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Walking on eggshells (1 Viewer)

pats3in4

pats3in4

Footballguy
Update 9/26/14 (post 613): Getting divorced

-----------------------------

Wife: (yelling at me)

Me: "Please stop yelling. You're going to wake the kids and we promised we wouldn't do this for their sake."

Wife: (yelling at me)

5yr old daughter (entering the kitchen): "You guys are being too loud."

Me: "Sorry, sweetie. We'll quiet down, we promise." (she goes back to bed)

Wife: (continues to yell at me)

Me: "Seriously, this has to stop. Come on, the kids can hear this."

Wife: "Fine. I'm going to my folks' house to get away from you."

A few minutes pass while she packs a small overnight bag, then returns to put on her shoes and get the car keys...

Me: "When you're ready to talk and not yell, I'm ready to talk, too."

Wife: "Shut the f*** up!"

Me: "Hey! What the..."

Wife: "Shut the f*** up!"

Me: "Yeah, I think you need to go."

Wife leaves. Wife calls house 90 minutes later to "talk"...

Wife: (major pissed-off tone) "Okay, I'm ready to talk. Are you?"

Me: "To talk, yes. To yell and tell me to..."

Wife: "Stop! You said when I'm ready to talk then you're ready to talk to. Now there are conditions?"

Me: "You told me to shut the f*** up. Twice. I'm not ready..."

Wife: "Ohhh! So you only want to talk on *your* terms, huh?"

Wife then goes on angry rant about how I'm trying to be controlling.

Me: (trying to interject during her angry monologue) "Okay, you're clearly not ready to have a real discussion so let's just talk about this another time."

Wife continues rant.

Me: "Okay, I'm hanging up now. We'll talk another time. Get some sleep."

Wife continues rant. I hang up phone. Wife calls back 30 second later.

Wife: "Ohhh! So it's okay to hang up on me?!? That's so rude!"

Me: "I tried telling you, but you wouldn't listen or let me get in a single word."

Wife restarts rant.

Me: "Seriously, this is going nowhere. You're so angry you're just ranting away. I'm hanging up again. Please don't call back. We'll talk tomorrow."

Wife continues rant. I hang up again. Wife calls 10 seconds later, we repeat the sequence of the 2nd call. After this time, I unplug the phones and answering machine and put my cell on silent ringer.

Wife came home this morning and is pissed. Hasn't said a word to me all day, except giving me short answers to questions about the kids. I really don't want to talk to her because she knows the shut the f*** ups are out of bounds, yet won't acknowledge that.

This has been going on and off for 12 years of marriage, amped up quite a bit the last few years with the birth of our last child and the stress of being a stay-at-home-mom with 3 kids under 9. The potential for these kinds of blowups hovers over every misunderstanding or disagreement...like playing marital russian roulette. We've talked about these blowups so many times. So many promises that she'll work on them. So many broken promises. I've suggested couples counseling multiple times. She refuses. We found a great website by a marital counselor that has helped us work through a lot of these issues and were doing well for about 5 weeks, but now this.

Any real feedback is appreciated. Anybody who has similar experiences to share and how you and your spouse worked through them is appreciated. Multiple responses with a simple "nomarriage.com" will be noted, if not appreciated ;) My job tends to keep me busy, so I may find it difficult to reply to any posts in a timely manner.

 
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Enjoy your divorce.

Edit: Seriously, divorce is not necessarily a bad thing and it would probably be healthier for your children as well.

 
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I am sorry to hear this brother because it is the suck. I assume you have tried some counseling and it doesn't sound like you're on a path to turn this around, so I would try to ask you to think of what advice you would come up with if a friend came to you with this. Telling you to shut the F-up and leaving in the middle of the night, are non-starters in my world; it probably would of ended up with me in jail because I would of ran her head through a wall but I am jerk and I commend your rational responses to her irrational behavior. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

 
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'Judge Smails said:
I would be gone in 12 days. 12 years of this? Dude.....
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Trust me, I've come close to pulling the plug a handful of times. I definitely would have if these episodes were more frequent. That's the thing: They are relatively isolated, and her behavior in these times is a far cry from how she normally is. I suspect hormones are contributing and she has made attempts at regulating (i.e. the pill), but no clear improvement.
 
'huthut said:
Enjoy your divorce.Edit: Seriously, divorce is not necessarily a bad thing and it would probably be healthier for your children as well.
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Talk of separation has indeed come up in the past. It's swirling in my head right now as well. And I agree about the children comment. My oldest (8yr old daughter) is particularly sensitive to our fights and we both see how it is slowly eating away at her. This is why we promised to keep our cool in front of the kids. Empty promises, apparently.
 
'pittstownkiller said:
I am sorry to hear this brother because it is the suck. I assume you have tried some counseling and it doesn't sound like you're on a path to turn this around, so I would try to ask you to think of what advice you would come up with if a friend came to you with this. Telling you to shut the F-up and leaving in the middle of the night, are non-starters in my world; it probably would of ended up with me in jail because I would of ran her head through a wall but I am jerk and I commend your rational responses to her irrational behavior. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
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I lose my temper in response from time to time and yell back, but have gotten better at it over the years and am very conscious of it. I had to work on it for two reasons. First, it's not who I want to be. It doesn't take a marital counselor to tell you that yelling really doesn't help the situation. Second, my wife would key on my angry response and use that as ammo against me, basically using it as the equalizer and that we're both equally at fault. Then it would take forever to resolve the issue because we're both thinking the other was the bigger jerk who needs to apologize more. No thanks.
 
'lakerstan said:
Is there a particular topic that sets her off? You didn't mention what this argument was about....
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It can be any topic that can be spun into my being insensitive...The backstory: As I said in the OP, she's stressed about being a stay-at-home-mom for 3 young girls. I'm very aware of this, but my work keeps me late so it's tough to give her a spell during the week. On the weekends, she books time to get out and run errands, perhaps have coffee or lunch with a friend...whatever it takes to give her some sanity. I'm cool with this and encourage her to get out to recharge her batteries, even if running errands away from the kids gets the job done. I consider myself low-maintenance and look at time home with the girls on the weekends as a break; I rarely get out with the guys and prefer spending the weekend with the kids.So Sunday morning I'm clearing out the dishwasher and she gets on my case about not starting the coffee first. Huh? I always clear the dishwasher first thing every morning. She's just in a pissy mood. I tell her I'll get to it like I always do and she doesn't let up. At this point I tell her, "Hey, what's up with the attitude?!?" Instead of backing down, she amps it up some more, telling me how clearing the dishwasher is so OCD and useless right now and that coffee would *really* be helpful and cannot believe I don't understand that. After some more BS back-and-forth, I'm angry and this time I've lost my cool and start shouting at her that I cannot believe she's giving me grief about putting away dishes...grief about doing chores...because I'm not doing it exactly like she would. At this I head back to the bedroom, shower, get dressed and drive off to give myself a break. I go to the bar to watch the Pats/Bills game...showed up about an hour in...then head to Home Depot and Target to pick up some stuff for the house. I get back around 2pm and we're giving each other the silent treatment. Later, I tell her she was rude and inconsiderate and that if she wanted coffee first, she should have just asked nicely. She starts arguing back with her own set of facts, throwing in some story about how I didn't get the baby up on time (???) which was wrong and she went silent after I reminded her of this. The next morning as I'm heading off to work, I tell her again that I was very hurt by her attitude. Later that day, she Skypes me at work and apologizes. I accept, apologize for my shouting and we're cool again, joking and talking about what we're doing tonight when I get home.I come home and everything is great. I help get the kids down so it's just us. We're eating our usual late dinner and then it begins...Wife: "So, what did you do when you left the house yesterday morning? Go to the bar and watch the Pats?"Me: "Yes. I needed to get away from you for a while."Wife: "Well, you could have *gotten away* from me by buying some diapers, or TP. Couldn't you?"Me: "Well, I did hit Home Depot and Target on the way home."Wife: "Yeah, but did you even bother to see what we really needed? I don't see any TP. I don't see any diapers. You *also* could have gotten away from me by taking the kids."Me: "I was in a real bad mood and didn't want the kids to see that."Wife: "I don't know. Sounds awfully convenient that you decide to leave right when the Pats are playing."Me: "Seriously, I was ticked off and needed to get out."Wife: "You know, I spend *all week* with the kids. You don't. It's so inconsiderate of you to just take off unannounced and leave me to watch the kids yet again while you go off and watch *football*."Me: "Well, I wouldn't have left if you treated me with more respect yesterday morning. Plus, you went out with your friend for coffee for over four hours on Saturday so there's nothing wrong with me taking some 'me time', especially if it helps me cool off after fighting with you."Wife: "No no no! I ran *errands* with my friend and we picked up some coffee along the way. There wasn't a whole lot of 'me time'."Me: "Well, what you choose to do with your time out with your friends is your choice and what I choose to do with my time is my choice."Wife: (now starts yelling at me about how her time out with her friend is not the same as the selfish time I had at the bar)Me: Please stop yelling.Aaaand we're back to the OP.
 
She sounds like a lunatic. Not really sure how you're 12 years and 3 kids deep, but OK.

I'd just walk the #### out the door any time she starts getting crazy. Don't engage. Get her to see someone who can give her some drugs. Get a girl on the side just to maintain your sanity.

 
'pats3in4 said:
Wife: (yelling at me)

Me: "Please stop yelling. You're going to wake the kids and we promised we wouldn't do this for their sake."

Wife: (yelling at me)

5yr old daughter (entering the kitchen): "You guys are being too loud."

Me: "Sorry, sweetie. We'll quiet down, we promise." (she goes back to bed)

Wife: (continues to yell at me)

Me: "Seriously, this has to stop. Come on, the kids can hear this."

Wife: "Fine. I'm going to my folks' house to get away from you."

A few minutes pass while she packs a small overnight bag, then returns to put on her shoes and get the car keys...

Me: "When you're ready to talk and not yell, I'm ready to talk, too."

Wife: "Shut the f*** up!"

Me: "Hey! What the..."

Wife: "Shut the f*** up!"

Me: SMACK!

Wife: "Sorry"
Click to expand...
 
Does she not think that your time at work is, you know, work? She makes it sound like when you leave her at home for the days during the week, you are out at a party and leaving her home to watch the kids, so that when the weekend comes it should be her time to have that party and catch up with you. You say 3 kids under 9, but don't list ages. Either way, doesn't matter. IF she can get a job and put them into daycare, then let her. Maybe that will let her realize that work isn't the ball of joy that she thinks it is. And depending on how old all the kids are, at a minimum the 9 year old is in school for the entire day, not hanging around going "mom mom mom ma ma ma mom mommy mommy mom" and tugging at her skirt.

 
All i know about your family is from your posts...but i hope you guys have implemented permament birth control options. It doesnt sound lile either of you really need that stressor and it already sounds like 3 kids is overwhelming.

How much time do you spend with the kids? Your work take that out of the equation on work days?

 
What a f'd up situation. I feel for you brother. I doubt it gets better....ever.

How's the :pickle: time? Guessing poor.

 
From the OP's posts, I believe he has an 8yo, a 5yo and a baby.

Unless they're homeschooling, 2/3 are at school all day and she has a baby with her. The baby has a minimum of 2 naps during the day. IMO, the issues aren't with the kids.

Your wife needs medical attention or a severe wake up call. Completely unacceptable to treat you like a rented mule.

 
I don't know if this is even on the radar, but what about postpartum depression? How old is your youngest? Does she have a mommy support system, other than you? You'd be surprised how much that helps. What did your wife do BC (before children) career wise? Could she go back to work?

It seems like she is fishing for anything to start a fight. I believe she has some resentment towards you and is very unhappy with her life, that goes without saying. I don't really know how much of this actually has to do with you.

Either way, this will not fix itself.

 
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Sounds like shes depressed, tired and stressed to the Max. Also 2 sides to every story. I'm sure you're not all Mr Rogers in every argument. She needs a life change. May mean daycare and going back to work atleast parttime. Or a vacation alone. Over the years kids can be very mind numbing.

 
'pats3in4 said:
'lakerstan said:
Is there a particular topic that sets her off? You didn't mention what this argument was about....
Click to expand...
It can be any topic that can be spun into my being insensitive...The backstory: As I said in the OP, she's stressed about being a stay-at-home-mom for 3 young girls. I'm very aware of this, but my work keeps me late so it's tough to give her a spell during the week. On the weekends, she books time to get out and run errands, perhaps have coffee or lunch with a friend...whatever it takes to give her some sanity. I'm cool with this and encourage her to get out to recharge her batteries, even if running errands away from the kids gets the job done. I consider myself low-maintenance and look at time home with the girls on the weekends as a break; I rarely get out with the guys and prefer spending the weekend with the kids.

So Sunday morning I'm clearing out the dishwasher and she gets on my case about not starting the coffee first. Huh? I always clear the dishwasher first thing every morning. She's just in a pissy mood. I tell her I'll get to it like I always do and she doesn't let up. At this point I tell her, "Hey, what's up with the attitude?!?" Instead of backing down, she amps it up some more, telling me how clearing the dishwasher is so OCD and useless right now and that coffee would *really* be helpful and cannot believe I don't understand that. After some more BS back-and-forth, I'm angry and this time I've lost my cool and start shouting at her that I cannot believe she's giving me grief about putting away dishes...grief about doing chores...because I'm not doing it exactly like she would. At this I head back to the bedroom, shower, get dressed and drive off to give myself a break. I go to the bar to watch the Pats/Bills game...showed up about an hour in...then head to Home Depot and Target to pick up some stuff for the house. I get back around 2pm and we're giving each other the silent treatment. Later, I tell her she was rude and inconsiderate and that if she wanted coffee first, she should have just asked nicely. She starts arguing back with her own set of facts, throwing in some story about how I didn't get the baby up on time (???) which was wrong and she went silent after I reminded her of this. The next morning as I'm heading off to work, I tell her again that I was very hurt by her attitude. Later that day, she Skypes me at work and apologizes. I accept, apologize for my shouting and we're cool again, joking and talking about what we're doing tonight when I get home.

I come home and everything is great. I help get the kids down so it's just us. We're eating our usual late dinner and then it begins...

Wife: "So, what did you do when you left the house yesterday morning? Go to the bar and watch the Pats?"

Me: "Yes. I needed to get away from you for a while."

Wife: "Well, you could have *gotten away* from me by buying some diapers, or TP. Couldn't you?"

Me: "Well, I did hit Home Depot and Target on the way home."

Wife: "Yeah, but did you even bother to see what we really needed? I don't see any TP. I don't see any diapers. You *also* could have gotten away from me by taking the kids."

Me: "I was in a real bad mood and didn't want the kids to see that."

Wife: "I don't know. Sounds awfully convenient that you decide to leave right when the Pats are playing."

Me: "Seriously, I was ticked off and needed to get out."

Wife: "You know, I spend *all week* with the kids. You don't. It's so inconsiderate of you to just take off unannounced and leave me to watch the kids yet again while you go off and watch *football*."

Me: "Well, I wouldn't have left if you treated me with more respect yesterday morning. Plus, you went out with your friend for coffee for over four hours on Saturday so there's nothing wrong with me taking some 'me time', especially if it helps me cool off after fighting with you."

Wife: "No no no! I ran *errands* with my friend and we picked up some coffee along the way. There wasn't a whole lot of 'me time'."

Me: "Well, what you choose to do with your time out with your friends is your choice and what I choose to do with my time is my choice."

Wife: (now starts yelling at me about how her time out with her friend is not the same as the selfish time I had at the bar)

Me: Please stop yelling.

Aaaand we're back to the OP.
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Step back for a second and try to empathize. Our lives sound similar as far as our wives being stay-at-home moms, the kids (we have four boys) and work. Life is absolutely crazy sometimes and we both need time to cool off. But we don't walk out on each other. I'll go outside and do yard work or even the dishes to take a moment to calm down. My wife will clean the house, vacuum, or the laundry. Maybe not exactly what we want to do but it serves the dual purpose of getting something done and calms us.

Frankly, communication is a two way street and you probably should have taken the kids. Go do something fun with them.

 
'pats3in4 said:
This has been going on and off for 12 years of marriage, amped up quite a bit the last few years with the birth of our last child and the stress of being a stay-at-home-mom with 3 kids under 9. The potential for these kinds of blowups hovers over every misunderstanding or disagreement...like playing marital russian roulette. We've talked about these blowups so many times. So many promises that she'll work on them. So many broken promises. I've suggested couples counseling multiple times. She refuses. We found a great website by a marital counselor that has helped us work through a lot of these issues and were doing well for about 5 weeks, but now this.

Any real feedback is appreciated. Anybody who has similar experiences to share and how you and your spouse worked through them is appreciated. Multiple responses with a simple "nomarriage.com" will be noted, if not appreciated ;)

My job tends to keep me busy, so I may find it difficult to reply to any posts in a timely manner.
Click to expand...
Doesn't sound to me like it has to do with the kids.
 
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'pats3in4 said:
'lakerstan said:
Is there a particular topic that sets her off? You didn't mention what this argument was about....
Click to expand...
It can be any topic that can be spun into my being insensitive...The backstory: As I said in the OP, she's stressed about being a stay-at-home-mom for 3 young girls. I'm very aware of this, but my work keeps me late so it's tough to give her a spell during the week. On the weekends, she books time to get out and run errands, perhaps have coffee or lunch with a friend...whatever it takes to give her some sanity. I'm cool with this and encourage her to get out to recharge her batteries, even if running errands away from the kids gets the job done. I consider myself low-maintenance and look at time home with the girls on the weekends as a break; I rarely get out with the guys and prefer spending the weekend with the kids.So Sunday morning I'm clearing out the dishwasher and she gets on my case about not starting the coffee first. Huh? I always clear the dishwasher first thing every morning. She's just in a pissy mood. I tell her I'll get to it like I always do and she doesn't let up. At this point I tell her, "Hey, what's up with the attitude?!?" Instead of backing down, she amps it up some more, telling me how clearing the dishwasher is so OCD and useless right now and that coffee would *really* be helpful and cannot believe I don't understand that. After some more BS back-and-forth, I'm angry and this time I've lost my cool and start shouting at her that I cannot believe she's giving me grief about putting away dishes...grief about doing chores...because I'm not doing it exactly like she would. At this I head back to the bedroom, shower, get dressed and drive off to give myself a break. I go to the bar to watch the Pats/Bills game...showed up about an hour in...then head to Home Depot and Target to pick up some stuff for the house. I get back around 2pm and we're giving each other the silent treatment. Later, I tell her she was rude and inconsiderate and that if she wanted coffee first, she should have just asked nicely. She starts arguing back with her own set of facts, throwing in some story about how I didn't get the baby up on time (???) which was wrong and she went silent after I reminded her of this. The next morning as I'm heading off to work, I tell her again that I was very hurt by her attitude. Later that day, she Skypes me at work and apologizes. I accept, apologize for my shouting and we're cool again, joking and talking about what we're doing tonight when I get home.I come home and everything is great. I help get the kids down so it's just us. We're eating our usual late dinner and then it begins...Wife: "So, what did you do when you left the house yesterday morning? Go to the bar and watch the Pats?"Me: "Yes. I needed to get away from you for a while."Wife: "Well, you could have *gotten away* from me by buying some diapers, or TP. Couldn't you?"Me: "Well, I did hit Home Depot and Target on the way home."Wife: "Yeah, but did you even bother to see what we really needed? I don't see any TP. I don't see any diapers. You *also* could have gotten away from me by taking the kids."Me: "I was in a real bad mood and didn't want the kids to see that."Wife: "I don't know. Sounds awfully convenient that you decide to leave right when the Pats are playing."Me: "Seriously, I was ticked off and needed to get out."Wife: "You know, I spend *all week* with the kids. You don't. It's so inconsiderate of you to just take off unannounced and leave me to watch the kids yet again while you go off and watch *football*."Me: "Well, I wouldn't have left if you treated me with more respect yesterday morning. Plus, you went out with your friend for coffee for over four hours on Saturday so there's nothing wrong with me taking some 'me time', especially if it helps me cool off after fighting with you."Wife: "No no no! I ran *errands* with my friend and we picked up some coffee along the way. There wasn't a whole lot of 'me time'."Me: "Well, what you choose to do with your time out with your friends is your choice and what I choose to do with my time is my choice."Wife: (now starts yelling at me about how her time out with her friend is not the same as the selfish time I had at the bar)Me: Please stop yelling.Aaaand we're back to the OP.
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Dude you gotta look at it from her situation. Women can be "b|tchy". So if she comes down and gripes about the coffee, you don't say "I'll get to it when I get to it", then storm out and go to the bar to watch a game. All you are doing is turning one snarky comment into a huge argument. It sounds to me like you are overly sensitive. I know it's tough on the ol ego, but a simple "You're right honey, I should have thought of your coffee first", and then an immediate start to the coffee would have ended the argument. Then she probably would have apologized later for snapping.
 
I know you mentioned couples counseling and she said no, what about individual counseling for her? A lot of times having someone to talk/vent to helps. Another thing, does she want to be a stay at home mom? Seems like she needs to work through some issues without you before she can actually discuss things with you.

 
I kind of agree with your wife :unsure:

You say she stays home with the kids all week and you take them on the weekends, yet the first sign of trouble on Sunday, you head out the door without the kids to a bar?

 
'shadyridr said:
I kind of agree with your wife :unsure:You say she stays home with the kids all week and you take them on the weekends, yet the first sign of trouble on Sunday, you head out the door without the kids to a bar?
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They don't make women like they used to.
 
Good luck. Can you get her some support from friends or family. Can you take some of the burden around the house off her with better planning on meals or shopping or letting her blow off steam and get out of the house while you take the 3?

She must be fried by the baby bc I would guess the two older ones are off together most the time. She needs some zolofts. Aren't the older ones in school so it's just her and the baby most the day?

This situation just made my life with a 2 and a 1 yr old seem downright smooth so thanks for that at least.

 
I didn't see that "going to the bar post."

Can definitely see her side of it as well. There's definitely some communication issues with you two. Also good point about not getting any diapers/TP. As a general rule - call whenever you are at any store to see if anything is needed (even if you are pissed off).

 
'bushdocda said:
Good luck. Can you get her some support from friends or family. Can you take some of the burden around the house off her with better planning on meals or shopping or letting her blow off steam and get out of the house while you take the 3?

She must be fried by the baby bc I would guess the two older ones are off together most the time. She needs some zolofts. Aren't the older ones in school so it's just her and the baby most the day?

This situation just made my life with a 2 and a 1 yr old seem downright smooth so thanks for that at least.
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:lmao:
 
You're very selfish aren't you?

To save your marriage, get a nanny or find a day care place - at this pace she will lose her mind within a few months. Got grandparents that can help out a day or two during the week?

She obviously is overwhelmed and needs a break. Maybe a part time job to find her sanity.

FYI - I also have 3 kids under 9 - there are times my wife REALLY looks forward to going to work.

 
'pats3in4 said:
Wife: (yelling at me)

Me: "Please stop yelling. You're going to wake the kids and we promised we wouldn't do this for their sake."

Wife: (yelling at me)

5yr old daughter (entering the kitchen): "You guys are being too loud."

Me: "Sorry, sweetie. We'll quiet down, we promise." (she goes back to bed)

Wife: (continues to yell at me)

Me: "Seriously, this has to stop. Come on, the kids can hear this."

Wife: "Fine. I'm going to my folks' house to get away from you."

A few minutes pass while she packs a small overnight bag, then returns to put on her shoes and get the car keys...

Me: "When you're ready to talk and not yell, I'm ready to talk, too."

Wife: "Shut the f*** up!"

Me: "Hey! What the..."

Wife: "Shut the f*** up!"

Me: "Yeah, I think you need to go."

Wife leaves. Wife calls house 90 minutes later to "talk"...

Wife: (major pissed-off tone) "Okay, I'm ready to talk. Are you?"

Me: "To talk, yes. To yell and tell me to..."

Wife: "Stop! You said when I'm ready to talk then you're ready to talk to. Now there are conditions?"

Me: "You told me to shut the f*** up. Twice. I'm not ready..."

Wife: "Ohhh! So you only want to talk on *your* terms, huh?"

Wife then goes on angry rant about how I'm trying to be controlling.

Me: (trying to interject during her angry monologue) "Okay, you're clearly not ready to have a real discussion so let's just talk about this another time."

Wife continues rant.

Me: "Okay, I'm hanging up now. We'll talk another time. Get some sleep."

Wife continues rant. I hang up phone.

Wife calls back 30 second later.

Wife: "Ohhh! So it's okay to hang up on me?!? That's so rude!"

Me: "I tried telling you, but you wouldn't listen or let me get in a single word."

Wife restarts rant.

Me: "Seriously, this is going nowhere. You're so angry you're just ranting away. I'm hanging up again. Please don't call back. We'll talk tomorrow."

Wife continues rant. I hang up again.

Wife calls 10 seconds later, we repeat the sequence of the 2nd call.

After this time, I unplug the phones and answering machine and put my cell on silent ringer.

Wife came home this morning and is pissed. Hasn't said a word to me all day, except giving me short answers to questions about the kids. I really don't want to talk to her because she knows the shut the f*** ups are out of bounds, yet won't acknowledge that.

This has been going on and off for 12 years of marriage, amped up quite a bit the last few years with the birth of our last child and the stress of being a stay-at-home-mom with 3 kids under 9. The potential for these kinds of blowups hovers over every misunderstanding or disagreement...like playing marital russian roulette. We've talked about these blowups so many times. So many promises that she'll work on them. So many broken promises. I've suggested couples counseling multiple times. She refuses. We found a great website by a marital counselor that has helped us work through a lot of these issues and were doing well for about 5 weeks, but now this.

Any real feedback is appreciated. Anybody who has similar experiences to share and how you and your spouse worked through them is appreciated. Multiple responses with a simple "nomarriage.com" will be noted, if not appreciated ;)

My job tends to keep me busy, so I may find it difficult to reply to any posts in a timely manner.
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Been there. Really I have. Woman are biologicially programmed to be stay at home moms. Just as men are programmed to go out and get dinner for the family. It's just that in the modern age, role confusion, gender equality (terrible idea), and mainstream media have muddied the waters so much that nobody know how the #### to act anymore. The answer is simple to say but more difficult to do. Just be an awesome husband, and she'll be an awesome wife. But there are a lot of layers to being an awesome husband. Much of it involves passing her little #### tests. Women will actually try to test you to see if you'll take their ####. And while you think you are doing the right thing by jumping up and getting her some cream for her coffee while she sits at the table, you are actually lowering you value in her eyes. Women need to look up to their husbands. They don't want another child they can order about. They want a man. And when you take their ####, they view you as less of one.

Your wife isn't able to make herself happy. She doesn't know why she's unhappy. She needs to be led out of this ####storm. And you, as the man on the house, have a responsibility to lead your family. This blog linked below is about sex and marriage, because lets be honest, if you are ####### 5 times a week, everything else is fine. Because for your wife to want to #### that much, the other issues have to be addressed. THis is a blog the is really more about being a man than getting laid. The book is good and much of the advice makes sense, even if it is counter-intuitive.

One of the best thing I've read is very simple - just preface everything a woman says with "right now I feel like...."

Right now I feel like I'm hungry.

Right now I feel like I love you.

Right now I feel like the kids are too much.

Right now I feel like the car isn't nice enough.

Right now I feel like I want that diamond.

Right now I feel like I should spend the night at my mom's.

Right now I feel like you are rude because you hung up on me.

marriedmansexlife.com

 
'shader said:
'pats3in4 said:
'lakerstan said:
Is there a particular topic that sets her off? You didn't mention what this argument was about....
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It can be any topic that can be spun into my being insensitive...The backstory: As I said in the OP, she's stressed about being a stay-at-home-mom for 3 young girls. I'm very aware of this, but my work keeps me late so it's tough to give her a spell during the week. On the weekends, she books time to get out and run errands, perhaps have coffee or lunch with a friend...whatever it takes to give her some sanity. I'm cool with this and encourage her to get out to recharge her batteries, even if running errands away from the kids gets the job done. I consider myself low-maintenance and look at time home with the girls on the weekends as a break; I rarely get out with the guys and prefer spending the weekend with the kids.

So Sunday morning I'm clearing out the dishwasher and she gets on my case about not starting the coffee first. Huh? I always clear the dishwasher first thing every morning. She's just in a pissy mood. I tell her I'll get to it like I always do and she doesn't let up. At this point I tell her, "Hey, what's up with the attitude?!?" Instead of backing down, she amps it up some more, telling me how clearing the dishwasher is so OCD and useless right now and that coffee would *really* be helpful and cannot believe I don't understand that. After some more BS back-and-forth, I'm angry and this time I've lost my cool and start shouting at her that I cannot believe she's giving me grief about putting away dishes...grief about doing chores...because I'm not doing it exactly like she would. At this I head back to the bedroom, shower, get dressed and drive off to give myself a break. I go to the bar to watch the Pats/Bills game...showed up about an hour in...then head to Home Depot and Target to pick up some stuff for the house. I get back around 2pm and we're giving each other the silent treatment. Later, I tell her she was rude and inconsiderate and that if she wanted coffee first, she should have just asked nicely. She starts arguing back with her own set of facts, throwing in some story about how I didn't get the baby up on time (???) which was wrong and she went silent after I reminded her of this. The next morning as I'm heading off to work, I tell her again that I was very hurt by her attitude. Later that day, she Skypes me at work and apologizes. I accept, apologize for my shouting and we're cool again, joking and talking about what we're doing tonight when I get home.

I come home and everything is great. I help get the kids down so it's just us. We're eating our usual late dinner and then it begins...

Wife: "So, what did you do when you left the house yesterday morning? Go to the bar and watch the Pats?"

Me: "Yes. I needed to get away from you for a while."

Wife: "Well, you could have *gotten away* from me by buying some diapers, or TP. Couldn't you?"

Me: "Well, I did hit Home Depot and Target on the way home."

Wife: "Yeah, but did you even bother to see what we really needed? I don't see any TP. I don't see any diapers. You *also* could have gotten away from me by taking the kids."

Me: "I was in a real bad mood and didn't want the kids to see that."

Wife: "I don't know. Sounds awfully convenient that you decide to leave right when the Pats are playing."

Me: "Seriously, I was ticked off and needed to get out."

Wife: "You know, I spend *all week* with the kids. You don't. It's so inconsiderate of you to just take off unannounced and leave me to watch the kids yet again while you go off and watch *football*."

Me: "Well, I wouldn't have left if you treated me with more respect yesterday morning. Plus, you went out with your friend for coffee for over four hours on Saturday so there's nothing wrong with me taking some 'me time', especially if it helps me cool off after fighting with you."

Wife: "No no no! I ran *errands* with my friend and we picked up some coffee along the way. There wasn't a whole lot of 'me time'."

Me: "Well, what you choose to do with your time out with your friends is your choice and what I choose to do with my time is my choice."

Wife: (now starts yelling at me about how her time out with her friend is not the same as the selfish time I had at the bar)

Me: Please stop yelling.

Aaaand we're back to the OP.
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Dude you gotta look at it from her situation. Women can be "b|tchy". So if she comes down and gripes about the coffee, you don't say "I'll get to it when I get to it", then storm out and go to the bar to watch a game. All you are doing is turning one snarky comment into a huge argument. It sounds to me like you are overly sensitive.

I know it's tough on the ol ego, but a simple "You're right honey, I should have thought of your coffee first", and then an immediate start to the coffee would have ended the argument. Then she probably would have apologized later for snapping.
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I have a feeling that part of the reason he is in this situation is from having done this early and often in the relationship.Oh...and your last sentence is in the running for the funniest thing I have heard in 2012.

 
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Good Luck. Next time she starts ranting, just let her rant. Take notes if you have to about everything she complains about and DO NOT interrupt her. Let her get it all out. When she is finished ranting, tell her you have listened and would like to discuss some her points when she is calm and ready to do so and without interrupting you as you just listened to her, uninterrupted for XXX minutes. Offer genuine feedback and say things like When you X, I feel like XXX. She can't argue with how you feel.

I might also suggest time away for the kids for the two of together or just for her alone and/or therapy for both of you.

Good Luck!

 
'shadyridr said:
I kind of agree with your wife :unsure:You say she stays home with the kids all week and you take them on the weekends, yet the first sign of trouble on Sunday, you head out the door without the kids to a bar?
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This is where I am too. Seems this could have been avoided far before it got there. This sounds like an argument after 12 months of marriage, not 12 years. And taking off like you did was certainly pretty inconsiderate. Her behavior afterwards in the OP isn't appropriate but you share a good bit of blame here too and would do well to acknowledge that to her.Also, the sentiments about postpartum depression are right on as well.
 
Also, when is the last time you took the kids out and let her have a significant break? You should strongly consider doing so if you haven't.

 
'Ignoratio Elenchi said:
'Standing Hampton said:
I don't know if this is even on the radar, but what about postpartum depression?
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:goodposting:
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I should've added more than a simple emoticon. My wife got postpartum depression after the birth of our son. I didn't recognize it at first, thought it was just stress from having a newborn, but by the time he was three months old or so I finally realized something more was going on, talked to her about it, and together we brought it up to the doctor. We got a psychiatrist involved, she got on some meds and it worked wonders. In general I've never been a big fan of medicating stuff like this, but I have to admit I think it was the right solution. As soon as I saw the title of the thread I had a feeling I knew exactly what it was going to be about, because that's the exact phrase I've used in the past. It's like you're just frozen because you're not sure what thing you do or say will be the one to set her off, it's totally unpredictable and impossible to reason your way out of. As I read the OP it felt eerily familiar to "conversations" we've had in the past.

Now, I never packed up and left for the bar for a few hours, I think that was a serious mistake on your part. Walking away, even for a few hours, won't make anything better. It might allow you to tune it out for a few hours, but she's still there, depressed and angry and with three young kids to care for. Very selfish imo. I'm not trying to kill you over that point, but I'd avoid that kind of reaction in the future.

Get her to talk to someone. Best bet is to just start with her regular doctor, because it may really be a chemical/hormonal kind of thing that your wife really can't control. She may hate acting the way she does as much as you do, but she can't help it, can't figure out why she feels the way she does, etc. Tread carefully here. You don't want to come off as just saying, "Wife, you're clearly bat#### insane, we need to get you on some pills." Show a genuine interest in the way she's feeling, about being home with the kids, about her role in the family and the world, etc. Find out what's really behind flipping out over the coffee, because I'm 99.9% certain that blowup had absolutely nothing to do with coffee. Ask if she's been feeling depressed and frame everything like you're concerned and want her to be happy and fulfilled, not like you want to "fix" her so she stops yelling at you.

It's not all medical, of course. It sounds like work keeps you out of the house a lot. Taking care of young kids can be really hard. You say you take the kids for a few hours on a weekend and look at that as a break. For her, it's not a break. If she's home with them all week during the day and most of the night and most of the weekend, that's a huge burden. I get it, you're working, too, but it's a different kind of exhaustion. Make sure she gets some time for herself, and make sure she uses that time to really relax. If she gets a few hours alone but uses that time to run errands for the family, that doesn't count. Make sure she does something that is totally for her own mental well-being. It goes a long way. Also, if you have family or a trusted babysitter who can take the kids overnight once in a while so you and your wife can go out and enjoy a nice dinner date alone, that also works wonders in my experience.

Women in general are emotional and irrational and all that, but sometimes it goes beyond just normal female stuff. It sounds to me like it could very well be the case that your wife has some form of depression. She needs some kind of help, and she's not going to be able to get it herself. She needs you to help her. Talking back about making coffee, and then bringing it up again later to tell her how out of line she was, is just making the problem worse. It doesn't matter if you have the facts on your side, it was never really about the coffee or the dishwasher in the first place. You have to look past the "stuff" that she seems to be getting upset about and figure out what she's really upset about. :shrug:

 
I am closer to the side of the folks empathizing with your wife, however I don't agree with anyone insulting you.

Having been in a very similar situation, my guess is taht you two are both stressed by the pressures of life (totally understandable) and that has all built up over time and you have not developed very good communication skills or figured out how to give each other what you need. You and she may not even be aware of what you really need, and what you are missing.

I went through hell with my ex-wife and I now realize that a lot of it had to do with our inability to communicate with or understand each other. I genuinely believe that we were simply not compatible and had very different personalities, which made it virtually impossible to fully understand each other's needs. Our opposite personalities were fun and enjoyable in the beginning when there was little to no stress. She got pregnant unexpectedly prior to us getting married and over time the stress built up and we didn't communicate (or didn't know how) and had many blow-ups similar to what you describe. I felt like coming into my house every day was like walking around a mine field.

I'm not saying that divorce is the only option, but I would say that you should take a good hard look at whether you are truly compatible with one another on a day-to-day basis. You say that this stuff has been going on for 12 years, but my guess is that it was minimal in the beginning and seemed unimportant (or else why would you marry her?). Over time the issues have become exacerbated and now it has reached a boiling point. I do believe that if you guys are committed and have enough compatibility, then you could devise a plan to give her time that she needs, to do whatever she wants, and give you time that you need to do whatever you want. It sucks having to try to schedule free time (and for me, almost defeats the purpose), but if the marriage and family are that important to you, then you can do it. You probably need to figure out some way to get a good cooling off period so that you are both in the right frame in mind, or else planning and/or counseling might be difficult no matter what.

My ex also had some psychological instability, so I guess that I wouldn't rule that out, but having been through marriage and kids and reflected on a lot of it, the frustration that she's feeling and expressing seems totally sensible to me.

 
'comfortably numb said:
'shader said:
'pats3in4 said:
'lakerstan said:
Is there a particular topic that sets her off? You didn't mention what this argument was about....
Click to expand...
It can be any topic that can be spun into my being insensitive...The backstory: As I said in the OP, she's stressed about being a stay-at-home-mom for 3 young girls. I'm very aware of this, but my work keeps me late so it's tough to give her a spell during the week. On the weekends, she books time to get out and run errands, perhaps have coffee or lunch with a friend...whatever it takes to give her some sanity. I'm cool with this and encourage her to get out to recharge her batteries, even if running errands away from the kids gets the job done. I consider myself low-maintenance and look at time home with the girls on the weekends as a break; I rarely get out with the guys and prefer spending the weekend with the kids.

So Sunday morning I'm clearing out the dishwasher and she gets on my case about not starting the coffee first. Huh? I always clear the dishwasher first thing every morning. She's just in a pissy mood. I tell her I'll get to it like I always do and she doesn't let up. At this point I tell her, "Hey, what's up with the attitude?!?" Instead of backing down, she amps it up some more, telling me how clearing the dishwasher is so OCD and useless right now and that coffee would *really* be helpful and cannot believe I don't understand that. After some more BS back-and-forth, I'm angry and this time I've lost my cool and start shouting at her that I cannot believe she's giving me grief about putting away dishes...grief about doing chores...because I'm not doing it exactly like she would. At this I head back to the bedroom, shower, get dressed and drive off to give myself a break. I go to the bar to watch the Pats/Bills game...showed up about an hour in...then head to Home Depot and Target to pick up some stuff for the house. I get back around 2pm and we're giving each other the silent treatment. Later, I tell her she was rude and inconsiderate and that if she wanted coffee first, she should have just asked nicely. She starts arguing back with her own set of facts, throwing in some story about how I didn't get the baby up on time (???) which was wrong and she went silent after I reminded her of this. The next morning as I'm heading off to work, I tell her again that I was very hurt by her attitude. Later that day, she Skypes me at work and apologizes. I accept, apologize for my shouting and we're cool again, joking and talking about what we're doing tonight when I get home.

I come home and everything is great. I help get the kids down so it's just us. We're eating our usual late dinner and then it begins...

Wife: "So, what did you do when you left the house yesterday morning? Go to the bar and watch the Pats?"

Me: "Yes. I needed to get away from you for a while."

Wife: "Well, you could have *gotten away* from me by buying some diapers, or TP. Couldn't you?"

Me: "Well, I did hit Home Depot and Target on the way home."

Wife: "Yeah, but did you even bother to see what we really needed? I don't see any TP. I don't see any diapers. You *also* could have gotten away from me by taking the kids."

Me: "I was in a real bad mood and didn't want the kids to see that."

Wife: "I don't know. Sounds awfully convenient that you decide to leave right when the Pats are playing."

Me: "Seriously, I was ticked off and needed to get out."

Wife: "You know, I spend *all week* with the kids. You don't. It's so inconsiderate of you to just take off unannounced and leave me to watch the kids yet again while you go off and watch *football*."

Me: "Well, I wouldn't have left if you treated me with more respect yesterday morning. Plus, you went out with your friend for coffee for over four hours on Saturday so there's nothing wrong with me taking some 'me time', especially if it helps me cool off after fighting with you."

Wife: "No no no! I ran *errands* with my friend and we picked up some coffee along the way. There wasn't a whole lot of 'me time'."

Me: "Well, what you choose to do with your time out with your friends is your choice and what I choose to do with my time is my choice."

Wife: (now starts yelling at me about how her time out with her friend is not the same as the selfish time I had at the bar)

Me: Please stop yelling.

Aaaand we're back to the OP.
Click to expand...
Dude you gotta look at it from her situation. Women can be "b|tchy". So if she comes down and gripes about the coffee, you don't say "I'll get to it when I get to it", then storm out and go to the bar to watch a game. All you are doing is turning one snarky comment into a huge argument. It sounds to me like you are overly sensitive.

I know it's tough on the ol ego, but a simple "You're right honey, I should have thought of your coffee first", and then an immediate start to the coffee would have ended the argument. Then she probably would have apologized later for snapping.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling that part of the reason he is in this situation is from having done this early and often in the relationship.Oh...and your last sentence is in the running for the funniest thing I have heard in 2012.
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I guess it would depend on the marriage. It's hard to armchair a marriage from an internet post. My wife would rarely ever come downstairs and gripe at me about coffee or a diet soda in the morning. If on an occasion she did, I'd hope i reacted as I posted.If it is a common occurrence, and the wife always wakes up whining and angry about something, than there are deeper issues.

But it seemed to me, and again I'm just armchairing it here, that that gripe was a little out of the norm and that the OP got his feelings hurt by her snapping at him.

 
'Sabertooth said:
'Andy Dufresne said:
Post-partum depression can last a LONG time. I think she needs a doctor.
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Till what, the kids are 18?
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My wife went on meds for postpartum depression when my son was about 3 months old. He's now 21 months old and she's still on a reduced dose, and I can still tell right away when she forgot to take her pill the night before. I don't know when she'll be at the point that she won't need them at all, I'm not exactly thrilled that she's still on them, but I do know that they've made a world of difference.
 
'pats3in4 said:
Trust me, I've come close to pulling the plug a handful of times. I definitely would have if these episodes were more frequent. That's the thing: They are relatively isolated, and her behavior in these times is a far cry from how she normally is. I suspect hormones are contributing and she has made attempts at regulating (i.e. the pill), but no clear improvement.
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are these episodes happening about every 4 weeks, by chance?
 
'Ignoratio Elenchi said:
'Ignoratio Elenchi said:
'Standing Hampton said:
I don't know if this is even on the radar, but what about postpartum depression?
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
Click to expand...
I should've added more than a simple emoticon. My wife got postpartum depression after the birth of our son. I didn't recognize it at first, thought it was just stress from having a newborn, but by the time he was three months old or so I finally realized something more was going on, talked to her about it, and together we brought it up to the doctor. We got a psychiatrist involved, she got on some meds and it worked wonders. In general I've never been a big fan of medicating stuff like this, but I have to admit I think it was the right solution. As soon as I saw the title of the thread I had a feeling I knew exactly what it was going to be about, because that's the exact phrase I've used in the past. It's like you're just frozen because you're not sure what thing you do or say will be the one to set her off, it's totally unpredictable and impossible to reason your way out of. As I read the OP it felt eerily familiar to "conversations" we've had in the past.

Now, I never packed up and left for the bar for a few hours, I think that was a serious mistake on your part. Walking away, even for a few hours, won't make anything better. It might allow you to tune it out for a few hours, but she's still there, depressed and angry and with three young kids to care for. Very selfish imo. I'm not trying to kill you over that point, but I'd avoid that kind of reaction in the future.

Get her to talk to someone. Best bet is to just start with her regular doctor, because it may really be a chemical/hormonal kind of thing that your wife really can't control. She may hate acting the way she does as much as you do, but she can't help it, can't figure out why she feels the way she does, etc. Tread carefully here. You don't want to come off as just saying, "Wife, you're clearly bat#### insane, we need to get you on some pills." Show a genuine interest in the way she's feeling, about being home with the kids, about her role in the family and the world, etc. Find out what's really behind flipping out over the coffee, because I'm 99.9% certain that blowup had absolutely nothing to do with coffee. Ask if she's been feeling depressed and frame everything like you're concerned and want her to be happy and fulfilled, not like you want to "fix" her so she stops yelling at you.

It's not all medical, of course. It sounds like work keeps you out of the house a lot. Taking care of young kids can be really hard. You say you take the kids for a few hours on a weekend and look at that as a break. For her, it's not a break. If she's home with them all week during the day and most of the night and most of the weekend, that's a huge burden. I get it, you're working, too, but it's a different kind of exhaustion. Make sure she gets some time for herself, and make sure she uses that time to really relax. If she gets a few hours alone but uses that time to run errands for the family, that doesn't count. Make sure she does something that is totally for her own mental well-being. It goes a long way. Also, if you have family or a trusted babysitter who can take the kids overnight once in a while so you and your wife can go out and enjoy a nice dinner date alone, that also works wonders in my experience.

Women in general are emotional and irrational and all that, but sometimes it goes beyond just normal female stuff. It sounds to me like it could very well be the case that your wife has some form of depression. She needs some kind of help, and she's not going to be able to get it herself. She needs you to help her. Talking back about making coffee, and then bringing it up again later to tell her how out of line she was, is just making the problem worse. It doesn't matter if you have the facts on your side, it was never really about the coffee or the dishwasher in the first place. You have to look past the "stuff" that she seems to be getting upset about and figure out what she's really upset about. :shrug:
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

 
'Ignoratio Elenchi said:
It doesn't matter if you have the facts on your side, it was never really about the coffee or the dishwasher in the first place. You have to look past the "stuff" that she seems to be getting upset about and figure out what she's really upset about. :shrug:
Click to expand...
I meant to include something like this. All of these minor arguments are likely just symptoms of the real cause: whatever the unmet needs that she has are. That is what needs to be determined (and can be hard for any of us to even understand individually unless we take the time to figure it out, and who the hell feels like doing that with so much else going on). Once that is addressed, then you can deal with it.
 
This sounds somewhat familiar. I put up with a verbally abusive wife for a few years before I got the #### out of town. Nothing was ever her fault...I was to blame to everything.

Best of luck dealing with this.

 
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