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GroveDiesel

***Official Buffalo Bills Thread 2019 Version***

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8 minutes ago, The Duff Man said:

The Bills put themselves in a situation where bad officiating could send them home, and it did. 

No shortage of blame, but I don’t blame Allen.  

Really wanted to see what they could do against the elite in AFC, but if they played like today it would just be a bad loss.  

Hoping Gore retires as it seems the coaches are too dumb not to use him. 

 

Allen deserves some blame. That fumble lead to a FG and was inexcusable. And those two sacks he took in the 4th were mind numbingly bad plays. 

He made some incredible plays as well and his receivers let him down several times as they have all year, but he does share some of the blame. Overall his good outweighed his bad by quite a bit though IMO.

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You guys will probably be the favorite in the division going into next year. Gotta get Allen a little composure though. Love Singletary, Brown, and that D.

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In case you are a Bills fans and wanted to be even more irritated, watch Duke Johnson’s block at the very end against Edmunds in this 2 point try and reconcile that with the blindside block call on Cody Ford:

Link

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23 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I'm choosing to not think about this, but my son and I had this exact conversation.  I am fine with "go by the letter of the rule" and also "go by the spirit of the rule," but the mix-and-match approach is not good.

Also, on the end zone fumble, teams occasionally come up with weird rule-bending plays in the return game.  If the Bills let up and the returner picks up the ball and runs it back for a score, the narrative is how brilliant the ST coach is and how stupid the Bills are.  So why not enforce the rule as written?

Player clearly gave himself up... 

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4 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

In case you are a Bills fans and wanted to be even more irritated, watch Duke Johnson’s block at the very end against Edmunds in this 2 point try and reconcile that with the blindside block call on Cody Ford:

Link

The officiating was one sided.  By rule, that play in the endzone after halftime should have been a TD or safety.  Granted, it's a little insane, but that's how the rule is written.  And you don't get to re-write the rule on the fly because you don't like the result.  You especially don't get to call a by-the-letter-of-the-law penalty on Ford for harmless contact away from the play after a reversal like that.

But the Bills have only themselves to blame for this one.  We had the game won, we blew the opportunity to put it way for good, we pissed away the lead, and we blew chances in OT.

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1 minute ago, DropKick said:

Player clearly gave himself up... 

According to the rules, these are the ONLY ways a player can give himself up. Let me know which one he did:

“when a runner declares himself down by: 

falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance. 

sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. “

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3 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Player clearly gave himself up... 

This is simply wrong.  I know his intent was to give himself up, but by rule he did not.

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1 minute ago, GroveDiesel said:

According to the rules, these are the ONLY ways a player can give himself up. Let me know which one he did:

“when a runner declares himself down by: 

falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance. 

sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. “

Key word here.

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Posted (edited)

I get it.  This is a dumb rule written in a very poor way.  If somebody wants to say "Eh, he meant to give himself up, so let's just give it to him" okay fine.  But then #### off with that blindside block ####.  Because that wasn't the intent of the rule either. 

Edited by IvanKaramazov

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The officiating was one sided.  By rule, that play in the endzone after halftime should have been a TD or safety.  Granted, it's a little insane, but that's how the rule is written.  And you don't get to re-write the rule on the fly because you don't like the result.  You especially don't get to call a by-the-letter-of-the-law penalty on Ford for harmless contact away from the play after a reversal like that.

But the Bills have only themselves to blame for this one.  We had the game won, we blew the opportunity to put it way for good, we pissed away the lead, and we blew chances in OT.

The Bills? Yes. But I sure as heck am going to feel free to blame the players for not executing, the coaches for getting outcoached by Bill O’Brien, and yes, the refs as well. Plenty of blame to go around.

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Just now, GroveDiesel said:

The Bills? Yes. But I sure as heck am going to feel free to blame the players for not executing, the coaches for getting outcoached by Bill O’Brien, and yes, the refs as well. Plenty of blame to go around.

Basically everybody except for Singletary and Hauschka had some responsibility for this loss.  And even those two guys deserve some criticism for not hiding Frank Gore's helmet or something to keep him off the field.

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I get it.  This is a dumb rule written in a very poor way.  If somebody wants to say "Eh, he meant to give himself up, so let's just give it to him" okay fine.  But then #### off with that blindside block ####.  Because that wasn't the intent of the rule either. 

Watching that game and about as neutral as you can be... it would have been a travesty to award a TD on that play.  I have seen plays where they've ruled that a player gave himself up without literally taking a knee.   Drop the ball intentionally, hand it to an official - his actions were consistent with giving yourself up.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Watching that game and about as neutral as you can be... it would have been a travesty to award a TD on that play.  I have seen plays where they've ruled that a player gave himself up without literally taking a knee.   Drop the ball intentionally, hand it to an official - his actions were consistent with giving yourself up.

 

 

I agree, but that's not how the rule is written.  Blame the NFL.

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I agree, but that's not how the rule is written.  Blame the NFL.

What I'd be curious to see... and maybe nobody pays attention... is how often return men do that.  With recent rule changes, you don't even have to field the ball in the end zone.  I think they most often simply let it land.

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Just now, DropKick said:

What I'd be curious to see... and maybe nobody pays attention... is how often return men do that.  With recent rule changes, you don't even have to field the ball in the end zone.  I think they most often simply let it land.

By rule, you can let the ball land in the end zone and it's dead.  It becomes live when the receiving team touches it.

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11 hours ago, DropKick said:

Watching that game and about as neutral as you can be... it would have been a travesty to award a TD on that play.  I have seen plays where they've ruled that a player gave himself up without literally taking a knee.   Drop the ball intentionally, hand it to an official - his actions were consistent with giving yourself up.

I agree 100%.   The player made no effort to advance the ball and was tossing it back to the referee.  The officials did the right thing.  

 Bills fans have a more legitimate gripe about a couple other calls IMO.

 

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Posted (edited)

My main issue was the Cody Ford block that was flagged. Terrible call. 
 

Looking forward though, are we losing any players except Alexander and Gore?

Lawson is gonna want a lot.  Philips is gonna want too much.  
Spain should be a re sign guy.  I thought he played well.  

Edited by Mr. Peterson

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Just wanted to pop over and congratulate you Bills fans on the course of the team. Was a hard fought playoff game you guys played well enough to win.  Haven't been able to go watch the broadcast yet and digest, but felt like your defense was really strong and the play calling especially.  Did a lot that is how I think teams should attack Houston's offense.

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On 1/4/2020 at 11:16 PM, The General said:

You guys will probably be the favorite in the division going into next year. Gotta get Allen a little composure though. Love Singletary, Brown, and that D.

What was weird is that I thought Allen looked cool as a cucumber until the 4th quarter and that complete freakout lateral play with 1:20 left. He'll learn. I don't get the Allen hate. As a Bears fan I'd trade Mitch for him in a second.

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4 hours ago, GregR said:

Just wanted to pop over and congratulate you Bills fans on the course of the team. Was a hard fought playoff game you guys played well enough to win.  Haven't been able to go watch the broadcast yet and digest, but felt like your defense was really strong and the play calling especially.  Did a lot that is how I think teams should attack Houston's offense.

Thanks Greg. Losing was a bitter pill to swallow, but at least it was to a likable team with a likable fan base. 

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Good season. Sure, they could have won that game, but that's as far as they realistically would've gotten anyway. Use the loss as motivation.

Offseason goal #1 (and 2, 3, ...) is to get Allen better. My concern is that everyone is so green- they could be building something great if it clicks, but there's no "rock" there who can settle everyone down when the bullets are flying.

If I'm Buffalo, I do whatever it takes to get Allen working with the people who helped Lamar last offseason- they made huge improvements on some of the same issues Allen has. Plan B would be to do whatever it takes to bring in a guy like McCown. If he still wants to play, cool, he's a decent back-up, or if he just wants to coach/train, even better because it doesn't count against the cap.

Obviously there are other issues to fix, namely getting a legit WR and O-line help, but none of that will really matter if Allen doesn't develop. Next year isn't quite make or break for him, but it's pretty huge.

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22 hours ago, GregR said:

Just wanted to pop over and congratulate you Bills fans on the course of the team. Was a hard fought playoff game you guys played well enough to win.  Haven't been able to go watch the broadcast yet and digest, but felt like your defense was really strong and the play calling especially.  Did a lot that is how I think teams should attack Houston's offense.

Thanks for this.  As Bills fans, we all are going to naturally spend a lot of time picking over reasons why we lost this game.  What will tend to get overlooked is the super-human performance that Watson put on in the second half to win the game.  Good luck in the next round -- you guys have a fun team to watch.  

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Cody Ford fined $28K and change for the "blind side block" last week, in which he bumped into another player number-to-number.  It's like the NFL is deliberately trying to be stupid.

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2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Cody Ford fined $28K and change for the "blind side block" last week, in which he bumped into another player number-to-number.  It's like the NFL is deliberately trying to be stupid.

He got fined more than he actually got paid for that game. That’s insanity. Doubling down on a dubious call like that is craziness. Especially when the Clowney hit not only wasn’t penalized, but wasn’t fined. The NFL clearly cares more about sticking to a narrative and backing their refs than they do actual player safety.

Oh, and the NFL also didn’t flag or fine either one of the plays depicted in this tweet.

I get that by the letter of the rule you can get a penalty out of what Ford did. It’s stupid because the rule is obviously worded in a stupid way, but I see it. But after the Texans weren’t called for a much worse example on the 2 point conversion, the 2nd half kickoff play was changed due to “common sense” despite the letter of the rules, and the clear helmet to helmet against Allen wasn’t called, this fine is just straight up antagonism and outrageous.

That that is not only considered a foul, but something worthy of a $28,000+ fine is simply insanity by the NFL. They should be ashamed of themselves.

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2 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

They should be ashamed of themselves.

:goodposting:

 

I really hope the XFL succeeds, because I'm getting really sick of what the NFL is becoming.

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I am sure this ain’t happening, but if Houston handles KC I will be left thinking that Buffalo could have hosted the AFC championship game. 

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4 hours ago, The Duff Man said:

I am sure this ain’t happening, but if Houston handles KC I will be left thinking that Buffalo could have hosted the AFC championship game. 

So do you feel better or worse after seeing that game play out the way it did?

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6 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

So do you feel better or worse after seeing that game play out the way it did?

Better

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On 1/4/2020 at 10:59 PM, GroveDiesel said:

Allen deserves some blame. That fumble lead to a FG and was inexcusable. And those two sacks he took in the 4th were mind numbingly bad plays. 

He made some incredible plays as well and his receivers let him down several times as they have all year, but he does share some of the blame. Overall his good outweighed his bad by quite a bit though IMO.

:goodposting:

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Ugh.  I don’t like this deal at all.  I was just saying I would only take Diggs for a 2nd or less.  And we gave up so much to get him. 
On top of overpaying, he seems like a drama queen who has a me first mentality.  
And on top of all that I could see him demanding a new contract.  
I do not like this trade.  

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Mr. Peterson said:

Ugh.  I don’t like this deal at all.  I was just saying I would only take Diggs for a 2nd or less.  And we gave up so much to get him. 
On top of overpaying, he seems like a drama queen who has a me first mentality.  
And on top of all that I could see him demanding a new contract.  
I do not like this trade.  

Is it really overpaying though? Maybe in the lens of the Hopkins trade it looks that way, but Diggs is an elite WR. Probably the best route runner in the NFL with legit deep speed and ability to go get balls.

My first reaction is overpay as well, but they had an extra 5th and 7th round pick this year from trading Wyatt Teller and Russell Bodine. You’re telling me you wouldn’t give up a 1st, future 4th, Wyatt Teller and Russell Bodine for Diggs and a 7th? What percentage of Day 3 picks actually become worthwhile contributors? Maybe 20% tops?

And Diggs is signed for 4 more years at like $11M a year. Did you see how much Cooper just signed for? And rumor is Hopkins is getting a new deal as well. $11M/year for the next 4 years is a freaking bargain. That in itself is value.

Yeah, this receiver draft class is supposedly deep, but that’s rolling the dice on a Jefferson or Higgins to become what Diggs already is.

IMO, ultimately I think the trade is just about right. The Bills get a receiver that suddenly turns their receiving corp into one of the best in the league at a bargain contract, but give up a first and a number of Day 3 draft picks.

Edited by GroveDiesel

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5 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

Report...Bills sign Mario Addison

The Bills continue their quest to sign every single former Panther in the league. 9.5 sacks a year over the last 4 years isn’t too shabby, but dude is also turning 33 in September. A 3 year deal to a soon to be 33 year old DE hopefully is really team friendly.

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8 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Is it really overpaying though? Maybe in the lens of the Hopkins trade it looks that way, but Diggs is an elite WR. Probably the best route runner in the NFL with legit deep speed and ability to go get balls.

My first reaction is overpay as well, but they had an extra 5th and 7th round pick this year from trading Wyatt Teller and Russell Bodine. You’re telling me you wouldn’t give up a 1st, future 4th, Wyatt Teller and Russell Bodine for Diggs and a 6th? What percentage of Day 3 picks actually become worthwhile contributors? Maybe 20% tops?

And Diggs is signed for 4 more years at like $11M a year. Did you see how much Cooper just signed for? And rumor is Hopkins is getting a new deal as well. $11M/year for the next 4 years is a freaking bargain. That in itself is value.

Yeah, this receiver draft class is supposedly deep, but that’s rolling the dice on a Jefferson or Higgins to become what Diggs already is.

IMO, ultimately I think the trade is just about right. The Bills get a receiver that suddenly turns their receiving corp into one of the best in the league at a bargain contract, but give up a first and a number of Day 3 draft picks.

You don’t think Diggs is gonna ask for (or demand) a new contract?  Wasn’t he already doing that in Minnesota? 
And I agree that he’s a good route runner, but he’s not the best.  I also don’t think Allen’s style of play isn’t greatly benefited by a good route runner necessarily.  

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Mr. Peterson said:

You don’t think Diggs is gonna ask for (or demand) a new contract?  Wasn’t he already doing that in Minnesota?
And I agree that he’s a good route runner, but he’s not the best.  I also don’t think Allen’s style of play isn’t greatly benefited by a good route runner necessarily.  

He was in the first year of his new deal last year, so no, I don’t think he was already doing that last year. I think it was more about his role in the offense. I think McDermott has earned my confidence that he can make most players happy to be in Buffalo.

Here’s a pretty good argument that he IS, in fact, the best route runner in the NFL. Check out his next tweet where he links to the methodology and Diggs’s win rates on the route tree.

And I agree that route running isn’t necessarily the most important ability for Allen, but Diggs’s ability to get open certainly is. That along with his deep speed and good job coming down with contested balls all are pluses.

Diggs has the highest contested catch rate over the last 3 years in the NFL.

Edited by GroveDiesel

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Posted (edited)

I'm kind of surprised at the mixed reaction to the Diggs trade.  A late first and grab-bag of day three picks that wouldn't make our team anyway for a real #1 WR?  Yes, please.

Edit: It should go without saying that I would have preferred to have fleeced Houston, but we missed out on that one.

Edited by IvanKaramazov
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My initial thought on the deal was that the Bills gave up too much.  But after digging into it a bit further, I'm a little more comfortable with the deal.

Diggs is apparently one of the best WRs in the NFL against man coverage, and one of the best WRs in the NFL in catching contested throws in coverage.  Maybe his numbers don't jump right off the page at you, but I guess the "analytics" are pretty strong for him.

I don't know much about his off-the-field persona, but seems like he has a reputation for being a bit of a drama queen.  That's a concern in a Bills offense that still has yet to demonstrate that they can actually execute a consistent passing game.  Brown and Beasley were great acquisitions in that they both went about their business without causing a ruckus if they're not getting the ball.  Brown and Beasley combined for a little over 1,800 yards receiving.  I assume Allen's passing numbers will go up, but it's not like there's another 1,000 yards to go around here.  Either someone's gonna get left out, or all 3 of them will likely see decreases in production.  There's nothing wrong with that if the players are happy with their roles and the team is winning, but I could see some frustration if the Bills start slow.

Realistically, the value of what the Bills gave up, according to those draft picks calculators, is approximately a #18 overall pick.  The Bills identified WR as a need, and likely see the writing on the wall that some of their top prospects won't be there at #22.  So they essentially gave up a #18 overall with a proven, guaranteed return of Stefon Diggs.  You're not getting a potential best WR in the NFL, but you're getting a very solid return, assuming he plays to the same level he's played during his time in Minnesota.  It's a move that signals to me that the Bills are expecting to be very competitive in the immediate next few years, rather than crossing their fingers and hoping to hit on an absolute star WR in the draft.  In all, I look at it as a pretty fair deal for both teams.

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Well, so far I pretty much like the moves the Bills have made involving non-former Panthers and don’t really love the moves they’ve made for former Panthers (although the Norman deal isn’t terrible IMO).

Really wish this team would stop taking in every stray cat that shows up at their door. Every one so far has been overpaid and under delivered. 

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Apparently there’s mutual interest to bringing in Melvin Gordon.  I think he would make a nice 1b.  But Singletary looked too good to take a back seat to anyone. 

I would also hope it would only be a 1 or 2 year deal and around 5-7 million per.  

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2 hours ago, Mr. Peterson said:

Apparently there’s mutual interest to bringing in Melvin Gordon.  I think he would make a nice 1b.  But Singletary looked too good to take a back seat to anyone. 

I would also hope it would only be a 1 or 2 year deal and around 5-7 million per.  

I’d be good with either Gordon or Gurley as a #2, especially if they could get one of them at that $5-7M.

If that happens, it legit puts them in a position where if Allen doesn’t take a big step forward, then I think you know it’s time to move on after this year.

And if the Bills move on, I sincerely hope that McDermott and Beane would be kept on. It’s pretty common for GMs/HCs to get one big shot at a QB and then get axed if they miss. IMO, they’ve done a good enough job building and coaching up that they deserve to stick around even if Allen doesn’t work out.

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Welp, the Pegulas laying off all their arena employees and not even holding their jobs for them when this is all over is leaving a REALLY bad taste in my mouth. 

After all the crappy years, crappy teams, crappy coaches, crappy GMs, crappy front offices...finally the team looks respectable. Except now the owner seems to be despicable. This may be what finally turns me off of the NFL. 

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1 minute ago, GroveDiesel said:

Welp, the Pegulas laying off all their arena employees and not even holding their jobs for them when this is all over is leaving a REALLY bad taste in my mouth. 

After all the crappy years, crappy teams, crappy coaches, crappy GMs, crappy front offices...finally the team looks respectable. Except now the owner seems to be despicable. This may be what finally turns me off of the NFL. 

What? They are? On the surface that seems insane. Are there numbers on what it would cost them to pay said employees for the next 3 months?

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1 hour ago, Grigs Allmoon said:

What? They are? On the surface that seems insane. Are there numbers on what it would cost them to pay said employees for the next 3 months?

Link if you subscribe to The Athletic.

My original post isn’t really correct though. They laid off hospitality workers for their other properties. The arena workers they’re just not paying until games are officially canceled.

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Diggs trade was fine imo.  A late 1st is far from a sure bet, and while there are a lot of talented WRs in the draft, no one is likely to give comparable production to Stefon Diggs in year one or beyond.

I feel like they had plenty of money to make a run at Clowney instead of Mario Addison.  I didn't really get that move.

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Since the Bills don’t have a pick tonight, I went to YouTube to watch some Stefon Diggs highlights and my goodness did he make a ton of tough catches last year. Like a ton.

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For the Bills tomorrow night, I think they need to come away with 2 of DB/WR/RB/Edge rusher. 

I just really hope that Beane doesn’t get antsy and start trading valuable assets away to move up. I think this draft is deep enough that he can afford to wait and get some value. A CB or “Big Nickel” in the 2nd or maybe an edge rusher or WR there would be great. And then maybe a WR or RB in the 3rd.

Pittman or Claypool would both be nice picks IMO. This Dugger guy could be a great hybrid fit at Big Nickel who could work in as Alexander’s replacement in some ways. There’s a number of downhill runners that would be nice fits, though I think they’d probably be thinking more 3rd or 4th round for that, but man, passing up Dobbins at 54 if he were there would be tough in my mind, even though I know they love Singletary.

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21 minutes ago, Grigs Allmoon said:

Yay. Another DL.

DE was a sneaky need for them. Their DEs are old as crap. I’m fine with it. Can still grab solid WRs or RBs in the 3rd and 4th rounds this year.

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I really like the Jets' draft. I would have been thrilled with those two players for Buffalo.

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