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BassNBrew

****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** Goodbye Riverboat Ron

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44 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

When you're a good team, quality is much more important than quantity.  Everyone is raving about the Browns draft.  I'm not sure if anyone they drafted starts for us.

Yeah, their draft looks good on paper, but Nassib and Coleman from what I have read may be better college players than pros. I like Coleman and Ogbah, but the rest of their draft is just OK. I think the biggest disappointment for them is again at QB. Kessler isn't a franchise QB. I don't think he has a high NFL ceiling. Actually, I think the Browns and Titans could have done a ton better (they still have some picks in 2017, so who knows). I think for both, I liked their early picks the best, but feel like we could easily see them netting not nearly as much as people thought. For example, I know people liked Conklin and Dodd, but IMHO it wouldn't surprise me if both ended up not doing well. Same with Coleman and Ogbah, but while Tennessee has Mariota to soften the blow, the Browns could be real upset if Wentz comes through for the Eagles.

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I don't know who Jason Stoshak is but thought this was pretty cool.

Link

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1 hour ago, Jayrok said:

I don't know who Jason Stoshak is but thought this was pretty cool.

Link

He's likely the first one cut and the one I don't see much impact at all.

I think Cash and Garrett will have actual impacts (outside of special teams) in 2016. I like Devon Johnson as a potential Tolbert replacement and he might contribute this year, not sure. I like Jared Norris (not on FBG's list) as a guy who could fill in as a backup LB when AJ Klein leaves after 2016. I think Klein looked good enough in filling in for Kuechly that he is going to sign a decent size deal we can't afford. Ben Jacobs is already 28, so I would think our hope is that Mayo and Norris can be the backup LBs for the next few years. Need to look in 2017 draft for a Thomas Davis replacement. Mcgee and our 7th rounder will hopefully fight it out for TE2/3 and it would be nice if one of them contributed to the offense over the next couple years. Stoshak, no idea, maybe special teams? I can't imagine him making a dent anywhere else. He isn't as fast or big as Garrett and he isn't going to beat out the other guys, so special teams or release.

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Something to chew on for you guys since there is little news until summer.

Here is a list of 2017 FAs.

Player Position Age 2016 Salary
Expensive Resigns      
Kawann Short DT 27 $1,157,584
Andrew Norwell G 24 $514,000
Too Expensive      
Charles Johnson DE 29 $3,000,000
Kurt Coleman FS 27 $1,400,000
A.J. Klein ILB 24 $587,825
Brandon Boykin CB 25 $840,000
I think they'll be back, reasonable      
Ryan Kalil C 31 $8,186,000
Michael Oher LT 29 $3,500,000
Ted Ginn Jr. WR 31 $2,100,000
Mario Addison DE 28 $1,280,000
Mike Remmers RT 27 $2,553,000
Colin Jones FS 28 $927,500
Corey Brown WR 24 $515,000
Robert McClain CB 27 $752,500
Fozzy Whittaker RB 27 $680,000
Chris Scott G 28 $840,000
Kyle Love DT 29 $840,000
Trenton Robinson FS 26 $840,000

 

I have no idea why the blue lines pasted in, but I can't get rid of it. It doesn't mean anything. The biggest glaring issue is that 4 of our 5 offensive lineman are free agents after 2016. Heck, Trai Turner is a FA after 2017. I think Kalil is a Panther for life, so main worry there is retirement. I think if not, he will be a reasonable signing like Charles Johnson. Oher and Remmers could be reasonable as well. I don't think anyone is breaking the bank for either of them.

I think part of our savings will have to go to extending Norwell and Short and maybe Turner as well. I think some combination of Kalil, Oher and Remmers is back as well, but we still need some young blood to jump in and hopefully Daryl Williams is part of that and the 2017 draft is as well. DE wise, I think Johnson has a great year and moves on. Addison should be relatively easy to resign and hopefully Delaire as well (I am high on him).

I don't think any of those four under too expensive will be back because they'll likely be too much considering the following guys who are going to break our bank soon and the younger guys we've drafted:

Short, Norwell, Turner (after 2017), Lotulelei (after 2017), Ealy (after 2017)

So, in my opinion, we are going to have to go OT heavy in the 2017 draft and possibly DE depending on if any of the younger guys look promising.

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Obviously way to early, but this mock has us taking OT #5 in the first round (LINK), so at first blush, it appears that at first blush the OTs should be decent. This year there were 4, but Conklin/Decker weren't universally mocked as early as they went in the early mocks. Maybe that means this is a better OT class. I tried searching and it is probably way too early. That draft also 4 RBs and 6 DEs listed so maybe we were looking a little ahead as it seems like OT/DE is more than 1/3 of that mock.

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Enjoy the rest of the off season, just wanted to throw out some get ready for 2017 draft way too early stuff to make ourselves understand the lack of OT/DE drafting. Personally, I wasn't a big fan of the DEs in 2016. There were a couple early I liked, but it sure looks like 2017 may be shaping up to be similar to 2016 DTs based on 6 DEs in the first mock. That would fit real nice if OT/DE is the strength of the next draft. Adios and good luck Panthers. Go DG, time to extend the hog mollies.

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On May 1, 2016 at 10:31 PM, Sammy3469 said:

One of the UFA guys they did sign was S Jeremy Cash.  Started the process as a 3rd-4th round pick, but he had bad combine numbers and dropped out of the draft.  I wouldn't be too shocked if he ends up making the roster.  

Didn't perform at combine because of hammy. Ran a 4.53 or so at pro day.

rumored to of had some medical red flag which dropped him

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2 hours ago, FDC said:

Didn't perform at combine because of hammy. Ran a 4.53 or so at pro day.

rumored to of had some medical red flag which dropped him

I think the medical red flag was that he got hurt for the bowl game, then pulled a hammy at the combine and then again at the pro-day. I think his 40 time was from his personal workout on 4/13. It was just a string of injuries since the bowl game.

What's funny about the injury issues is that Bowl game is the first game he missed in 3 years at Duke. He never missed another game and due to re-aggravating a hammy at the pro-day he dropped out of the draft when he was rated as a 3rd/4th rounder in most sites.

I think he is a great pickup for the Panthers and if bulks up a little bit, maybe he is the replacement for Thomas Davis in a couple years and starts with Thompson and Kuechly.

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20 hours ago, stbugs said:

He's likely the first one cut and the one I don't see much impact at all.

I think Cash and Garrett will have actual impacts (outside of special teams) in 2016. I like Devon Johnson as a potential Tolbert replacement and he might contribute this year, not sure. I like Jared Norris (not on FBG's list) as a guy who could fill in as a backup LB when AJ Klein leaves after 2016. I think Klein looked good enough in filling in for Kuechly that he is going to sign a decent size deal we can't afford. Ben Jacobs is already 28, so I would think our hope is that Mayo and Norris can be the backup LBs for the next few years. Need to look in 2017 draft for a Thomas Davis replacement. Mcgee and our 7th rounder will hopefully fight it out for TE2/3 and it would be nice if one of them contributed to the offense over the next couple years. Stoshak, no idea, maybe special teams? I can't imagine him making a dent anywhere else. He isn't as fast or big as Garrett and he isn't going to beat out the other guys, so special teams or release.

We already have TDs replacement in Thompson.

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Guys Thompson is TDs replacement. We don't.really have 3 linebackers on the field that much. We play a lot.with an extra DB instead. I think I read we do that more than anyone else but I could be wrong on that.That's another reason size and ability to play the run means so much to us when picking these guys.

 

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Just now, NCCommish said:

We already have TDs replacement in Thompson.

You know what I mean, the third LB. Thompson will be out there with Kuechly and Davis. Maybe Cash can replace Thompson when he replaces Davis, but not sure if he'll be big enough. He's got a few pounds to gain, but a couple years to do it.

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7 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

Guys Thompson is TDs replacement. We don't.really have 3 linebackers on the field that much. We play a lot.with an extra DB instead. I think I read we do that more than anyone else but I could be wrong on that.That's another reason size and ability to play the run means so much to us when picking these guys.

 

I could be wrong, but I thought the whole point of adding Thompson was to be able to match up to a lot of offenses with our base defense INSTEAD of having to throw a 5th DB on the field... Thompson and Davis run and cover well enough to pull that off.

 

As to if they actually did that last year?  Not sure... but that was my understanding of the rationale there.

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12 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

Guys Thompson is TDs replacement. We don't.really have 3 linebackers on the field that much. We play a lot.with an extra DB instead. I think I read we do that more than anyone else but I could be wrong on that.That's another reason size and ability to play the run means so much to us when picking these guys.

 

Once Thompson starting playing a lot it seemed like the 3 of them were out there a lot. Thompson played in coverage quite a bit, like the Arizona game where he covered Fitz.

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4 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

I could be wrong, but I thought the whole point of adding Thompson was to be able to match up to a lot of offenses with our base defense INSTEAD of having to throw a 5th DB on the field... Thompson and Davis run and cover well enough to pull that off.

 

As to if they actually did that last year?  Not sure... but that was my understanding of the rationale there.

Agreed, pretty sure the 3 of them were on the field a lot, especially as Thompson got better. I'll check snap counts.

Looking at pro-football-reference, Kuechly was pretty much 100% when he was healthy except blow out games where he was 70-80% and then likely got rested. Thomas Davis was almost identical, 100%, except in the blowouts over Tampa, Washington, Dallas and Atlanta. Shaq and AJ (and Ben Jacobs) seemed to be around 40% snap counts, so seems like maybe more than half was 2 LBers and less than half 3 LBers.

That said, seemed like Thompson got a lot of playing time in the playoffs, but I don't see snap counts for those games.

Edited by stbugs

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7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Agreed, pretty sure the 3 of them were on the field a lot, especially as Thompson got better. I'll check snap counts.

If you can, check the second half of the year... I feel like that's when Thompson started really making plays and being on the field a ton.  I don't have time to dig into it all.

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Been a while since I've been able to get back on here between the newborn twins and work and everything else... so a couple of thoughts:

-- On Norman - I think he's 70% to blame with DG 30% to blame.  My guess is they reached out to Norman at some point and said, "This really isn't going well," and Norman toed the line his agent set.  Maybe he pressed his luck too much, or maybe he listened to the awful advice of his agent too literally.  If DG reached out, and Norman said, "Handle it with my agent,"  well... what's he supposed to do?  No one was paying more than a 4th or 5th plus the contract to sign Norman (our 3rd next year is worth more than any of the offers would've been).  Unfortunately it was poorly handled, and we'll never hear the full story from the team perspective, but I blame Norman mostly for hiring a terrible agent and then staying so hands off.

 

-- On the draft - loved the first rounder.  Felt a lot like they were throwing DBs at the wall to see what sticks after that, BUT remember last year how they were completely cratered down the stretch in the secondary?  My guess is they felt like THAT was more of a problem than the OTs or the other spots on the team.  At this point, I trust DG with whatever he does until he proves unworthy of that trust.  If that means taking 3 secondary guys back to back, and using them with what's already in house to build the team... cool.  Sounds good to me.  I don't trust what Walterfootball.com or any of these other sites say anymore than I trust what Kiper or McS#it say... they're not scouts for a reason.  Several "draftniks" on twitter LOVED Bradberry.  Guess I've just learned to trust Gettleman in these things.  He's only really whiffed very badly on Kugbila... and pretty much crushed everywhere else. 

 

-- On the UDFAs - absolutely slayed by GMan and staff... what a haul.  Wouldn't be at all surprised to see 3 or 4 of those guys make the roster, specifically Cash and Garrett, then another one or two are possible.  I too wish we'd looked at RB a little more closely, but don't forget about Brandon Wegher, who made the team last year as an UDFA.  Wegher was once highly touted as a prospect when he played at Iowa... maybe he just needs time and coaching.  I think CAP is OK, but not starter-worthy down the line.  That said, RB is about as plug-and-play as a position can get.  IF it's an issue next year, they can always draft a rookie to step in.

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15 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

If you can, check the second half of the year... I feel like that's when Thompson started really making plays and being on the field a ton.  I don't have time to dig into it all.

Really interesting, game by game. Against Seattle Shaq played 6% of the game, against Arizona he played 84%, so Seattle was 4-2-5 and Arizona was 4-3-4. Remember that Davis got hurt, but he and Klein still played 60% of the game a huge difference in the two games. Denver was 40% 3 LBers and 60% 5 DBs.

Edited by stbugs

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That said, Shaq Thompson was a rookie, so I'm going to assume he wasn't fully ready for everything. I'd be really interested to see if things change this year or stay the same. I honestly have no idea how the defensive backfield is going to look at the start of this year or heck the end of the season. Harper, Tillman, Finnegan and Norman are all gone. Together, their snap counts, including injuries were 270%, or almost 3 whole players.

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30 minutes ago, stbugs said:

That said, Shaq Thompson was a rookie, so I'm going to assume he wasn't fully ready for everything. I'd be really interested to see if things change this year or stay the same. I honestly have no idea how the defensive backfield is going to look at the start of this year or heck the end of the season. Harper, Tillman, Finnegan and Norman are all gone. Together, their snap counts, including injuries were 270%, or almost 3 whole players.

I think you'll see the 3 lbs until TD steps out. The reality is there are not a lot of guys who can play like him and we got another one. If we get lucky enough to get a third I guess we'll see. 

As to.the DBs this year. I think Worley starts opposite Bene assuming Bene makes a full recovery. I just see him winning the pre-season amongst the rookies for some reason. I think k the Oklahoma kid is being Boykin in the slot. Bradberry is a backup. All first impression opinion.

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57 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Really interesting, game by game. Against Seattle Shaq played 6% of the game, against Arizona he played 84%, so Seattle was 4-2-5 and Arizona was 4-3-4. Remember that Davis got hurt, but he and Klein still played 60% of the game a huge difference in the two games. Denver was 40% 3 LBers and 60% 5 DBs.

No wonder it seemed like they had guys running free half the time.  I'm not sure I could even name 5 DBs we had on the roster at that point... Harper, Coleman, Boston, Finnegan, McClain I guess.  Woof.

Back to what I said earlier, maybe THAT'S why GMan drafted so many DBs... restock the shelves in case injuries occur again so we're not left playing street FAs in the most important games of the year.

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1 hour ago, JFS171 said:

I too wish we'd looked at RB a little more closely, but don't forget about Brandon Wegher, who made the team last year as an UDFA.  Wegher was once highly touted as a prospect when he played at Iowa... maybe he just needs time and coaching.  I think CAP is OK, but not starter-worthy down the line.  That said, RB is about as plug-and-play as a position can get.  IF it's an issue next year, they can always draft a rookie to step in.

I've always liked Wegher.  He made a small splash in preseason last year when he got the opportunity and I wouldn't mind him getting a fair shot to play.  

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1 hour ago, Jayrok said:

I've always liked Wegher.  He made a small splash in preseason last year when he got the opportunity and I wouldn't mind him getting a fair shot to play.  

I'm interested to see Devon Johnson as well. Seems like he was one of those guys who was hurt and slid because of that. He had a great 2014. Marshall's not in the SEC, but he was first team all-conference in 2014, so not bad at all. He doesn't appear to be a wiggle RB, but at 6' 238 lbs, he ran a 4.59 at his pro-day. Seems like he is a one-cut type of guy, but he did play TE his first two years, so might be a Tolbert replacement, i.e. big hard nosed runner who has the ability to catch some balls.

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15 hours ago, stbugs said:

I'm interested to see Devon Johnson as well. Seems like he was one of those guys who was hurt and slid because of that. He had a great 2014. Marshall's not in the SEC, but he was first team all-conference in 2014, so not bad at all. He doesn't appear to be a wiggle RB, but at 6' 238 lbs, he ran a 4.59 at his pro-day. Seems like he is a one-cut type of guy, but he did play TE his first two years, so might be a Tolbert replacement, i.e. big hard nosed runner who has the ability to catch some balls.

What do you think about the FB/TE, Bonnet, they took from ND State?  He's 6'3, 245.  That's a load as a lead blocker.  

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7 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

What do you think about the FB/TE, Bonnet, they took from ND State?  He's 6'3, 245.  That's a load as a lead blocker.  

Seems like just a blocker. It'll be interesting to watch some of these guys but I don't know if he's got enough running ability to be a Tolbert replacement. I also don't know anything about how good a receiver he can be. 

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Will definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out with the RBs and FBs.  With the way the league is heading, not sure Tolbert's role will exist past Tolbert... what if he's a unicorn?

Sure feels like Carolina's always going to want a FB with the type of offense they're running, but they're also getting Cam a lot more weapons in the passing game too... so maybe the offense starts to shift slightly.All that said, Johnson may push Wegher for the roster spot (or they both push someone else off the squad -- keeping 5 RBs may be extreme unless they earn it)...

Johnson was at the combine but didn't participate in anything best I can tell.  Some of his Pro Day results are pretty interesting... 40-time of 4.61 (4.59-4.63 range), 3-cone of 7.09 -- performed at 238lbs.

Speed Score is supposed to level the playing field for bigger dudes, and 100 is, in theory, a baseline for NFL success... Johnson's was a 105.39.  That would have placed him neck and neck with Daniel Lasco for the 6th highest speed score in this class.  His 3-cone time, again at nearly 240 pounds, would've been 8th best among RBs at the combine, ahead of Derek Henry's by more than a 10th of a second (Henry's was 7.20).

A lot of draftniks thought Henry was a great fit for Carolina -- the ability to throw such a big bruiser in the backfield next to Cam and run power football.  Maybe Johnson's our under-the-radar Derek Henry?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

Will definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out with the RBs and FBs.  With the way the league is heading, not sure Tolbert's role will exist past Tolbert... what if he's a unicorn?

Sure feels like Carolina's always going to want a FB with the type of offense they're running, but they're also getting Cam a lot more weapons in the passing game too... so maybe the offense starts to shift slightly.All that said, Johnson may push Wegher for the roster spot (or they both push someone else off the squad -- keeping 5 RBs may be extreme unless they earn it)...

Johnson was at the combine but didn't participate in anything best I can tell.  Some of his Pro Day results are pretty interesting... 40-time of 4.61 (4.59-4.63 range), 3-cone of 7.09 -- performed at 238lbs.

Speed Score is supposed to level the playing field for bigger dudes, and 100 is, in theory, a baseline for NFL success... Johnson's was a 105.39.  That would have placed him neck and neck with Daniel Lasco for the 6th highest speed score in this class.  His 3-cone time, again at nearly 240 pounds, would've been 8th best among RBs at the combine, ahead of Derek Henry's by more than a 10th of a second (Henry's was 7.20).

A lot of draftniks thought Henry was a great fit for Carolina -- the ability to throw such a big bruiser in the backfield next to Cam and run power football.  Maybe Johnson's our under-the-radar Derek Henry?

 

 

I hope Johnson does well, seems like he's got that receiving ability since he started as a TE and he did really, really well in 2014. He got hurt in 2015. I think Tolbert's role will remain if we get a guy like him. He's mean, doesn't go down on first contact, can catch the ball and just goes all out to get every yard. Johnson seems like he could do the same, I hope. I don't see him as a Stewart (DeAngelo) replacement.

I really like our UDFAs and I think the only one I really would have loved to have gotten was Jack Allen. I think C is going to be a need and he was ranked high for Cs and I was shocked he wasn't drafted. Maybe he ends up not doing well, but he seemed to be a great UDFA signing for us with Kalil in the last year of his deal. Who knows if Kalil hangs it up or stays in town.

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Olsen was on Inside Amy Schumer in a skit with several other players including Strahan. Didn't do to bad. Easily see him in a broadcast capacity after he retires.

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I really like the kind of men this team seems to have. Charles Johnson is putting the finishing touches on an affordable housing project in Columbia aimed at households with single moms. Maybe he hasn't always seemed worth the contract on the field but when you look at how he has used his.money I'm glad he got it.

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Reports are circulating that say KK and the team are in talks on extension. Seems like a no brainier hope they can get it done.

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28 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

Reports are circulating that say KK and the team are in talks on extension. Seems like a no brainier hope they can get it done.

Agreed, have to get that done. I think he and Ealy are must haves, although I am making an assumption that Ealy is going to take a leap like Short did. Ealy is still under contract the next two years.

I am wondering if Vernon Butler looks good then will we not extend Star? We've got him pretty cheap this year and next and Butler we've got pretty cheap for the next 5 (with the option, again assuming he plays well). Maybe Star won't be anywhere near the cost of Short because he isn't tallying sacks and isn't going to the Pro-Bowl, but it does make me wonder if we'd try to save money there.

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8 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Agreed, have to get that done. I think he and Ealy are must haves, although I am making an assumption that Ealy is going to take a leap like Short did. Ealy is still under contract the next two years.

I am wondering if Vernon Butler looks good then will we not extend Star? We've got him pretty cheap this year and next and Butler we've got pretty cheap for the next 5 (with the option, again assuming he plays well). Maybe Star won't be anywhere near the cost of Short because he isn't tallying sacks and isn't going to the Pro-Bowl, but it does make me wonder if we'd try to save money there.

Butler is definitely insurance. I am hearing Star will be cheaper, but not much, than KK.

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How do you all see the WRs panning out?  KB and Ginn on the outside?  Funchess outside?  Brown as the 4th receiver?  Today's FBG email alluded to Brown manning the slot - but that would seem to indicate he's a top 3 guy. Which I just can't see with everyone healthy.

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1 hour ago, FUBAR said:

How do you all see the WRs panning out?  KB and Ginn on the outside?  Funchess outside?  Brown as the 4th receiver?  Today's FBG email alluded to Brown manning the slot - but that would seem to indicate he's a top 3 guy. Which I just can't see with everyone healthy.

I think he is. I think Brown gets overlooked, but outside of the long bombs I think he will be a better WR than Ginn. I could see Ginn and Funchess swapping up depending upon situations (red zone Funchess vs long field Ginn). Funchess may also swap out some with Brown.

That said, I have no clue outside of Benjamin being the #1 once back healthy. The other three who knows?

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2 hours ago, NCCommish said:

Butler is definitely insurance. I am hearing Star will be cheaper, but not much, than KK.

I think he should be a lot lower than Short. There's around 6 DTs making around 10M+ and just a few of those are in the 15Mish range I expect Short to be in. I don't see Star commanding the 10M range which is for the pass rushing DTs. The next level is 6-7M. Maybe Star is in between but I can't imagine him approaching 10M. I know we mentioned it but I went back and looked at top DT salaries I don't think Star is going to get that level anymore. 

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3 hours ago, stbugs said:

I think he should be a lot lower than Short. There's around 6 DTs making around 10M+ and just a few of those are in the 15Mish range I expect Short to be in. I don't see Star commanding the 10M range which is for the pass rushing DTs. The next level is 6-7M. Maybe Star is in between but I can't imagine him approaching 10M. I know we mentioned it but I went back and looked at top DT salaries I don't think Star is going to get that level anymore. 

I think he'll command more than that. I am reading 8-10. His stats don't reflect his value to this team or to the rest of the DL. He would be a big deal if he hit FA. Teams with a weak Dline would definitely bid him up. Copycat league and a lot of teams want to be Denver/Carolina now. At least on D.

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13 hours ago, NCCommish said:

I think he'll command more than that. I am reading 8-10. His stats don't reflect his value to this team or to the rest of the DL. He would be a big deal if he hit FA. Teams with a weak Dline would definitely bid him up. Copycat league and a lot of teams want to be Denver/Carolina now. At least on D.

I can see closer to 8, but looking at the salaries I can't see him in the 10M range. I didn't realize the big gap between the top DTs (with pash rushing ability) and the NT-like run stuffers. Harrison with the Giants is the biggest I saw and that was 9 per season and he was an unrestricted free agent that the Giants threw money at (overspent). 

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1 hour ago, stbugs said:

I can see closer to 8, but looking at the salaries I can't see him in the 10M range. I didn't realize the big gap between the top DTs (with pash rushing ability) and the NT-like run stuffers. Harrison with the Giants is the biggest I saw and that was 9 per season and he was an unrestricted free agent that the Giants threw money at (overspent). 

You have to take into account the rising cap and the reality is when teams overpay they set the new bar to a degree. But hey I hope we can get him in the 8 range that should be doable.

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2 hours ago, NCCommish said:

You have to take into account the rising cap and the reality is when teams overpay they set the new bar to a degree. But hey I hope we can get him in the 8 range that should be doable.

Makes sense. The new overpay was 9, so maybe we can get him for 8. I think Short is going to be 15, which is crazy money. Any less than that is a win. I think this is what they were thinking about when letting Norman go. If Ealy has a great year that's likely another big contract. No way to keep Norman and if his extra 14 lets us keep 1 more DL, I think it's worth it. 

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34 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Makes sense. The new overpay was 9, so maybe we can get him for 8. I think Short is going to be 15, which is crazy money. Any less than that is a win. I think this is what they were thinking about when letting Norman go. If Ealy has a great year that's likely another big contract. No way to keep Norman and if his extra 14 lets us keep 1 more DL, I think it's worth it. 

Yeah 15 per year 6 years 50 guaranteed seems to be the consensus guess on Short.

I agree that not signing Norman was partly motivates by wanting to keep other guys. We always talk about DL let's not forget LBs. For instance the talk is the Panthers want to keep Klein. The staff like's him a lot and he is a good locker room guy. And then there's Coleman. Another year like last and letting him.go would be tough but he may be to pricy by then. Lots of decisions coming some will be unpopular.

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24 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

Yeah 15 per year 6 years 50 guaranteed seems to be the consensus guess on Short.

I agree that not signing Norman was partly motivates by wanting to keep other guys. We always talk about DL let's not forget LBs. For instance the talk is the Panthers want to keep Klein. The staff like's him a lot and he is a good locker room guy. And then there's Coleman. Another year like last and letting him.go would be tough but he may be to pricy by then. Lots of decisions coming some will be unpopular.

Sort of the con of drafting well. I know we like Klein and Coleman but it just feels like they'll got offers we can't match. Maybe Klein won't, but if Coleman is near the top in INTs again it's going to be hard to keep him. It'll be interesting to see where Cash fits in and how the CBs work out because Bradberry played S as well. Also, I hope Boykin plays really well, but again a stellar year and he'll be hard to keep as well with some of the other young guys. Don't forget that Turner, Norwell and Kalil are all up this year or next. Benjamin and Thompson have the extra 5th year option but damn so many good young players to sign. 

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1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Sort of the con of drafting well. I know we like Klein and Coleman but it just feels like they'll got offers we can't match. Maybe Klein won't, but if Coleman is near the top in INTs again it's going to be hard to keep him. It'll be interesting to see where Cash fits in and how the CBs work out because Bradberry played S as well. Also, I hope Boykin plays really well, but again a stellar year and he'll be hard to keep as well with some of the other young guys. Don't forget that Turner, Norwell and Kalil are all up this year or next. Benjamin and Thompson have the extra 5th year option but damn so many good young players to sign. 

Yeah got to keep Turner and Norwell. We really are getting great play from.them. Kalil is a concern. He is going to be very hard to replace. His leadership was and is so vital to that line. I would really like a young guy learning from him for a season before he calls it. I think Williams takes over at RT this season. I also think he is the only guy on the roster that could be a legit LT other than Oher who was good enough for the most part. Hes got the ability to move you need. He's a 4 year guy so he'll be up season after next for a decision 

Going to take some serious cap wizardy and some choices that hurt to not be right back in cap hell.

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The more I think about it the more it seems to me that if Butler is what we hope you almost have to let Star walk after his option year. You're going to need the cap space and you got Butler on the cheap for 3 more years. By then hopefully you can do him a deal and draft Shorts replacement. Smart planned turnover is key to long term.winning.

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39 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

Yeah got to keep Turner and Norwell. We really are getting great play from.them. Kalil is a concern. He is going to be very hard to replace. His leadership was and is so vital to that line. I would really like a young guy learning from him for a season before he calls it. I think Williams takes over at RT this season. I also think he is the only guy on the roster that could be a legit LT other than Oher who was good enough for the most part. Hes got the ability to move you need. He's a 4 year guy so he'll be up season after next for a decision 

Going to take some serious cap wizardy and some choices that hurt to not be right back in cap hell.

I'm hoping that Kalil will pull a Johnson and sign a team friendly deal since I think he signed one of the Hurney $$$ contracts like Johnson. It would be nice to keep him for 2 more years before he likely retires. I was really hoping we'd get Jack Allen from MSU as an UDFA. He was top 5 C ranking and could have been groomed but maybe that is next year's pickup.

Honestly, it'll be less salary cap wizardry and more good drafting. That's the only way it continues.

I'd say we are in great shape for the next few years at LB (Davis retires soon, but Shaq, Cash and maybe Klein), CB, DT (Short will get done), QB, G/RT. We are in decent shape but need to develop guys at RB, TE and S. We could have really dire needs at C, DE and LT. I think DE and T are going to be the 2017 draft. 

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9 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

The more I think about it the more it seems to me that if Butler is what we hope you almost have to let Star walk after his option year. You're going to need the cap space and you got Butler on the cheap for 3 more years. By then hopefully you can do him a deal and draft Shorts replacement. Smart planned turnover is key to long term.winning.

I think you may be right. I don't think Butler was  drafted for that, but it wouldn't surprise me if that happens. If Ealy and Turner continue to progress and play at the top, all of a sudden you have less to work with. Heck if Williams takes over and shines he becomes harder to afford as well. That's where the draft has to bear fruit every year. Teams like SF who was a SB team a few years ago die on the vine due to horrific drafts. 

Edited by stbugs

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Luke number 3 overall best player in 2015 according to PFF. Best MLB in the NFL in coverage. Allowed a 48.5% completion average when he was in coverage. Thats incredible. Said he probably would have been number one but the missed games cost him some stats.

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Sounds about right.  Luke is the best LB in the league.  

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1 hour ago, NCCommish said:

Luke number 3 overall best player in 2015 according to PFF. Best MLB in the NFL in coverage. Allowed a 48.5% completion average when he was in coverage. Thats incredible. Said he probably would have been number one but the missed games cost him some stats.

He is great in pass coverage. Even though Julio beat us with that great grab over Kuechly for the long TD, what amazed me was that Kuechly was right there with Julio 40 yards downfield. It took a perfect throw and catch. He's an amazing player.

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Luke, Kalil and Olsen are going to be on a new reality show. The premise is pro athletes take the show to their favorite restaurants in the city they play in.

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