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Is the OBJ/Norman issue a positive or negative for Julio? Or does it not make any difference?

I was trying to think about this as well. As professional as Norman is, he did seem a little rattled after the game (and rightfully so). I kind of think its a slight negative, but not much of one.

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It's more about Ryan than the matchup Julio potentially has against Norman, but that horse was beaten death before the week 14 matchup.

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Is the OBJ/Norman issue a positive or negative for Julio? Or does it not make any difference?

I was trying to think about this as well. As professional as Norman is, he did seem a little rattled after the game (and rightfully so). I kind of think its a slight negative, but not much of one.

Professional? He's great at his job but the guy incessantly chirps to the media about players on other teams. It may be part of his process but he comes off as a huge blowhard. It is not what I view as being professional.

Everyone is getting on OBJ for losing his mind last week, and deservedly so, but at least OBJ is generally respectful publicly. He comes off as more of a pro in the public space than Norman and by a wide margin. On the field, well we have no idea what really is going on, but Norman at least doesn't seem to do as much stupid #### as OBJ has this season (the punch v Buffalo and what happened last week do not reflect well on him).

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

Shanahan just started there this year. Julio's numbers in terms of TD's vs Yards is pretty consistent to his pre-shanahan years so I don't think this is due to Kyle.

Julio has only had more then 8 TD's ONCE in his 5 year career.

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

Shanahan just started there this year. Julio's numbers in terms of TD's vs Yards is pretty consistent to his pre-shanahan years so I don't think this is due to Kyle.

Julio has only had more then 8 TD's ONCE in his 5 year career.

The problem is Matt Ryan does not look his way in the end zone. Part of why he has not become an elite QB. He rather throw to an old and covered Roddy White.

You cant knock a guy who catches over 100 passes for not scoring if not given more than short routes.

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

Shanahan just started there this year. Julio's numbers in terms of TD's vs Yards is pretty consistent to his pre-shanahan years so I don't think this is due to Kyle.

Julio has only had more then 8 TD's ONCE in his 5 year career.

The problem is Matt Ryan does not look his way in the end zone. Part of why he has not become an elite QB. He rather throw to an old and covered Roddy White.

You cant knock a guy who catches over 100 passes for not scoring if not given more than short routes.

Pretty sure that read progression falls under the scope of the offensive scheme.

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anyone have faith he gets the better of Norman this week?

Maybe it will be a mistake, but I am actually thinking of benching Julio and starting Watkins and Maclin, just based on their matchups. .

Julio is a stud, but Ryan is just so maddening and inconsistent, he makes it so you can't trust Julio. Throw in the whole lack of TDs, I am going against the "never bench your studs" call and probably sitting him down this week.

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anyone have faith he gets the better of Norman this week?

I almost benched Antonio Brown last week, came to my senses but seriously considered it. I don't have as much faith in Julio as Brown, due to the offense, but it's tough to bench him in the championship week. That said, I don't expect more than the 80+ yards he got a few weeks ago. Hopefully he gets a td

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With Martavis with a great matchup (flexing for now) and Baldwin on fire...Ive thought of letting Julio sit one out...but just can't do it for the likes of the ?s I have at RB or the inconsistency of Mike Evans.

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I would feel so crappy benching him and he blows up for 30 points and I lose the championship, that alone is making me start him, if I lose because norman shuts him down so be it.

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I would feel so crappy benching him and he blows up for 30 points and I lose the championship, that alone is making me start him, if I lose because norman shuts him down so be it.

I think Julio will be in the slot quite a bit

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

Who did you pass on for him? He's out performed everyone except Antonio and OBJ. Everyone else around his ADP has done worse (Calvin, Dez, Green, DT).

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ODB dropped a 70 yard TD. Open by 5 yards. Then scored a TD and walked right over Norman's face. Norman can be beat. Julio is in my lineup.

ODB is dead. OBJ is deadly fast/agile in out of breaks. Not even Julio has speed like OBJ in that department. Last 3 times norman has shut down julio, im starting julio because i dont have 3 better options, but I am not expecting much.

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He's got 70-80 yards 2 out of the last 3 vs Norman. So not pure shut down. No TD's though. Just saying I've seen Sherman beat multiple times, Revis and now Norman. Nobody is going to sit Julio in a season long league SuperBowl. Nobody. Not a DFS play - I get it. So start and pray if you made it this far.

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He's got 70-80 yards 2 out of the last 3 vs Norman. So not pure shut down. No TD's though. Just saying I've seen Sherman beat multiple times, Revis and now Norman. Nobody is going to sit Julio in a season long league SuperBowl. Nobody. Not a DFS play - I get it. So start and pray if you made it this far.

His yards were not vs Norman. As mentioned 100 times, he plays out of the slot enough that he will get his 70-80 yards and 7 catches. But comparing his quicks with OBJ which Norman couldn't handle is way off.

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He's got 70-80 yards 2 out of the last 3 vs Norman. So not pure shut down. No TD's though. Just saying I've seen Sherman beat multiple times, Revis and now Norman. Nobody is going to sit Julio in a season long league SuperBowl. Nobody. Not a DFS play - I get it. So start and pray if you made it this far.

I am thinking of benching him over Baldwin and Michael Floyd. I see those guys all having about the same numbers

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

Who did you pass on for him? He's out performed everyone except Antonio and OBJ. Everyone else around his ADP has done worse (Calvin, Dez, Green, DT).

Not sure how it is relevant because it is possible for Calvin, Dez, Green, Demaryius and Julio to all be disappointing. We all thought he was going to blow the doors off this season. He has good yardage numbers and if your are in a PPR then his reception numbers are awesome, in standard scoring he has been meh since week 3.

In my league he was the third WR off the board (Antonio and Dez), I took OBJ as the fourth WR off the board. I traded for Julio later in the year (gave up Ingram and Crabtree) figuring, like many people in here, that eventually the TD numbers would correct.

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He's got 70-80 yards 2 out of the last 3 vs Norman. So not pure shut down. No TD's though. Just saying I've seen Sherman beat multiple times, Revis and now Norman. Nobody is going to sit Julio in a season long league SuperBowl. Nobody. Not a DFS play - I get it. So start and pray if you made it this far.

His yards were not vs Norman. As mentioned 100 times, he plays out of the slot enough that he will get his 70-80 yards and 7 catches. But comparing his quicks with OBJ which Norman couldn't handle is way off.

Why does that matter? Production is what matters. Who cares if he doesn't get a lot against Norman, so long as he does against other corners?

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He's got 70-80 yards 2 out of the last 3 vs Norman. So not pure shut down. No TD's though. Just saying I've seen Sherman beat multiple times, Revis and now Norman. Nobody is going to sit Julio in a season long league SuperBowl. Nobody. Not a DFS play - I get it. So start and pray if you made it this far.

His yards were not vs Norman. As mentioned 100 times, he plays out of the slot enough that he will get his 70-80 yards and 7 catches. But comparing his quicks with OBJ which Norman couldn't handle is way off.

Why does that matter? Production is what matters. Who cares if he doesn't get a lot against Norman, so long as he does against other corners?

It doesn't, but don't say "vs Norman" because that's misleading for those that don't know.

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

:lmao:

You're still trying to sell this narrative? Go look at the track record of guys like Linehan and Haley- they both have multiple seasons of their leading WR having low TD totals. Heck, Calvin only had 5 TDs twice under Linehan, including the season when he broke the record for receiving yards. Meanwhile, Julio is among the league leaders this year in both red zone targets and percentage of team red zone targets (higher than Brown in both).

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You're still trying to sell this narrative? Go look at the track record of guys like Linehan and Haley- they both have multiple seasons of their leading WR having low TD totals. Heck, Calvin only had 5 TDs twice under Linehan, including the season when he broke the record for receiving yards. Meanwhile, Julio is among the league leaders this year in both red zone targets and percentage of team red zone targets (higher than Brown in both).

:lmao:

Remind me again how many times each coordinator has had a WR break double digit TDs?

You can talk all you want about percentage of what happens where but the results favor my position.

Edited by Chaka

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

Who did you pass on for him? He's out performed everyone except Antonio and OBJ. Everyone else around his ADP has done worse (Calvin, Dez, Green, DT).

Not sure how it is relevant because it is possible for Calvin, Dez, Green, Demaryius and Julio to all be disappointing. We all thought he was going to blow the doors off this season. He has good yardage numbers and if your are in a PPR then his reception numbers are awesome, in standard scoring he has been meh since week 3.

In my league he was the third WR off the board (Antonio and Dez), I took OBJ as the fourth WR off the board. I traded for Julio later in the year (gave up Ingram and Crabtree) figuring, like many people in here, that eventually the TD numbers would correct.

My league awards 1 pt per 3 receptions - so, not quite a ppr league. Julio is the #3 wr behind ODB and AB, and not by very much. I wouldn't call him a disappointment at all this year. I also think you got the best end of the trade you described.

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All those targets & receptions....having only 7 TDs just seems, I dunno...inadequate.

Agreed. The receptions mean nothing in my league and yards are very nice but despite a nice game vs Jax he has been mid-tier #2 WR since week 3. That is a long time for one of the best WRs in the game, but I am sure Shanahan's genius with WRs will shine through this week.

Story of Julio's life though. Guy has 33 TDs in 5 seasons. He's the NFC's Andre Johnson. Tons of targets, tons of consistency, tons of yards, low touchdowns.

I think this is more of a product of system than talent. Despite protestations otherwise Kyle Shanahan (as well as his father and his father's protege Gary Kubiak) has a track record that supports the notion of lots of targets, receptions and yards but low TD numbers. I regret letting this thread convince me that things would turn out differently with a transcendent talent like Julio.

IMO put a guy like Julio under Todd Haley (or Scott Linehan most years) and he puts up crazy pinball numbers.

Shanahan just started there this year. Julio's numbers in terms of TD's vs Yards is pretty consistent to his pre-shanahan years so I don't think this is due to Kyle.

Julio has only had more then 8 TD's ONCE in his 5 year career.

The problem is Matt Ryan does not look his way in the end zone. Part of why he has not become an elite QB. He rather throw to an old and covered Roddy White.

You cant knock a guy who catches over 100 passes for not scoring if not given more than short routes.

I believe his red zone target conversion rate for his career is pretty crummy in the limited red zone chances he's gotten too.

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They just played two weeks ago. I have to believe that the ATL staff will at least try to focus on what worked (and what didn't) and game plan accordingly.

Julio owner, and no even thinking about benching him. As mentioned in the Gurley thread... if I lose because my studs had a tough match-up I can live with that... if I lose because my studs are blowing up on my bench, well that's a different kind of pain.

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You're still trying to sell this narrative? Go look at the track record of guys like Linehan and Haley- they both have multiple seasons of their leading WR having low TD totals. Heck, Calvin only had 5 TDs twice under Linehan, including the season when he broke the record for receiving yards. Meanwhile, Julio is among the league leaders this year in both red zone targets and percentage of team red zone targets (higher than Brown in both).

:lmao:

Remind me again how many times each coordinator has had a WR break double digit TDs?

You can talk all you want about percentage of what happens where but the results favor my position.

Calvin Johnson set the record for receiving yards in a season where he had over 200 targets but ended up with only 5 TDs- his OC is a guy you are somehow holding up as the gold standard for feeding their #1 WR in the red zone? The other is a guy who has targeted his stud WR less than Julio in the red zone this year, yet somehow he'd be better off with him calling the plays? :loco:

Your position has never resembled reality. Kyle Shanahan targets his #1 WR in the red zone plenty, the numbers are clear as day. Ryan has sucked in those situations this year, and Julio has zero TDs on passes thrown over 20 yards in the air. That is why he doesn't have more TDs this season, it has nothing to do with your fantasy of Shanny not targeting him in the red zone.

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anyone have faith he gets the better of Norman this week?

Maybe it will be a mistake, but I am actually thinking of benching Julio and starting Watkins and Maclin, just based on their matchups. .

Julio is a stud, but Ryan is just so maddening and inconsistent, he makes it so you can't trust Julio. Throw in the whole lack of TDs, I am going against the "never bench your studs" call and probably sitting him down this week.

Listening to XM radio I heard that the Cowboys have given up 2 TDs all year to outside receivers. I am worried about Julio but not so sure I would see Watkins as that great of a start over him.

Edited by lazyike

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anyone have faith he gets the better of Norman this week?

Maybe it will be a mistake, but I am actually thinking of benching Julio and starting Watkins and Maclin, just based on their matchups. .

Julio is a stud, but Ryan is just so maddening and inconsistent, he makes it so you can't trust Julio. Throw in the whole lack of TDs, I am going against the "never bench your studs" call and probably sitting him down this week.

Listening to XM radio I heard that the Cowboys have given up 2 TDs all year to outside receivers. I am worried about Julio but not so sure I would see Watkins as that great of a start over him.

I'm starting them both over AJ Green. Good luck to all!

Edited by zed2283

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Your position has never resembled reality. Kyle Shanahan targets his #1 WR in the red zone plenty, the numbers are clear as day. Ryan has sucked in those situations this year, and Julio has zero TDs on passes thrown over 20 yards in the air. That is why he doesn't have more TDs this season, it has nothing to do with your fantasy of Shanny not targeting him in the red zone.

That is an interesting contention considering the reality is that Linehan has coached a WR to 10 or more TDs 7 times in 13 seasons and Haley has done it 6 times in 8 seasons (and will likely produce another one this year) while Kyle Shanahan has done it 0 times in 8 seasons. That is complete, unvarnished reality. He consistently gives his #1 WR tons of targets and they consistently don't score a lot of TDs (while his RBs seem to score plenty). Not sure why that seems to bother you, I agree with most of your position (targets and yards) but my point is absolutely correct and supported by undeniable fact. And Calvin having a bad TD season (while ignoring that he had 3 of his 4 career double digit TD seasons under Linehan) doesn't change that fact.

I hope Julio goes bonkers during the last two weeks of the season and puts up multiple TDs finally getting Shanahan off the schneid but it hasn't happened yet and I'm not optimistic that it will.

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Your position has never resembled reality. Kyle Shanahan targets his #1 WR in the red zone plenty, the numbers are clear as day. Ryan has sucked in those situations this year, and Julio has zero TDs on passes thrown over 20 yards in the air. That is why he doesn't have more TDs this season, it has nothing to do with your fantasy of Shanny not targeting him in the red zone.

That is an interesting contention considering the reality is that Linehan has coached a WR to 10 or more TDs 7 times in 13 seasons and Haley has done it 6 times in 8 seasons (and will likely produce another one this year) while Kyle Shanahan has done it 0 times in 8 seasons. That is complete, unvarnished reality. He consistently gives his #1 WR tons of targets and they consistently don't score a lot of TDs (while his RBs seem to score plenty). Not sure why that seems to bother you, I agree with most of your position (targets and yards) but my point is absolutely correct and supported by undeniable fact. And Calvin having a bad TD season (while ignoring that he had 3 of his 4 career double digit TD seasons under Linehan) doesn't change that fact.

I hope Julio goes bonkers during the last two weeks of the season and puts up multiple TDs finally getting Shanahan off the schneid but it hasn't happened yet and I'm not optimistic that it will.

Have you ever stopped to think about the situations? I don't consider it a huge accomplishment that Todd Haley was able to coax Kurt Warner to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, and Ben Roethlisberger to Antonio Brown, into 10 TD seasons. Likewise for Scott Linehan- having guys like Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Calvin Johnson, and Dez Bryant makes things a tad easier. Meanwhile, you hold it against Shanahan that he couldn't get Rex Grossman to connect for 10 TDs to Jabar Gaffney? It shouldn't be surprising that Brian Hoyer to Andrew Hawkins didn't result in double digit scores either.

That's why context matters. The only WR Shanny has had before this year that is remotely comparable is Andre Johnson. No, he didn't hit your magical 10 TD number with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels throwing to him, but I already pointed out that he did produce his two best fantasy seasons, averaged 3.5 more TDs per season, and had a much higher percentage of targets, receptions, and TDs in the red zone under Shanny than he had under all of the other OCs he's played for. Julio probably won't hit your magical 10 TD either this year, and I'm sure if he doesn't score today you'll blame Shanny instead of the all-pro covering him or his QB being 28th in passer rating in the red zone this season. The reality is that he's being targeted in the red zone more than ever in his career, and more than your gold standard OCs are targeting their #1 guys this season.

Your narrative that Shanny abandons his #1 WRs in the red zone is patently false, always has been.

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Just no defending him. Only things that can tame him is Ryan sucking and/or play calling.

This was awesome today.

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Sorry to all owners who traded him because of his super bowl matchup. Total stud as he has been all year.

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Have you ever stopped to think about the situations? I don't consider it a huge accomplishment that Todd Haley was able to coax Kurt Warner to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, and Ben Roethlisberger to Antonio Brown, into 10 TD seasons. Likewise for Scott Linehan- having guys like Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Calvin Johnson, and Dez Bryant makes things a tad easier. Meanwhile, you hold it against Shanahan that he couldn't get Rex Grossman to connect for 10 TDs to Jabar Gaffney? It shouldn't be surprising that Brian Hoyer to Andrew Hawkins didn't result in double digit scores either.

That's why context matters. The only WR Shanny has had before this year that is remotely comparable is Andre Johnson. No, he didn't hit your magical 10 TD number with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels throwing to him, but I already pointed out that he did produce his two best fantasy seasons, averaged 3.5 more TDs per season, and had a much higher percentage of targets, receptions, and TDs in the red zone under Shanny than he had under all of the other OCs he's played for. Julio probably won't hit your magical 10 TD either this year, and I'm sure if he doesn't score today you'll blame Shanny instead of the all-pro covering him or his QB being 28th in passer rating in the red zone this season. The reality is that he's being targeted in the red zone more than ever in his career, and more than your gold standard OCs are targeting their #1 guys this season.

Your narrative that Shanny abandons his #1 WRs in the red zone is patently false, always has been.

I absolutely agree that finally Julio is getting more opportunities in the red zone under Shanahan than he has in the past, still not converting on them but at least more opportunities are there. However it actually hasn't been patently false and I presented those numbers maybe 10-20 pages ago and am not going to look them up again right now. It may not have been as severe of a disparity as I am sure interpretations of my posts have implied but it is absolutely true.

Andre Johnson actually had his best fantasy season in 2007 under Mike Sherman but it was cut short after 9 games.

I'm gonna say that Schaub to Andre Johnson and Matt Ryan to Julio Jones is better than Cassel to Bowe or Gus Frerotte to Chris Chambers and Robert Griffin to Pierre Garcon is at least on par with the latter pairs.

And 10 TDs isn't magical but double digit TD potential is pretty darn important when ranking the top WRs in standard scoring leagues.

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Never benched this guy, or even thought of it.

AR15 and JJ bailed me out today when the rest of my team was ho hum. Thanks JJ!!

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Have you ever stopped to think about the situations? I don't consider it a huge accomplishment that Todd Haley was able to coax Kurt Warner to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, and Ben Roethlisberger to Antonio Brown, into 10 TD seasons. Likewise for Scott Linehan- having guys like Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Calvin Johnson, and Dez Bryant makes things a tad easier. Meanwhile, you hold it against Shanahan that he couldn't get Rex Grossman to connect for 10 TDs to Jabar Gaffney? It shouldn't be surprising that Brian Hoyer to Andrew Hawkins didn't result in double digit scores either.

That's why context matters. The only WR Shanny has had before this year that is remotely comparable is Andre Johnson. No, he didn't hit your magical 10 TD number with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels throwing to him, but I already pointed out that he did produce his two best fantasy seasons, averaged 3.5 more TDs per season, and had a much higher percentage of targets, receptions, and TDs in the red zone under Shanny than he had under all of the other OCs he's played for. Julio probably won't hit your magical 10 TD either this year, and I'm sure if he doesn't score today you'll blame Shanny instead of the all-pro covering him or his QB being 28th in passer rating in the red zone this season. The reality is that he's being targeted in the red zone more than ever in his career, and more than your gold standard OCs are targeting their #1 guys this season.

Your narrative that Shanny abandons his #1 WRs in the red zone is patently false, always has been.

I absolutely agree that finally Julio is getting more opportunities in the red zone under Shanahan than he has in the past, still not converting on them but at least more opportunities are there. However it actually hasn't been patently false and I presented those numbers maybe 10-20 pages ago and am not going to look them up again right now. It may not have been as severe of a disparity as I am sure interpretations of my posts have implied but it is absolutely true.

Andre Johnson actually had his best fantasy season in 2007 under Mike Sherman but it was cut short after 9 games.

I'm gonna say that Schaub to Andre Johnson and Matt Ryan to Julio Jones is better than Cassel to Bowe or Gus Frerotte to Chris Chambers and Robert Griffin to Pierre Garcon is at least on par with the latter pairs.

And 10 TDs isn't magical but double digit TD potential is pretty darn important when ranking the top WRs in standard scoring leagues.

Just a big fat :lmao: .

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Have you ever stopped to think about the situations? I don't consider it a huge accomplishment that Todd Haley was able to coax Kurt Warner to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, and Ben Roethlisberger to Antonio Brown, into 10 TD seasons. Likewise for Scott Linehan- having guys like Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Calvin Johnson, and Dez Bryant makes things a tad easier. Meanwhile, you hold it against Shanahan that he couldn't get Rex Grossman to connect for 10 TDs to Jabar Gaffney? It shouldn't be surprising that Brian Hoyer to Andrew Hawkins didn't result in double digit scores either.

That's why context matters. The only WR Shanny has had before this year that is remotely comparable is Andre Johnson. No, he didn't hit your magical 10 TD number with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels throwing to him, but I already pointed out that he did produce his two best fantasy seasons, averaged 3.5 more TDs per season, and had a much higher percentage of targets, receptions, and TDs in the red zone under Shanny than he had under all of the other OCs he's played for. Julio probably won't hit your magical 10 TD either this year, and I'm sure if he doesn't score today you'll blame Shanny instead of the all-pro covering him or his QB being 28th in passer rating in the red zone this season. The reality is that he's being targeted in the red zone more than ever in his career, and more than your gold standard OCs are targeting their #1 guys this season.

Your narrative that Shanny abandons his #1 WRs in the red zone is patently false, always has been.

I absolutely agree that finally Julio is getting more opportunities in the red zone under Shanahan than he has in the past, still not converting on them but at least more opportunities are there. However it actually hasn't been patently false and I presented those numbers maybe 10-20 pages ago and am not going to look them up again right now. It may not have been as severe of a disparity as I am sure interpretations of my posts have implied but it is absolutely true.

Andre Johnson actually had his best fantasy season in 2007 under Mike Sherman but it was cut short after 9 games.

I'm gonna say that Schaub to Andre Johnson and Matt Ryan to Julio Jones is better than Cassel to Bowe or Gus Frerotte to Chris Chambers and Robert Griffin to Pierre Garcon is at least on par with the latter pairs.

And 10 TDs isn't magical but double digit TD potential is pretty darn important when ranking the top WRs in standard scoring leagues.

You know Julio has 9 TDs (8 receiving and 1 fumble recovery) with one week left to play, right? Looks like double digit TD potential to me.

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People are talking about how Norman got in Beckhams head last week, it looked like Norman was a scared little kid guarding the grown man that is Julio.

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As a Julio owner with a 1st Round Bye, I'm actually rooting for him to have a modest showing against Carolina on the road this week. Then the offense makes the proper adjustments so he can vindicate himself against Norman at home in Week 16... provided I'm fortunate enough to make it to the finals in Week 16.

But hey that's just my selfish agenda. Doesn't help those teams who need him this week. Anyone else rolling with this thought process? :)

Mission... accomplished.

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