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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing

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13 hours ago, Jayrok said:

Joe Brady on how he would describe his offensive philosophy:

Bet he's looking forward to working with Christian.  

Nah...they would rather trade all our good players to rebuild with question marks.

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2 hours ago, pantherclub said:

Damn Cam.  Damn.

Stunning

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6 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Nah...they would rather trade all our good players to rebuild with question marks.

I fear that you may be right.  :(

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15 hours ago, BassNBrew said:
On 1/16/2020 at 1:12 PM, Jayrok said:

Joe Brady on how he would describe his offensive philosophy:

Bet he's looking forward to working with Christian.  

Nah...they would rather trade all our good players to rebuild with question marks.

What have they done to make you think that? 

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2 hours ago, simey said:

What have they done to make you think that? 

I was being sarcastic. Most here want to burn it down. These offensive coaches aren’t going to dump elite playmakers just to start over. 

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Winds of change blow on... Hate to see Olsen go but it was a great run for #88.  Will miss him.  I hope he retires and joins the broadcast booth instead of going to another team.

That said, will he be a redskin or bill next season?  

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56 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

Winds of change blow on... Hate to see Olsen go but it was a great run for #88.  Will miss him.  I hope he retires and joins the broadcast booth instead of going to another team.

That said, will he be a redskin or bill next season?  

I hope he retires but if he doesn't then I hope he lands with a team with a shot at going all the way. He will be missed, best trade in team history.

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I think this, without a doubt, signals the end of the newton era.   I feel a bit conflicted but in the end there is just no way he is 100% healthy and his body has just taken too much punishment to keep on a big deal.

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Christian McCaffrey:  Tot Yds: 2392 TD: 19  Receptions: 116 (142 targets) (Kyle Allen)  Only 3rd player in NFL history to enter the 1000/1000 club.  

Michael Thomas: Tot Yds: 1716  TD: Receptions: 149 (185 targets) (Drew Brees)

 

How does Thomas win offensive player of the year over CMC?  :shrug:

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On 1/15/2020 at 9:33 AM, Jayrok said:

I'm worried Rhule is going to grab Herbert in the first.  We have more glaring needs elsewhere imo. 

Okudah, Thomas, Simmons, D. Brown, other OT/G, safety

Isaiah Simmons.   6"3+, 238 lbs,  40:  4.39.  Tops for LB. 

Most versatile defender in the draft.  Reminds me of Jamal Adams, just bigger and faster.  Makes plays all over the field and loves to hit.  Can also cover athletic TEs and the slot. RBs out of the back field.

Hope he's still at 7 and we get him.  If not then a top OT or D. Brown.  

Just no QB in the first!  Bring back Cam.

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Posted (edited)

Faster 40 than WRs Odell Beckham, Julio Jones and AJ Green. 

Faster than S. Barkley,  Z. Elliott, A. Kamara and... Christian McCaffrey. 

Not bad for a 238 LB linebacker.   

Edited by Jayrok

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10 hours ago, Jayrok said:

Isaiah Simmons.   6"3+, 238 lbs,  40:  4.39.  Tops for LB. 

Most versatile defender in the draft.  Reminds me of Jamal Adams, just bigger and faster.  Makes plays all over the field and loves to hit.  Can also cover athletic TEs and the slot. RBs out of the back field.

Hope he's still at 7 and we get him.  If not then a top OT or D. Brown.  

Just no QB in the first!  Bring back Cam.

agree on no qb.  Also like Simmons a lot. 

 

Cam is not coming back.  I hate it but its the truth. 

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4 hours ago, whole-show said:

Panthers agree to trade Trai Turner to the Chargers for Russell Okung 

 

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Pretty bad deal, not impressed.

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12 hours ago, whole-show said:

Panthers agree to trade Trai Turner to the Chargers for Russell Okung 

 

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I dont get it

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pantherclub said:
14 hours ago, whole-show said:

Panthers agree to trade Trai Turner to the Chargers for Russell Okung 

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I dont get it

The top of the draft is loaded at OT.

Simmons probably won't drop.

The top  QBs 'may not' drop.

Seems 'likely' the EDIT: Chargers will go OT with their top pick.  Lots of rumors Tom Brady to LA but I felt that was nonsense but now?

Not sure what the Panthers are doing here unless they 'think' Simmons will fall or are going with a D-Lineman/Brown?

Just saw a dead cap hit of $9 million for the Panthers so it wasn't a cap move.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Not sure what the Panthers are doing here unless they 'think' Simmons will fall

Hmmnn.  

I looked over many mocks to see how this might game-out and it looks possible/'probable' that Simmons 'may' fall.

1. Cincinnati Bengals: Joe Burrow, QB, LSU 

Forgone conclusion that Joe goes  first.

2. Washington RedskinsChase Young, DE, Ohio State

See above.

3. Detroit LionsJeff Okudah, CB, Ohio State

I don't see anyone trading up for Tua due to injury concerns.  In any event if they trade-down with Miami/LAC Okudah would be available.

4. New York GiantsMekhi Becton, OT, Louisville

Either Wirfs or Mekhi.

5. Miami DolphinsTua Tagovailoa, QB, Alabama

If he's available it seems a slam dunk.

6. Los Angeles Chargers: Tristan Wirfs, OT, Iowa/Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon

Doesn't matter which one they take because in this scenario Simmons would fall.

7. Carolina PanthersIsaiah Simmons, LB, Clemson/Derrick Brown, DT, Auburn

It 'seems reasonable' that Simmons would fall in this scenario.

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Simmons isnt falling after that combine.  I think the lions get him and he changes their defense over night. 

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43 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

Simmons isnt falling after that combine.  I think the lions get him and he changes their defense over night. 

Derwin James fell to pick #17 because teams didn't know how to use him.  Corners shut down #1 WRs.  They hold higher value over guys who can cover TEs  and slot WRs even factoring in the Swiss Army Knife dream scenario of Simmons lining up everywhere.  The lions greatest need is DT and many have them trading down where they get Brown.

Doesn't matter if the Lions move down, Okuda is not falling.

NFL GMs take blue chip prospects off the board in a certain order.  QB, pass rusher, blind side protector, shut-down CB, the rest.  

The buzz is the league is warping into 4-2-5 or even 5-1-5 schemes with safety/linebacker hybrids who can cover tons of ground, see Arizona where Todd Bowles concocted a defense using multiple safeties with the Honeybadger in a hybrid role but he wound up covering TEs/slot WRs.  No one would argue Patrick Peterson in his prime was  less valuable than the Honeybadger.  

I love Simmons and feel he would be a perfect fit in Carolina and  think he 'could' fall based on the current draft order and team needs.

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Okung is a better player than Turner, at a more important position. This is a win for the Panthers, and seemingly a salary dump for the Chargers. 

As for how it effects the #6 and #7 picks. I'm not sure it really does. Both teams could still go OT in round 1. Okung is a nice upgrade for Carolina, but not a long term fix by any means.

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46 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Okung is a better player than Turner, at a more important position. This is a win for the Panthers, and seemingly a salary dump for the Chargers. 

As for how it effects the #6 and #7 picks. I'm not sure it really does. Both teams could still go OT in round 1. Okung is a nice upgrade for Carolina, but not a long term fix by any means.

I dont see how he fits at all.  Unless its just to free up cap space but whats the point of playing him one year?   I just dont see what the plan is now.  Just tank.  Just do it.  Dont go out tand try to win 6 games or whatever.  Play Cam and then what?

 

It wouldnt surprise me if they cut both Okung and Cam before the season. 

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2 hours ago, travdogg said:

Okung is a better player than Turner, at a more important position. This is a win for the Panthers, and seemingly a salary dump for the Chargers. 

As for how it effects the #6 and #7 picks. I'm not sure it really does. Both teams could still go OT in round 1. Okung is a nice upgrade for Carolina, but not a long term fix by any means.

He's older, he's been an injury issue and he has been to 2 pro bowls to Turners 5. Not sure he is all that.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

He's older, he's been an injury issue and he has been to 2 pro bowls to Turners 5. Not sure he is all that.

Turner has been to 5 pro bowls, because pro bowl voters are idiots, especially when it comes to non-skill positions. Hell, Xavier Rhodes made the pro bowl this year, and was the worst starter on the Vikings roster. Turner's been a below average G much of his career. He was awesome in 2015(as were most Panthers) and has been a very replacement level player ever since. 

Okung has been a solid LT for almost his entire career, and only injury has stopped that. He is older, and has more injury woes than Turner, but he's a solid starter when healthy right now. Turner is mediocre at best. Add in that T is much more important than G, and this is a layup. 

Its not like either guy is a top-20 player at his position, but one is certainly better, and plays a more valuable spot. I don't get why any Panther fan would dislike this deal, they gave up nothing of value, potentially got something of value, and worst case, moved sideways overall on the o-line. 

Its also possible that Little moves to G and is just as good or better than Turner there, improving 2 positions. 

Edited by travdogg

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17 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Turner has been to 5 pro bowls, because pro bowl voters are idiots, especially when it comes to non-skill positions. Hell, Xavier Rhodes made the pro bowl this year, and was the worst starter on the Vikings roster. Turner's been a below average G much of his career. He was awesome in 2015(as were most Panthers) and has been a very replacement level player ever since. 

Okung has been a solid LT for almost his entire career, and only injury has stopped that. He is older, and has more injury woes than Turner, but he's a solid starter when healthy right now. Turner is mediocre at best. Add in that T is much more important than G, and this is a layup. 

Its not like either guy is a top-20 player at his position, but one is certainly better, and plays a more valuable spot. I don't get why any Panther fan would dislike this deal, they gave up nothing of value, potentially got something of value, and worst case, moved sideways overall on the o-line. 

Its also possible that Little moves to G and is just as good or better than Turner there, improving 2 positions. 

Little is to soft to play guard in my opinion 

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

Turner has been to 5 pro bowls, because pro bowl voters are idiots, especially when it comes to non-skill positions. Hell, Xavier Rhodes made the pro bowl this year, and was the worst starter on the Vikings roster. Turner's been a below average G much of his career. He was awesome in 2015(as were most Panthers) and has been a very replacement level player ever since. 

Okung has been a solid LT for almost his entire career, and only injury has stopped that. He is older, and has more injury woes than Turner, but he's a solid starter when healthy right now. Turner is mediocre at best. Add in that T is much more important than G, and this is a layup. 

Its not like either guy is a top-20 player at his position, but one is certainly better, and plays a more valuable spot. I don't get why any Panther fan would dislike this deal, they gave up nothing of value, potentially got something of value, and worst case, moved sideways overall on the o-line. 

Its also possible that Little moves to G and is just as good or better than Turner there, improving 2 positions. 

He has played one complete season out of the last 6. He isnt good enough or young enough for a straight up trade. Had we gotten a pick I'd be less down on the trade but it would still be a poor trade 

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4 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

He has played one complete season out of the last 6. He isnt good enough or young enough for a straight up trade. Had we gotten a pick I'd be less down on the trade but it would still be a poor trade 

That is some pretty big cherry picking. Is playing all 16 games really that important? Okung played 13 or more games, in 5 of those 6 seasons, the exception was last year. In fact, other than 2019, Okung has actually missed fewer games than Turner over that stretch.

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On 3/5/2020 at 10:39 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

Derwin James fell to pick #17 because teams didn't know how to use him.  Corners shut down #1 WRs.  They hold higher value over guys who can cover TEs  and slot WRs even factoring in the Swiss Army Knife dream scenario of Simmons lining up everywhere.  The lions greatest need is DT and many have them trading down where they get Brown.

Doesn't matter if the Lions move down, Okuda is not falling.

NFL GMs take blue chip prospects off the board in a certain order.  QB, pass rusher, blind side protector, shut-down CB, the rest.  

The buzz is the league is warping into 4-2-5 or even 5-1-5 schemes with safety/linebacker hybrids who can cover tons of ground, see Arizona where Todd Bowles concocted a defense using multiple safeties with the Honeybadger in a hybrid role but he wound up covering TEs/slot WRs.  No one would argue Patrick Peterson in his prime was  less valuable than the Honeybadger.  

I love Simmons and feel he would be a perfect fit in Carolina and  think he 'could' fall based on the current draft order and team needs.

I think teams took a lesson in how Derwin James fell.  The game has changed and a player like that can change a team's defensive makeup.  Top CBs will always be at a premium, no doubt about that.  I think Okuda will come off first and probably to the Lions.  Although the Redskins just lost Norman to the Bills.

But with the emergence of QBs like Jackson and Watson (and Mahomes) who can make plays with both arms and legs, defenses are well served to have athletic LB/S who can spy the QB in certain situations.  Also teams are having trouble covering the wave of athletic TEs like Kelce, Kittle, Ertz, Ingram, etc.  

Simmons is tailor made for both of the above.  I've seen every snap of his career at Clemson and he is truly all over the field.  He covers down field, sideline to sideline, and can get after the QB.  One of his best attributes is the ability to cover the middle zone while spying the QB.  Once the QB steps up in the pocket to run, he's right there to make the play.  

I'm afraid his combine numbers brought other teams to the mix, but I truly hope he falls to us at #7.  I think it's reasonable if the teams that are looking for the top QBs still go that route.   

My worst fear is they draft a QB in the first.  If not Simmons, then they should go OT/DT.  With the trade for Okung, it will likely be someone like D. Brown.  I'm ok with that but would really love to have Simmons.  

 

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On 3/5/2020 at 12:42 PM, pantherclub said:

I dont see how he fits at all.  Unless its just to free up cap space but whats the point of playing him one year?   I just dont see what the plan is now.  Just tank.  Just do it.  Dont go out tand try to win 6 games or whatever.  Play Cam and then what?

 

It wouldnt surprise me if they cut both Okung and Cam before the season. 

This trade was a head scratcher for me.  If not for cap relief then why?  Guess they figure they can go defense with #7 and draft a Guard in later rounds.  So they'll have their new OT and can go defense... or QB (hope not).  

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4 hours ago, Jayrok said:

This trade was a head scratcher for me.  If not for cap relief then why?  Guess they figure they can go defense with #7 and draft a Guard in later rounds.  So they'll have their new OT and can go defense... or QB (hope not).  

What are your thoughts on Cam playing for the Panthers this season?  I still think they move him.

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33 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

What are your thoughts on Cam playing for the Panthers this season?  I still think they move him.

I think he stays and plays if he's healthy but I wouldn't be surprised if they move him when/if determined healthy.  Depends i'm sure on what they find the market to be for Cam.   It seems everyone will watch and see where Brady falls to begin the domino effect.  I think Brady will stay in NE.   

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5 hours ago, Jayrok said:

I think teams took a lesson in how Derwin James fell.  The game has changed and a player like that can change a team's defensive makeup.  Top CBs will always be at a premium, no doubt about that.  I think Okuda will come off first and probably to the Lions.  Although the Redskins just lost Norman to the Bills.

But with the emergence of QBs like Jackson and Watson (and Mahomes) who can make plays with both arms and legs, defenses are well served to have athletic LB/S who can spy the QB in certain situations.  Also teams are having trouble covering the wave of athletic TEs like Kelce, Kittle, Ertz, Ingram, etc.  

Simmons is tailor made for both of the above.  I've seen every snap of his career at Clemson and he is truly all over the field.  He covers down field, sideline to sideline, and can get after the QB.  One of his best attributes is the ability to cover the middle zone while spying the QB.  Once the QB steps up in the pocket to run, he's right there to make the play.  

I'm afraid his combine numbers brought other teams to the mix, but I truly hope he falls to us at #7.  I think it's reasonable if the teams that are looking for the top QBs still go that route.   

My worst fear is they draft a QB in the first.  If not Simmons, then they should go OT/DT.  With the trade for Okung, it will likely be someone like D. Brown.  I'm ok with that but would really love to have Simmons.  

 

Didnt really have a dog in this but at this point Jayrok definitely has me on Team Simmons. I think he really makes the case here especially in reference to defenses evolving response to these extremely athletic QBs and TEs. Well written.

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27 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

I think he stays and plays if he's healthy but I wouldn't be surprised if they move him when/if determined healthy.  Depends i'm sure on what they find the market to be for Cam.   It seems everyone will watch and see where Brady falls to begin the domino effect.  I think Brady will stay in NE.   

I think they let him prove it this year. Shows us you can stay healthy and get back in this offense like before the Pittsburgh game. I mean dude is actually cheap this year and let's be honest the bench needs to make huge strides before I would base my season on them. So unless they get some crazy offer I expect he plays here this season in the knowledge he gets a payday if he shows it.

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19 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

I think they let him prove it this year. Shows us you can stay healthy and get back in this offense like before the Pittsburgh game. I mean dude is actually cheap this year and let's be honest the bench needs to make huge strides before I would base my season on them. So unless they get some crazy offer I expect he plays here this season in the knowledge he gets a payday if he shows it.

I get that but I am not sure what a prove year even means.   As it stands today this is a 6-8 at best team.  And its going to be filled up with cheap free agents, rookies and undrafted rookies.  It aint getting that much better in 6 months.  I still think the oline is in shambles and that is with Okung.  Who knows what we are going to get with him.   I just cannot imagine a scenario where cam gets extended after 2020 which makes me think they are going to move him for whatever.  I am also still in the mindset I dont think he is healthy and his shoulder will ever be the same.  So why waste a year in the "process" or whatever rhule/tepper are calling it just to trot cam out there?

 

If healthy, I honest to God dont see why the Bears or Titans wouldnt be tripping over themselves offering a 2nd or 2 3rds (something like that) for Cam?  the Bears with a healthy cam would be interesting to watch.

 

It stinks, I love cam for what he does on and off the field but the writing is on the wall. 

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Addison to the Bills

Bradberry to the Giants

Picked up Weatherly from Minn and Justin Burris from Cleveland

 

Thought they'd sign Addison to stay.  Not surprised to see Bradberry go.  Expect to see Poe and McCoy sign elsewhere.

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Bridgewater to the Panthers.  They're really pushing to trade Cam now.  

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At least they won't be in the market for one of the QBs in this draft, so that's good. 

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6 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

Bridgewater to the Panthers.  They're really pushing to trade Cam now.  

They are going to have to cut him. No one is going to give a draft pick. And honestly, they SHOULD cut him and let Cam find a team, he has done a lot for the franchise. So far, I've been very disappointed with this new regime. And all the former great players (Steve Smith, Olsen, and now Cam) are voicing their frustrations with them too. Not a good look for this franchise at all. 

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5 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

They are going to have to cut him. No one is going to give a draft pick. And honestly, they SHOULD cut him and let Cam find a team, he has done a lot for the franchise. So far, I've been very disappointed with this new regime. And all the former great players (Steve Smith, Olsen, and now Cam) are voicing their frustrations with them too. Not a good look for this franchise at all. 

They might be able to trade him but would probably have to eat much or all of the salary that no one else would take on... course the Texans are giving away players so who knows.  

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I'd rather have Teddy for a 1 year deal.  Looks like he's getting a 3 year, $60m contract.  No more tank for Trevor (or Fields) I guess.  

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They're fumbling this Cam situation big time.  Probably going to end up cutting him (may be able to get a mid round pick from Chicago).  What a waste and shame for how this is turning out for a guy who's done so much for this team and the city of Charlotte.  

I wish Cam the best and hope he does well wherever he ends up.  

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18 hours ago, Jayrok said:

I'd rather have Teddy for a 1 year deal.  Looks like he's getting a 3 year, $60m contract.  No more tank for Trevor (or Fields) I guess.  

Well it seems they are listening to our new OC who worked with Teddy in NO. There will be one benefit in that Bridgewater knows the new system because he was in it for 2 years and produced in it. So the cancelled workouts will be less of a negative for him.

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3 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

They're fumbling this Cam situation big time.  Probably going to end up cutting him (may be able to get a mid round pick from Chicago).  What a waste and shame for how this is turning out for a guy who's done so much for this team and the city of Charlotte.  

I wish Cam the best and hope he does well wherever he ends up.  

I agree this has been horribly handled and seems like Steve Smith all over again. I get this is a business but this isnt even good business. They have really flubbed this I mean no one is doing a trade now that would be stupid. We didnt pay TB 20 mil a year to be the backup.

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1 minute ago, NCCommish said:

I agree this has been horribly handled and seems like Steve Smith all over again. I get this is a business but this isnt even good business. They have really flubbed this I mean no one is doing a trade now that would be stupid. We didnt pay TB 20 mil a year to be the backup.

Yep.  Wish they would have held off on the TB signing.  Just seems they were rushing in fear of losing him but they've handcuffed themselves with Cam now.  Will be hard to trade.  And didn't they lose a 3rd round compensation pick by signing TB?  Seem to remember reading that somewhere but can't remember where. 

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2 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

I agree this has been horribly handled and seems like Steve Smith all over again. I get this is a business but this isnt even good business. They have really flubbed this I mean no one is doing a trade now that would be stupid. We didnt pay TB 20 mil a year to be the backup.

Supposedly he knows the system really well and is a good communicator and teacher.  Which leads to the theory that we are picking a qb this year or next.  If they do it this year I hope they trade back and get love.  Take some time and work out the kinks let him learn the offense.

 

However if they dont figure out the oline then it really doesnt matter.  I may lose my mind if they dont draft one of the stud tackles at 7.  Let them acclimate at RT for a year then move them over to left in 2021.  

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McCoy, Butler and Reid gone.  No surprises there.  

 

At least we signed Seth Roberts.  :mellow:

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2 hours ago, Jayrok said:

McCoy, Butler and Reid gone.  No surprises there.  

 

At least we signed Seth Roberts.  :mellow:

feels like we are tanking

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