Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Xue

Dynasty: NON-Draft eligible College prospects

Recommended Posts

Side bar: how hurt is Ty Montgomery? Was curious to see him play...

He walked off the field on his own without crutches after the game. Clearly favoring his knee/ankle. Nothing to add beyond that yet.

Apparently nothing serious.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_24879273/stanford-de-henry-anderson-lb-j-tarpley-remain

Shaw said receiver Ty Montgomery, who injured his left knee in the Rose Bowl, does not need surgery.

Montgomery is expected to be healthy for the first session of spring practice (Feb. 24) but probably won't go full speed until the second session begins in late March.

I don't consider Ty a first round talent or anything crazy like that, but he may be slightly underrated around the nation. Very sturdy frame and quite fast. He ran 10.8 electronic in high school and is rumored to have a 40" vertical. Should be a 2nd-3rd round draft pick when you factor in his skills as a kickoff returner (one of the best in the nation). Purely as a receiver, he's a little more of an enigma. Not the most natural guy. I can't remember him ever coming up with a really difficult grab or circus catch. He's athletic, but not necessarily really sudden or elusive. More of a straight line power/speed guy with the ball in his hands. They mainly use him as a catch-and-run option and as a deep threat. You don't see him working the middle of the field or doing a lot of the savvy/crafty stuff. My hunch is that he'll be a complementary target in the NFL rather than a dominant #1. Clearly gonna be a Sunday player though. Clips here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1_-hnhuM18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld:

Leonard Fournette, the No. 1 recruit in the country, committed to LSU earlier this month.

The 6-foot-1, 226-pounder also considered Alabama and Texas. He officially committed on January 2. "I chose LSU because I felt home there," Fournette said at the time. "I have a great relationship with both coaches, Coach Miles and Coach Frank. ... I was kind of going back and forth, so at the end of the day I prayed on it and I woke up and I felt that LSU was going to be the place for me." Les Miles absolutely needed Fournette's signature, and he got his man. LSU didn't sign a running back in 2013 and recently lost both Jeremy Hill and Alfred Blue early to the NFL. The only thing standing in the way of Fournette starting as a true freshman is Kenny Hilliard.
Source: ESPN.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After deciding that I won't be selecting him in my only devy league (1 round), I'll open up about him: Kelvin Taylor really should be getting more love in this thread. He's built like a man already and is a very instinctive, very natural runner. He showed major flashes this year against top competition, in a pro-style system, with zero help from the passing game. I feel comfortable suggesting that he'll be a no-brainer top 10 devy pick this time next year.

Whether or not he is worth a devy pick this year depends on league specs. Mine has limited roster spots, so the two year wait was too damning. But in leagues with bigger roster spots, or more than 1 devy round - he should be on your radar and will be early next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was one of the guys I liked in that high school class long with Tyner and Greg Bryant (Notre Dame). I found his highlights kind of underwhelming last year though. :shrug: Doesn't seem like he got his dad's burst. Certainly a name that warrants monitoring based on his recruiting profile and bloodlines though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was one of the guys I liked in that high school class long with Tyner and Greg Bryant (Notre Dame). I found his highlights kind of underwhelming last year though. :shrug: Doesn't seem like he got his dad's burst. Certainly a name that warrants monitoring based on his recruiting profile and bloodlines though.

I agree here, I've thought about kelvin Taylor as a devy pick, but I don't see an upside. Little burst and he was just bigger than everyone in hs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was one of the guys I liked in that high school class long with Tyner and Greg Bryant (Notre Dame). I found his highlights kind of underwhelming last year though. :shrug: Doesn't seem like he got his dad's burst. Certainly a name that warrants monitoring based on his recruiting profile and bloodlines though.

I agree here, I've thought about kelvin Taylor as a devy pick, but I don't see an upside. Little burst and he was just bigger than everyone in hs.

I thought he showed plenty of burst, personally, for his size and balance. In the open field, he kind of reminds me of Arian Foster.

For me, his production was disappointing, but not his performance, given the circumstances. His YPC (4.6) looks a lot better next to the back he traded series with (Brown: 3.6).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld:

Former Alabama QB Luke Del Rio has transferred to Oregon State.

Del Rio will be forced to sit out next season. "We are very excited that Luke has chosen to join the Oregon State Football program," head coach Mike Riley said in a statement. "He is an exceptional young man and will be a great representative of Beaver Nation on and off the field." Del Rio was ranked the No. 28 pro-style quarterback in the country in the 2013 recruiting class. He'll have three years of remaining eligibility when he's allowed to begin playing in 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that all of the 2014 guys have declared, here's a basic watch list for 2015-2017 roughly arranged by how highly I rate the players. There are some names missing and I obviously haven't gone very deep at QB because it's really rare that I'll spend a dev pick at that position.

Jameis Winston, Florida State

Christian Hackenberg, Penn State
Marcus Mariota, Oregon


Todd Gurley, Georgia
Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin

Thomas Tyner, Oregon
TJ Yeldon, Alabama
Mike Davis, South Carolina
Alex Collins, Arkansas
Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska
Shock Linwood, Baylor
Karlos Williams, Florida State
Derrick Henry, Alabama

Michael Dyer, Louisville
Byron Marshall, Oregon
Keith Marshall, Georgia
Duke Johnson, Miami
Trey Williams, Texas A&M
Jay Ajayi, Boise State

Johnathan Gray, Texas
Khalfani Muhammad, Cal
Altee Tenpenny, Alabama

Greg Bryant, Notre Dame

Kenyan Drake, Alabama

Javorious Allen, USC

Jerron Seymour, Vanderbilt

Corey Clement, Wisconsin
Kevin Parks, Virginia

Terrance Magee, LSU
Jonathan Williams, Arkansas
Tre Madden, USC

Kelvin Taylor, Florida
David Cobb, Minnesota
Tevin Coleman, Indiana

Tra Carson, Texas A&M

Cameron Artis-Payne, Auburn
Stephen Houston, Indiana
Kareem Hunt, Toledo

Malcom Brown, Texas

Josh Robinson, Mississippi State

Jela Duncan, Duke

Shaun Wick, Wyoming

Zaire Williams, Temple


Stefon Diggs, Maryland

Stacy Coley, Miami

Ty Montgomery, Stanford
Antwan Goodley, Baylor
Amari Cooper, Alabama
Marquez North, Tennessee
Laquon Treadwell, Mississippi

Damore'ea Stringfellow, Washington

Dorial Green-Beckham, Missouri
Ricky Seals-Jones, Texas A&M
Deontay Greenberry, Houston
Sammie Coates, Auburn

Jaelen Strong, Arizona State
Rashad Greene, Florida State
DeVante Parker, Louisville

Tyler Boyd, Pittsburgh

Leonte Carroo, Rutgers
Nelson Agholor, USC

Titus Davis, Central Michigan

Robbie Rhodes, Baylor
Kenny Bell, Nebraska

DeAndrew White, Alabama

Sean Price, Appalachian State

Trey Griffey, Arizona
Quenton Bundrage, Iowa State
Darren Waller, Georgia Tech
Corey Davis, Western Michigan
Justin Hardy, East Carolina
Breshad Perriman, UCF

Shane Williams-Rhodes, Boise State


Devin Funchess, Michigan
Hunter Henry, Arkansas
OJ Howard, Alabama
Kivon Cartwright, Colorado State

Thomas Duarte, UCLA
Wes Saxton, South Alabama
Tyreese Russell, Eastern Michigan
Tyler Kroft, Rutgers

Devon Cajuste, Stanford
Braxton Deaver, Duke

Notable High Schoolers:

RB Leonard Fournette

RB Sony Michel

RB Nick Chubb

RB Joe Mixon

RB Racean Thomas

WR Speedy Noil

WR Johnnie Dixon

What stands out to me right now is the very poor quality of the WR pool. There isn't a single WR out there who looks like an obvious first round pick to me at this time. Obviously names will emerge as the next few drafts approach, but if I were hoping to pull an elite WR out of the college ranks I would not be encouraged by the options at my disposal. On the other hand, there are some nice prospects at RB and TE.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld:

Former Alabama QB Luke Del Rio has transferred to Oregon State.

Del Rio will be forced to sit out next season. "We are very excited that Luke has chosen to join the Oregon State Football program," head coach Mike Riley said in a statement. "He is an exceptional young man and will be a great representative of Beaver Nation on and off the field." Del Rio was ranked the No. 28 pro-style quarterback in the country in the 2013 recruiting class. He'll have three years of remaining eligibility when he's allowed to begin playing in 2015.

Amusing, Zach Kline decided to transfer from Cal to OSU because he didn't want to sit behind Jared Goff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice post EBF.

I generally agree with your point about the lack of obvious stud WR's, but do have some disagreements.

For instance, I think there's at least as good a chance that Diggs goes in round 1 as there is that Gordon does. And I like Gordon a lot. But I could easily see Diggs being looked at similarly to Watkins next year, in terms of being just about as good as you can get without being the prototypical 6'2" or taller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld:

Former Alabama QB Luke Del Rio has transferred to Oregon State.

Del Rio will be forced to sit out next season. "We are very excited that Luke has chosen to join the Oregon State Football program," head coach Mike Riley said in a statement. "He is an exceptional young man and will be a great representative of Beaver Nation on and off the field." Del Rio was ranked the No. 28 pro-style quarterback in the country in the 2013 recruiting class. He'll have three years of remaining eligibility when he's allowed to begin playing in 2015.

Amusing, Zach Kline decided to transfer from Cal to OSU because he didn't want to sit behind Jared Goff.

There is QB incest going on FSU QB transferring to Alabama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice post EBF.

I generally agree with your point about the lack of obvious stud WR's, but do have some disagreements.

For instance, I think there's at least as good a chance that Diggs goes in round 1 as there is that Gordon does. And I like Gordon a lot. But I could easily see Diggs being looked at similarly to Watkins next year, in terms of being just about as good as you can get without being the prototypical 6'2" or taller.

Diggs has a lot of ability, but he lacks the size to project as an obvious high end #1 WR. If he goes first round it will probably be late 1st. Watkins was always projected as a first round pick. As of right now Draft Scout has Diggs as the #8 WR for 2016. I don't expect him to go that low. On the other hand, it speaks towards the fact that he isn't viewed as a consensus elite prospect right now.

Overall, I just see more guys at RB who look like they could be plug-and-play top 15 FF players at their position. There just aren't a lot of WRs in the NCAA right now who have special production and rare physical tools. Maybe somebody like Stringfellow, Seals-Jones, Treadwell, North, or Coley will look like that in another year. At this exact moment in time I can't say I'd feel very good about investing a top 5 devy pick in any of those players though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diggs is everything we think Marqise Lee is and better. Much more effort going after the ball, especially on contested catches downfield.

Can see him in the late 1st.

The incoming HS class has some really good RBs. There's at least 10 guys worth taking, depending on how deep your league is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotoworld:

Former Alabama QB Luke Del Rio has transferred to Oregon State.

Del Rio will be forced to sit out next season. "We are very excited that Luke has chosen to join the Oregon State Football program," head coach Mike Riley said in a statement. "He is an exceptional young man and will be a great representative of Beaver Nation on and off the field." Del Rio was ranked the No. 28 pro-style quarterback in the country in the 2013 recruiting class. He'll have three years of remaining eligibility when he's allowed to begin playing in 2015.

Source: Mike Riley on Twitter

Amusing, Zach Kline decided to transfer from Cal to OSU because he didn't want to sit behind Jared Goff.

There is QB incest going on FSU QB transferring to Alabama

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10333856/sources-qb-jacob-coker-expected-enroll-alabama-crimson-tide-being-released-scholarship-florida-state-seminoles

A lot of hype for a back up...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/bruce-feldman/24402411/the-rise-of-jacob-coker

"I've never had anybody with his size who throws it as well as he does," said FSU QB coach Randy Sanders who's been around big-time programs since his days as a Tennessee player in the mid-80s with the Vols star-crossed quarterback Tony Robinson. "Jake has a really quick release with tremendous arm strength. Rarely does it not spiral or not go where he wants it to go."

Asked if Coker's arm is even better than Winston, the resident Heisman winner, Sanders paused for a few breaths before saying, "Coker's arm is kind of at a different level. Jameis has a very special arm, and this isn't any knock against Jameis, but Jake's probably the best I've seen in 25 years at throwing it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice list EBF, thanks for that.

Can't say I'm too familiar with many of those names, but one thing that sticks out to me is that I think Tevin Coleman is wayyyy too low. Coleman is Melvin Gordon with receiving ability and a bit more wiggle imo, Coleman even has the same silly 7+ YPC that Gordon has. NFLdraftscout also seems to be sleeping on him ranking him 31st at RB for his draft class, but I expect him to shoot up draft boards next year, and Gordon to probably drop some.

And I realize it's pretty impressive that Christian Hackenberg started a full season in a big time conference as a true freshman, but at the end of the day his numbers were pretty mediocre, certainly not impressive enough that I think him being an early round pick in the NFL is an inevitability.

Edited by Time Kibitzer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jaelen Strong, Arizona State

What's not to like? You seem to have him pretty low, especially as he'll be declaring next year.

Nice stats. Pretty good height and quickness. Overall though, he just doesn't pop off the screen for me in the way that I'd hope an elite prospect would. I don't see what makes him obviously better than guys like Derek Hagan and Gerell Robinson who had decent talent and great stats at ASU, but never amounted to anything in the NFL. I will be keeping tabs on Strong next season to see what he looks like, but drafting today I'm not super high on him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice list EBF, thanks for that.

Can't say I'm too familiar with many of those names, but one thing that sticks out to me is that I think Tevin Coleman is wayyyy too low. Coleman is Melvin Gordon with receiving ability and a bit more wiggle imo, Coleman even has the same silly 7+ YPC that Gordon has. NFLdraftscout also seems to be sleeping on him ranking him 31st at RB for his draft class, but I expect him to shoot up draft boards next year, and Gordon to probably drop some.

And I realize it's pretty impressive that Christian Hackenberg started a full season in a big time conference as a true freshman, but at the end of the day his numbers were pretty mediocre, certainly not impressive enough that I think him being an early round pick in the NFL is an inevitability.

I've only seen highlights of Coleman because I don't watch Indiana games and nobody has put up any of his individual game cuts on YouTube yet. From what I can see, he isn't really the style of back that I prefer. If you look at my list you'll notice that I tend not to be super super high on the long-legged upright guys like Karlos Williams, Kenyan Drake, and Coleman. Granted, Tyner and Gordon sort of fit that mold as well, but in general I have a pretty strong preference for more compact powerful runners with good feet and quickness. There are exceptions, but that seems to be the type that dominates in the NFL.

With Hackenberg, I think it's a projection based on his recruiting profile, his physical talent, and his early performance. Everybody is assuming that he'll take a big step forward this year. I think that's a reasonably safe assumption given how hard it usually is for a true freshman to make the jump to big time NCAA football. Guys like Winston, Manziel, and Luck all had a year on the sidelines. With a year under his belt, I expect a more impressive Hackenberg in 2014. If he's the same guy that he was in 2013, he won't justify a high dev pick. Even now I would only take him after all the good RB/WR/TE had been picked over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course you make an exception for Tyner.

Williams and Drake don't run any more upright than Tyner, yet certainly cut much better. Coleman, however, does run upright. Reminds me more of Demarco Murray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drake has a terrible body for a RB. This is not the guy you want taking 300 hits per season. Very bad frame for a RB.

I'm a lot more intrigued by Williams since he's thicker and more explosive, but yes he does run upright. He has a high-cut, long-legged build for a back. You can see in his highlights how high his center of gravity is. That's not a quality you see in a lot of top pro backs.

We will see what happens with Tyner. I think from an efficient movement standpoint, there are better backs in college football. Part of what gives him his insane speed (his long legs and long strides) is what contributes to his biggest weakness (short area quickness/elusiveness). I watched most of his carries this season and was not very impressed with his ability to make people miss in space. However, he has some special qualities. His combination of elite speed and sticky hands makes him a very dangerous weapon as a route runner. His size/speed ratio will be one of the best in any level of football by the time he's done with college. Despite his long legs, he also has very strong legs with knotted calves and thick thighs. He's a great one cut north-south runner. He's also the youngest of these guys and thus probably the least developed. Part of his ranking is a projection based on what he might look like with a year of growth/maturity and more time in a college weight program. Based on his high school background, his early NCAA production, and his rare qualities I think he has to be considered a top 3 dev RB in his class at this juncture and at least a top 10 overall all-class RB prospect.

Edited by EBF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drake has a terrible body for a RB. This is not the guy you want taking 300 hits per season. Very bad frame for a RB.

I'm a lot more intrigued by Williams since he's thicker and more explosive, but yes he does run upright. He has a high-cut, long-legged build for a back. You can see in his highlights how high his center of gravity is. That's not a quality you see in a lot of top pro backs.

We will see what happens with Tyner. I think from an efficient movement standpoint, there are better backs in college football. Part of what gives him his insane speed (his long legs and long strides) is what contributes to his biggest weakness (short area quickness/elusiveness). I watched most of his carries this season and was not very impressed with his ability to make people miss in space. However, he has some special qualities. His combination of elite speed and sticky hands makes him a very dangerous weapon as a route runner. His size/speed ratio will be one of the best in any level of football by the time he's done with college. Despite his long legs, he also has very strong legs with knotted calves and thick thighs. He's a great one cut north-south runner. He's also the youngest of these guys and thus probably the least developed. Part of his ranking is a projection based on what he might look like with a year of growth/maturity and more time in a college weight program. Based on his high school background, his early NCAA production, and his rare qualities I think he has to be considered a top 3 dev RB in his class at this juncture and at least a top 10 overall all-class RB prospect.

Drake's frame is no different from LeSean McCoy and Jamaal Charles. You could have said the same things about them in college.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diggs is everything we think Marqise Lee is and better. Much more effort going after the ball, especially on contested catches downfield.

Can see him in the late 1st.

Yeah, I don't get the Cobb comparisons I've seen. To me Diggs looks bigger (I believe the 6'0 listing) and better put together as well. He's also much more of a hands catcher.

I've seen somebody make a comment about Diggs being a 6'0 version of Dez Bryant (maybe EBF) and I can totally see that comparison.

Edited by ConnSKINS26

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drake has a terrible body for a RB. This is not the guy you want taking 300 hits per season. Very bad frame for a RB.

Drake's frame is no different from LeSean McCoy and Jamaal Charles. You could have said the same things about them in college.

McCoy is a shade over 5'10". Charles is 5'11". Drake is listed at 6'1".

McCoy is not a huge guy, but he has good strength in his thighs and his game is all about his insane short area quickness. I was posting on these boards when McCoy was in college and generally saw some potential there. Such as in this post and this post. Drake doesn't have anywhere near McCoy's elusiveness and is built more stretched out and upright anyway. His listed height/weight of 6'1" 201 would be good for an off-the-charts-low BMI of 26.6. He is basically built like a finesse WR.

Charles is a player that I never quite nailed my evaluations of. Certainly his lack of size was something that had me worried about his workhorse potential and durability. The one thing I can see with the benefit of hindsight (and something that I've learned in part by watching guys like Chris Johnson and Charles thrive) is that ELITE gifts in terms of speed/quickness/elusiveness can go a long way towards offsetting deficits in size and power.

I don't see Drake as having the elite movement skills of any of these prospects. He's got nice agility and he's a fluid runner for his size, but at the end of the day he's probably just too lean in the lower body to become a long term NFL starter despite his talent. He's like a cross between Cierre Wood and Glen Coffee. Nothing to get super excited about.

Edited by EBF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diggs is everything we think Marqise Lee is and better. Much more effort going after the ball, especially on contested catches downfield.

Can see him in the late 1st.

Yeah, I don't get the Cobb comparisons I've seen. To me Diggs looks bigger (I believe the 6'0 listing) and better put together as well. He's also much more of a hands catcher.

I've seen somebody make a comment about Diggs being a 6'0 version of Des Bryant (maybe EBF) and I can totally see that comparison.

Cobb is more compact. If anything, Diggs (though perhaps an inch taller) might be thinner. Neither one has the type of physique where you want them getting whacked over the middle several times a game and incidentally both guys have already suffered serious lower body injuries.

I think what I said is basically that Diggs is like what Dez Bryant would look like if he shrunk a couple inches and lost 25 pounds. But size and strength are a lot of what makes Dez a Pro Bowler. Take those things away and he wouldn't be as successful. Diggs has great fluidity, he's explosive, he's a natural football player, and he has great hands. I like him, but as I've mentioned countless times the lack of prototypical size is something that will raise some legitimate ??? with him.

As far as Diggs vs. Lee goes, Diggs has better hands, but Lee strikes me as being bigger and more rugged. I know their listed dimensions are identical on ESPN, but that's my take from watching quite a lot of both players. I'm curious to see what Lee looks like at the combine because he seems to play a little bit stronger than you'd think just looking at the height/weight. The height/weight is not that far off AJ Jenkins, yet he just seems much more solid and tougher to push around.

Edited by EBF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We will see what happens with Tyner. I think from an efficient movement standpoint, there are better backs in college football. Part of what gives him his insane speed (his long legs and long strides) is what contributes to his biggest weakness (short area quickness/elusiveness). I watched most of his carries this season and was not very impressed with his ability to make people miss in space. However, he has some special qualities. His combination of elite speed and sticky hands makes him a very dangerous weapon as a route runner. His size/speed ratio will be one of the best in any level of football by the time he's done with college. Despite his long legs, he also has very strong legs with knotted calves and thick thighs. He's a great one cut north-south runner. He's also the youngest of these guys and thus probably the least developed. Part of his ranking is a projection based on what he might look like with a year of growth/maturity and more time in a college weight program.

On that note, Oregon bumped up Tyner's listed weight to 211 on their official site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drake has a terrible body for a RB. This is not the guy you want taking 300 hits per season. Very bad frame for a RB.

Drake's frame is no different from LeSean McCoy and Jamaal Charles. You could have said the same things about them in college.

McCoy is a shade over 5'10". Charles is 5'11". Drake is listed at 6'1".

McCoy is not a huge guy, but he has good strength in his thighs and his game is all about his insane short area quickness. I was posting on these boards when McCoy was in college and generally saw some potential there. Such as in this post and this post. Drake doesn't have anywhere near McCoy's elusiveness and is built more stretched out and upright anyway. His listed height/weight of 6'1" 201 would be good for an off-the-charts-low BMI of 26.6. He is basically built like a finesse WR.

Charles is a player that I never quite nailed my evaluations of. Certainly his lack of size was something that had me worried about his workhorse potential and durability. The one thing I can see with the benefit of hindsight (and something that I've learned in part by watching guys like Chris Johnson and Charles thrive) is that ELITE gifts in terms of speed/quickness/elusiveness can go a long way towards offsetting deficits in size and power.

I don't see Drake as having the elite movement skills of any of these prospects. He's got nice agility and he's a fluid runner for his size, but at the end of the day he's probably just too lean in the lower body to become a long term NFL starter despite his talent. He's like a cross between Cierre Wood and Glen Coffee. Nothing to get super excited about.

You're looking at numbers and not the actual player. Height and weight does equal frame. You have to look at the visuals. McCoy has a short neck. His frame is closer to someone that is 5'11-6'. There are numerous RBs with great BMI who can't play or can't stay healthy. Great BMI is like a chiseled physique: just something nice to have and look at.

It's very possible Drake can put on weight once he gets into the NFL. As far as I know, he has stated he wants to be at 210.

Drake runs with great forward lean and pad level just like McCoy. I'm not even sure if you watch Alabama or just have a stereotypical view of Drake. He's more elusive than Yeldon and cuts a lot harder.

Coffee is a horrible comparison. He was stiff, much more upright, and tried to run over guys. Cierre Wood is actualy a great comp. Wood and Drake are the closest things to McCoy I've seen. Wood looked great in the pre-season for the Texans. You make it sound like Wood isn't any good, when in fact he is. Unfortunately, he couldn't stay on with the Texans. Would have given them a reason to let Tate walk.

Edited by Xue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cobb is more compact. If anything, Diggs (though perhaps an inch taller) might be thinner. Neither one has the type of physique where you want them getting whacked over the middle several times a game and incidentally both guys have already suffered serious lower body injuries.

I don't know, Cobb looks like a DB. And this is after being in an NFL weight/strength program, which Diggs hasn't, obviously:

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/randall-cobb.jpg?w=1200&h=796

http://jerseyal.com/GBP/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/randall-cobb.jpeg

Diggs:

http://www.nationalchamps.net/2013/sub/photos/maryland_stefon_diggs.jpg

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/maryland-running-back-stefon-diggs-runs-sidelines-32409552.jpg

They look pretty similar, with Diggs looking just as "compact" (or not) but taller--he does look 6'0 to me which is important. He looks like he has really long arms as well. Like, really long. I also think you can see a definite difference in Diggs already from his freshman pics to his more current ones.

Watkins doesn't look much bigger, and he's not questioned on anything other than his lack of proto-typical height.

http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegefootball/SammyWatkinsFSU.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cobb is more compact. If anything, Diggs (though perhaps an inch taller) might be thinner. Neither one has the type of physique where you want them getting whacked over the middle several times a game and incidentally both guys have already suffered serious lower body injuries.

I don't know, Cobb looks like a DB. And this is after being in an NFL weight/strength program, which Diggs hasn't, obviously:

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/randall-cobb.jpg?w=1200&h=796

http://jerseyal.com/GBP/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/randall-cobb.jpeg

Diggs:

http://www.nationalchamps.net/2013/sub/photos/maryland_stefon_diggs.jpg

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/maryland-running-back-stefon-diggs-runs-sidelines-32409552.jpg

They look pretty similar, with Diggs looking just as "compact" (or not) but taller--he does look 6'0 to me which is important. He looks like he has really long arms as well. Like, really long. I also think you can see a definite difference in Diggs already from his freshman pics to his more current ones.

Watkins doesn't look much bigger, and he's not questioned on anything other than his lack of proto-typical height.

http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegefootball/SammyWatkinsFSU.jpg

I have the guy rated pretty high above. Obviously I see some merit there. Doesn't mean he's perfect.

I don't think he's a big guy and I don't think he plays with much strength or physicality.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're looking at numbers and not the actual player. Height and weight does equal frame. You have to look at the visuals. McCoy has a short neck. His frame is closer to someone that is 5'11-6'. There are numerous RBs with great BMI who can't play or can't stay healthy. Great BMI is like a chiseled physique: just something nice to have and look at.

Didn't I just post a picture of him a few pages up? He is a very skinny back by any measure. The first time I saw him run, I actually thought he was a WR. And that makes sense because he has the height/weight of a WR and that's what he looks like from a physique standpoint:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Danielle%2BHunter%2BKenyan%2BDrake%2BLSU%2Bv%2BAlabama%2BPscRflHb6rGl.jpg

Coffee is a horrible comparison. He was stiff, much more upright, and tried to run over guys. Cierre Wood is actualy a great comp. Wood and Drake are the closest things to McCoy I've seen. Wood looked great in the pre-season for the Texans. You make it sound like Wood isn't any good, when in fact he is. Unfortunately, he couldn't stay on with the Texans. Would have given them a reason to let Tate walk.

If the closest parallel for him is a UDFA then maybe that's a sign that he isn't a great prospect.

I think he has some talent. He wouldn't be getting carries in that Alabama backfield if he didn't have some talent. But to compare him to guys like McCoy and Charles seems hugely optimistic. He's much more likely to follow the path of Wood or maybe Norwood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're looking at numbers and not the actual player. Height and weight does equal frame. You have to look at the visuals. McCoy has a short neck. His frame is closer to someone that is 5'11-6'. There are numerous RBs with great BMI who can't play or can't stay healthy. Great BMI is like a chiseled physique: just something nice to have and look at.

Didn't I just post a picture of him a few pages up? He is a very skinny back by any measure. The first time I saw him run, I actually thought he was a WR. And that makes sense because he has the height/weight of a WR and that's what he looks like from a physique standpoint:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Danielle%2BHunter%2BKenyan%2BDrake%2BLSU%2Bv%2BAlabama%2BPscRflHb6rGl.jpg

Coffee is a horrible comparison. He was stiff, much more upright, and tried to run over guys. Cierre Wood is actualy a great comp. Wood and Drake are the closest things to McCoy I've seen. Wood looked great in the pre-season for the Texans. You make it sound like Wood isn't any good, when in fact he is. Unfortunately, he couldn't stay on with the Texans. Would have given them a reason to let Tate walk.

If the closest parallel for him is a UDFA then maybe that's a sign that he isn't a great prospect.

I think he has some talent. He wouldn't be getting carries in that Alabama backfield if he didn't have some talent. But to compare him to guys like McCoy and Charles seems hugely optimistic. He's much more likely to follow the path of Wood or maybe Norwood.

I'm not comparing him to a player that went undrafted. I'm comparing him to a player who was very talented in college and in the NFL pre-season.

And Dyer could easily go undrafted as well and do nothing in the NFL, yet you are still high on him. Being a UDFA doesn't mean you're not talented. If Alfred Morris played for a BCS conference he'd easily been a 2nd rounder. Mark Ingram was so overrated, he'd be lucky to get drafted if he didn't play for Alabama.

The UDFA schtick has been beaten to death. I don't care where a guy gets drafted. Talent is talent.

Edited by Xue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not comparing him to a player that went undrafted. I'm comparing him to a player who was very talented in college and in the NFL pre-season.

And Dyer could easily go undrafted as well and do nothing in the NFL, yet you are still high on him. Being a UDFA doesn't mean you're not talented. If Alfred Morris played for a BCS conference he'd easily been a 2nd rounder. Mark Ingram was so overrated, he'd be lucky to get drafted if he didn't play for Alabama.

The UDFA schtick has been beaten to death. I don't care where a guy gets drafted. Talent is talent.

Everyone has their pet favorites. If you're high on Drake, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. I don't think you should expect everyone to share that view, just like I wouldn't expect everyone to be high on Dyer at this point. I should probably drop Dyer down below the Marshalls, but in general once you get past the top 7-8 players you're mostly just picking favorites from different flavors of unconvincing mediocrity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EBF what do you think of Damien Harris...just decommitted from UMich...

I have second pick in august... Right now it's Harris or Winston or Racean Thomas.... Mike Davis is first RB on the list that would be available...guessing he's first to go...unless Winston is....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snoop Dogg's son transfers to Vegas prep powerhouse

By Mike Huguenin

College Football 24/7 writer

Excerpt:

Cordell Broadus, one of the nation's top 200 juniors and the son of rapper Snoop Dogg, is changing high schools and now is enrolled at powerhouse Las Vegas Bishop Gorman.

Broadus (6-foot-3, 186 pounds) is considered one of the top 20 wide receivers nationally in the 2015 recruiting class. He has been offered scholarships by the likes of Baylor, Duke, Florida State, Notre Dame, UCLA and USC. He starred for the past two seasons at Diamond Bar High in suburban Los Angeles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EBF what do you think of Damien Harris...just decommitted from UMich...

I have second pick in august... Right now it's Harris or Winston or Racean Thomas.... Mike Davis is first RB on the list that would be available...guessing he's first to go...unless Winston is....

I haven't looked at the 2015 class at all yet. It's so far out and none of those guys are actually eligible in my leagues.

I did just take a look at some of his YouTube highlights. He looks promising, but it would be a big leap of faith to say he's going to be an NFL player. Very, very hard to make that call when you're looking at a 16-17 year old high school player. As far as the 2014 guys go, I was having a tough time picking a favorite from Michel/Fournette/Chubb/Thomas/Mixon. I think Fournette is a somewhat safe bet to become a decent pro prospect (though maybe not a great one). I liked Michel's quickness and agility, but question if he has enough pure size/speed/explosiveness.

I think you might be better off going with someone has demonstrated some success at the NCAA level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EBF what do you think of Damien Harris...just decommitted from UMich...

I have second pick in august... Right now it's Harris or Winston or Racean Thomas.... Mike Davis is first RB on the list that would be available...guessing he's first to go...unless Winston is....

I haven't looked at the 2015 class at all yet. It's so far out and none of those guys are actually eligible in my leagues.

I did just take a look at some of his YouTube highlights. He looks promising, but it would be a big leap of faith to say he's going to be an NFL player. Very, very hard to make that call when you're looking at a 16-17 year old high school player. As far as the 2014 guys go, I was having a tough time picking a favorite from Michel/Fournette/Chubb/Thomas/Mixon. I think Fournette is a somewhat safe bet to become a decent pro prospect (though maybe not a great one). I liked Michel's quickness and agility, but question if he has enough pure size/speed/explosiveness.

I think you might be better off going with someone has demonstrated some success at the NCAA level.

Bo Scarborough? He's an athlete, but mostly a RB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scarbrough is my top RB for the 2014 recruiting class. He was playing slot WR in the Under Armour game. That's a testament to his pure athletic ability.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scarbrough is my top RB for the 2014 recruiting class. He was playing slot WR in the Under Armour game. That's a testament to his pure athletic ability.

Do you think he'll RS next year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EBF what do you think of Damien Harris...just decommitted from UMich...

I have second pick in august... Right now it's Harris or Winston or Racean Thomas.... Mike Davis is first RB on the list that would be available...guessing he's first to go...unless Winston is....

I'm just starting to look at the class of '15. Was excited to see that Harris goes to school in my area. Looking forward to checking out a couple of games next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scarbrough is my top RB for the 2014 recruiting class. He was playing slot WR in the Under Armour game. That's a testament to his pure athletic ability.

Do you think he'll RS next year?

Not if he's not injured. I expect him to play special teams at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not comparing him to a player that went undrafted. I'm comparing him to a player who was very talented in college and in the NFL pre-season.

And Dyer could easily go undrafted as well and do nothing in the NFL, yet you are still high on him. Being a UDFA doesn't mean you're not talented. If Alfred Morris played for a BCS conference he'd easily been a 2nd rounder. Mark Ingram was so overrated, he'd be lucky to get drafted if he didn't play for Alabama.

The UDFA schtick has been beaten to death. I don't care where a guy gets drafted. Talent is talent.

Everyone has their pet favorites. If you're high on Drake, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. I don't think you should expect everyone to share that view, just like I wouldn't expect everyone to be high on Dyer at this point. I should probably drop Dyer down below the Marshalls, but in general once you get past the top 7-8 players you're mostly just picking favorites from different flavors of unconvincing mediocrity.

Melvin Gordon is listed at 6'1" and quoted to have played at 205 last season. His BMI comes out to 27.1. I wonder where that ranks on your BMI list. But of course after taking a look at visuals of Gordon, we can see that he isn't "skinny". Yet you want to base part of your argument against Drake on BMI. Amari Cooper is the same height and a few pounds heavier than Drake. Does Cooper having a slightly better BMI really mean anything if Drake can actually play RB? It's not like he's a speed demon making plays in space and on the edge. He's running the same plays that Yeldon and Henry do and he's just as good at breaking tackles as Yeldon. I'll take the RB with a worse BMI but better actual RB skills over the one that has a great build but less talent.

I've been saying for along time that Drake is just as talented if not better than Yeldon. This is obvious when watching the footage. I have Yeldon ranked where you have Javorius Allen, who is basically a better version of him. I expect Allen to be ridden into the ground by Sarkisian (just like he did to Sankey) and won't be surprised to see him lead the PAC12 in rushing next year.

The Yeldon/Drake debate will be moot once Bo Scarbrough gets there anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon actually is pretty skinny and I'm on record saying that I have some minor concerns about facets of his game. He's not a power runner, he's not really a juker either, and a lot of his big plays came on straight sprints where he didn't really have to earn his yards. Where I think there's a difference between him and Drake is that Gordon appears to possess rare speed to help compensate for his lack of power. So at least you can find a somewhat accurate successful NFL parallel in Jamaal Charles. They look pretty similar and they have a similar game. Maybe Gordon isn't as elusive, but Charles seems like the most frequent comparison for him.

On the other hand, there's not a single successful RB in the NFL who looks like Kenyan Drake. Doesn't mean it's impossible that he could succeed, but in general I always feel more comfortable investing in players who more closely align with established archetypes.


I've been saying for along time that Drake is just as talented if not better than Yeldon. This is obvious when watching the footage. I have Yeldon ranked where you have Javorius Allen, who is basically a better version of him. I expect Allen to be ridden into the ground by Sarkisian (just like he did to Sankey) and won't be surprised to see him lead the PAC12 in rushing next year.

You've been saying it for a long time and I've been ignoring it for a long time. As I've said before, I think you have a tendency to become hyper-critical of certain high-profile prospects while at the same time being entirely too eager to unearth the next great hidden gem. You obsess over the "hands technique" of Marqise Lee because he isn't one of your guys yet at the same time are quick to excuse the terrible frame of Kenyan Drake because he IS one of your guys. I think if you were more consistent with the level of scrutiny you applied to these players then your opinions might drift back towards the consensus.

I don't really care if you think Drake is the next big thing in the NFL. I have my own opinion. I think he's a talented player (or else he wouldn't be playing at Alabama), but I don't think he's a great pro prospect. It would be pretty surprising to me if he had sustained success as a workhorse in the NFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon actually is pretty skinny and I'm on record saying that I have some minor concerns about facets of his game. He's not a power runner, he's not really a juker either, and a lot of his big plays came on straight sprints where he didn't really have to earn his yards. Where I think there's a difference between him and Drake is that Gordon appears to possess rare speed to help compensate for his lack of power. So at least you can find a somewhat accurate successful NFL parallel in Jamaal Charles. They look pretty similar and they have a similar game. Maybe Gordon isn't as elusive, but Charles seems like the most frequent comparison for him.

On the other hand, there's not a single successful RB in the NFL who looks like Kenyan Drake. Doesn't mean it's impossible that he could succeed, but in general I always feel more comfortable investing in players who more closely align with established archetypes.

I've been saying for along time that Drake is just as talented if not better than Yeldon. This is obvious when watching the footage. I have Yeldon ranked where you have Javorius Allen, who is basically a better version of him. I expect Allen to be ridden into the ground by Sarkisian (just like he did to Sankey) and won't be surprised to see him lead the PAC12 in rushing next year.

You've been saying it for a long time and I've been ignoring it for a long time. As I've said before, I think you have a tendency to become hyper-critical of certain high-profile prospects while at the same time being entirely too eager to unearth the next great hidden gem. You obsess over the "hands technique" of Marqise Lee because he isn't one of your guys yet at the same time are quick to excuse the terrible frame of Kenyan Drake because he IS one of your guys. I think if you were more consistent with the level of scrutiny you applied to these players then your opinions might drift back towards the consensus.

I don't really care if you think Drake is the next big thing in the NFL. I have my own opinion. I think he's a talented player (or else he wouldn't be playing at Alabama), but I don't think he's a great pro prospect. It would be pretty surprising to me if he had sustained success as a workhorse in the NFL.

Melvin Gordon isn't skinny. He's quite muscular: http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/melvin-gordon-body.jpg

The reason he isn't "heavy" is because he has very little body fat on him.

I'm too eager to unearth the next hidden gem? You're the one continuing to point out that you're the first to post about guys like Lee and McCoy on this board as if it means anything.

The difference between Derrick Henry and TJ Yeldon is night and day. That's not hyper-critical. That's the truth. People didn't wanna see that Yeldon wasn't as talented as they though he was. Now they can see it. Anyone can also see that Drake has better burst and cuts better than Yeldon. The only thing Yeldon does better than Drake is pass protection.

You're the one obsessing over a terrible frame, not me. What's that have to do with hands technique? If I ever stated that I don't like skinny RBs, then you have a point. But I don't have a strict subscription to the idea of "better BMI the better".

You don't like Michael Ford's knock-kneedness, yet you don't mind Yeldon's. You're the one who doesn't like upright runners, yet you like Yeldon. You like bowlegged runners like Ameer Abdullah, yet don't like Drake. And you probably don't even notice that he is bowlegged because you've probably never watched him.

Lee has horrible technique and it cropped up in his numbers this year to the tune of a 12% drop rate. That's pretty horrible for someone who was barely targeted past 20 yards. He's a great athlete. He's not a great WR. Is that so hard to understand? But he produces so who cares right? Let's all just boxscore scout.

Edited by Xue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And you probably don't even notice that he is bowlegged because you've probably never watched him.

Let's all just boxscore scout.

Same old tired act from you. Acting like you have some special knowledge and that anyone who disagrees must not actually watch the games.

You've been wrong plenty of times in the past and maybe you're simply overrating Drake as you have countless others.

I've said my piece on Drake and don't have much to add to the discussion. My opinion is out there. So is yours. If you're truly confident in your assessment then you should be thrilled that others don't share your optimism because you should be able to grab this guy for cheap in all your drafts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And you probably don't even notice that he is bowlegged because you've probably never watched him.

Let's all just boxscore scout.

Same old tired act from you. Acting like you have some special knowledge and that anyone who disagrees must not actually watch the games.

You've been wrong plenty of times in the past and maybe you're simply overrating Drake as you have countless others.

I've said my piece on Drake and don't have much to add to the discussion. My opinion is out there. So is yours. If you're truly confident in your assessment then you should be thrilled that others don't share your optimism because you should be able to grab this guy for cheap in all your drafts.

I don't have special knowledge. Everyone knows that bowlegged means and what it looks like. I simply watch footage more closely than some others. Closely enough that I can see the bowleggedness in Kenyan Drake's running gait. Nothing special to it.

He was already taken last year in three of my deeper Devy startup leagues.

In my one league with only 2015-eligibles he was taken 1.09. I was targeting him, but he actually didn't make it to me. I did get Karlos Williams at 1.11, though. Gurley, Davis, and Yeldon went before Drake.

He was also taken 1.09 in another league that I'm not in. The same guys plus Jay Ajayi went before Drake.

Edited by Xue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.