. We'll see what he does tonight.
Another guy I like for day 3 of next year's draft is Virginia RB Kevin Parks. He doesn't have very much speed and isn't an explosive runner (4.X YPC each of the past seasons supports that observation), but he has been pretty steady throughout his career. 700+ rushing yards all three seasons including 1000+ yards this year on an otherwise terrible Virginia team (only one FBS win). If I were an NFL GM and I already had a high end starter at RB, he's exactly the kind of guy I would target in the 4th-7th round for a backup role. Steady, compact power runner with a little bit of quickness who offers plus skills as a pass catcher (38 catches in 12 games this year). Sort of like a cross between a Rudi Johnson/Shonn Greene kind of guy and Pierre Thomas.
He's not someone that I would take in the top 15 of a devy draft because he doesn't appear to have an obvious future as a starter, but he's a quality depth player.
Another guy I like for day 3 of next year's draft is Virginia RB Kevin Parks. He doesn't have very much speed and isn't an explosive runner (4.X YPC each of the past seasons supports that observation), but he has been pretty steady throughout his career. 700+ rushing yards all three seasons including 1000+ yards this year on an otherwise terrible Virginia team (only one FBS win). If I were an NFL GM and I already had a high end starter at RB, he's exactly the kind of guy I would target in the 4th-7th round for a backup role. Steady, compact power runner with a little bit of quickness who offers plus skills as a pass catcher (38 catches in 12 games this year). Sort of like a cross between a Rudi Johnson/Shonn Greene kind of guy and Pierre Thomas.
He's not someone that I would take in the top 15 of a devy draft because he doesn't appear to have an obvious future as a starter, but he's a quality depth player.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
How do you guys rank the big name devy WR's in relation to each other?
In no particular order:
Cooper
Diggs
DGB
Treadwell
Parker
Boyd
Am I missing anyone obvious?
In no particular order:
Cooper
Diggs
DGB
Treadwell
Parker
Boyd
Am I missing anyone obvious?
EBF
Footballguy
I think you'd see Stacy Coley (Miami) and Marquez North (Tennessee) on most lists. Sammie Coates from Auburn is up there too. Ricky Seals-Jones from Texas A&M was a massive recruit, but tore up his knee in the first game this year. He's a player who could factor into the equation in deeper drafts. Based on height/weight, immediate achievements, and recruiting profile, Damore'ea Stringfellow from Washington is another player who should probably get a spot at the bottom of most watch lists. I'm curious to see if he makes any impact in the bowl game tonight.
Overall, I'm not that impressed with the 2015/2016 WR offerings at this point. One thing to watch is if some of the fringe 2nd-3rd round prospects who are eligible for the 2014 draft come back to a school. Guys like Donte Moncrief (Ole Miss), Cody Latimer (Indiana), Ty Montgomery (Stanford), and Antwan Goodley (Baylor) could give next year's draft a modest boost if they decide to stick around for another year of college.
I think the landscape is totally missing the Lee/Watkins first round locks that you could bank on last year though.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
If Cooper and Diggs stay healthy, you don't see them as 1st round locks? One lacks ideal measurables (most likely) and the other ideal height/size. I understand that.
DGB is the biggest wildcard of all IMO. Overrated as a recruit I think, but he might be underrated now as a devy prospect with what he's flashing.
EBF
Footballguy
A year ago maybe, but not at this point. I've said a lot about Diggs by now. He has everything you would want except size. So it just comes down to how important you think frame/strength will be. If he was 6'2" 220 I'd say he's the next Dez Bryant, but unfortunately that's not the case. I could see him in the first round next year. I could also see him falling to the 2nd. You could see from day one that he's NFL material, but that doesn't mean he's destined for FF stardom. He may end up as more of a complementary target than go-to #1 receiver.
Cooper...I don't know. I went along with the hype last year and rated him pretty high. To be honest, he never really popped off the screen as an incredible talent though. It was more about being a big recruit who made a big impact on a top program instead of him being some kind of jaw-dropping monster. Obviously he will play on Sundays and maybe even be a really good starter, but is he a lock first rounder? At this point in time I'd probably say no. And if he does go in the first, I see him as more of a late 1st rounder than possible top 10 overall pick. More of a DeAndre Hopkins than a Julio Jones.
DGB has made strides this year. He's got good height and some vertical ability. He's not the thickest guy and style-wise seems to play more like a stretched out version of somebody like Jeremy Maclin than an imposing big body guy like Calvin Johnson (with whom he's often compared). More of a straight-line speed WR than a power, agility, or open field type of guy. I'm kind of on the fence about him right now. There are some obvious positives. I'm not fully sold though.
My hope with dev prospects is always to uncover someone who looks like a "probably" as opposed to a "maybe." I was pretty sure all along that Andrew Luck, Justin Blackmon, Michael Crabtree, and Dez Bryant would be great in the NFL. Sometimes you see a guy (or several guys) like that on the landscape and sometimes you don't. I've cast a pretty wide net across the NCAA landscape this year. The result is that I have a huge list of prospects with obvious NFL potential (2nd-7th round), but apart from the obvious 2014 guys I'm struggling to find someone who's on that next level (a first round lock).
I'm sure those players exist, but I'm not seeing them. Part of the problem is that when you're looking at HS kids, freshmen, and sophomores, you don't have the benefit of knowing what they'll look like in another year or two. And that's pretty vital because these guys are at an age where some of them are still developing. You probably couldn't have looked at Ryan Mathews in 2007/2008 and known that he would rush for 1800 yards as a junior. Likewise, you probably couldn't have known that Mendenhall would rush for 1681 yards as a junior after he got just 78 carries as a sophomore. Maybe if you were really thorough those guys would've been on your watch list, but you wouldn't have known that they'd be THAT good until it actually happened. So you likely wouldn't have identified them as first round talents until their final college season. It's inevitable that some of these guys are going to slip through your fingers every year when you're looking at them as 1st-2nd year college players.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Thanks for the post, EBF. I certainly can't say you're wrong about any of that.
Although I will say that a couple things do jump off the tape with Cooper--even as a Freshman his route-running was incredibly polished. That's going to impress NFL teams. Hell, it's what's making Allen stand out for the Chargers right now, and he isn't special, physically.
The other thing would be his hands. I think he has one of the best pairs of hands out of all of these names getting thrown around. He had some drops this year, but I attribute that to focusing so much on the pain in his ankle.
Those two things combined are exactly what a guy with his physical profile needs to succeed, if he has a healthy bounce-back year and declares.
As for Diggs, I think I'd be content with a taller Randall Cobb with better ball skills, if that's what he turns out to be. Like you said, there aren't a lot of definite first rounders out there.
Although I will say that a couple things do jump off the tape with Cooper--even as a Freshman his route-running was incredibly polished. That's going to impress NFL teams. Hell, it's what's making Allen stand out for the Chargers right now, and he isn't special, physically.
The other thing would be his hands. I think he has one of the best pairs of hands out of all of these names getting thrown around. He had some drops this year, but I attribute that to focusing so much on the pain in his ankle.
Those two things combined are exactly what a guy with his physical profile needs to succeed, if he has a healthy bounce-back year and declares.
As for Diggs, I think I'd be content with a taller Randall Cobb with better ball skills, if that's what he turns out to be. Like you said, there aren't a lot of definite first rounders out there.
EastonBlues22
Footballguy
My brother is a Mizzou fan so I've seen a decent amount of DGB. I'm not really that impressed, honestly. He's a big guy who has good straight line speed, but he doesn't strike me as an exceptionally fluid athlete. Most of his significant plays are go-routes or jump balls. That skill set alone probably grants him NFL relevance, but I personally don't see the makings of an elite NFL player in him.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
That's exactly how I feel, and matches what I've argued on other forums where people are irrationally high on DGB in some cases.
EBF
Footballguy
I'm in a couple leagues where all college players are eligible in the devy draft (not just the upperclassmen). In that kind of format where guys like Gurley and Yeldon are already gone, I really don't see much of a difference between the #1 devy pick and the #14. I've got the #10 pick in one such league and can't really see myself adding much of anything to it to move up into the top 2-3. I think it's a pretty flat group of prospects. Mainly because none of the RB/WR options look like obvious stars (though I guess I might be hyping Tyner if I didn't already have him in those leagues).
I've got the #2 pick in a more restricted devy where players like Gurley, Yeldon, and Gordon will become available for the first time. Even in that league I'm not as jazzed about the super high pick as I thought I'd be. Just feel like there are lots of "good" prospects out there right now, but not many great ones.
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Vincesanity
Footballguy
A&M is my team and as some have said look out for Ricky Seals Jones next year, he should take Mike Evans spot and could put up crazy numbers.
EBF
Footballguy
He only carried the ball a few times tonight, but Tyner was looking mean against Texas. Big kid. Looks more like the 210-215 he was reported at in the offseason than the 201 he's listed at online. Rare speed for his size. Mass x velocity = scary momentum when he gets moving.
He'll close out his debut season with 711 rushing yards at 6.2 YPC and a handful of catches. Pretty impressive when you consider that he missed much of training camp with an injury and was held out of the opener against Nicholls State while he recovered (that would've been a golden opportunity to pad his stats). By the end of the season he was clearly preferred to De'Anthony Thomas and seemed to be Oregon's preferred pass-catching RB. A lot of observers (including this one) think he's more talented than Marshall and likely to surpass him next season. With a whole offseason to develop, he should come back as the best RB in the Pac-12 next season and one of the best underclassmen RBs in the nation. Given the potential he showed and the fact that I don't see a lot of obvious first round talents out there in the 2015 and 2016 classes, he'd be a solid top 3-5 pick for me in all-class devy drafts this spring.
He'll close out his debut season with 711 rushing yards at 6.2 YPC and a handful of catches. Pretty impressive when you consider that he missed much of training camp with an injury and was held out of the opener against Nicholls State while he recovered (that would've been a golden opportunity to pad his stats). By the end of the season he was clearly preferred to De'Anthony Thomas and seemed to be Oregon's preferred pass-catching RB. A lot of observers (including this one) think he's more talented than Marshall and likely to surpass him next season. With a whole offseason to develop, he should come back as the best RB in the Pac-12 next season and one of the best underclassmen RBs in the nation. Given the potential he showed and the fact that I don't see a lot of obvious first round talents out there in the 2015 and 2016 classes, he'd be a solid top 3-5 pick for me in all-class devy drafts this spring.
Vincesanity
Footballguy
Kevin Hogan.....:/
EBF
Footballguy
I have told people who don't actually watch Stanford games that Hogan and Barry Sanders are very overrated at this point in time. Hogan actually played a decent game yesterday, but so far he's looking more like a Josh McCown/Kyle Boller/Stephen McGee/Jake Locker than an Andrew Luck. Good size and mobility. Funky release. Most importantly, he doesn't have great mental talent. Erratic accuracy. Does not anticipate receivers, stay poised under pressure, show any real improvisational ability, or sustain drives. He will hit 2-3 big throws per game and, with Stanford's defense and running game, that's usually enough. He's nowhere near the level of pure QB that guys like Luck, Foles, and even Sanchez were in college though. He's an athletic project type of guy and those players almost always flop in the NFL. I think he will end up being a career backup like Boller or McCown.
I've often said that the hallmark of a great QB is that when he gets the ball on his own 20 with 2 minutes left on the clock down by 6, you EXPECT him to lead a scoring drive. Hogan is more of a roulette wheel where you HOPE he'll make the necessary plays, but you don't really expect him to. Really, really should not be drafted in dev leagues right now. I can't help but think that the people who tout him don't watch much Stanford football. Same for Sanders, who's maybe 4th-5th string on the RB depth chart and hasn't shown himself to be more talented than the other backup RBs on the roster. At this point in time he's just a name. Avoid.
Brett Hundley is another guy gets lots of love from draft pundits, but whom I'd probably be inclined to pass on. I don't know if there's a great draft-eligible QB in the Pac-12 right now. I did not see anyone who really impressed me this year. Most of the legitimate NFL talent is at other positions right now.
watched the Rose Bowl and came away not very impressed with him. His release seems a little elongated for my tastes and there may be some kind of trust factor that the coaching staff doesn't have with him yet (or maybe it was their play calling). Like his size, arm strength and mobility. Wouldn't use a devy pick on him unless a very deep draft... still on my radar for re-draft and hope he takes the next step in his development.
Side bar: how hurt is Ty Montgomery? Was curious to see him play...
Side bar: how hurt is Ty Montgomery? Was curious to see him play...
EBF
Footballguy
They don't trust him because he isn't that good. Dial up the USC game where he threw two back-breaking picks. Luck had his ugly moments early in his career (literally threw away the win against Cal in 2009). But overall Andrew was a machine at running the offense. He would pick you apart all game with 8-15 yard gains. Just nothing you could do to stop it. He would also make ridiculous touch throws and consistently make positive plays out of nothing. I can honestly say from DAY ONE you could see the special ability. I was hyping him up all along as in here and here.
Hogan is not even on the same planet as a QB. I would describe him as solid college QB. He's big and athletic. He can run for first downs. As I mentioned, he's usually good for about 2-3 big throws per game. Like last night hitting Rector and Cajuste for long gains. He has weird mechanics though and where he really falls short is with his efficiency and consistency. You would not assume that he's going to convert 3-and-long whereas you would always bet on Andrew to do it. That's the simplest way I can explain the difference between the two.
I wouldn't suggest that I know everything about every prospect, but the Pac-12 is my local league and I tend to have a pretty good handle on the talent in the region. I was the first person to mention Marqise Lee on these boards and the first person to mention Keenan Allen. That wasn't because I had some kind of great scouting ability. That's only because I actually watch these teams play and when you see an awesome talent on the field it's usually pretty obvious. When I see people hyping up guys like Hogan and Sanders, it just tells me that they aren't watching the games and (at least with regards to those players) don't really know what they're talking about. There is no way you could watch 3-4 of Hogan's games and think you're looking at a likely top 10 pick.
It's possible that he could improve in the next two years and become a real top level prospect. My hunch is that he simply lacks certain innate skills that can't be coached. Sort of like Boller and Locker. So I think he'll end up being a day 2-3 pick and probably a career backup. Funny thing is, he didn't play that bad last night though. I thought he played okay actually. They lost that game for other reasons.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Treadwell > Cooper
EBF
Footballguy
I'd be surprised by that. Stanford runs a complex offense. Luck did not play as a true freshman. Neither did Hogan. Hogan did not start until midway through his redshirt freshman season. In both cases these guys were obviously a lot more talented than the starter who played ahead of them. They just weren't ready to come in and be the man yet. Hogan has been good enough to help get Stanford to back-to-back Rose Bowl appearances, so I think he'll have a pretty long leash.
loose circuits
Footballguy
Just catching 2nd half of sugar bowl, did Yeldon get beat out by an Eddy Lacy clone in this Henry cat?
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
Supposedly Drake is in Saban's doghouse for questionning his lack of carries against Auburn on Twitter. So Henry has been bumped to 2nd string for the bowl game. But it is surprising that he is getting more action than Yeldon in the 2nd half tonight so far.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
What's more surprising is that he looks better and more explosive than Yeldon does.
EBF
Footballguy
Same haircut. Different body type and style. Impressive speed/acceleration on that screen though. It looked like it was going to be a modest gain and then all of a sudden he pulled away like it was nothing.
Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
Not discounting this but curious...Weren't we saying the same thing about Yeldon outplaying Trent and Lacy when he would spell them? Is this just an Alabama fresh RB thing?
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
I think that's a big part of it. The newest Bama RB always seems to get hyped the most. But at the same time, every Alabama RB is good. So in a devy league I'd do my best to ignore the hype machine, but I'd definitely also look real close at any/every Bama RB that gets touches.
jurb26
Footballguy
Not sure what most people think, but for me I started to sour on Yeldon last year and felt at the end of the season Lacy was better than him. I don't recall anyone thinking Yeldon was better than Trent, but I could be wrong. I think it was more that Yeldon burst onto the seen and started so well early last year that people really took notice of him. Once his body of work became larger though, the real player emerges and that luster wore off. Also, up until last night Yeldon had a way of performing well in prime time or highly viewed games. I think for the more casual fans that maybe only see those games he looks better than he really is.
EBF
Footballguy
Got bored and compiled some track results for some current and past NCAA prospects. These are just the player's personal best according to the all-athletics.com database. Some of these times were run in high school and some were run in college, so keep in mind that these players might have been at different stages of their development when they put up these numbers. For example, Reggie Bush did not run track as a senior. Thomas Tyner was injured during his junior track season and did not run as a senior. Others like Brandin Cooks and De'Anthony Thomas continued to run even in college.
100m (seconds)
QB Usain Bolt, Jamaica (2008) - 9.58
RB Jamaal Charles, Texas (2006) - 10.13* (10.23 best wind-legal)
RB Keith Marshall, Georgia (2011) - 10.20
RB CJ Spiller, Clemson (2009) - 10.22* (10.29 best wind-legal)
RB Khalfani Muhammad, Cal (2012) - 10.22* (10.33 best wind-legal)
RB Jahvid Best, Cal (2007) - 10.31* (10.36 best wind-legal)
RB De'Anthony Thomas, Oregon (2013) - 10.31* (10.61 best wind-legal)
RB Adrian Peterson, Oklahoma (2003) - 10.33* (10.56 best wind-legal)
RB Thomas Tyner, Oregon (2011) - 10.35
RB Reggie Bush, USC (2002) - 10.42
WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson (2011) - 10.52
WR Cordarrelle Patterson, Tennessee (2012) - 10.54
WR Andre Johnson, Miami (2002) - 10.59
RB Byron Marshall, Oregon (2012) - 10.61
RB Shane Vereen, Cal (2009) - 10.66* (10.74 best wind-legal)
RB Karlos Williams, Florida State (2011) - 10.70
RB Todd Gurley, Georgia (2011) - 10.70
WR Brandin Cooks, Oregon State (2012) - 10.72
WR Marqise Lee, USC (2011) - 10.74*
RB Maurice (Jones) Drew, UCLA (2002) - 10.80
RB Lache Seastrunk, Baylor (2010) - 10.81
WR Santana Moss, Miami (1999) - 10.82
WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford (2011) - 10.84
WR Justin Hunter, Tennessee (2012) - 10.86
WR Dorial Green-Beckham, Missouri (2011) - 10.92
RB Shock Linwood, Baylor (2011) 10.98
WR Leonte Carroo, Rutgers (2011) - 11.01
WR Marquez North, Tennessee (2012) - 11.11
RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska (2011) - 11.19
Long Jump (meters)
WR Justin Hunter, Tennessee (2010) - 7.89
WR Marqise Lee, USC (2011) - 7.76*
WR Kendall Wright, Baylor (2007) - 7.33
RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin (2011) - 7.16
WR Cordarrelle Patterson, Tennessee (2012) - 6.82
The fact that the difference in speed between Usain Bolt and Jamaal Charles is roughly equivalent to the difference in speed between Jamaal Charles and Todd Gurley is pretty scary. I guess if you're the fastest man of all-time you're bound to be pretty freakish. Disappointed that a lot of the NFL's top burners (Mike Wallace, Chris Johnson, Darren McFadden) have no apparent track background to help put their speed in context. I suspect Johnson would've been able to do something similar to Charles and Spiller, if not a little faster. In his prime he looked like probably the fastest football player I've ever seen.
I did not realize that Keith Marshall was so fast. Wow. He doesn't really have the juking football style of Jahvid, Reggie, or Charles. Stick them all on a track and it would be a fun race though. Jahvid and Reggie gave up track after high school, so it's likely that neither guy ever hit his peak.
Kind of obvious after his combine, but Justin Hunter is a pretty freaky athlete. Solid speed. Amazing leaper. High jumps over 7'2". Long jumps over 26 feet.
100m (seconds)
QB Usain Bolt, Jamaica (2008) - 9.58
RB Jamaal Charles, Texas (2006) - 10.13* (10.23 best wind-legal)
RB Keith Marshall, Georgia (2011) - 10.20
RB CJ Spiller, Clemson (2009) - 10.22* (10.29 best wind-legal)
RB Khalfani Muhammad, Cal (2012) - 10.22* (10.33 best wind-legal)
RB Jahvid Best, Cal (2007) - 10.31* (10.36 best wind-legal)
RB De'Anthony Thomas, Oregon (2013) - 10.31* (10.61 best wind-legal)
RB Adrian Peterson, Oklahoma (2003) - 10.33* (10.56 best wind-legal)
RB Thomas Tyner, Oregon (2011) - 10.35
RB Reggie Bush, USC (2002) - 10.42
WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson (2011) - 10.52
WR Cordarrelle Patterson, Tennessee (2012) - 10.54
WR Andre Johnson, Miami (2002) - 10.59
RB Byron Marshall, Oregon (2012) - 10.61
RB Shane Vereen, Cal (2009) - 10.66* (10.74 best wind-legal)
RB Karlos Williams, Florida State (2011) - 10.70
RB Todd Gurley, Georgia (2011) - 10.70
WR Brandin Cooks, Oregon State (2012) - 10.72
WR Marqise Lee, USC (2011) - 10.74*
RB Maurice (Jones) Drew, UCLA (2002) - 10.80
RB Lache Seastrunk, Baylor (2010) - 10.81
WR Santana Moss, Miami (1999) - 10.82
WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford (2011) - 10.84
WR Justin Hunter, Tennessee (2012) - 10.86
WR Dorial Green-Beckham, Missouri (2011) - 10.92
RB Shock Linwood, Baylor (2011) 10.98
WR Leonte Carroo, Rutgers (2011) - 11.01
WR Marquez North, Tennessee (2012) - 11.11
RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska (2011) - 11.19
Long Jump (meters)
WR Justin Hunter, Tennessee (2010) - 7.89
WR Marqise Lee, USC (2011) - 7.76*
WR Kendall Wright, Baylor (2007) - 7.33
RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin (2011) - 7.16
WR Cordarrelle Patterson, Tennessee (2012) - 6.82
The fact that the difference in speed between Usain Bolt and Jamaal Charles is roughly equivalent to the difference in speed between Jamaal Charles and Todd Gurley is pretty scary. I guess if you're the fastest man of all-time you're bound to be pretty freakish. Disappointed that a lot of the NFL's top burners (Mike Wallace, Chris Johnson, Darren McFadden) have no apparent track background to help put their speed in context. I suspect Johnson would've been able to do something similar to Charles and Spiller, if not a little faster. In his prime he looked like probably the fastest football player I've ever seen.
I did not realize that Keith Marshall was so fast. Wow. He doesn't really have the juking football style of Jahvid, Reggie, or Charles. Stick them all on a track and it would be a fun race though. Jahvid and Reggie gave up track after high school, so it's likely that neither guy ever hit his peak.
Kind of obvious after his combine, but Justin Hunter is a pretty freaky athlete. Solid speed. Amazing leaper. High jumps over 7'2". Long jumps over 26 feet.
EBF
Footballguy
Tampa Bay RB Jeff Demps was on the Olympic team and has been clocked at a wind-aided 9.96 in the 100m. That's gotta be the fastest time for any NFL veteran Not much of a football player, but a heavy favorite in a flat sprint. Since strength is such an important part of football, the guys with freaky size/speed combinations are probably more impressive than the mites like Jacoby Ford and Demps who offer speed, but not much else.
Looking at my list there are a few who stand out from that perspective:
Adrian Peterson - 10.33 100m PR, weighed 217 pounds at the combine
Andre Johnson - 10.59 100m, weighed 230 pounds at the combine
Cordarrelle Patterson - 10.54 100m, weighed 216 pounds at the combine
Todd Gurley - 10.70 100m, listed weight of 232 pounds
Thomas Tyner - 10.35 100m, listed weight of 201 pounds
What makes Tyner's case interesting is that his PR is from his sophomore year of high school. He probably could have cranked out a faster time if he had committed to the sport as an upperclassmen, much less a collegiate. I don't know if he plans to run track at Oregon or not. Either way, I think he's heavier than his listed weight. The announcers have said he weighs 210. He looks like he could carry 220 in another year or two pretty easily.
I'm more intrigued by Gurley knowing that he's got such rare speed. Knowing that Karlos Williams averaged 8.2 YPC in garbage time for Florida State at 6'1" 223 with a PR of 10.70 in the 100 makes me curious to see what he might do with an expanded role. He's not really my type of runner from a style standpoint. Too lean and upright, but obviously a dynamic athlete. Being really big and really fast is usually a pretty good recipe for success in football.
Looking at my list there are a few who stand out from that perspective:
Adrian Peterson - 10.33 100m PR, weighed 217 pounds at the combine
Andre Johnson - 10.59 100m, weighed 230 pounds at the combine
Cordarrelle Patterson - 10.54 100m, weighed 216 pounds at the combine
Todd Gurley - 10.70 100m, listed weight of 232 pounds
Thomas Tyner - 10.35 100m, listed weight of 201 pounds
What makes Tyner's case interesting is that his PR is from his sophomore year of high school. He probably could have cranked out a faster time if he had committed to the sport as an upperclassmen, much less a collegiate. I don't know if he plans to run track at Oregon or not. Either way, I think he's heavier than his listed weight. The announcers have said he weighs 210. He looks like he could carry 220 in another year or two pretty easily.
I'm more intrigued by Gurley knowing that he's got such rare speed. Knowing that Karlos Williams averaged 8.2 YPC in garbage time for Florida State at 6'1" 223 with a PR of 10.70 in the 100 makes me curious to see what he might do with an expanded role. He's not really my type of runner from a style standpoint. Too lean and upright, but obviously a dynamic athlete. Being really big and really fast is usually a pretty good recipe for success in football.
Xue
Footballguy
Some guys get faster and bigger once they reach the NFL.
Ray Rice only ran a 4.59 Forty @ 188 lbs in HS: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/event-11;_ylt=AptM2cN08uInrDmSppZBH0FHPZB4?prospect_id=25332
I would imagine most of these HS figures were run at weights at least 10 lbs lighter than their final college season. A few of them probably 15-20 lbs lighter.
Ray Rice only ran a 4.59 Forty @ 188 lbs in HS: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/event-11;_ylt=AptM2cN08uInrDmSppZBH0FHPZB4?prospect_id=25332
I would imagine most of these HS figures were run at weights at least 10 lbs lighter than their final college season. A few of them probably 15-20 lbs lighter.
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EBF
Footballguy
It would be more useful to have a list that compared players at the same stage of their development (i.e. what they were running in the 100m as high school seniors). As it is now, the guys who continued running in college like DAT and Cooks are going to look faster than they should relative to the guys who stopped in high school like Bush and Peterson. For example, DAT's lifetime PR of a wind-aided 10.31 is faster than Reggie's career best of 10.42, but DAT ran that time in college whereas Reggie ran that time as a high school junior. At the same stage of his development, DAT "only" ran a 10.57. So there's an argument that Reggie has more innate speed.
Thomas Tyner vs. Khalfani Muhammad is another good one. Muhammad has the faster peak time, but Tyner's PR is from his sophomore year. As a sophomore, Muhammad ran 10.67 in the state finals. The next year as a junior he ran a 10.52 in the state finals. A year later as a senior, he clocked a 10.33 in the same event. If you assume that Tyner would've improved as much as Muhammad did over the same time span, he would've become a 10 flat runner. But of course you can't make that assumption because maybe Tyner just peaked earlier, but doesn't actually have more speed.
Part of the reason why it's such a minefield drafting high school players is that you don't know which guys are going to develop and by how much. Christine Michael was a 5 star prospect out of high school, but he was listed at just 5'11" 195 and looked like a different person compared with the 220 pound monstrosity that showed up at the combine last year. There's no way you could've looked at him at 17-18 and known that he would become what he did. In fact, his Scout.com profile lists size as his biggest negative.
Knowing which of this year's 4-5 star prospects will become legitimate NFL talents would be pretty difficult without knowing which ones are going to flatline in college and which ones are going to keep improving. Two guys with similar talent as 18 year olds could look very different when they're 22 if one of them keeps adding strength/explosiveness while the other is already maxed out. And that probably goes a long way towards explaining how players like DeAngelo Williams, Doug Martin, Ryan Mathews, and LaDainian Tomlinson slip through the cracks of the big regional NCAA powers every recruiting cycle while "top prospects" like Darrell Scott, Demetris Summers, and Malcolm Brown have mediocre-to-terrible college careers.
Thomas Tyner vs. Khalfani Muhammad is another good one. Muhammad has the faster peak time, but Tyner's PR is from his sophomore year. As a sophomore, Muhammad ran 10.67 in the state finals. The next year as a junior he ran a 10.52 in the state finals. A year later as a senior, he clocked a 10.33 in the same event. If you assume that Tyner would've improved as much as Muhammad did over the same time span, he would've become a 10 flat runner. But of course you can't make that assumption because maybe Tyner just peaked earlier, but doesn't actually have more speed.
Part of the reason why it's such a minefield drafting high school players is that you don't know which guys are going to develop and by how much. Christine Michael was a 5 star prospect out of high school, but he was listed at just 5'11" 195 and looked like a different person compared with the 220 pound monstrosity that showed up at the combine last year. There's no way you could've looked at him at 17-18 and known that he would become what he did. In fact, his Scout.com profile lists size as his biggest negative.
Knowing which of this year's 4-5 star prospects will become legitimate NFL talents would be pretty difficult without knowing which ones are going to flatline in college and which ones are going to keep improving. Two guys with similar talent as 18 year olds could look very different when they're 22 if one of them keeps adding strength/explosiveness while the other is already maxed out. And that probably goes a long way towards explaining how players like DeAngelo Williams, Doug Martin, Ryan Mathews, and LaDainian Tomlinson slip through the cracks of the big regional NCAA powers every recruiting cycle while "top prospects" like Darrell Scott, Demetris Summers, and Malcolm Brown have mediocre-to-terrible college careers.
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jurb26
Footballguy
Somewhere in this thread, I'm not sure by who, but it was said that Gurley wasn't explosive enough and didn't have enough speed. This, along with his ridiculous game footage, should put that concern to rest rather easily. That is an insane time for a man that big. Andre's looks better but iirc he put on a decent amount of weight going into the combine, something like 15 pounds. Tyners time as a soph is pretty ridiculous as well. I'm going to have to watch this guy closely the next few years. That is a ton of speed on a decent frame. I'm not sure if he added weight and lost some of that, unlikely.
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Xue
Footballguy
Gurley was only around 205 lbs in HS.
Tyner doesn't look as fast as his 100M time suggests. He should easily be a mid 4.3x guy, but looks closer to 4.40 from what I've seen so far.
EBF
Footballguy
Well speed is one thing and quickness is something else. LeSean McCoy is not super fast, but his change of direction is lightning. Gurley obviously has solid built-up speed, but whether or not he's initially explosive is still in doubt IMO. I think part of the issue with him is that he's a big guy and a long strider, so he doesn't look like he's moving as fast as he really is. Shorter guys with faster turnover often look like they're running faster than taller guys with longer strides.
EBF
Footballguy
Not so sure about that. Tyner is like Gurley in the sense that he has monster stride length, so he doesn't necessarily "look" like he's running as fast as he is. Here's an old clip of him running 10.38 at a high school meet. That's an unreal time for a high school kid, but he never really looks like he's moving that fast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V6CmCQvEPY
He covers a lot of ground on this screen pass in the bowl game against Texas without ever really even getting into his stride. When they cut to the field level view you can get some sense for his speed. On his long TD run against Virginia the defenders look like they're standing still.
If you really want to have a laugh, just dial up his 644 yard game from high school. Yea, the competition is crap, but that's unreal speed on display.
