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Charles Clay (1 Viewer)
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Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
On behalf of all desperate Gates owners, 
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
Fasano seems to be limited mainly to the RZ these days. Another passing option is definitely needed vs NE so I would suspect they use him more after last week's success. On a dynasty note; Fasano's a FA next year who I doubt is resigned, so he may be a low end stash in deeper leagues(at least until it's known if Miami upgrades the position thru FA/draft).
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I think his best comp is Fred Davis, and he looks super fluid. He's also gotten downfield and made plays (14 y/r, 5 TDs on 29 catches) in limited opportunities.
He may not be consistent for the rest of this year, and he's struggled with some drops, but IMO he's a great guy to own for dynasty.
He may not be consistent for the rest of this year, and he's struggled with some drops, but IMO he's a great guy to own for dynasty.
Instinctive
Footballguy
saintfool
Dead sexy
didn't they draft a pass catching TE this past year?
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
They drafted Egnew from Missouri but he's been inactive so far.Edited to add: He was a 3rd round pick so they probably wouldn't try to upgrade through the draft unless a steal fell in their lap. With their lack of talent at WR I would hope/think that getting Tannehill a top receiver is the top priority. We'll see, I guess. Either way I honestly think that Clay is more likely their option(650K next year) vs Fasano(3.5M in final yr).
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shadyridr
Footballguy
On behalf of all desperate Gates owners,
Seriously, I cant believe the depths Im going to to find a cheap TE off waivers
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Miami let Gaffney go.
Rishard Mathews played 22 snaps to Marlon Moore's 6...they are only carrying 4 WRs right now on the roster.
Hartline and Bess are secondary WRs not frontline #1 types
Fasano has hands of stone
-Look for Clay to be involved more over the coming weeks but I wouldn't want to "have" to start him. Like him in dynasty though.
Rishard Mathews played 22 snaps to Marlon Moore's 6...they are only carrying 4 WRs right now on the roster.
Hartline and Bess are secondary WRs not frontline #1 types
Fasano has hands of stone
-Look for Clay to be involved more over the coming weeks but I wouldn't want to "have" to start him. Like him in dynasty though.
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
He'll never get a better opportunity than now.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Clay is to me like James Casey, someone who could thrive at FB or TE if given the right system and the right HC who knows how to use him. Miami also had plans for Keller, hard to imagine they will just completely scrap that aspect of the game plan now.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Was at the game last night, not real impressive. Miami is in big trouble right now at TE.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Bump. He has done real well in the first two weeks. Is this a trend or mirage? I really know nothing about the guy. I assumed Sims or Egnew would eventually be the guy there. With the loss of Keller I sort of figured TE would be a big black hole there and all underneath stuff would be Hartline. Anyone have some input?
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
If I had only ...Fred Davis is dead to me. I would take this guy in a heartbeat.
elguapo07
Footballguy
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
After week 1 they talked about limiting his snap count after being in on 64/70 vs Clev. With the production they got with him on 53/66 in the road win yesterday that should at least remain in the same ballpark. No currently rostered TE's are even remotely reliable, giving him value he's never had before.
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I mentioned last year that Clay is someone I liked and I've been meaning to write him up in more detail, but figured there was no hurry. Oops.
Short story... he's legit. Very similar to Fred Davis (pre PED, pre achilles). He's also a bit like Aaron Hernandez, but he's more explosive and not as quick. No reason he shouldn't continue to perform well and he's probably good enough to hold down the role.
The thing that really got my attention yesterday was the one yard rushing TD. Clay played a hybrid H-back/fullback role at Tulsa and was a good ball carrier. Picking up 3-4 rushing TDs during the season would be a nice bonus.
Short story... he's legit. Very similar to Fred Davis (pre PED, pre achilles). He's also a bit like Aaron Hernandez, but he's more explosive and not as quick. No reason he shouldn't continue to perform well and he's probably good enough to hold down the role.
The thing that really got my attention yesterday was the one yard rushing TD. Clay played a hybrid H-back/fullback role at Tulsa and was a good ball carrier. Picking up 3-4 rushing TDs during the season would be a nice bonus.
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Shutout
Footballguy
Yeah, I admit, I really knew nothing of him until this pre-season but I did read up on the use as a HB and thought that, if nothing else, it suggested some versatitlity. I still don't know enough of him to know if he is somebody who could be an important player going forward but it seems, at the least, that the Dolphins are using him enough to make him fantasy relevant and that's good enough for me.
Would love to hear more on this guy from some of you guys that have been watching him for a while.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Went ahead and tackled this...
Charles Clay is an interesting prospect and one I’ve been meaning to write up for a while. I originally had him listed as a RB and missed his best comps as a rookie. But once I plugged him in as a TE he immediately became interesting and someone I considered worth watching closely. His breakout is no surprise.
As always, we’ll start with Clay’s combine measurables and NCAA performance measure:
Receiving Skill: above average (on 82 catches)
Height: 74.88” (short for a TE)
Weight/BMI: 245/30.72 (ideal)
Speed: 4.69 (above average)
Explosion: 33.5” vert, 118” broad (average)
In this case Clay’s comps are very short TEs with solid BMIs, sub 4.70 speed, who are not explosive and who have an above average NCAA receiving score. It’s a fairly unusual combination of traits in an NFL prospect and there are only four of them in the database. Clay tops what is a pretty good list (organized by receiving metric):
--Aaron Hernandez benefitted from being the 3rd or 4th option in the Patriots offense, and most likely represents the ceiling for this type of player. I’m still trying to sort out whether it’s possible for taller players to benefit from an elite agility score – there are so few of them with clean profiles that it’s hard to isolate it – but if it turns out to be possible Hernandez had one and that would differentiate him from Clay, who is less quick, but considerably more explosive.
--David Thomas is the other player here. Since Hernandez entered the league at 20 years old it’s possible that the gap in their receiving measure should be greater than I have it currently and that he doesn’t belong on this list. Or maybe he just missed.
I don’t usually deal with ‘intangibles’ since the whole point of this exercise is to isolate talent quantitatively, but in this case I wonder if Clay’s experience as a FB/H-back at Tulsa doesn’t give him a leg up on the other players here. In addition to 189 NCAA catches for 13.5 yds/rec and 28 TDs, Clay rushed the ball 179 times for 911 yards and 10 scores.
Regardless, he’s a strong prospect – though most likely one that must occupy a particular role in order to be successful. However, as long as the Dolphins are willing to incorporate his specific skill set into the offense there’s no reason to expect he won’t continue to produce. My best guess is that his peak level of performance in the NFL will be better (and longer) than Davis’s peak, but not as strong as Hernandez’s (who was in an ideal situation).
Charles Clay is an interesting prospect and one I’ve been meaning to write up for a while. I originally had him listed as a RB and missed his best comps as a rookie. But once I plugged him in as a TE he immediately became interesting and someone I considered worth watching closely. His breakout is no surprise.
As always, we’ll start with Clay’s combine measurables and NCAA performance measure:
Receiving Skill: above average (on 82 catches)
Height: 74.88” (short for a TE)
Weight/BMI: 245/30.72 (ideal)
Speed: 4.69 (above average)
Explosion: 33.5” vert, 118” broad (average)
In this case Clay’s comps are very short TEs with solid BMIs, sub 4.70 speed, who are not explosive and who have an above average NCAA receiving score. It’s a fairly unusual combination of traits in an NFL prospect and there are only four of them in the database. Clay tops what is a pretty good list (organized by receiving metric):
- Charles Clay
- Fred Davis
- Aaron Hernandez
- David Thomas (?)
--Aaron Hernandez benefitted from being the 3rd or 4th option in the Patriots offense, and most likely represents the ceiling for this type of player. I’m still trying to sort out whether it’s possible for taller players to benefit from an elite agility score – there are so few of them with clean profiles that it’s hard to isolate it – but if it turns out to be possible Hernandez had one and that would differentiate him from Clay, who is less quick, but considerably more explosive.
--David Thomas is the other player here. Since Hernandez entered the league at 20 years old it’s possible that the gap in their receiving measure should be greater than I have it currently and that he doesn’t belong on this list. Or maybe he just missed.
I don’t usually deal with ‘intangibles’ since the whole point of this exercise is to isolate talent quantitatively, but in this case I wonder if Clay’s experience as a FB/H-back at Tulsa doesn’t give him a leg up on the other players here. In addition to 189 NCAA catches for 13.5 yds/rec and 28 TDs, Clay rushed the ball 179 times for 911 yards and 10 scores.
Regardless, he’s a strong prospect – though most likely one that must occupy a particular role in order to be successful. However, as long as the Dolphins are willing to incorporate his specific skill set into the offense there’s no reason to expect he won’t continue to produce. My best guess is that his peak level of performance in the NFL will be better (and longer) than Davis’s peak, but not as strong as Hernandez’s (who was in an ideal situation).
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ebsteelers
Footballguy
What % of your bankroll are people throwing at him?
5-10%?
5-10%?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Thanks guys ... this stuff seems to evoke strong reactions both ways, so it's always nice to hear when someone likes it.
I bid 5-7% for Clay last week where I didn't already own him, but didn't win him in every league. Though he was still there for FCFS in a few leagues as well.
Guessing it'll take at least 8-10% this week, but who knows? So many good TEs out there that maybe there won't be much demand.
ETA: this is dynasty only. Prices may be less in redraft, not sure.
I bid 5-7% for Clay last week where I didn't already own him, but didn't win him in every league. Though he was still there for FCFS in a few leagues as well.
Guessing it'll take at least 8-10% this week, but who knows? So many good TEs out there that maybe there won't be much demand.
ETA: this is dynasty only. Prices may be less in redraft, not sure.
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Rick James
Footballguy
dropped Dwayne Allen for him, if that gives you any idea of what his value is.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He's been good with receiving TDs and long receptions so far in his career as well -- 44-508-5.
ETA - Hypothetically add goalline TD vulture to starting TE with 4-5 receptions and 60ish yards per week, and what do you get? I'll be looking to add in all leagues where I need TE help, expecially with wdcrob's report above.
65 catches for 800 yards and 7-9 TDs (5-6rec + 2-3rush) would make him pretty strong from the TE position.
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Jewell
Footballguy
Quality stuff. Thanks.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Are we thinking he could be a long-term solution there? Redraft value looks pretty solid, is his dynasty value less, the same, or more?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Considering the coaches wanted to give his job to Keller I have no idea. But I'd think he'll be reasonably hard to displace if he keeps this up.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Hmmmmmm. You said 8-10% waiver bid, and that seems reasonable. Trying to decide if I should burn my waiver priority on him, and who I'd drop....
After week 1, i sent out an offer to give Clay for Kendricks since i needed depth at LB.
Forgot offer was there, it was accepted after his game sunday, probably would not have done it if i had remembered the offer was there.
I think he has the potential to remain the starter in Mia. Keller won't be back, sims is a rookie and gonna fall behind as long as Clay keeps up the playing time.
Forgot offer was there, it was accepted after his game sunday, probably would not have done it if i had remembered the offer was there.
I think he has the potential to remain the starter in Mia. Keller won't be back, sims is a rookie and gonna fall behind as long as Clay keeps up the playing time.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I really wish guys like this would get more of a chance in the NFL - can play tight end, full back, can catch, can run, can block.
These are the Csonkas of today but they rarely get in the gameplan.
These are the Csonkas of today but they rarely get in the gameplan.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Old-school full backs are dinosaurs -- pretty much every eligible receiver needs to be able to be a part of the passing game these days.
But it seems like defenses have gone smaller and faster for coverage reasons as the pass defense rules have become more restrictive, so getting some bigger bodies out there who can either beat linebacker coverage or destroy DBs in the blocking game should be valuable.
So I think that FB/HB players in the mold of Clay and Hernandez could see their league-wide opportunities grow. There aren't enough good receiving TEs for every team to do what the Bengals have done and just play with two traditional TEs.
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JFS171
Footballguy
They require a HC and OC that's willing to think outside the traditional roles of given positions. Clay's a lot more Hernandez-type than most TEs. He's moveable - line him up in the backfield, at TE, etc. Some coaches call that a tweener; others call it a weapon. It appears Philbin falls into the latter grouping.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
The problem with Clay has been consistency. He flashed this ability last year....then fell off the map.
My hope as a Dolphins fan is...he has turned the corner and can be a viable piece of a steady evolving offense.
First time in 15 years I am excited about our QB, offense and team in general.
My hope as a Dolphins fan is...he has turned the corner and can be a viable piece of a steady evolving offense.
First time in 15 years I am excited about our QB, offense and team in general.
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ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Amen, Todem.
I think the Wallace factor plays into his recent success as well. With him requiring additional attention, the middle of the field on short/intermediate routes is a lot more spacious than it has been in the past. I think if you watched the Steelers game last night, you can see the opposite effect. Lot of people calling Wallace a major bust candidate, and his stats may never reflect those of a $12M man - but his effect on the stats of others - like Clay - may be more of an indication of his effect on the O.
I think the Wallace factor plays into his recent success as well. With him requiring additional attention, the middle of the field on short/intermediate routes is a lot more spacious than it has been in the past. I think if you watched the Steelers game last night, you can see the opposite effect. Lot of people calling Wallace a major bust candidate, and his stats may never reflect those of a $12M man - but his effect on the stats of others - like Clay - may be more of an indication of his effect on the O.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He's actually produced more or less every time he's gotten an opportunity.
From Weeks 5-15 last year (10 games) he had 28 targets and 17 rec for 210 yds and 2 TDs -- including 6-84-1 in Week 11. But the coaches just never made him a big part of the offense. Then he missed the last two games.
If Keller hadn't gotten hurt and Egnew hadn't been so totally overmatched who knows if they'd have ever played the guy?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
He's like a Jim "Crash" Jensen in one sense, he's versatile. He can catch, block, and yes even take a hand off. If the Phins are going to let him be the short yardage back at the end zone(Thomas blows) then Clay becomes extremely valuable because he could end up with 7-8 short yardage TDs, then you add in 45-50 receptions, 500 yds, 3-4 receiving TD...you could end up with 500-600 yds, 8-10 TD, makes a pretty nice punch at your TE2 spot with the possibility of flex options and maybe even be the starter for you at some point.
I think defenses are occupied with Wallace and Hartline right now, Clay is being left to roam around the middle of the field and boy is he finding holes in those defenses to carve huge chunks of yards.
I think defenses are occupied with Wallace and Hartline right now, Clay is being left to roam around the middle of the field and boy is he finding holes in those defenses to carve huge chunks of yards.
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
Yeah, I dropped him in a dynasty for just that reason and am regretting it. Had to let him go to get Thompkins back early in the PS before Keller got hurt. At the time I had Witten, Kelce, Reed, and Sudfeld, so I thought I was solid at the position; looked like he was going to be stuck behind too many bodies to have any value at the time.
Todem
Footballguy
Oh I had him on 3 squads as well.....but cut him loose this off-season after the Keller signing and drafting of Dion Jordan....the writing was clearly on the wall.....no one could see this coming....I had no space...I needed to add rookies.
And......again I hope he can keep this up and stay healthy.
He is like Jim "Crash" Jensen in many ways.....good comparison MOP.
And......again I hope he can keep this up and stay healthy.
He is like Jim "Crash" Jensen in many ways.....good comparison MOP.
Shutout
Footballguy
About two-three years ago, when everyone was just starting to talk up the observation tha the NFL had suddenly gone "Pass" silly and using the slot receivers extensively, etc, there was a discussion on Sirius Radio one day with guys like Gil Brandt and Pat Kirwin and a few guys that just really sounded like they knew where this was heading and they said way back then that if they were putting a team together and because they knwo the rules wouldn't let you decleat players coming across the middle, that they would start drafting BIG BIG RBs and guys that played FB/TE that appeared athletic enough to handle pass catching duties.
Their theory was while all the other teams were going 3-4 and finding lbers that could cover, they would find these mini-trucks that would just steam-roll these small, light defenders and just run them over until other teams caught up. THey admitted it wouldn't be envogue, but they all said it would be effective because you could control clock, you could run more in the critical situations without substituting, etc.
buddhacwru
Footballguy
Does anyone have any faith in Charles Clay (or a Miami team that is reeling)? I assume many have him as a backup TE and are considering dropping him.... but I don't follow Miami.
CentralPA
Footballguy
I have to play him with Witten on bye this week but he's pretty much no better than a backup plug and pray. He is pretty good at grabbing the occasional Red Zone TD.
