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Julian Edelman going forward (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Louisville Slugger
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think this year Edelman had more value in NE than he might elsewhere. The Pats much of the season had a void at TE and their other WRs were hurt a lot and had very limited experience.
Put another way, on another team he might only get 40-50 receptions if he were to be a third receiver. At 10 yards a pop, he might settle into a 400-600 a year guy. Not sure that is worth huge money.
At this point, I think NE will retain him, as how many receiving options can they take away from Brady and expect to have a cohesive offense?
Put another way, on another team he might only get 40-50 receptions if he were to be a third receiver. At 10 yards a pop, he might settle into a 400-600 a year guy. Not sure that is worth huge money.
At this point, I think NE will retain him, as how many receiving options can they take away from Brady and expect to have a cohesive offense?
Boston
Footballguy
I disagree with that projection (but not the point of big money)...with Edelman it's all about health...when he is on the field he is productive...while he's probably not a great fit for a bad team he would put up excellent numbers in an offense like the Saints, Seahawks, Falcons or Bears...IMO he's the type of WR that a team this is close can add and get excellent production from (as well as upgrading their special teams)...in the scenario he's worth solid (but not huge) money...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
To clarify, I think Edelman has more value to NE than to other teams. I don't see him getting 150+ targets on another team. Of course he would be a decent option on a pass happy team, but then so would a lot of players if they got a lot of playing time. He did great for the Pats, but even if he stayed in NE I think his targets would drop off with better health to other players. And there will always be injury concerns with Edelman.
Boston
Footballguy
If he stays in New England I see a few years of this type of production...he has earned Brady's trust and has carved out his role...if you look at Patriot Wr/Te's once they get settled in and Brady is comfortable with them their #'s don't vary too wildly...the injury concern is very valid which is why you need to be careful with the $ you give him...that being said the Pats gave Amendola a nice chunk of change and his injury-history was well known...
One other thing about Edelman...he has a chance to earn himself some more $...if the Pats go on a playoff run and he is getting 10 receptions a game he is not going to hurt his earning power...
People used to say the same thing about Welker and someone signed him away. Considering the Pats have Amendola I also don't think he has more value to them than another team since a healthy Amendola can do the same things. If a guy like Mcdaniels lands in Cleveland I'd argue Edelman would have lot more value to them since they actually need another WR to pair with Gordon.
In the past, they played two TEs more than most teams (ever) do. This year when Gronk was there they looked very good. Without, still pretty good. I know they used to draft TEs often, but to me they are fine, normal, now.Boston said:
Pettigrew is my fave FA TE
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
A lot of these reasons why the Patriots have to keep Edelman were said for the guy he replaced too. There's only one player that the Patriots "have" to have.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Edelman would not have had nearly as many targets/catches if Gronk, Vereen, and Amendola were healthy all year. Probably to the point where his stats would barely (if at all) be rosterable for fantasy teams.
That said, he still has decent value heading into next year because those guys seem to never be on the field at the same time.
When Gronk got hurt, Edelman's value went up, just like it went up when Amendola and Vereen went out right away.
But really, he is like a 4th or 5th option when everyone is healthy there.
That said, he still has decent value heading into next year because those guys seem to never be on the field at the same time.
When Gronk got hurt, Edelman's value went up, just like it went up when Amendola and Vereen went out right away.
But really, he is like a 4th or 5th option when everyone is healthy there.
Rolling_akg
Footballguy
I see alot of reference to $$. How much u guys thinking it takes to keep him. My gut says it should be worth it. Welker disnt exactly get a ton last yr. Has to be less than that right?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
As I mentioned in the Pats offseason thread, I don't see Edelman garnering a contract that big or that long. He was force fed the ball and put up modest per catch and per target numbers this year. He was the only healthy receiver week in and week out in NE. What other team would give him 150-160 targets? None that I can see. IMO, he's more of a WR3 and could be a team's fourth receiving option. Plus he had one healthy year out of 5.
Even if he stayed in NE, the Pats will probably have another WR or TE to contend with, as well as Amendola, Gronk, and Vereen. So he could go to the back of the pack even if he stuck around. I would guess he might find a home at 3 years for $10-12M with $5 million guaranteed. The NFL just doesn't pay slot receivers much money.
Speculation of Amendola release http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000317913/article/danny-amendola-could-be-cap-casualty-for-patriots
Not as many sure, but he would have had his share.
Last offseason, summer, I'm remembering a nice smokescreen by the Pats. Brady was all excited on Edelman's first day and it seemed everyone wrote about that. From that point forward, Edelman didn't seem like much and the attention was all about the rookies-even from reporters that were at practices.
Brady likes him. If he's not to expensive, I figure that holds some(some) weight.
The rookies did not in anyway show that they can definitely be counted on for large roles next year. Most didn't even develop enough. This summer many of us are going to be repeating the very same sentences one year later. It would seem easier if KT, Boyce, or Dobson emerged as a goto target Brady could rely upon. It just doesn't seem more clear now.
False Start
Footballguy
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Patriots were unable to reach a deal with free agent Julian Edelman on Tuesday, and that he'll reach the open market.
NFL Network reported earlier Tuesday that the Pats made Edelman a three-year offer, but it apparently wasn't to his liking. Despite Edelman's importance in 2013, he was never a player the Patriots were going to overpay for. He's a 5-foot-10, 198-pound slot receiver with an injury history. It's still possible Edelman ends up back in New England. He's a better fit for the Patriots than anyone else.
NFL Network reported earlier Tuesday that the Pats made Edelman a three-year offer, but it apparently wasn't to his liking. Despite Edelman's importance in 2013, he was never a player the Patriots were going to overpay for. He's a 5-foot-10, 198-pound slot receiver with an injury history. It's still possible Edelman ends up back in New England. He's a better fit for the Patriots than anyone else.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Sounds like he won't be a Patriot then. Saying on the radio it was reportedly a 3 year 14 million offer with 7 guaranteed. Incentives that could raise it to 21 million. But it was take it or leave it and it was gonna be pulled at 4 pm.
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I always though the biggest problem the Patriots would face in signing him was they would offer less then what they paid Amendola and that would not sit will with Edelman.
I know some think Edelman is more valuable to NE than any other team and that might prove to be true. Some think all things being equal Edelman would want to stay in NE and this is were I'm not so sure. I had read last off season he was not happy he was not given a chance to replace Welker, instead watching them pay Amendola while he had to settle for league minimum deal. I'm sure he enjoys his relationship with Brady and is to some degree thankful to NE for developing him but if I'm him and all things were equal I'd leave unless they paid him at least as much as they paid Amendola.
cstu
Footballguy
Does Edelman really think he's going to get more than that elsewhere? Maybe he should look at Wes Welker's contract.
Bamac
Footballguy
His agent has had three days to (legally) talk to other teams. If Edelman turned down the offer and doesn't get more elsewhere, he'd better get new representation.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Probably so. But even though the slot is a key piece of the Pats offense, i really think its plug and play for them. They seem to put a strict monetary value on the position and they refuse to go over it.
Well if he's looking at Welker's deal he'd probably draw the same conclusion I did which is 2 years with $12 million fully guaranteed beats the heck out of 3 years for 14 million with only 7 guaranteed.
cstu
Footballguy
He's not Wes Welker.
Besides that, 7M guaranteed almost assures him of it being a two year deal - I assume 4, 5, 5 so he'd effectively only cost the Pats $2M to keep in 2015. 2 year/$9M vs. what a much better Wes Welker got.
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False Start
Footballguy
How quick people forget Amendola is still rostered. While he is always hurt, you take your chances on him as your slot if you cant resign Edelman. He is a good receiver when he plays. I think they need another TE and a bigger outside WR in free agency or the draft.
Yea well some poster named CSTU brought him up in this thread.
And no he's not Welker, he's younger and more versatile.
False Start
Footballguy
Yes and your whole spill is pretty weak. He's played in two great systems with two future HOF QB's. When he played for the Dolphins it was another story.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Welker was a good player before he got to NE, it's why they wanted him. But producing big time stats out of the slot position is very much a scheme and QB related position.
Boston
Footballguy
I would be careful throwing around the term "product of the system" in such a derogatory fashion when it comes to the Pats...the Pats have had a ton of WRs who have not been able to grasp that system...there are zero guarantees when it comes to a new WR joining the Pats...part of being successful with the Pats is being able to play within that system...
How many of those failed WR's were slot guys?
Edelman is probably the least talented 100 catch receiver I've ever seen. Welker put up slot numbers like never before seen. It's all a product of the system and why the Pats wisely would not break the bank for either of these guys. Good players, really good slot guys, but that's not valued in the NFL like an outside receiver.
False Start
Footballguy
I thought the deal that Patriots offered him was nice, he has his injury risks too.
Boston
Footballguy
Not saying they should break the bank for him...his injury history is well-documented and while I think he's a very good player he's not all-world ...yet if you let him go, bring in a WR who can't pick up the system and Dobson's injury woes continue you could be looking at a WR unit worse than last year's and that's not good (as well as taking a step back on punt returns)...the Pats need to be real careful here because while they struck lightning with Edelman replacing Welker (let's also remember that Edelman had three years learning the system as well) there is no guarantee that will happen again...
The Claymaker
Footballguy
I have never understood the disrespect some players get on these boards. I am not saying I think Edelman is a stud, but he is a very good player. He is consistent and someone Brady was always looking for and he is also a very good return man. I think his best fit is NE but no doubt he could be successful in that role on several teams. I also always liked that he was a hard nosed type player.
was that in the three games he started for Miami? or the one where he was active for San Diego?
I'm not sure I'm following your point?
Are you trying to argue with my comment that Welker played well in Miami by referencing his starts? Are you trying to argue with my comment that Welker was good in Miami by using his stats? Please tell me because I can't quite figure out what your point is exactly.
flapgreen
Footballguy
As bad as their WRs are now, it would be a mistake letting Edelman walk, too. Letting Welker walk was also a mistake that hurt them. The Pat's arrogance has hurt them in recent years. They have missed out on some possible championships by never giving in to re-signing their own guys for a competitive amount and then passing it off as no one player is bigger than the team.
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This is not your first day here, don't give me that. Welker was not "all that" in Miami by any stretch. His career didn't take off til he got to NE.
They didn't give him a chance to beat out Booker or Chambers. They tendered him with the second lowest offer and the Pats matched it.
I was seriously trying to ask because it sounded like you did not know what you were talking about and I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Bringing up his starts in Miami just makes you look like uninformed.
He's a slot receiver and for a lot of NFL teams those guys don't start. The year Welker led the Dolphins in catches they started a two TE set most games. You know many teams that have a base starting offensive package of 2 TE's and 3 WR's? I don't.
He did not get a chance to beat out Chambers or Booker because he's a slot receiver or almost strictly a player who works the middle of the field. He's not an outside receiver and never has been, it's even one of the reasons NE liked Amendola as they thought he gave them more flexibility in that he could play on the outside.
Other than that Bill Bellichick paid a second and 7th rounder for him. I mean if he had just had the wherewithal to look up his starts like you did he'd never have dreamed of paying that price.
As for his stats part of that had to do with he was a young player and still learning. The other part is the point I've been trying to express is that getting big time stats out a slot receiver is very much scheme and QB related.
Nice job working around and coming back to the same stuff.menobrown said:
He wasn't the best WR on the Dolphins. They weren't sorry to let him go until he did well with the Pats the next year.
If slot WRs don't start then how do you explain that he has 94 starts?
Yes he was tendered as a 2nd round pick but this was the lowest they could tender him. The Dolphins wanted to move Welker.
BB loved his attitude and many made jokes about Welker kicking or some trickery at some point. He had one FG and one XP to his credit then.
He was in no way a polished WR or the precise route runner he would become.
They wanted to move him
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/10/17/patriots_pounced_fast_to_grab_welker/?page=full
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