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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** - Inflate Your Balls, We Found Our Brady

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13 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

I thought Allen looked fantastic in just his 3rd start

Thanks. I was kind of wondering this. I saw that the Panthers got the W. I also saw he didn’t throw a TD so I was wondering how he looked. Pretty solid then? 

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Allen looked fine and made a few key throws that secured the win.  He was stripped of the ball while in the pocket 3 times, that's all.  

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1 hour ago, NCCommish said:

This seems unfair. Against a pretty decent defense an oline with a rookie left tackle held it's own and looks to be coming together as Paradis looks more comfortable every week. The defense continues to look ever more dominate. One of the best pass defenses in the league and tied for first in sacks. And we are missing KK. CMC now shares a record with Jim Brown for rushing and touchdowns in the first 4 games. And Will "who?" Allen kept his composure and kept playing. We got a second road win in a row. That is not an easy thing even at the best of times. Much less when your franchise QB is out and there is no real timetable for his return. This was a good, neccessary win that we will hopefully follow up successfully. 

Back to square one - .500 like before the season 

Stole one - beat a playoff caliber team on the road

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1 hour ago, NCCommish said:

This seems unfair. Against a pretty decent defense an oline with a rookie left tackle held it's own and looks to be coming together as Paradis looks more comfortable every week. The defense continues to look ever more dominate. One of the best pass defenses in the league and tied for first in sacks. And we are missing KK. CMC now shares a record with Jim Brown for rushing and touchdowns in the first 4 games. And Will "who?" Allen kept his composure and kept playing. We got a second road win in a row. That is not an easy thing even at the best of times. Much less when your franchise QB is out and there is no real timetable for his return. This was a good, neccessary win that we will hopefully follow up successfully. 

Back to square one - .500 like before the season 

Stole one - beat a playoff caliber team on the road

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I thought Allen was really really good. Yeah, a bunch of fumbles. Well, one was not his fault and was the tackle just flat out getting immediately beat. He does need to have some better awareness, but otherwise he has been very good passing the ball and making good decisions. We can absolutely win with him until Cam gets to 100%. 

Defense is balling out. Really like what I see.

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Are Carolina fans seeing Allen as a stopgap until Cam comes back or next year's draft, or does he look like a potential long-term starter?

Lucked into him after a speculative waiver pickup, and thinking of cashing out...

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1 minute ago, Arodin said:

Are Carolina fans seeing Allen as a stopgap until Cam comes back or next year's draft, or does he look like a potential long-term starter?

Lucked into him after a speculative waiver pickup, and thinking of cashing out...

Cams job once he’s healthy which might be next year. Thinks wentz / foles

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1 minute ago, BassNBrew said:

Cams job once he’s healthy which might be next year. Thinks wentz / foles

Do you think that, like Foles, he is starter material elsewhere then?  Or does he sit behind Cam and wait for the next injury?

Sounds like the Cam owner would be the person to target with any trade offers.

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3 minutes ago, Arodin said:

Do you think that, like Foles, he is starter material elsewhere then?  Or does he sit behind Cam and wait for the next injury?

Sounds like the Cam owner would be the person to target with any trade offers.

Haven’t seen enough of him to know. I do know if cam gets his legs and deep ball back he’s got the weapons to hang huge numbers 

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2 minutes ago, Arodin said:

Do you think that, like Foles, he is starter material elsewhere then?  Or does he sit behind Cam and wait for the next injury?

Sounds like the Cam owner would be the person to target with any trade offers.

Here is a great article going through the scenarios with cam.   https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/26/20884805/five-timelines-cam-newton-future-carolina-panthers

 

I am the biggest cam fluffer on this board and I want nothing more than for him to come back to his old ways.  My head however tells me that running style is not sustainable and Allen has some real talent.  The best case scenario is to shut cam down for the season and just make him do a hard reset.  The problem with that however is if Allen somehow guides the team to the playoffs then things get tricky.  There will be a market for a healthy cam but do you really want to move on from him at age 31?  If Allen falters and doesnt make playoffs then Cam is in a contract year with every thing to play for.

 

Fun times to be a Panther fan.  But the answer to your question is that Allen has looked above average with room to grow as a pocket passer

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2 hours ago, pantherclub said:

Here is a great article going through the scenarios with cam.   https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/9/26/20884805/five-timelines-cam-newton-future-carolina-panthers

 

I am the biggest cam fluffer on this board and I want nothing more than for him to come back to his old ways.  My head however tells me that running style is not sustainable and Allen has some real talent.  The best case scenario is to shut cam down for the season and just make him do a hard reset.  The problem with that however is if Allen somehow guides the team to the playoffs then things get tricky.  There will be a market for a healthy cam but do you really want to move on from him at age 31?  If Allen falters and doesnt make playoffs then Cam is in a contract year with every thing to play for.

 

Fun times to be a Panther fan.  But the answer to your question is that Allen has looked above average with room to grow as a pocket passer

Even if moving on from Cam in favor of Allen was the right call (which I don't think it is), I don't see it happening any time soon. Coaches/GMs are generally risk adverse and would rather give the Flaccos, Daltons and Bortles far longer leash than they deserve. Unless your name is Alex Smith, you don't really get replaced while your team is competitive. That may change as more teams wake up to the fact that a good QB on a rookie deal is the best situation a team can be in, but right now I can't see the Panthers moving on from Cam until we see an extended decline period for Cam. It has to be long enough that it's obvious to everyone its not going to get better

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A nice win but, wow, what a gut wrenching game.  Offsides on last play... hands to the face on last play... opportunity after opportunity to lose the game.  

CMC... love fest continues.  Couple of Allen Iverson ankle break moves yesterday.  

3rd and a foot at the 4.  Let's have a halfback pass, even though they basically ran the ball between tackles to get down there.  But anyway, Allen needs to recognize defensive fronts and make good decisions to change the play.  On that silly play, no one was over the center.  Just audible to QB sneak to get that first down.  Just follow the center, easy peasy.  Turner getting too cute down there when the run game was working.  But Allen should have made a vet QB call there and got the first down.  The next play the QB sneak wasn't there as they loaded the box. 

Wish Allen would step up and run when there are open lanes for a first down.  Menshew did it multiple times.  Allen stands there and gets the ball stripped and/or takes the sack. 

Speaking of Menshew, to allow him to just sit back in the pocket like he's playing backyard football was not working near the end.  Even the best DBs can't cover WR for 8-9 seconds.  Rushing 3 or 4 with 7 playing prevent always results in a nail-biter finish.  How about a blitz now and then to make him get rid of the ball?  

Really missed Donte Jackson yesterday.  Cockrell was a liability back there.  Other than a couple of nice plays when Bradberry was on him, DJ Chark was unguardable.  

Still, a good win vs a decent AFC opponent.  Good to see Bonnafon run with success.  Really need to spell CMC at different points during games.  At this rate, he's going to have a short career.  

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I was way too harsh last week in complaining that the team is on a treadmill. I’m still not sure where we are in terms of playoffs/contending but there are some good things developing. Burns is showing out and hopefully the pass defense recovers when Jackson comes back. They really need to develop Moore and Curtis both to ease off CMC’s workload and to add some versatility to the offense. I haven’t been watching closely enough to tell if Moore still has a ways to go or if he’s just not part of the plan. To me he could be/should be a difference maker. 

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12 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

havent read the thread but has cam newton lost his job?

No

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20 minutes ago, DAG said:

I was way too harsh last week in complaining that the team is on a treadmill. I’m still not sure where we are in terms of playoffs/contending but there are some good things developing. Burns is showing out and hopefully the pass defense recovers when Jackson comes back. They really need to develop Moore and Curtis both to ease off CMC’s workload and to add some versatility to the offense. I haven’t been watching closely enough to tell if Moore still has a ways to go or if he’s just not part of the plan. To me he could be/should be a difference maker. 

I think Moore might be having trouble separating/getting open.  He tends to disappear in the offense but he's too good a weapon to not be a part of the plan.  His best days are in front of him but I'd like to see him toughen up and fight for open space.  Maybe his route running isn't quite there yet.  

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22 minutes ago, DAG said:

They really need to develop Moore and Curtis both to ease off CMC’s workload and to add some versatility to the offense. I haven’t been watching closely enough to tell if Moore still has a ways to go or if he’s just not part of the plan. To me he could be/should be a difference maker. 

I liked how they used Samuel in the running game yesterday. 

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5 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

I think Moore might be having trouble separating/getting open.  He tends to disappear in the offense but he's too good a weapon to not be a part of the plan.  His best days are in front of him but I'd like to see him toughen up and fight for open space.  Maybe his route running isn't quite there yet.  

DJ was doing fine the first two games of the season, but that was with Cam as QB. He was definitely targeted more by Cam, and I don't know if that was just by chance, game script, Cam's preference, or what.

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Steelers fan in NC here.  I was about to go to the game yesterday - wish I had.  CMC .....wow.

Not sure how you got Cockrell  - but you cannot have him guarding #1's like Chark.  He's a solid defender and smart player but that is it.  He played well for the Steelers at times but is over-matched by top tier WR's.

I have DJ on my team.  Perhaps as the CMC story grows he'll get better looks.

Ask Pittsburgh if Allen is starter material btw :)

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10 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

havent read the thread but has cam newton lost his job?

No.

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Not sure what to think of the team as a whole.

Three in a row is great. CMC is obviously amazing. Allen doing enough to win.

But I can't help but be worried about some of the yards and big plays our D is giving up. Need to get Jackson back in the fold, I think there's been a significant step down without him.

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22 minutes ago, Worm said:

Not sure what to think of the team as a whole.

Three in a row is great. CMC is obviously amazing. Allen doing enough to win.

But I can't help but be worried about some of the yards and big plays our D is giving up. Need to get Jackson back in the fold, I think there's been a significant step down without him.

Agreed.  Cockrell can't cover. 

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Curious to see what kind of Cam do we get when he returns.  Revitalized or more of the same slow-moving, over-throwing energy drainer.  Hoping for the former.  

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There are rumors of AJ Green being traded to Patriots (well of course!!), 49ers, Bills, even Saints among a few other teams. 

Why not the Panthers?  AJ split wide opposite Samuel and put DJ in the slot.  Middle of the pack first rounder vs AJ Green?   Wonder if Cincy would take Poe or one of the other d-linemen. 

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Great win.  Defense stepped up big yesterday.  Allen with another good performance.  Poised.

Just because Cam is healthy doesn't mean he is in playing shape.  Let Allen keep on keeping on and let Cam have a couple of weeks of practice to get into playing shape.  

Bye week and then a suddenly interesting trip to SF.  Niners are for real, especially that defense.  

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I feel like they have to give Allen the start against the 49ers. It'd be a huge test game for him going into Levi, 49ers defense playing out of their mind. If Allen still looks good and competent in that game, I'd seriously wonder how you could even debate pulling him for Newton, who really outside of 2 magical seasons has always been a runner who can throw rather than a passer who can run. The offense just seems more efficient from what I've seen w/ Allen under center than it's looked at any point under Cam really. Even going back to the MVP year, when you look at it outside a vacuum, Cam had a ton of short fields to put up the numbers he did in terms of scoring. 

This and Minshew/Foles are a really interesting situation right now. Curious to see how both are handled when the "starters" are back and healthy. 

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HUGE game coming up in a couple weeks. SF defense is extremely good. It will be extremely difficult to go cross country and win that game, but if they do... buckle in because it's going to be a fun rest of the season.

I thought Allen was better yesterday than he was against the Jags. Made some really nice throws, threw it away when he needed, and didn't make any mistakes. Bucs run D is really good and that was a really good win.

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6 minutes ago, Worm said:

HUGE game coming up in a couple weeks. SF defense is extremely good. It will be extremely difficult to go cross country and win that game, but if they do... buckle in because it's going to be a fun rest of the season.

I thought Allen was better yesterday than he was against the Jags. Made some really nice throws, threw it away when he needed, and didn't make any mistakes. Bucs run D is really good and that was a really good win.

I was thinking yesterday about the Texans.  Look at how well they are playing now.  Went into Arrowhead stadium and beat the Chiefs who were coming off a loss at home from Indy.  Watson is playing as good as any QB in the league right now and Carolina held him and that offense pretty well.  

This team doesn't have the flashy offense (outside of CMC of course) that Cam had in his MVP season, but the defense is tightening up nicely.  I was rough on Cockrell last week but he made some great plays yesterday.  

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Ray Ray McCloud waived today.  No surprise there.  I was actually surprised to see him back again returning punts after his fumble.  Who will replace him?  Surely not CMC.  Please no.

 

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Not much to say. Better team won yesterday.  Still, the defense was uncharacteristically (imo) shredded.  Long scores where the RB was untouched.  Out of position.  Not good. Not sure why T. Boston is even back there.  

I don't blame or judge Allen on a game against maybe the best defense in the NFL.  But I imagine Cam will be back in next week unless he isn't 100%.  Allen has been great, just a tough day, which, I think most people saw coming.  He's more than a serviceable backup.  

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13 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

Not much to say. Better team won yesterday.  Still, the defense was uncharacteristically (imo) shredded.  Long scores where the RB was untouched.  Out of position.  Not good. Not sure why T. Boston is even back there.  

I don't blame or judge Allen on a game against maybe the best defense in the NFL.  But I imagine Cam will be back in next week unless he isn't 100%.  Allen has been great, just a tough day, which, I think most people saw coming.  He's more than a serviceable backup.  

It's weird, but yesterday demonstrated why this team still needs Cam.  If you want to roll with Allen you'll need more receiving talent and a better group of 11 on defense.

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18 minutes ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

It's weird, but yesterday demonstrated why this team still needs Cam.  If you want to roll with Allen you'll need more receiving talent and a better group of 11 on defense.

He would have taken a major beatdown if he played Sunday. Only thing demonstrated yesterday is that SF is for real and their D is top of the line. Good luck to any QB playing them.

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29 minutes ago, lod001 said:

He would have taken a major beatdown if he played Sunday. Only thing demonstrated yesterday is that SF is for real and their D is top of the line. Good luck to any QB playing them.

Yeah I think Cam has a terrible day yesterday if he played.  Glad he sat. 

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50 minutes ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

It's weird, but yesterday demonstrated why this team still needs Cam.  If you want to roll with Allen you'll need more receiving talent and a better group of 11 on defense.

I never thought Allen was the answer at starting QB but I think he is and can be a reliable backup.  My worry is Cam's upcoming contract.  Not sure I want them to pay him what he is going to want.  

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If I’m the Panthers I tell Cam he’s playing for his next contract for the duration of this season. Let’s see how he responds...

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37 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

If I’m the Panthers I tell Cam he’s playing for his next contract for the duration of this season. Let’s see how he responds...

He has one more year on it

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56 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

If I’m the Panthers I tell Cam he’s playing for his next contract for the duration of this season. Let’s see how he responds...

I think this is a strong possibility. He had seemed checked out prior to his sitting. Almost wonder if theres some Andrew Luck "I just dont want to deal with this anymore" attitude there, but he likes/needs the money so just stick around and go through the motions. 

 

His contract only has 2 mil in dead cap for next year. That's nothing

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16 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I think this is a strong possibility. He had seemed checked out prior to his sitting. Almost wonder if theres some Andrew Luck "I just dont want to deal with this anymore" attitude there, but he likes/needs the money so just stick around and go through the motions. 

 

His contract only has 2 mil in dead cap for next year. That's nothing

I doubt he needs the money.

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1 hour ago, pantherclub said:

I doubt he needs the money.

I would have said the same about AP and many many other NFL athletes

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Good win and nice bounce back week for Allen.  

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The way cmac is playing they should just give him the ball on every play. Yesterday reminded me of the cornhuskers and sooners of years gone by. 

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I think the forced hand is good here.  It allows the team to focus on the rest of the season and makes Cam sit and get better.  Hopefully he comes back stronger and better than before next season.

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No problem with moving Cam to IR.  So the big question is what's next for him.  $19m for next season.  Will he be back stronger than ever?  More of the same? 

Is Cam on the trade block?  Can we get a '20 or '21 first for him?  2nd and 3rd?  

Someone floated out a trade with Chicago for Trubisky.  Oh good grief NO!  Would rather have draft picks.  

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Claimed Donte Moncrief.  Any impact there or just depth?  Wish he could manage to reach his full potential.  

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6 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

Claimed Donte Moncrief.  Any impact there or just depth?  Wish he could manage to reach his full potential.  

Maybe they will use him in the red zone some since he is now the Panthers tallest WR. Hopefully his finger has healed. TE's Olsen and Thomas are a bit taller, but Olsen has been blocking a lot this year. I guess that is due to the OL injuries. I wonder why they don't put two TE sets out there more. I'd like to see Thomas get more playing time.

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5 minutes ago, simey said:

Maybe they will use him in the red zone some since he is now the Panthers tallest WR. Hopefully his finger has healed. TE's Olsen and Thomas are a bit taller, but Olsen has been blocking a lot this year. I guess that is due to the OL injuries. I wonder why they don't put two TE sets out there more. I'd like to see Thomas get more playing time.

Thomas has been nonexistent this season.  Not sure if he's regressed or just not part of the game plan.  

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Not a bad effort against a good GB team.  Aside from the unfortunate fumble, I thought Allen played very well.  Seems to have nice chemistry with DJ and Olsen.  

The terrible call in the end zone didn't cost points but it did cost a chance for Carolina to get points after the punt.  And time of possession. F'n refs.  But great stuff at the GL at the end of that packer drive. 

Hard to blame the play calls in the end.  Tough sledding for CMC in the snow.  They just didn't have enough time.  Thought he might go airborne but the packer was there early.  

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That's two games where one more CMAC yard would have netted a win.  

Missed a golden opportunity to make up a game on NO.  I don't think a WC berth is an option Seattle/SF and GB/Minny.

Defense has been atrocious.  Rivera must be pissed about the lack of tackling.

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Yeah I don't see a playoff spot this year either.  The run defense is surprisingly bad.  

I hate to see the decline of Luke but he's no longer the dominant player he once was.  Still a great player but he's missed some sure tackles that he would gobble up in year's past.  

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