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1 minute ago, pantherclub said:

why do you not acknowledge his rushing that season?  That was the key

Because he will never have those rushing numbers again.  Through injury and age his ability to run like he once did is gone.  He has to be able to do it with his arm, and his accuracy was always his weakness.  Unfortunately for Cam, it's not just age but a lot more wear and tear than the average QB has taken.

I really think this is the beginning of the end for him.  It's too bad, because he was fun to watch in his prime.

 

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2 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

Because he will never have those rushing numbers again.  Through injury and age his ability to run like he once did is gone.  He has to be able to do it with his arm, and his accuracy was always his weakness.  Unfortunately for Cam, it's not just age but a lot more wear and tear than the average QB has taken.

I really think this is the beginning of the end for him.  It's too bad, because he was fun to watch in his prime.

 

I wouldnt say never.  Especially if he is healthy.  Its in his dna to run like that.   Which is way for like the 3rd time now me saying I wish they would shut him down.  You guys are kidding yourself saying he isnt a good qb when healthy.  Again before he got hurt the panthers were 6-2.  Dude knows how to win.

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1 hour ago, Dizzy said:

Dude, that's already 4 years ago.

This is how the Josh Gordon thread goes... "he stinks... he's a JAG"... "No, he did things in 2013 that were amazing"

Cam did things in 2018 that were great. He was an MVP candidate(if Mahomes didn't exist) until he got hurt. 

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1 hour ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

I'm not a Panthers fan but I am the biggest CMC nut hugger on this board.  I've watched a lot of Panther games since CMC has joined and Cam is not a good QB for CMC.  He only passes to him in check down situations.  He never would have made that TD pass CMC got this past weekend on that Curl/Slant route.  CMC is the best offensive player on that team and I think KA is the best QB for getting CMC involved.  Cam lost the shine and this injury was supposedly nothing until they lost a couple now it's a thing. Seems like they're making excuses for Cam.  Just my $.02.  I appreciate the discussion.

Ummm....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtvxI9DnMM

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3 hours ago, travdogg said:

Cam did things in 2018 that were great. He was an MVP candidate(if Mahomes didn't exist) until he got hurt. 

Cam was playing really well in the 1st 8 games last year. 

177 for 263 =67%

1893 passing yards - 15 TD - 4 INT

342 Rushing yards + 4 TD

 

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16 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

I'm not a Panthers fan but I am the biggest CMC nut hugger on this board.  I've watched a lot of Panther games since CMC has joined and Cam is not a good QB for CMC.  He only passes to him in check down situations.  He never would have made that TD pass CMC got this past weekend on that Curl/Slant route.  CMC is the best offensive player on that team and I think KA is the best QB for getting CMC involved.  Cam lost the shine and this injury was supposedly nothing until they lost a couple now it's a thing. Seems like they're making excuses for Cam.  Just my $.02.  I appreciate the discussion.

Nobody had to make excuses.  You could tell from his lack of burst that the injury to his foot was taking away his big equalizer (running ability) which then zapped all his emotion  The first two games this year you could easily tell that the injury was a big deal regardless of what the Panthers management was saying.  A foot injury to a running QB is a big problem.  The real question is whether or not he can get healthy enough to be able to run like he has to in order to be effective. 

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8 in the box when Cam is at QB. 4-5 in the box with Allen. This frees up McCaffrey for the #s he's generated the last 3 weeks. Was just discussed on NFL Network. When there is a passing threat, you can't load the box. Best thing the Panthers can do is IR Cam for the year so they can continue to get Allen experience. Then cut Cam in the offseason and build around their new QB.

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Is it time to cut bait with him in redraft leagues? I’m carrying 3 QBs right now and 2 of them aren’t playing this week and I’m not thrilled with the other one’s matchup. I’m thinking of just cutting bait at this point but the League Dominator app has me hesitating because FBGs seems to still give Newton a lot of value.

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18 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Is it time to cut bait with him in redraft leagues? I’m carrying 3 QBs right now and 2 of them aren’t playing this week and I’m not thrilled with the other one’s matchup. I’m thinking of just cutting bait at this point but the League Dominator app has me hesitating because FBGs seems to still give Newton a lot of value.

If a normal 1 QB league, I'd have cut bait after Week 2.

Could have always picked up during Week 7 bye if that high on his prospects. IF he returns after Week 7 bye, not sure I'd be comfortable starting AT SF Week 8. TN defense isn't a cakewalk Week 9 despite playing at home. AT GB Week 10 where I'm not sure I'd want to start him. Fair to wonder how much he'll be running.

He's been sitting on our wire since after Week 2

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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9 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Is it time to cut bait with him in redraft leagues? I’m carrying 3 QBs right now and 2 of them aren’t playing this week and I’m not thrilled with the other one’s matchup. I’m thinking of just cutting bait at this point but the League Dominator app has me hesitating because FBGs seems to still give Newton a lot of value.

I actually just added him (he was a FA in both my leagues for weeks) in one league. I needed a backup QB for Wilson and noticed he played ATL that week. 

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According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, Cam Newton (foot) is not a lock to return as Carolina's starter.

The Panthers have won three straight with Kyle Allen at the helm and have a chance to make it four in a row Sunday against Tampa Bay. Benching Newton (a first overall pick and former league MVP) for Allen (an undrafted sophomore entering his fifth career start) seems ludicrous on the surface, though it sounds like the Panthers would consider it, especially if their winning ways continue. Rapoport was told by a Panthers source it would be "hard to imagine" the team making a quarterback change during a winning streak. Carolina is not expected to make a decision until Newton's injured foot has completely healed, which could be quite a while.

RELATED: 

Kyle Allen

SOURCE: NFL.com

Oct 13, 2019, 9:07 AM ET

 

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Done as a panther. He's not even 1/10th the passer that Kyle Allen is and his weapon (legs) is not gonna get it done.

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I have a weird feeling he’s done. He got a buttload of money. Made it to a SB. And is becoming a Frankenstein with all these surgeries. Don’t think he has the passion anymore, or to go out and prove himself to a new locker room and coaching staff.

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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Cam Newton (foot) has been cleared to return to practice following the Panthers' Week 7 bye.

The Panthers will have a decision to make come Week 8 when Newton will be ready to return to game action. Either they'll keep delaying the injury and wait for Kyle Allen (4-0, zero INTs) to lose a game and/or play bad, or they'll slide Newton right back in as the starter after he started the year 0-2 without throwing a touchdown while playing through his preseason injury. It's a decision coach Ron Rivera wasn't ready to make after the Panthers beat the Bucs in London.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Oct 14, 2019, 6:30 PM ET

 

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Just now, BigSteelThrill said:

LOL @ Panthers when they put Cam back out there.

I dunno. Panthers D is for real, and if Cam is back running again, this team looks good. Lots of weapons on offense. Allen has been very good for his level of experience, but can't say he has elevated the team beyond what Cam has achieved.

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1 minute ago, Truebluey said:

I dunno. Panthers D is for real, and if Cam is back running again, this team looks good. Lots of weapons on offense. Allen has been very good for his level of experience, but can't say he has elevated the team beyond what Cam has achieved.

Cam has three winning seasons and six losing ones. His last winning season came on the back of his 22td/16int, 59%comp, 6.7 yards per piss-poor year.

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Just now, BigSteelThrill said:

Cam has three winning seasons and six losing ones. His last winning season came on the back of his 22td/16int, 59%comp, 6.7 yards per piss-poor year.

Just saying I don't think folks will be laughing at this Panthers team this year, no matter who their starter is. 

As for Cam, it really depends on if he's healthy or not.

And who knows, maybe having competition for his spot will light a fire under him? Or maybe it will lead to him retiring? We don't know at this stage.

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Allen is part of the reason they are winning right now. Its not the "in spite of" scenario that Cam brings with him.  The defense gave up 20, 26 and 27 and still got the wins.

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19 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Allen is part of the reason they are winning right now. Its not the "in spite of" scenario that Cam brings with him.  The defense gave up 20, 26 and 27 and still got the wins.

Big Cam fan here, but this is correct. If Cam can’t sling it in practice more than 20 yards like he hasn’t been able to the last 2 years, you have to stick with Allen.

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48 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Allen is part of the reason they are winning right now. Its not the "in spite of" scenario that Cam brings with him.  The defense gave up 20, 26 and 27 and still got the wins.

That isn't really fair. Both Arizona and Tampa scored late in garbage time, those games were never in question. The defense has 14 turnovers, and 23 sacks in those 4 games. The defense is MUCH more responsible for those wins than anything Allen has done, short of maybe(Maybe?) the Cardinals game. 

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9 minutes ago, travdogg said:

That isn't really fair. Both Arizona and Tampa scored late in garbage time, those games were never in question. The defense has 14 turnovers, and 23 sacks in those 4 games. The defense is MUCH more responsible for those wins than anything Allen has done, short of maybe(Maybe?) the Cardinals game. 

I agree to a point.

But on the bolded, The Bucs scored 19 in the final 20 minutes of an 11 point game. Now go look at he Panthers first two losses (incl the Bucs) with Cam in and his contributions in those close games. With Allens play, if it was the same as these last four, they likely win those two also. 🥇

Edited by BigSteelThrill

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39 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Now go look at he Panthers first two losses (incl the Bucs) with Cam in and his contributions in those close games. With Allens play, if it was the same as these last four, they likely win those two also. 🥇

Are you just totally disregarding that Cam played those first two games with a lisfranc injury?

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

That isn't really fair. Both Arizona and Tampa scored late in garbage time, those games were never in question. The defense has 14 turnovers, and 23 sacks in those 4 games. The defense is MUCH more responsible for those wins than anything Allen has done, short of maybe(Maybe?) the Cardinals game. 

Or hasn't done.  Like throwing interceptions and making bad decisions.

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24 minutes ago, simey said:

Are you just totally disregarding that Cam played those first two games with a lisfranc injury?

His history of sub-par passing was even worse, granted. But he has had seasons look like that and he does get hurt and play hurt a ton.  🦸‍♂️

Edited by BigSteelThrill

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33 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:
1 hour ago, travdogg said:

That isn't really fair. Both Arizona and Tampa scored late in garbage time, those games were never in question. The defense has 14 turnovers, and 23 sacks in those 4 games. The defense is MUCH more responsible for those wins than anything Allen has done, short of maybe(Maybe?) the Cardinals game. 

Or hasn't done.  Like throwing interceptions and making bad decisions.

Allen has fumbled six times, and lost four of them. 

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13 minutes ago, simey said:

Allen has fumbled six times, and lost four of them. 

Somebody(PFF maybe?) did a study, that QB fumbles are more than twice as bad a play as an INT. I think the logic is, that often with QB fumbles there often are no players back to tackle a defender, where as often with INT's the defender is tackled by the receiver he is covering, and sometimes INT's serve a similar function as short punts.

 

1 hour ago, simey said:

Are you just totally disregarding that Cam played those first two games with a lisfranc injury?

This really isn't been said enough. Is Allen playing better than Cam did the 1st 2 weeks? Sure. But why is the assumption that the 1st 2 weeks are the Cam that is going to come back? He clearly wasn't healthy and will have had over a month to heal up. Newton was playing the best football of his career(short of his MVP season) last year, before getting hurt. The Panthers were 6-2 at that time. 

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9 minutes ago, travdogg said:

 

 

This really isn't been said enough. Is Allen playing better than Cam did the 1st 2 weeks? Sure. But why is the assumption that the 1st 2 weeks are the Cam that is going to come back? He clearly wasn't healthy and will have had over a month to heal up. Newton was playing the best football of his career(short of his MVP season) last year, before getting hurt. The Panthers were 6-2 at that time. 

Wait, are you suggesting that the Panthers should put Cam back in because he was playing well nearly a full season ago? 

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1 hour ago, Ghost Rider said:

Wait, are you suggesting that the Panthers should put Cam back in because he was playing well nearly a full season ago? 

I'm suggesting the team has a much higher ceiling with a healthy Cam Newton than they do with Kyle Allen. Allen has shown absolutely nothing to prove otherwise. 

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Might be difficult to put Cam back in later in season if they decide to roll with Allen over Cam even if healthy.  Cam seems like a lot of guys, who would take that as a slap in the face and maybe hold a grudge.  I think they have to let Cam play and prove he can't do it before making a healthy bench.

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

I'm suggesting the team has a much higher ceiling with a healthy Cam Newton than they do with Kyle Allen. Allen has shown absolutely nothing to prove otherwise. 

He's 5-0 with better completion %, better interception %, better yards per attempt, passer rating etc.

Look, I bought the Can Kool Aid this year, took him as my #1 QB, had him on several teams over the years. I'm a big fan, but I am not convinced he brings enough of the athleticism that makes him dangerous and dynamic enough to make up for his historically inconsistent passing (last year not withstanding).

I am skeptical that Kyle Allen is the long term solution but I am more skeptical that Cam's foot and shoulder are going to be healed enough at any point this season to make the risk worthwhile for the team.

Right now there is a built-in reason to keep Cam on the bench and the Panthers would be wise to continue using it.

If Allen keeps starting and loses you can go back to Cam but if Cam gets the start and loses, it gets much trickier deciding when and how to bench him.  

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6 hours ago, Chaka said:

If Allen keeps starting and loses you can go back to Cam but if Cam gets the start and loses, it gets much trickier deciding when and how to bench him.  

This.

Last time Cam was on the field...Rivera was 0-2 and the chatter surrounding his job security was increasing.  By keeping Allen in...you can reason that it’s because the Panthers are playing the hot hand.  It makes a lot of sense if you’re taking your fortunes week-to-week.  Perhaps most importantly from a ‘Cam’ perspective...it’s not a benching.

But if Cam is reinserted...and the Panthers lose?  Now you’ve got a situation.

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6 hours ago, Chaka said:

If Allen keeps starting and loses you can go back to Cam but if Cam gets the start and loses, it gets much trickier deciding when and how to bench him.  

As a Panther fan, I'm curious as to what Tepper's thoughts are. The offense is in a groove right now, and to disrupt that doesn't seem like a good idea. They play the 49ers next, and that would be a good test for Allen. Putting a rusty Cam out there doesn't seem ideal. Norv's offense is also better suited for Allen, which isn't a knock on Cam. Anyway, Cam has been cleared to practice, and they are on a bye now, so week 8 will be interesting.

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Panthers coach Ron Rivera would not confirm if Cam Newton (foot) will return to practice next week.

"Until he's 100 percent, we're not going to address it," Rivera said. "The young man has done everything we've asked. I'm not going to put pressure on him." In other words, nothing's changed. Newton will only return to practice once his foot is 100 percent healed, and there's clearly no rush to get him back on the field with Kyle Allen helping the team to four consecutive wins in the former MVP's absence. It's probably not the best idea to bring Newton back against San Francisco's ferocious pass rush in Week 8.

SOURCE: Steve Reed on Twitter

Oct 15, 2019, 10:29 AM ET

 

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Cam Newton (foot) has yet to resume practicing.

The Panthers have already announced Kyle Allen as their Week 8 starter, but they seemed to be holding out hope that Newton might be able to get some reps in. That did not happen on Wednesday or Thursday. It bodes poorly for Newton's odds of returning in Week 9, though that still can't be ruled out.

Oct 24, 2019, 1:28 PM ET

 

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6 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

what happens when Allen leads the Panthers to victory on sunday........

I am going to go out on a limb and say that you are probably a Panthers fan. I think the next 3 games will be tough for Allen which might bode well for Cam. Based on the limited comments I have seen I am not convinced that Rivera is ready to hand over the reins of the offense to Allen yet. Allen would have to force his hand by playing great the next few weeks which obviously could happen. I think Trubisky is the only starting QB in the NFL who can challenge Cam for being the most inaccurate starting QB in the NFL. 

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It really blows my mind that people don't think Cam is the unquestioned starter the second he is healthy. He's a franchise QB, he makes everyone on the offense harder to defend. Everyone keeps pointing to the first two weeks, as if that is who Newton is, and not a guy playing through an injury that has a 2 month recovery time. Of course Newton wasn't playing his best, he was seriously injured. I mean, I'm pretty sure Bridgewater would have played better than Brees, if Brees had attempted to play through his hand injury. This really isn't different.

Also, while the record has been nice, Kyle Allen hasn't played well at all. He's been as lucky as a guy can be. He'd thrown plenty of passes that should have been picked off, and shown little pocket presence, and a penchant for sloppy fumbles long before today's implosion.

 

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I think it is safe to say Cam will be under center this Sunday. How are owners feeling? I will be going back and forth all week with my lineup (Jimmy G). Winston and Evans just lit up the tennessee secondary however they were without Jackson. Thoughts?

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3 hours ago, starks said:

I think it is safe to say Cam will be under center this Sunday. How are owners feeling? I will be going back and forth all week with my lineup (Jimmy G). Winston and Evans just lit up the tennessee secondary however they were without Jackson. Thoughts?

If healthy, top 3 fantasy qb the rest of the way. Been grabbing him off the wire wherever possible 

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7 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

If healthy, top 3 fantasy qb the rest of the way. Been grabbing him off the wire wherever possible 

Whoa! :jawdrop:

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11 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

If healthy, top 3 fantasy qb the rest of the way. Been grabbing him off the wire wherever possible 

I mean I am all about sunshine pumping but that's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off. 

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3 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

Whoa! :jawdrop:

Schedule shapes up well for having to score points and weather. Lamar Jackson is currently #3. Cams weapons are better than Jackson’s.  He’ll keeping the running stats close

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