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GroveDiesel

***Official Buffalo Bills Thread 2019 Version***

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Thanks for trying to talk me off the ledge guys. I just feel like we had the same conversation when we drafted Maybin.

This team will probably be bad again in 2013. Then we'll have another high pick. What if there is a franchise QB available there? Do we take him, or will the team feel too invested in EJ to draft another 1st round QB? This is the kind of pick that, if a miss, can haunt the team for years.

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I would be ok If the Bills came away with either Minter, Brown or Jaime Collins. Hunter would be nice but I've got a suspicion that he'll be gone. I would be ok with Ertz as well if we couldn't get the wr that we wanted.

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 09:35, said:If you really believe in EJ, take him in the 2nd. If you get sniped, take someone else OR take a QB next year. It's not that hard to figure out.

if you really believe in him, why risk letting someone else get him?I'm guessing there was nobody at 16 that teams were interested in trading up for. no point in dropping down if nobody is willing to give up anything of value. they already made a smart move in dropping down from 8, imo.let's see what they do in round 2. some really good players available.
I'm probably the sucker that has hope no matter how many times the Bills have screwed up.But Norwood is definitely the guy that not only sees the glass as half empty, but smashed on the floor. Not sure I've ever seem him post something positive about the Bills.

If you're able to be optimistic about a team that hasn't had a winning season since 2004, then I envy you.

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Thanks for trying to talk me off the ledge guys. I just feel like we had the same conversation when we drafted Maybin.

This team will probably be bad again in 2013. Then we'll have another high pick. What if there is a franchise QB available there? Do we take him, or will the team feel too invested in EJ to draft another 1st round QB? This is the kind of pick that, if a miss, can haunt the team for years.

Getting ahead of yourself, but I highly doubt they spend a #1 on QB again next year, assuming the front office is the same. It's the main problem I had with Fitzpatrick's contract- not so much the money, it was more the idea that they were "set" at QB, instead of looking at guys like Wilson in the draft.

They've essentially said Manuel is the guy who they feel will be the best QB in this draft and the future of the team. Time will tell, but I would have been MUCH more comfortable with another trade down first.

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Thanks for trying to talk me off the ledge guys. I just feel like we had the same conversation when we drafted Maybin. This team will probably be bad again in 2013. Then we'll have another high pick. What if there is a franchise QB available there? Do we take him, or will the team feel too invested in EJ to draft another 1st round QB? This is the kind of pick that, if a miss, can haunt the team for years.

Just have to hope that the new coaching staff knows what they are doing.

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 09:35, said:If you really believe in EJ, take him in the 2nd. If you get sniped, take someone else OR take a QB next year. It's not that hard to figure out.

if you really believe in him, why risk letting someone else get him?I'm guessing there was nobody at 16 that teams were interested in trading up for. no point in dropping down if nobody is willing to give up anything of value. they already made a smart move in dropping down from 8, imo.let's see what they do in round 2. some really good players available.
I'm probably the sucker that has hope no matter how many times the Bills have screwed up.But Norwood is definitely the guy that not only sees the glass as half empty, but smashed on the floor. Not sure I've ever seem him post something positive about the Bills.

Like I said above, I'm fine with the Manuel pick. If he's the guy the staff wants, I have no problem taking him at 16, and I'll give the new staff the benefit of the doubt on their evaluation.

Having said that, the "glass smashed on the floor" guys have been right for the past 13 years.

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Some positive stuff here if you want to feel optimistic. Especially regarding Manuel's his accuracy and his supposed "slow eyes":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLEMyMkDdU

One stat I liked was that of his passes that traveled more than 10 yards through the air, he was only 2% less accurate this past season than Andrew Luck was his senior season.

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 09:35, said:If you really believe in EJ, take him in the 2nd. If you get sniped, take someone else OR take a QB next year. It's not that hard to figure out.

if you really believe in him, why risk letting someone else get him?I'm guessing there was nobody at 16 that teams were interested in trading up for. no point in dropping down if nobody is willing to give up anything of value. they already made a smart move in dropping down from 8, imo.let's see what they do in round 2. some really good players available.

The "if you really believe in him" argument is valid, but they certainly could have found a trade partner if they wanted one. Atlanta gave up #30, #92, and #198 to move up to #22 (and a 7th in '15). SF gave up #31 and #74 to move up to #18. Etc.

What if someone else believed in him enough to take him in the 17-30 range?

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 09:35, said:If you really believe in EJ, take him in the 2nd. If you get sniped, take someone else OR take a QB next year. It's not that hard to figure out.

if you really believe in him, why risk letting someone else get him?I'm guessing there was nobody at 16 that teams were interested in trading up for. no point in dropping down if nobody is willing to give up anything of value. they already made a smart move in dropping down from 8, imo.let's see what they do in round 2. some really good players available.

The "if you really believe in him" argument is valid, but they certainly could have found a trade partner if they wanted one. Atlanta gave up #30, #92, and #198 to move up to #22 (and a 7th in '15). SF gave up #31 and #74 to move up to #18. Etc.

What if someone else believed in him enough to take him in the 17-30 range?

Edited by humpback

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Grigs Allmoon, on 26 Apr 2013 - 11:36, said:What if someone else believed in him enough to take him in the 17-30 range?

Yeah, I'm not sure if adding the 74th pick would be worth possibly losing out on the guy they really wanted. Hopefully they are right about Manuel. There's no way to know if Manuel would have slid like the other possible 1st round QBs did. The fact that nobody else moved up for Smith or Nassib does suggest there was some consensus with the Bills decision to pass on those guys.I've seen very mixed opinions on Manuel. Some people love him, some don't. We'll see.

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Watching a bunch of games for Manuel right now.

His receivers dropped 4 easy balls against N. Illinois. 3 against Clemson. First play of the game against Maryland dropped an easy 15 yarder. Sheesh.

He definitely throws a few balls each game that just seem to sail wild. But so far, I think this talk of him only going to the first read and tucking and running if it's not there seems overblown. Even when he pulls the ball down, he's always got his eyes downfield looking to throw still. And I see plenty of plays where he goes throw a progression. It's often on just half the field, but I think there are several legitimate reasons for that: 1) I think he reads the defense pre-snap really well. That means he understands what the defense is doing and what spots on the field are going to be open depending on what they do off the snap. You don't need to scan the whole field if you can find the open receiver quickly. 2) The offense was designed to get the ball out quickly. They utilized the speed of their WRs who were mostly undersized by getting the ball to them quickly 3) He seems to actually scan the field incredibly quickly and doesn't waste a lot of head movement in doing so. I bet a lot of the analysts think he's slow scanning the field just because they don't realize they're actually seeing him come back across his progression. Florida St. used a lot of routes that stacked which allowed him to scan them all quickly and then go back through a second time as the routes separated.

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I bet we see a ton of screens and option read stuff with Spiller and Graham. I don't know that there is a more ideal combo in the NFL to run the read option. Wilson and Harvin are an outstanding duo in Seattle, but with Graham as a third option, that's some dynamite.

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4 more drops against USF. 3 against Wake. 5 against Duke. Oof.

He does tend to sail passes high at times though, especially when he throws off his back foot which he tends to do too much.

This guy is definitely the anti-Fitzpatrick though. Not afraid to throw downfield and let his receivers get the ball. At all.

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Anyone else thinking of renouncing The Bills as your favorite team? I'm tired of the mental gymnastics that I have to do every time they pull something like this and I have to convince myself that "Maybe it's not so bad".

If you really believe in EJ, take him in the 2nd. If you get sniped, take someone else OR take a QB next year. It's not that hard to figure out.

I think you're crazy. It was a great move. They got another 2nd rounder and their top QB.

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:lmao: Kiper has Buffalo taking Eddie Lacey with their first pick in the 2nd round. I know they're not necessarily conventional, but come on man. At least he has them grabbing Hunter with the other pick.

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Anyone else thinking of renouncing The Bills as your favorite team? I'm tired of the mental gymnastics that I have to do every time they pull something like this and I have to convince myself that "Maybe it's not so bad".

If you really believe in EJ, take him in the 2nd. If you get sniped, take someone else OR take a QB next year. It's not that hard to figure out.

I think you're crazy. It was a great move. They got another 2nd rounder and their top QB.

Let me be clear.

Love the trade

Hate the pick (but wouldn't have minded it in the 2nd)

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:Hate the pick (but wouldn't have minded it in the 2nd)

which player taken at 16 would have made you happy?

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Tedy Bruschi just said on ESPN that he thinks the Bills had the best 1st round yesterday over all other teams.

Bruschi doesn't exactly set the world on fire with his analysis in general.

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:Hate the pick (but wouldn't have minded it in the 2nd)

which player taken at 16 would have made you happy?

The linebacker. Whatshisface. Or that WR that's supposed to be good

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:42, said:

Aaron Rudnicki, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:33, said:

ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:Hate the pick (but wouldn't have minded it in the 2nd)

which player taken at 16 would have made you happy?
The linebacker. Whatshisface. Or that WR that's supposed to be good
Te'o?Ogletree?Hopkins?Patterson?all of those guys wound up going at pick 27 or later.

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:42, said:

Aaron Rudnicki, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:33, said:

ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:Hate the pick (but wouldn't have minded it in the 2nd)

which player taken at 16 would have made you happy?
The linebacker. Whatshisface. Or that WR that's supposed to be good
Te'o?Ogletree?Hopkins?Patterson?all of those guys wound up going at pick 27 or later.

Probably Jones.

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it.

it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16.

Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

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ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:42, said:

Aaron Rudnicki, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:33, said:

ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:ScottNorwood, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:24, said:Hate the pick (but wouldn't have minded it in the 2nd)

which player taken at 16 would have made you happy?
The linebacker. Whatshisface. Or that WR that's supposed to be good
Te'o?Ogletree?Hopkins?Patterson?all of those guys wound up going at pick 27 or later.

Jarvis Jones?

Listen, you know me, I'm not as knowledgeable about the college game as most. But I do know that if a team takes a QB in the first round, he had better be great. There is a 1st round QB stigma with teams where they feel compelled to keep running him out there far too long. It can cripple your team for years.

A 2+ round QB doesn't have the same problem, and teams can have a quicker hook.

I also don't like the idea of sitting a QB the first year so he can "learn the system". That's old-school thinking which has been debunked by a lot of recent rookie QBs that have burst on the scene and had immediate impact. Everything I'm hearing points towards Kolb starting this year (AND MAYBE NEXT!!!) and then transitioning to EJ. That means you don't even know if this pick is any good until 3 years from now.

That's the end of my rant. Goodnight sweet Bills Thread. I love you all. And like the rest of you I hope he is great

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I believe I read before the draft that the Bills have never taken a QB with their first pick of the draft before. So this is new territory for them.

I, for one, am happy to see them go after a guy they really want like this instead of waiting and being stuck with leftovers like Losman (who they wound up having to overpay for anyway) and Edwards.

It might not work out, but I think the upside is worth the risk at that spot in the draft. 1st rounders don't cost nearly as much as they used to in the old CBA so if he's a flop they won't be compelled to stick with him based on contract reasons.

Bills had a huge, glaring need for help at the QB position. Hopefully Marrone can develop Manuel into a quality starter within a couple years. My expectations for the team are pretty low at this point, so I'm just hoping they can steadily build talent and not be a joke on both sides of the ball. If they can take advantage of the Rams pick they added in round 2 and land aother quality starter, I'll be pleased with the early part of the draft.

Looking back on that Maybin draft, they completely bombed on the first pick but then added Eric Wood, Jairus Byrd, and Andy Levitre with their next 3. That wound up being a good class as a result.

I'm not sure that Manuel will be the best QB in this class, but he has a lot of attributes that should help him do well in the Bills new offense I think. He's smart and a good athlete who also has the strong arm the team has needed for years. His floor is low but his ceiling is high. Hopefully Kolb can play well and stay healthy long enough to give Manuel some time to develop a bit.

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I posted some general analysis in the draft thread on why 1st rounders are better used on raw prospects than 2nd rounders and it applies here too I think.

With the new CBA, teams have an extra option year on players picked in picks 11-32. If they want them for that extra year, they pay the average of the 2-25 paid players at that position. If you take a raw QB in the first round with the intention of sitting and developing him, that extra year gives you one more year before you lose him or pay him big bucks if he pans out. The Niners will be paying Kaepernick sooner than the Bills would have to pay Manuel. And teams will have to decide on Geno/Nassib/Barkley a year earlier than the Bills will on Manuel.

With the much lower cost of first round contracts compared to previous years, I think that extra option year means it makes more sense to take a QB that may need a year at pick 16 than it does at pick 33 or 42 or elsewhere in that second round.

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it.

it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16.

Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

I agree that if you think the guy is the best QB in the draft, you take him at 16. I think the reason why many people rip it is because they don't agree that he is the best QB in the class. It's kind of hard to fault people for not being overly confident that the Bills are right and almost everyone else is wrong.

As for your last sentence, that can work both ways. We don't really know what offers they may have had at #16 (although there was a deal for #18), but we do know that there are plenty of QBs rated higher than Manuel by most who are available in the 2nd as well, maybe a reason no one was selling the farm to trade up for them. Again, they seem on an island here by themselves, and it can't be surprising that people are skeptical.

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it. it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16. Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

I agree that if you think the guy is the best QB in the draft, you take him at 16. I think the reason why many people rip it is because they don't agree that he is the best QB in the class. It's kind of hard to fault people for not being overly confident that the Bills are right and almost everyone else is wrong. As for your last sentence, that can work both ways. We don't really know what offers they may have had at #16 (although there was a deal for #18), but we do know that there are plenty of QBs rated higher than Manuel by most who are available in the 2nd as well, maybe a reason no one was selling the farm to trade up for them. Again, they seem on an island here by themselves, and it can't be surprising that people are skeptical.
This (other responses) is really just a case of fans rationalizing what at first glance appeared to be a reach-at the very least a big surprise to most everyone. It's what fans do. I've been following the Bills and Cowboys threads, similar responses in both threads to what were initially perceived as terrible picks. I'm not sure about the pick personally. I was surprised but didn't hate it. But....if this is a "project" quarterback-which just about all the talking heads and draft analysts say he is-then I'm not sure it makes sense. If he doesn't play for 2-3 years (which I highly doubt is the case-I think he plays this year) then it is a terrible pick IMO.

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it. it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16. Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

I agree that if you think the guy is the best QB in the draft, you take him at 16. I think the reason why many people rip it is because they don't agree that he is the best QB in the class. It's kind of hard to fault people for not being overly confident that the Bills are right and almost everyone else is wrong. As for your last sentence, that can work both ways. We don't really know what offers they may have had at #16 (although there was a deal for #18), but we do know that there are plenty of QBs rated higher than Manuel by most who are available in the 2nd as well, maybe a reason no one was selling the farm to trade up for them. Again, they seem on an island here by themselves, and it can't be surprising that people are skeptical.
This (other responses) is really just a case of fans rationalizing what at first glance appeared to be a reach-at the very least a big surprise to most everyone. It's what fans do. I've been following the Bills and Cowboys threads, similar responses in both threads to what were initially perceived as terrible picks. I'm not sure about the pick personally. I was surprised but didn't hate it. But....if this is a "project" quarterback-which just about all the talking heads and draft analysts say he is-then I'm not sure it makes sense. If he doesn't play for 2-3 years (which I highly doubt is the case-I think he plays this year) then it is a terrible pick IMO.
Actually, as I just pointed out, if he is a project and doesn't play for a year or two but reaches his potential, then taking him in the first makes way more sense than taking him in the 2nd.

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it.

it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16.

Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

I agree that if you think the guy is the best QB in the draft, you take him at 16. I think the reason why many people rip it is because they don't agree that he is the best QB in the class. It's kind of hard to fault people for not being overly confident that the Bills are right and almost everyone else is wrong.

As for your last sentence, that can work both ways. We don't really know what offers they may have had at #16 (although there was a deal for #18), but we do know that there are plenty of QBs rated higher than Manuel by most who are available in the 2nd as well, maybe a reason no one was selling the farm to trade up for them. Again, they seem on an island here by themselves, and it can't be surprising that people are skeptical.

I agree.

And I don't know if he's the best QB or not, but clearly, there wasn't a QB out there so good as to make this a crazy reach. Does anybody really like any of the other guys? Obviously, 32 NFL GM's don't. Not that that means one of these guys won't pan out, but this appears to be a remarkably underwhelming class.

With the other QBs being so weak, I do think that made it hard for the Bill to be confident someone else wouldn't snap up Manuel before the 2nd. We don't know what 14 teams though of Manuel, but now we've got a pretty good idea what they think of Geno and Barkley (and that was fairly predictable).

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With their decade plus long search for a QB, do you really think it is time to mess around waiting for a round to see if they can get him where he "should" go?

What happens if they dont? Why risk it? Other teams might be in a position to take that risk but the Bills (and Nix) arent.

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it. it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16. Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

I agree that if you think the guy is the best QB in the draft, you take him at 16. I think the reason why many people rip it is because they don't agree that he is the best QB in the class. It's kind of hard to fault people for not being overly confident that the Bills are right and almost everyone else is wrong. As for your last sentence, that can work both ways. We don't really know what offers they may have had at #16 (although there was a deal for #18), but we do know that there are plenty of QBs rated higher than Manuel by most who are available in the 2nd as well, maybe a reason no one was selling the farm to trade up for them. Again, they seem on an island here by themselves, and it can't be surprising that people are skeptical.
This (other responses) is really just a case of fans rationalizing what at first glance appeared to be a reach-at the very least a big surprise to most everyone. It's what fans do. I've been following the Bills and Cowboys threads, similar responses in both threads to what were initially perceived as terrible picks. I'm not sure about the pick personally. I was surprised but didn't hate it. But....if this is a "project" quarterback-which just about all the talking heads and draft analysts say he is-then I'm not sure it makes sense. If he doesn't play for 2-3 years (which I highly doubt is the case-I think he plays this year) then it is a terrible pick IMO.
Actually, as I just pointed out, if he is a project and doesn't play for a year or two but reaches his potential, then taking him in the first makes way more sense than taking him in the 2nd.
Actually, not really. It's nonsensical to think it makes more sense to take a project in the first rather than the second. You're ignoring the cost of passing on the premium 1st rounder you would have taken in place of the "project". There is nobody in 49'ers management who is resisting paying Kaepernick when his time comes (assuming he continues at his current level). That's the whole point-he's performing. He was taken in the second round if I recall (haven't looked it up, maybe he was later) which is a bit more sensible for a project QB-which Kaepernick was considered also.I like Manuel, I hope he does well, I hope the Bills hit a home run with this pick, that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm mostly just commenting on fan behavior more so than the pick itself. I think it's interesting seeing the stages that invested team fans go through. First the pick sucks horribly, then the mental gymnastics to try and justify it/find the silver lining/ultimately arrive at the conclusion that is was a great pick. Edited by Gandalf the Grey

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it.

it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16.

Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

I agree that if you think the guy is the best QB in the draft, you take him at 16. I think the reason why many people rip it is because they don't agree that he is the best QB in the class. It's kind of hard to fault people for not being overly confident that the Bills are right and almost everyone else is wrong.

As for your last sentence, that can work both ways. We don't really know what offers they may have had at #16 (although there was a deal for #18), but we do know that there are plenty of QBs rated higher than Manuel by most who are available in the 2nd as well, maybe a reason no one was selling the farm to trade up for them. Again, they seem on an island here by themselves, and it can't be surprising that people are skeptical.

I agree.

And I don't know if he's the best QB or not, but clearly, there wasn't a QB out there so good as to make this a crazy reach. Does anybody really like any of the other guys? Obviously, 32 NFL GM's don't. Not that that means one of these guys won't pan out, but this appears to be a remarkably underwhelming class.

With the other QBs being so weak, I do think that made it hard for the Bill to be confident someone else wouldn't snap up Manuel before the 2nd. We don't know what 14 teams though of Manuel, but now we've got a pretty good idea what they think of Geno and Barkley (and that was fairly predictable).

I'm not following- how is it clear that there wasn't a QB out there so good as to make this a crazy reach?

The fact that it's an underwhelming class doesn't really help the case that this was a good pick IMO. The longer it takes for the other QBs to be drafted, the bigger the reach appears unless he ends up head and shoulders above them. Most people think he's not as good as a couple of the others.

With their decade plus long search for a QB, do you really think it is time to mess around waiting for a round to see if they can get him where he "should" go?What happens if they dont? Why risk it? Other teams might be in a position to take that risk but the Bills (and Nix) arent.

It isn't so much about it being pick #16. It's about whether Manuel is the right pick. If he pans out, the pick won't matter. If he doesn't, and/or one or more of the other QBs is better than him, then it will have been a bad decision.

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I, for one, look forward to the countless internet battles we'll have with Jets fans over who is the better QB pick.

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Love the Woods pick. Love it.

What I'm reading says he is an ideal #2 WR and punt returner. Doesn't have elite speed, but runs great routes, is strong, and is very polished to contribute right away. Looks like a good compliment to Stevie, with Graham playing the slot.

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No idea what'll become of Manuel, but I thought it was a fine move. Really can't see how so many rip it. it's pretty simple. If you think the guy is the best QB in the draft and you see him as a potential franchise QB, you take him at 16. Maybe he falls to the 2nd, maybe he doesn't, but it's the QB position. You think he's good, you take him. There will be plenty of good players to draft in the 2nd at other positions (a reason nobody was selling the farm to trade up to #16).

I agree that if you think the guy is the best QB in the draft, you take him at 16. I think the reason why many people rip it is because they don't agree that he is the best QB in the class. It's kind of hard to fault people for not being overly confident that the Bills are right and almost everyone else is wrong. As for your last sentence, that can work both ways. We don't really know what offers they may have had at #16 (although there was a deal for #18), but we do know that there are plenty of QBs rated higher than Manuel by most who are available in the 2nd as well, maybe a reason no one was selling the farm to trade up for them. Again, they seem on an island here by themselves, and it can't be surprising that people are skeptical.
This (other responses) is really just a case of fans rationalizing what at first glance appeared to be a reach-at the very least a big surprise to most everyone. It's what fans do. I've been following the Bills and Cowboys threads, similar responses in both threads to what were initially perceived as terrible picks. I'm not sure about the pick personally. I was surprised but didn't hate it. But....if this is a "project" quarterback-which just about all the talking heads and draft analysts say he is-then I'm not sure it makes sense. If he doesn't play for 2-3 years (which I highly doubt is the case-I think he plays this year) then it is a terrible pick IMO.
Actually, as I just pointed out, if he is a project and doesn't play for a year or two but reaches his potential, then taking him in the first makes way more sense than taking him in the 2nd.
Actually, not really. It's nonsensical to think it makes more sense to take a project in the first rather than the second. You're ignoring the cost of passing on the premium 1st rounder you would have taken in place of the "project". There is nobody in 49'ers management who is resisting paying Kaepernick when his time comes (assuming he continues at his current level). That's the whole point-he's performing. He was taken in the second round if I recall (haven't looked it up, maybe he was later) which is a bit more sensible for a project QB-which Kaepernick was considered also.I like Manuel, I hope he does well, I hope the Bills hit a home run with this pick, that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm mostly just commenting on fan behavior more so than the pick itself. I think it's interesting seeing the stages that invested team fans go through. First the pick sucks horribly, then the mental gymnastics to try and justify it/find the silver lining/ultimately arrive at the conclusion that is was a great pick.
Premium 1st round pick? Like who? Jarvis Jones a d Tyler Eifert were itm

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Did that Bills fan that used Footballguys to win the trip to NYC and gets to announce the 4th round pick ever come back? It'd be cool to hear what it was like.

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Accidentally deleted my post on Kiko. Would have much preferred Brown. But he is versatile and hearing him described as a "big bad ###" is heartening. Also like to hear he is fierce with a high motor. Get rid of that lazy wuss Sheppard.

Edited by GroveDiesel

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IMO, the other QBs falling so far makes the decision to pick Manuel at #16 look that much worse.

It would seem strange, but would the Bills consider another QB here in the 3rd?

ETA- guess not, another WR.

Edited by humpback

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So the Bills got killed for reaching and taking Manuel in the 1st, but what if they just took the equivalent to Tavon Austin in the middle of the 3rd? Sounds like the only difference between Austin and Goodwin could be one had a coach that knew how to use him and the other one didn't?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap1000000145123/article/tavon-austin-marquise-goodwin-revive-nfl-tweener-questions

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