Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I've given up believing anything I read about HTs/WTs/Speeds etc until the combine. They are rarely anywhere close to correct.
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Dynasty: NON-Draft eligible College prospects (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Xue
- Start date
True, this is what I found from ESPN.com on the roster page.
Xue
Footballguy
Those weights look right to me. Some guys simply play heavier than their actual weight. There are numerous 220+ lb RBs who have no power or strength at all. See: Anthony Dixon and Terrance Ganaway.Marshall is simply a finesse runner and Gurley is a power runner.Another is example is David Wilson and Cyrus Gray. They're both the same height and weight. But one clearly plays stronger than the other.
Xue
Footballguy
Here are some Jahwan Edwards
. I'm impressed with his vision and burst through the hole. Also some very good feet for a 225-pounder. I said it before, I see a LOT of Montee Ball in him. Watch the cut at :17. That's something I see Ball do a lot of.
As a Texas fan I've seen every game he's played, and I can tell you he's probably not an NFL RB, much less a top draft prospect. He's a nice versatile player with power who could probably play FB in the league, but he lacks the speed and quickness to play RB.Both Malcolm Brown and Johnathan Gray are much better prospects amongst the Longhorn RBs.
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Xue
Footballguy
I see Deuce McAllister. Jeremy Hill is everything we want from Le'Veon Bell.
BruceAlmighty
Footballguy
Two young wrs I really like are Stefan Diggs and Nelson Algholar. Jeff Driskel (Florida qb) has the metrics that nfl scouts will love. I think he's a better prospect than Manziel. At rb I like TJ Yeldon and Todd Gurley. Keith Marshall, Gurley's backup, is also pretty good.
Edit: Completely forgot Jeremy Hill. I think his skill set is the best of all of the young rbs but he has some obvious character concerns.
Edit: Completely forgot Jeremy Hill. I think his skill set is the best of all of the young rbs but he has some obvious character concerns.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Yesterday's game was the only full Georgia game I've seen all year. Watched the RBs closely. While it was just one game, I felt like I wanted to like Marshall more than I did. Yes, he's fast. But he didn't make anyone miss and just didn't seem very instinctual. He did make a great catch on the TD, though.
And then Gurley was solid, but he's awfully big already for a true freshman. I worry about his speed already, and he's likely to get even bigger. He did seem more like a football player, though, and I can see why he got the nod over Marshall even though Marshall was more highly recruited.
No question to me that Marshall has a higher ceiling, but he seems to also have more bust potential.
And then Gurley was solid, but he's awfully big already for a true freshman. I worry about his speed already, and he's likely to get even bigger. He did seem more like a football player, though, and I can see why he got the nod over Marshall even though Marshall was more highly recruited.
No question to me that Marshall has a higher ceiling, but he seems to also have more bust potential.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Gurley's frame looks to be able to add some and retain speed, as long as it's good weight. He doesn't look too big to me at all and he has plenty of speed. I like Gurley a good deal more than Marshall. i like hhim as much as Yeldon, both of whom I like more than the rest of their class.
EBF
Footballguy
Yea, it will be interesting. I think he might be the best QB prospect in the 2013 or 2014 classes, but this will be a good test for him.
Xue
Footballguy
Gurley looks fine at his current weight. He's got enough strength and power already. He's built just like Fred Jackson. They're both 6'1" 216-218 lbs.
EBF
Footballguy
Some other names to throw into the ring:
QB Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska
WR Allen Robinson, Penn State
WR Brandon Coleman, Rutgers
TE Xavier Grimble, USC
And then some longer shots:
RB Jela Duncan, Duke
RB Imani Cross, Nebraska
RB Trey Williams, Texas A&M
RB JC Coleman, Virginia Tech
RB Ben Malena, Texas A&M
QB Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska
WR Allen Robinson, Penn State
WR Brandon Coleman, Rutgers
TE Xavier Grimble, USC
And then some longer shots:
RB Jela Duncan, Duke
RB Imani Cross, Nebraska
RB Trey Williams, Texas A&M
RB JC Coleman, Virginia Tech
RB Ben Malena, Texas A&M
EBF
Footballguy
I like Abdullah. 1000+ yards on 5 YPC. He had a filthy run in that game against Georgia a couple days ago.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:8800114
Those are NFL cuts. Size is a question mark, but quickness isn't. And he's 2014 eligible, as opposed to 2015 for Gurley/Yeldon/Hill/etc.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:8800114
Those are NFL cuts. Size is a question mark, but quickness isn't. And he's 2014 eligible, as opposed to 2015 for Gurley/Yeldon/Hill/etc.
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having watched Oregon a few times this year, i'm not sure if any of their stars on offense will do much in the NFL. I think the best of the bunch is Mariota, but he will have to put on some weight to survive. Barner doesn't look special at all. Thomas is too small. The TE Lyerla looks promising.
What am i missing?
What am i missing?
EBF
Footballguy
It's college football. Even in a good conference, most of the players on the field will never amount to anything in the NFL. That's why the right athlete in the right offense can dominate even if he doesn't have next level skills (Jason White, Tim Tebow, Eric Crouch, etc). Oregon recruits players that fit their scheme and then puts them in situations that exploit their strengths. DeAnthony Thomas is a great example. He's probably not a great NFL prospect because of his build, but he has dynamic speed and quickness that can work wonders in certain situations.
He's a pretty decent DB prospect, though. Scout had him as both the #1 RB and #1 CB in the nation his senior year at Crenshaw. I could see him getting drafted, then flipped to defense. For a little guy, he hit pretty hard. He'll also probably be a return man in the NFL.
MAC_32
Footballguy
LMJ 2013 will probably go a long way towards convincing me one way or the other on Barner and Thomas, but the way the game is evolving guys like them can etch meaningful roles as defenses get more and more spread out. More optimistic about Thomas than Barner though. They both have the same issue, they go down too easily when contacted, but there's time for Thomas to build his body up to break tackles whereas that ship may have sailed on Barner. Really like him, but not comfortable snatching him up anywhere until I see LMJ be successful...unless Chip drafts him anyway.'DexterDew said:
EBF
Footballguy
Thomas will never get that big. Byron Marshall could be a better pro RB prospect. Thomas is more of a gadget kind of player.
The sleeper that I like on Oregon right now is their WR Josh Huff. He seems to have a lot of talent, but doesn't get many chances in their offense. I wouldn't pick him in a dev draft because he's too much of a long shot. One to watch for the future though.
The sleeper that I like on Oregon right now is their WR Josh Huff. He seems to have a lot of talent, but doesn't get many chances in their offense. I wouldn't pick him in a dev draft because he's too much of a long shot. One to watch for the future though.
jurb26
Footballguy
I have no idea what to make of this guy. His QB mechanics seem awful to me but damn is he a great athlete. I'm really looking forward to seeing him next year without his 2 future top 15 NFL pick tackles. That Texas A&M Oline is the best in football outside of maybe Alabama. I'm not sure Alabama's is better either. They get more notoriety and hype be cause they are Alabama and they are totally different as far as strength. Alabama has the best 3 interior linemen in the country, A&M has the best tackles in the country. What's better? Manziel is deadly in the open field but it seems like he has all day to sit back there and eventually a crease opens up. I don't know if he can catch but he looks like he'd be great as a slot WR in the NFL. I'm not sold at all on him playing QB right now. Next year will tell a lot more.
coolnerd
Footballguy
Given the way the NFL seems to be adapting to QBs by using thing that did in colege well to help with the transition, i could see manziel be a producitve pro. he has good accuracy in the short and intermediate areas, but does not throw as accurate a deep ball. Hard for me to tell how well he reads progrsions since he does scrammble so well/much.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Charles Davis nailed it towards the end of last night's game. He asked around for different people's opinions and they all said the same thing - he's...unique. Tried to pin Flutie on him...no, unique. Russell Wilson...no, unique. RG3 without the 5th gear...no, unique.I think that's right. May not be an elite QB, but franchise? My bet would be on yes.
doowain
Footballguy
TJ Yeldon climbs that list tonight.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I'm still sticking with my well-thought-out scientific analysis of him: "He runs goofy."
doowain
Footballguy
Can't say I can discount your analysis. I think Andrew Luck throws goofy. I'll take the same end results though 
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EBF
Footballguy
He does look goofy. Whatever the opposite of bow-legged is, that's how he runs. He's got a good burst for a big kid though and pretty quick feet. I like him as a prospect, but wouldn't feel great about burning a top 3 dev pick on him right now.It is a tough call right now between Seastrunk, Gurley, Hill, Yeldon, and maybe even Carey. I think there's upside there, but probably at least 1-2 grenades. People picking at the top of the dev draft will have some homework to do.
doowain
Footballguy
Absolutely. There are no slam dunks. Even Peterson and Richardson weren't slam dunks. AP had injury issues. Richardson had questions about how he'd handle a full load. It's very hard to project a player after 1 year in college in a timeshare. But if you hit...it's huge. I'd much rather gamble on a kid who was a blue chip recruit who got huge playing time as a true freshman coming from THE premier college program. He's more likely to be NFL ready than most RBs in his class.
He does run goofy, I was always trying to put my finger on it. He generally seems like a player that's one missed tackle away from a huge run, I hate projecting that.
Aka EBF and I are in the same league haha.
Would love to see a top-10 that excluded guys that aren't draft-eligible in '14
EBF
Footballguy
I have a massive list of players covering all years.
Won't post until after the Deep End dev draft though.
Here's a basic top 10 for a generic league:
QB Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
RB Lache Seastrunk, Baylor
RB Todd Gurley, Georgia
RB TJ Yeldon, Alabama
RB Jeremy Hill, LSU
RB Ka'Deem Carey, Arizona
WR Marqise Lee, USC
WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson
WR Stefon Diggs, Maryland
TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
Won't post until after the Deep End dev draft though.
Here's a basic top 10 for a generic league:
QB Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
RB Lache Seastrunk, Baylor
RB Todd Gurley, Georgia
RB TJ Yeldon, Alabama
RB Jeremy Hill, LSU
RB Ka'Deem Carey, Arizona
WR Marqise Lee, USC
WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson
WR Stefon Diggs, Maryland
TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
That's my first thought about his best case. A hybrid of Garcia and Flutie?
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
They said tonight McCarron is coming back for senior year. I really like him a lot. I think he deserves more credit than he gets. He's on my list.I have a massive list of players covering all years. Won't post until after the Deep End dev draft though.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Jeff Garcia is his best case? That seems like a very conservative best case to me.
Good starting point... i do have a Devy question in general: I'm having a real tough time placing a value on under classmen TE's. The lottery that is Devy picks tend to go for the high up side [re: hope they are 1st round picks, the higher the better] The TE's that have been chosen up there are VD and Winslow. If you are a late 1st or 2nd, that is a pretty good sign. In this year's Rookie draft there are a pair of really good TEs that may go late first in the NFL draft, but no one would have considered taking them with a Devy pick last year. The three difference makers right now were not 1st round picks... two had red flags and one was a converted BB player. I would postulate that it is where they ended up that made the most difference... and with Devy picks, who knows where they will land. I know this is true for all Rookies (and at least with Rookie picks, they have usually been drafted in the NFL before FF so destination is known). So my question is: how often are TE's drafted with a Devy pick? Wouldn't you rather wait and see where Eifert, Ertz, reed and Toilolo land before commiting a rare Devy pick?I have a massive list of players covering all years. Won't post until after the Deep End dev draft though.
Xue
Footballguy
I don't see him doing as much running in the NFL, although he looks like he can avoid big hits better than Griffin. He's also got a quick release, so he's able to get the ball out on short routes.
EBF
Footballguy
Actually, Eifert was picked in some of my dev drafts last year.In general, QBs and TEs fall in dev drafts because everyone would rather gamble on RBs (and to a lesser extent WRs) due to relative scarcity and value. If you hit on a first round RB, you've got a piece of gold on your roster. Even if the guy eventually flops, you can trade him for big value long before that. On the flipside, if you hit on a first round TE or QB you've got a guy who probably still isn't going to command huge value. Think about where guys like Bradford and Gresham went in your rookie drafts. That should pretty much tell you why you won't see a lot of QBs and TEs in the top 4-5 picks of a dev draft. Guys like Bridgewater and Seferian-Jenkins look like good bets for the first round of the next NFL draft, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're a better investment than a RB or WR prospect with more risk. There's also the added factor that even in a league with a split dev and rookie draft, I know that I can always find decent WR/TE/QB prospects in the rookie draft. On the flipside, the dev draft is really your only chance to ever get a top RB prospect unless you have a top 2-3 pick in the rookie draft and someone like Doug Martin, David Wilson, Rashard Mendenhall, or Ryan Mathews emerges from relative obscurity to become a big prospect that year.Good starting point... i do have a Devy question in general: I'm having a real tough time placing a value on under classmen TE's. The lottery that is Devy picks tend to go for the high up side [re: hope they are 1st round picks, the higher the better] The TE's that have been chosen up there are VD and Winslow. If you are a late 1st or 2nd, that is a pretty good sign. In this year's Rookie draft there are a pair of really good TEs that may go late first in the NFL draft, but no one would have considered taking them with a Devy pick last year. The three difference makers right now were not 1st round picks... two had red flags and one was a converted BB player. I would postulate that it is where they ended up that made the most difference... and with Devy picks, who knows where they will land. I know this is true for all Rookies (and at least with Rookie picks, they have usually been drafted in the NFL before FF so destination is known). So my question is: how often are TE's drafted with a Devy pick? Wouldn't you rather wait and see where Eifert, Ertz, reed and Toilolo land before commiting a rare Devy pick?I have a massive list of players covering all years. Won't post until after the Deep End dev draft though.
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