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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (6 Viewers)

OK, since this is the dead period before thee draft, I thought I'd look at the updated visit list:

Brandon Allen, QB, Arkansas (WOR)

Willie Beavers, OT, Western Michigan (SR)

Vonn Bell, S, Ohio State (STM)

Moritz Wilhelm Boehringer, WR, Germany (PRI)

Tyler Boyd^, WR, Pittsburgh (COM, WOR)

Vernon Butler^, DT/NT, Louisiana Tech (SR, WOR, PRI)

Kevin Byard^, S, Middle Tennessee (INT, WOR)

Kivon Cartwright, TE, Colorado State (EW)

Corey Coleman, WR, Baylor (STM)

Trevon Coley, DT, Florida Atlantic (EW)

Cody Core, WR, Ole Miss (EW)

Su'a Cravens, OLB, USC (STM)

Joe Dahl, G/OT, Washington State (STM)

Kevin Dodd, DE, Clemson (PRI)

DeAndre Elliott, CB, Colorado State (PRO)

Josh Ferguson, RB, Illinois (EW)

Keyarris Garrett, WR, Tulsa (PRI)

Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (WOR)

Derrick Henry^, RB, Alabama (STM, PRI)

Johnny Holton, WR, Cincinnati (WOR)

Austin Hooper, TE, Stanford (PRO)

Germain Ifedi^, OT, Texas A&M (COM, PRI, WOR)

Cyrus Jones, CB, Alabama (WOR)

Deion Jones, OLB, LSU (WOR)

Jayron Kearse, S, Clemson (STM)

Shaq Lawson^, DE/3-4OLB, Clemson (PRI, WOR)

Jordan Lomax, FS, Iowa (EW)

Harlan Miller^, CB, Southeastern Louisiana (PRO, PRI, WOR)

Chris Moore^, WR, Cincinnati (PRO, WOR)

Emmanuel Ogbah, DE/3-4DE, Oklahoma State (WOR)

Romeo Okwara, DE, Notre Dame (EW)

David Onyemata, DT, Manitoba (EW)

Dak Prescott^, QB, Mississippi State (PRO, PRI)

Jarran Reed^, DT/3-4DE/NT, Alabama (WOR, PRI)

Roy Robertson-Harris, DE, Texas-El Paso (PRO)

A'Shawn Robinson, DT/3-4DE/NT, Alabama (PRI)

Zack Sanchez, CB, Oklahoma (PRI)

Hunter Sharp, WR, Utah State (EW)

Sterling Shepard, WR, Oklahoma (COM)

Ryan Smith, CB, North Carolina Central (WOR)

Noah Spence, OLB/DE/3-4OLB, Eastern Kentucky (COM)

Darian Thompson^, S, Boise State (PRI, WOR)

Laquon Treadwell, WR, Ole Miss (COM)

Daryl Worley, CB, West Virginia (WOR)

Read more at http://www.walterfootball.com/prospectMeetings/byteam#DzfwJvcfzm6r3ByM.99

 
Let's think about 1st/2nd rounders, assuming no one ridiculous falls that we didn't meet.

1st rounders - Spence, Treadwell, Reed, Robinson, Bell, Butler, Coleman, Dodd, Henry, Ifedi, Lawson, Ogbah

2nd rounders - Thompson, Cravens (put him here as well since he isn't usually mocked in the 1st except for us), Bell, Boyd, Henry, Ifedi, Shepard

Honestly, all 2nd rounders I would be happy with as they fit a need or would solidify the offense (Henry, Shepard/Boyd). I think the only 2 first rounders I would be unhappy with are Henry and Ifedi. I think Henry isn't good enough to be a 1st rounder and isn't enough of an improvement over Stewart. Ifedi could be a solid tackle, but it seems like he's not quite in the top tier and there are likely other Ts later that are almost as good. I wouldn't want either of those 2 over the others. Also, I really hope Treadwell doesn't drop to us. I don't think he will, but I'd rather have a burner like Coleman to go with Funchess/Benjamin/Olsen.

Based on the mocks, I would think Dodd/Ogbah and then Cravens/Bell/Thompson would be a great 1/2 punch for BPA while also providing impact at spots we could use it.

ETA: I thought we were bringing in Alexander for a visit. It looks like they did and this LIST has a few others like Killebrew at S. I am wondering if the Panthers are realizing that the CBs may be going before they pick because they only worked out Alexander and I think they did that as he seems to be the only one dropping far enough and he's from Clemson and they worked him out with other Clemson players. Based on the visits and mocks, I am thinking outside of Alexander dropping that we are far more likely to go CB in the 3rd/4th with Jones/Miller/Sanchez/Worley and maybe again in the 5th/7th with Elliot/Smith.

 
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Also, an article on ESPN about us potentially moving down out of the 1st round. I don't think we will because there appear to be a lot of really good players available there. That said, it will be interesting to see some of the QB picks early/mid round. I could easily see some teams wanting to leap frog Denver if say Lynch is still on the board or maybe Cook if Lynch is gone and a team like Cleveland passed on a QB.

Here's a scenario that would be really interesting. Rams pass on Lynch at 15, then trade 43 and 45 to Carolina for 30 and 62 to get ahead of Denver to grab Lynch. According to Jimmie Johnson's trade chart that is almost equivalent value. I think I would do that if I were the Panthers unless there was a guy at 30 we absolutely loved. I like some of the guys at 62, but it seems like there is a glut of guys in the 30-50 range that all could go 1st/early 2nd and then maybe a bit of a drop off after that. I think based on surprise jumps and overvaluing QBs like Cook, you could easily get two guys with 1st round grades at 43/45, maybe even a Cravens you would have taken at 30.

 
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Saw a picture of Cam working out in the pool with the US Water Polo team. Playing goalie. Dude is this generations Bo Jackson IMO.

 
Thu.


Sept. 8


at Denver Broncos    WIN


8:30 p.m.


NBC


Sun.


Sept. 18


vs. San Francisco 49ers     WIN


1:00 p.m.


FOX


Sun.


Sept. 25


vs. Minnesota Vikings     WIN


1:00 p.m.


FOX


Sun.


Oct. 2


at Atlanta Falcons    WIN


1:00 p.m.


FOX


Mon.


Oct. 10


Tampa Bay Buccaneers   WIN


8:30 p.m.


ESPN


Sun.


Oct. 16


at New Orleans Saints     WIN


1:00 p.m.*


FOX


Sun.


Oct. 23


BYE


 


 


Sun.


Oct. 30


vs. Arizona Cardinals    WIN


4:25 p.m.*


FOX


Sun.


Nov. 6


at Los Angeles Rams   WIN


4:05 p.m.*


FOX


Sun.


Nov. 13


vs. Kansas City Chiefs     WIN


1:00 p.m.*


CBS


Thu.


Nov. 17


vs. New Orleans Saints   WIN


8:25 p.m.


NBC/NFL Network


Sun.


Nov. 27


at Oakland Raiders   WIN


4:25 p.m.*


CBS


Sun.


Dec. 4


at Seattle Seahawks  We  own them now  WIN


8:30 p.m.*


NBC


Sun.


Dec. 11


vs. San Diego Chargers   WIN


1:00 p.m.*


FOX


Mon.


Dec. 19


at Washington Redskins   WIN


8:30 p.m.


ESPN


Sat.


Dec. 24


vs. Atlanta Falcons   WIN


1:00 p.m.


FOX


Sun


Jan. 1


at Tampa Bay Buccaneers   WIN


1:00 p.m.*


FOX

 
I think 5-1 in the division, maybe 4-2..

Against NFC West, pretty sure it will be 3-1 with Arizona coming here. I can't imagine losing to SF/LA with rookie QBs/Gabbert. Against AFC West, 3-1 or 2-2. Minny/Wash 2-0, mainly because the team we'd have more trouble with is coming here.

That puts me at 13-3 in optimistic terms and 11-5 on the downside.

 
The cats play Seattle @  Seattle this coming season. How come it isn't in Carolina since the Panthers played @ Seattle in the regular season last year? 2014 the regular season game was in Carolina. Are they not going to switch off yearly for home and away since they seem to have a rivalry series going with one another?

 
simey said:
The cats play Seattle @  Seattle this coming season. How come it isn't in Carolina since the Panthers played @ Seattle in the regular season last year? 2014 the regular season game was in Carolina. Are they not going to switch off yearly for home and away since they seem to have a rivalry series going with one another?
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Has nothing to do with that (playing top teams from other divisions when you win division), this time it's because they play the NFC West, so I think that doesn't matter at all. That said, I like it that way. Seattle will play us tough regardless of location, so I'd rather play Arizona at home because I think that makes it an easier game. I think Seattle on the road >>>> Arizona on the road.

Also, I wonder if they kept us on the West coast because of the Raider game so we weren't flying out West every other week.

 
I'm thinking 11-12 wins. Actually based on last year's records this isn't a particularly hard schedule. I think no worse than 4-2 heading into the bye is a reasonable expectation.

 
simey said:
The cats play Seattle @  Seattle this coming season. How come it isn't in Carolina since the Panthers played @ Seattle in the regular season last year? 2014 the regular season game was in Carolina. Are they not going to switch off yearly for home and away since they seem to have a rivalry series going with one another?
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Seattle came here in 2013, so we go there this year.  In 2019 they will come here.  That will forever alternate every 3 years.  The only reason we played them the last two years is because both teams finished first in the division.  We would not have played them this year (would have played Arizona), except for the fact that it was a year that the entire division plays the NFC West.

 
BassNBrew said:
A lot of Debbie Downers in here with their 11 season win totals.
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Hedging our bets. Last season was way above expectations. If they come away with 2 or 3 potential studs in the draft, I'd go with my 13-3 optimistic pick. It's hard to go much above 11 just because of dumb luck. There will be close games and a fluke play can decide any one of them.

 
BassNBrew said:
A lot of Debbie Downers in here with their 11 season win totals.
Click to expand...
Just think there is a lot of travel on that schedule. That can mess with a teams rhythm. A lot of Prime Time which has it own demands that can get a team off their routine. I also think when we look at past Super Bowl participants we generally see a let down the following season. Heck a lot of them don't make the playoffs. I think the Panthers win the South again and get back to the playoffs. I just won't be surprised if we lose a few on the way.

 
How do some people keep their jobs?

A Charlotte area sports writer wrote this week that the Panthers should trade Luke Keuchly so they can move up in the draft and grab,.......Derrick Henry. Really? REALLY? Never mind that Henry will almost surely be available when the Panthers pick at 31 anyway, but this simpleton went on to say he didn't see how Henry wasn't in consideration for the number one overall pick since he had won the Heisman and the national championship. How do these guys keep their jobs!?

 
petekrum said:
How do some people keep their jobs?

A Charlotte area sports writer wrote this week that the Panthers should trade Luke Keuchly so they can move up in the draft and grab,.......Derrick Henry. Really? REALLY? Never mind that Henry will almost surely be available when the Panthers pick at 31 anyway, but this simpleton went on to say he didn't see how Henry wasn't in consideration for the number one overall pick since he had won the Heisman and the national championship. How do these guys keep their jobs!?
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I hadn't even heard of that web site. If you look at the other articles it's got high school sports including girls teams. There's nothing else at a professional level. Dude is either a complete idiot or smart in knowing that he'd get a lot of clicks based on saying something so dumb that it would become a bigger story. 

 
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stbugs said:
I hadn't even heard of that web site. If you look at the other articles it's got high school sports including girls teams. There's nothing else at a professional level. Dude is either a complete idiot or smart in knowing that he'd get a lot of clicks based on saying something so dumb that it would become a bigger story. 
Click to expand...
Writing anything that dumb should be career suicide.

 
NCCommish said:
Panthers rescind Norman franchise tag. He's a UFA.
Click to expand...
What in the MF hell? Not happy about this at all. Why do this now? We either better use that cap space for something else or have a plan in place. Norman is a huge part of the defense.

 
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stbugs said:
What in the MF hell? Not happy about this at all. Why do this now? We either better use that cap space for something else or have a plan in place. Norman is a huge part of the defense.
Click to expand...
I don't think Gettleman wants to pay franchise tag money on someone he knows they won't get a long term contract with.  Gettleman said a long term deal with Norman is not attainable. The cats wasted franchise tag money on Julius Peppers in the past, and the franchise tag on Greg Hardy was a waste. Norman already said he wasn't showing up for OTAs, and he wants to be the highest paid player at his position.  I have no problem with Gettleman letting him become a UFA. 

 
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stbugs said:
What in the MF hell? Not happy about this at all. Why do this now? We either better use that cap space for something else or have a plan in place. Norman is a huge part of the defense.
Click to expand...
Norman finished the season number 15 completion percentage allowed at 60%.

 
simey said:
I don't think Gettleman wants to pay franchise tag money on someone he knows they won't get a long term contract with.  Gettleman said a long term deal with Norman is not attainable. The cats wasted franchise tag money on Julius Peppers in the past, and last years franchise tag on Greg Hardy was a waste. Norman already said he wasn't showing up for OTAs, and he wants to be the highest paid player at his position.  I have no problem with Gettleman letting him become a UFA. 
Click to expand...
I think it was the skipping OTAs that did it.

 
NCCommish said:
Norman finished the season number 15 completion percentage allowed at 60%.
Click to expand...
He's very good, but not great.  He got lucky on several plays last year.  Of course your ability puts you in position to get lucky, but Norman was close to being posterized numerous times last year.  Maybe both sides can negotiate in ernst now.

 
Unless we find out that Norman killed somebody, Gettleman is an idiot. I have always thought his ego controlled him, this does not change my mind. 

I did not want to pay Norman top dollar long term but WHY cut yourself off at the knees to prove a point? The guy would have been playing for a contract. Why not freaking trade him? 

 
stratocatter said:
Unless we find out that Norman killed somebody, Gettleman is an idiot. I have always thought his ego controlled him, this does not change my mind. 

I did not want to pay Norman top dollar long term but WHY cut yourself off at the knees to prove a point? The guy would have been playing for a contract. Why not freaking trade him? 
Click to expand...
Because he was a free agent and they didn't have the rights to trade him until Norman signed the franchise tender.

 
Which, he would probably have done had a team agreed to pay him what he wants. I realize trading him under those circumstances is difficult.

 
stratocatter said:
Unless we find out that Norman killed somebody, Gettleman is an idiot. I have always thought his ego controlled him, this does not change my mind. 
Click to expand...
I think Gettleman has been a good GM thus far, and I seriously doubt this decision was guided by his ego. 

 
stratocatter said:
Which, he would probably have done had a team agreed to pay him what he wants. I realize trading him under those circumstances is difficult.
Click to expand...
They allowed him.and his agent to pursue a trade, no takers.

 
He wanted Revis money and he hadn't proved it. Everyone was wondering how we would keep him and KK/Star. Well that just got way easier.

 
stratocatter said:
Smitty, now this. Don't backtalk Dave.
Click to expand...
Did DeAngelo back-talk too? The NFL is a business, and a team sport. I think DG's decisions have made sense no matter how unpopular some decisions have been.

 
stratocatter said:
Which, he would probably have done had a team agreed to pay him what he wants. I realize trading him under those circumstances is difficult.
Click to expand...
They'll get a 3rd rounder as compensation as a floor and NCC posted they tried to look for takers.

I'm just not happy we couldn't work it out and at least get one year with everyone. 

 
I expected the Gettleman slurping at the Huddle. Not here too. Oh well, I am sure you guys are right, the best move was to release Josh Norman. 

 
stratocatter said:
I expected the Gettleman slurping at the Huddle. Not here too. Oh well, I am sure you guys are right, the best move was to release Josh Norman. 
Click to expand...
I'm good with someone else overpaying Josh. I want to keep KK and Star. I want to keep Benjamin. Josh wanted to be paid nearly QB money. Few, if any, teams can afford two starting QB salaries for very long and keep anyone. Heck some teams can't survive one.

And regardless Gettleman has earned some trust IMO.

 
stratocatter said:
I expected the Gettleman slurping at the Huddle. Not here too. Oh well, I am sure you guys are right, the best move was to release Josh Norman. 
Click to expand...
I'm not happy at all, mainly for this year because we are obviously good enough to contend. That said, if this makes it easier to keep all the others together longer, then I will learn to live with it. We've never had this much cap to carry over before and we need it. When you continue to make good draft picks, you also create a cap issue 4-5 years later. It's a good problem to have because you either get compensatory picks or you re-sign those players.

I'll be honest though, I never thought we had a chance to keep him long term because at his age (still amazed he was 25 during his rookie year) he's trying to a long term deal this year, not next year.

Norman even said he talked to Richardson and was going to sign the franchise tender. Someone or something changed his mind and I think that's probably the start of the separation.

 
Look at guys who got deals done. No talk of holdouts, no complaining about the process, they just let it work. Norman went the other way. I think this is also a little bit of message sent. 

And to be clear I like Norman. I wish we could have kept him but not at any price. 11-12 a year sounds a bit pricey to me but if we can afford it OK. The numbers he allegedly wants are nonstarters.

 
stratocatter said:
I expected the Gettleman slurping at the Huddle. Not here too. Oh well, I am sure you guys are right, the best move was to release Josh Norman. 
Click to expand...
People are Gettleman slurping because they don't share your opinion? That's mature.

Norman wants too much money, and has expressed holding out. The Panthers are not going to break the bank on him, and they have been trying since last year to give him a long term deal. They see that isn't going to happen, and therefore they are moving on, and preparing for the draft. They have a team to take care of, not just Josh Norman.

 
NCCommish said:
I'm good with someone else overpaying Josh. I want to keep KK and Star. I want to keep Benjamin. Josh wanted to be paid nearly QB money. Few, if any, teams can afford two starting QB salaries for very long and keep anyone. Heck some teams can't survive one.

And regardless Gettleman has earned some trust IMO.
Click to expand...
I didn't get a good feeling when Josh started talking about this and honestly, I'm not terribly upset by this.  The core of this team is solid and focused.  They don't need Norman "doing business" to become a distraction.  I don't think he's worth it at the money he was wanting.  I wouldn't want Sherman at that sort of money either.

 
The Commish said:
I didn't get a good feeling when Josh started talking about this and honestly, I'm not terribly upset by this.  The core of this team is solid and focused.  They don't need Norman "doing business" to become a distraction.  I don't think he's worth it at the money he was wanting.  I wouldn't want Sherman at that sort of money either.
Click to expand...
I started getting a bit worried when he said all that fluff about talking to Richardson and said he was going to sign the franchise tender. It had been a few weeks and then no news about it. I assisted in the picks for Andy's recent mock and decided on Alexander over Dodd because I felt like it had become a foregone conclusion that Norman was at best a one year player for us. I remember searching about signing the franchise tender because I didn't recall if he actually did sign it.

I hope we go almost all D in this draft and come away with 1 top and 1 good mid round CB that we like. I also wouldn't mind us signing someone like Leon Hall to a prove it deal as well. The only exceptions I wouldn't mind seeing is an OT and a WR. Going to be hard to fill all the needs with BPA, but now, I am hoping for something like this:

1. Alexander, Calhoun/Nassib or Butler/Clark, Coleman/Other OT, Sanchez/Jones, WR/S, 7th round fun

2. Dodd/Ogbah, Howard/Burns/Fuller, Coleman/Other OT, Sanchez/Jones, WR/S, 7th round fun

 
Mixed emotions over Norman, but if he was hinting at holding out, missing OTAs, and had the potential to be a whiner in the locker room, then I guess it's for the best.  Hoping Getts knows what he's doing.  

"best player available" is interesting.  Wonder who that will be at our pick.  

 
All signs point to Washington signing Josh. 14-15 million a year for 5 years is the rumor. No speculation on guaranteed money yet. Deal done some time tomorrow allegedly.

That's a lot to pay. Although I would be surprised if he sees all 5 at that price. Maybe he'll be all that. Still 75 million seems like over paying.

 
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