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GroveDiesel

***Official Buffalo Bills Thread 2019 Version***

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I like this draft a lot so far. The team seems to be getting who they want at each pick and they're areas of need. Good stuff.

Giving the staff the benefit of the doubt on player evaluation.

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So the Bills got killed for reaching and taking Manuel in the 1st, but what if they just took the equivalent to Tavon Austin in the middle of the 3rd? Sounds like the only difference between Austin and Goodwin could be one had a coach that knew how to use him and the other one didn't?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap1000000145123/article/tavon-austin-marquise-goodwin-revive-nfl-tweener-questions

It says biggest (not only) difference, and "could be" (actually might be) is pretty important. This is also just one scouts opinion, who still said Austin is the better prospect.

In any event, it wouldn't change the fact that it looks extremely likely that they reached big time in the 1st.

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I like this draft a lot so far. The team seems to be getting who they want at each pick and they're areas of need. Good stuff.Giving the staff the benefit of the doubt on player evaluation.

Same here. The more I research each player, the happier I get.

If they can land another player who ends up being a contributor on D in rounds 4-7 it would be icing on the cake.

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IMO, the other QBs falling so far makes the decision to pick Manuel at #16 look that much worse.

Does it?

Or, does it reinforce their decision? Maybe they rated the other QBs lower (as the rest of the league has) and they wanted to nab the top prospect, so they didn't have to settle for any of the others.

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IMO, the other QBs falling so far makes the decision to pick Manuel at #16 look that much worse.

Does it? Or, does it reinforce their decision? Maybe they rated the other QBs lower (as the rest of the league has) and they wanted to nab the top prospect, so they didn't have to settle for any of the others.
Agreed. Who is to say Manuel wasn't the top QB on a lot of boards by far? Why are we trusting the rankings of the same media idiots that seem to get so much wrong every year?

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IMO, the other QBs falling so far makes the decision to pick Manuel at #16 look that much worse.

Does it? Or, does it reinforce their decision? Maybe they rated the other QBs lower (as the rest of the league has) and they wanted to nab the top prospect, so they didn't have to settle for any of the others.
Agreed. Who is to say Manuel wasn't the top QB on a lot of boards by far? Why are we trusting the rankings of the same media idiots that seem to get so much wrong every year?

I admire the optimism, but it seems extremely unlikely. There's a very realistic chance that Manuel would still be available if Buffalo didn't select him.

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So the Bills got killed for reaching and taking Manuel in the 1st, but what if they just took the equivalent to Tavon Austin in the middle of the 3rd? Sounds like the only difference between Austin and Goodwin could be one had a coach that knew how to use him and the other one didn't?http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap1000000145123/article/tavon-austin-marquise-goodwin-revive-nfl-tweener-questions

It says biggest (not only) difference, and "could be" (actually might be) is pretty important. This is also just one scouts opinion, who still said Austin is the better prospect.

In any event, it wouldn't change the fact that it looks extremely likely that they reached big time in the 1st.

It would be more accurate to say that the only similarities between Austin and Goodwin are size and speed than the only difference being a coach the knew how to use them. TJ Graham (sp) is a speedster too and he's no Tavon Austin.

Still, speed has obvious value and Buffalo might have the most speed in the league at the skill positions now. Hopefully that translates to the field.

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IMO, the other QBs falling so far makes the decision to pick Manuel at #16 look that much worse.

Does it? Or, does it reinforce their decision? Maybe they rated the other QBs lower (as the rest of the league has) and they wanted to nab the top prospect, so they didn't have to settle for any of the others.
Agreed. Who is to say Manuel wasn't the top QB on a lot of boards by far? Why are we trusting the rankings of the same media idiots that seem to get so much wrong every year?
As opposed to the stellar track records of team personnel departments?

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A stastistical scouting report on EJ Manuel.

Warning, its pretty brutal. :scared:

http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/08/ej-manuel-statistical-scouting-report/

Like Nassib, EJ statistically grades out as one of the better QBs in the draft. This of course is why we use statistics to complement film study, but like Nassib it gives me a little pause. Even given that his receivers clearly gave him a lot of help, he still comes out with some of the best completion percentages among the zones. There really aren’t any huge red flags on Manuel statistically. We can worry a little bit about the fact that his deep ball is around 42%, but Tannehill’s last year graded out at 33%.

It’s interesting that thus far, the ‘top tier’ QBs are the ones that have come out with more statistical red flags than either Nassib or Manuel. For instance: Glennon has a huge amount of overthrows, Smith throws into double coverage a lot, and Wilson underthrows the ball often. However, we look at Manuel and don’t see anything that is truly concerning. This doesn’t make him the top pick by any means, but we have to then go to the tape to find what’s causing his draft stock to be lower.

Seems pretty good to me.

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PFT has the brilliant idea of the Bills taking Nassib tomorrow, following Washington's lead from last season with RG3/Cousins. Albert Breer retweets it, now it's spreading like wild fire. Schefter just came up with the same idea. Just because Washington did it, I fail to see what that has to do with Buffalo. This team has too many needs to make a luxury pick like that.

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A stastistical scouting report on EJ Manuel.

Warning, its pretty brutal. :scared:

http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/08/ej-manuel-statistical-scouting-report/

Like Nassib, EJ statistically grades out as one of the better QBs in the draft. This of course is why we use statistics to complement film study, but like Nassib it gives me a little pause. Even given that his receivers clearly gave him a lot of help, he still comes out with some of the best completion percentages among the zones. There really arent any huge red flags on Manuel statistically. We can worry a little bit about the fact that his deep ball is around 42%, but Tannehills last year graded out at 33%.

Its interesting that thus far, the top tier QBs are the ones that have come out with more statistical red flags than either Nassib or Manuel. For instance: Glennon has a huge amount of overthrows, Smith throws into double coverage a lot, and Wilson underthrows the ball often. However, we look at Manuel and dont see anything that is truly concerning. This doesnt make him the top pick by any means, but we have to then go to the tape to find whats causing his draft stock to be lower.

Seems pretty good to me.

Agreed. And even that has some misleading stuff. A 42% down field completion percentage isn't that bad. In fact, it's only 2% lower than Luck's was his senior season.

And saying that Manuel's receivers helped him out is only sort of true. They did make some nice plays on the ball on some jump ball type throws he made, but I would argue that those are catches good NFL receivers should make anyway. And as I detailed earlier, his receivers dropped a ton of balls too. In the 5 games I watched today, they dropped 20+ passes that hit them right in the hands and should have been pretty simple catches. That's a whole lot of freaking drops. His completion percentage on the year could have easily been over 70% without all the drops. Even up into the 72-73%. I'm not sure where that guy gets his receivers only dropping 5% of his passes unless they just never dropped the ball in the other games I didn't watch.

Edited by GroveDiesel

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The Bills are finally an interesting team - Manuel, Spiller, Johnson, Woods, and Goodwin (assuming he can catch). TE is still a question mark.

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PFT has the brilliant idea of the Bills taking Nassib tomorrow, following Washington's lead from last season with RG3/Cousins. Albert Breer retweets it, now it's spreading like wild fire. Schefter just came up with the same idea. Just because Washington did it, I fail to see what that has to do with Buffalo. This team has too many needs to make a luxury pick like that.

I disagree. QB is the most important position on the field, you have to get it right. If that takes an extra 4th round pick it's a small price to pay.

Edited by humpback

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PFT has the brilliant idea of the Bills taking Nassib tomorrow, following Washington's lead from last season with RG3/Cousins. Albert Breer retweets it, now it's spreading like wild fire. Schefter just came up with the same idea. Just because Washington did it, I fail to see what that has to do with Buffalo. This team has too many needs to make a luxury pick like that.

I disagree. QB is the most important position on the field, you have to get it right. If that takes an extra 4th round pick it's a small price to pay.

:goodposting:

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I thought Manuel and Nassib were the two best QBs in the draft. I thought Nassib seemed more likely to be ready now while Manuel had the higher upside. And while the Bills could use a pass catching TE, another CB, a Guard and possibly a safety, I'm not sure there are any guys at those positions that pencil in as immediate starters anyway except maybe at Guard. I'd rather double down and bring Nassib in than give Tarvaris Jackson another shot.

I don't see it happening though. As badly as Marrone feels about Nassib falling so far, I think the Bills had a plan coming into the draft and will stick with that plan. My guess is they go Guard, TE or CB with the 4th and 5th round picks then go after some more athletes, probably at the LB/CB/S/G positions.

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Oh, and after watching some video of Robert Woods this morning I totally get why Barkley has fallen so far. He made a lot of terrible reads and has major accuracy issues. Lee and Woods bailed him out a ton. He was lucky to have such great WRs or his numbers would have looked a lot worse.

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Sal Capaccio (@SalSports) tweeted at 10:48 AM on Sat, Apr 27, 2013:

#Bills offensive players' 40-yd dash times (unofficial): CJ Spiller (4.28); TJ Graham (4.34); Marquise Goodwin (4.27);

That is a LOT of speed! Add in Manuel's decent speed and sheesh. And I've seen talk that Goodwin has actually run the 40 sub 4.2 before.

Graham and Goodwin may not be highly polished, but put them in some read option looks with Spiller in the backfield and you could be looking at some huge plays. I don't think there are teams with the linebackers and safeties to stop that speed. Especially with so much of the AFC focusing on bigger safeties and smaller linebackers to stop New England's tight ends.

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If the Bills can get the ball downfield, they could be a nightmare to defend with CJ and EJ also to contend with.

I realize that is an enormous IF, but hopefully a new coaching philosophy helps.

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Bills finish up their push for speed by using their last pick on a TE that ran a 4.5 at the combine.

They may not end up being good, but by golly they should be fun to watch.

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And now the Bills have signed Da'rick Rogers. Talk about a huge 180 on character issues for this team and Buddy Nix. Should be interesting. Guy has a ton of talent. Would have been a first rounder and probably #1 WR in this draft without the character issues. Saw several comparisons to Julio Jones talent-wise.

Edited by GroveDiesel

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I've see a lot of negativity around the TE position for the Bills in the past few days.....why? I know Scott Chandler isn't a world-beater Antonio Gates-type (can you get Gates?) but he's hardly some scrub....he's probably the best TE the Bills have had in the past decade, maybe since like, say, Jay Riemersma. I get that there's always room for improvement, but Chandler isn't really a weak spot on this team, compared to some of the other glaring weaknesses.

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I've see a lot of negativity around the TE position for the Bills in the past few days.....why? I know Scott Chandler isn't a world-beater Antonio Gates-type (can you get Gates?) but he's hardly some scrub....he's probably the best TE the Bills have had in the past decade, maybe since like, say, Jay Riemersma. I get that there's always room for improvement, but Chandler isn't really a weak spot on this team, compared to some of the other glaring weaknesses.

I agree. He's not a Gronkowski/Hernandez/Graham but he's pretty solid, especially in the red zone. He doesn't stretch the field like those guys, but he gets the job done. And frankly, I don't think they need a TE to stretch the field in Hackett's offense. Especially not with guys like Spiller, Graham and Goodwin.I think the biggest concern with him is the injury. He may not even be ready to start the season.But with defenses all trying to load up to stop those athletic tight ends, spreading them out with purr speed could destroy those defenses. Miami just spent their off season throwing a ton of money at Ellerbe and trading up for Dion Jordan. Have fun watching those guys sit on the sidelines when the Bills go 5 wide with Stevie, Spiller, Graham, Goodwin and either Woods or Rogers. There isn't a safety or dime corner in the world with a prayer of covering Graham or Goodwin in that formation, let alone linebackers like Jordan and Ellerbe.

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Bills finish up their push for speed by using their last pick on a TE that ran a 4.5 at the combine.They may not end up being good, but by golly they should be fun to watch.

And now the Bills have signed Da'rick Rogers. Talk about a huge 180 on character issues for this team and Buddy Nix. Should be interesting. Guy has a ton of talent. Would have been a first rounder and probably #1 WR in this draft without the character issues. Saw several comparisons to Julio Jones talent-wise.

You've got to be excited about both of these prospects. Hopefully at least one will pan out.

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I've see a lot of negativity around the TE position for the Bills in the past few days.....why? I know Scott Chandler isn't a world-beater Antonio Gates-type (can you get Gates?) but he's hardly some scrub....he's probably the best TE the Bills have had in the past decade, maybe since like, say, Jay Riemersma. I get that there's always room for improvement, but Chandler isn't really a weak spot on this team, compared to some of the other glaring weaknesses.

I like Chandler as well, but the guy blew out his knee in week 16. If he's even able to play in the beginning of the season it would be a pleasant surprise, nevermind be near 100%. They have zero depth at TE- their #2 had 13 yards on the season. I think TE certainly is a need.

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Between the contracts given to Jackson and Kolb and grabbing 3 WRs with the draft/UDFA, Brad Smith and his ridiculous contract have to be on really thin ice, right?

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I suspect that part of the plan is moving Dorin Dickerson to TE. His number switched from 40 something to 80 something this offseason.

I think they are moving him to WR.
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Between the contracts given to Jackson and Kolb and grabbing 3 WRs with the draft/UDFA, Brad Smith and his ridiculous contract have to be on really thin ice, right?

Let's hope so. He's the most worthless player on the team, considering how much he's getting paid.

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Between the contracts given to Jackson and Kolb and grabbing 3 WRs with the draft/UDFA, Brad Smith and his ridiculous contract have to be on really thin ice, right?

Let's hope so. He's the most worthless player on the team, considering how much he's getting paid.

oh no. He's 'veteran presence' teaching the young ones how to be a WR in the pros

:sarcasm:

Only they have played the position for longer...

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Can someone explain to me the reason for drafting TWO safeties when we already have young THREE safeties on the roster that were drafted in the last 4 years (Byrd, Williams and Searcy)? I take it this means there's no chance in signing Byrd to a long-term deal. What the hell is the point in even bothering to draft if you're going to constantly let your best young guys walk away (Byrd, Levitre, Peters, Whitner, Clements, Winfield,etc.)?

And WTF is up with drafting a KICKER for the SECOND YEAR IN A ROW? With all of this team's needs, we drafted ANOTHER kicker?

I am so fed up with this team. I'd say it's a circus at One Bills Drive except this team isn't even entertaining... we just suck. Every. Damn. Year.

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Here's the problem for the Bills on Byrd: he wants $9M a year at a position that simply isn't a premium position. His agent is Eugene Parker which should give every Bills fan the chills. The guy is the most evil agent in football. Byrd WILL be the highest paid safety in the league whether it's Buffalo or someone else. Parker won't allow Byrd to give any sort of discout because the Bills drafted him or because they want to do a deal early. Do you really want to pay $9-10M a year on a safety?

That amount of money would most likely mean you can't later sign Spiller and Wood and Glenn and Gilmore in a few years. I mean, do you really think Levitre was worth what he got? Guards just can't make that kind of money if you want to have a great team.

Now if you want to argue they over paid on Anderson and Brad Smith and Tarvaris Jackson, etc. you won't hear me argue.

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Can someone explain to me the reason for drafting TWO safeties when we already have young THREE safeties on the roster that were drafted in the last 4 years (Byrd, Williams and Searcy)? I take it this means there's no chance in signing Byrd to a long-term deal. What the hell is the point in even bothering to draft if you're going to constantly let your best young guys walk away (Byrd, Levitre, Peters, Whitner, Clements, Winfield,etc.)?

And WTF is up with drafting a KICKER for the SECOND YEAR IN A ROW? With all of this team's needs, we drafted ANOTHER kicker?

I am so fed up with this team. I'd say it's a circus at One Bills Drive except this team isn't even entertaining... we just suck. Every. Damn. Year.

not sure it's worth getting bent out of shape over 5th through 7th round picks. They are mostly special teams players and aren't that much more likely to make the team than undrafted free agents.

It will suck to lose Byrd, but I agree with Grove that he may not be worth his asking price. Tough spot for the team there. And I agree with you that it's almost impossible to improve when all the good players they draft and develop wind up leaving in free agency or via trade.

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Can someone explain to me the reason for drafting TWO safeties when we already have young THREE safeties on the roster that were drafted in the last 4 years (Byrd, Williams and Searcy)? I take it this means there's no chance in signing Byrd to a long-term deal. What the hell is the point in even bothering to draft if you're going to constantly let your best young guys walk away (Byrd, Levitre, Peters, Whitner, Clements, Winfield,etc.)?

And WTF is up with drafting a KICKER for the SECOND YEAR IN A ROW? With all of this team's needs, we drafted ANOTHER kicker?

I am so fed up with this team. I'd say it's a circus at One Bills Drive except this team isn't even entertaining... we just suck. Every. Damn. Year.

not sure it's worth getting bent out of shape over 5th through 7th round picks. They are mostly special teams players and aren't that much more likely to make the team than undrafted free agents.

It will suck to lose Byrd, but I agree with Grove that he may not be worth his asking price. Tough spot for the team there. And I agree with you that it's almost impossible to improve when all the good players they draft and develop wind up leaving in free agency or via trade.

Agreed. I hated seeing Levitre walk, and I won't be happy if we lose Byrd. Having said that, safeties and to a lesser extent guards are expendable. The front office seems to have its priorities straight on this one.

I really liked this draft overall, and I love the Rogers signing. In the long run the success of this draft will almost certainly hinge on how Manuel does, since the team put itself in a position where they absolutely had no choice but to draft a QB from a weak class, but it's hard to argue much with how things went after the first even if you weren't fond of that particular pick. (I'm okay with it).

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Here's the problem for the Bills on Byrd: he wants $9M a year at a position that simply isn't a premium position. His agent is Eugene Parker which should give every Bills fan the chills. The guy is the most evil agent in football. Byrd WILL be the highest paid safety in the league whether it's Buffalo or someone else. Parker won't allow Byrd to give any sort of discout because the Bills drafted him or because they want to do a deal early. Do you really want to pay $9-10M a year on a safety?That amount of money would most likely mean you can't later sign Spiller and Wood and Glenn and Gilmore in a few years. I mean, do you really think Levitre was worth what he got? Guards just can't make that kind of money if you want to have a great team.Now if you want to argue they over paid on Anderson and Brad Smith and Tarvaris Jackson, etc. you won't hear me argue.

OK, then go ahead and draft ONE safety. The second pick was absolutely superfluous and prevented the team from shoring up other areas like, oh, I don't know, maybe GUARD (ahem, Levitre).

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Can someone explain to me the reason for drafting TWO safeties when we already have young THREE safeties on the roster that were drafted in the last 4 years (Byrd, Williams and Searcy)? I take it this means there's no chance in signing Byrd to a long-term deal. What the hell is the point in even bothering to draft if you're going to constantly let your best young guys walk away (Byrd, Levitre, Peters, Whitner, Clements, Winfield,etc.)?

And WTF is up with drafting a KICKER for the SECOND YEAR IN A ROW? With all of this team's needs, we drafted ANOTHER kicker?

I am so fed up with this team. I'd say it's a circus at One Bills Drive except this team isn't even entertaining... we just suck. Every. Damn. Year.

not sure it's worth getting bent out of shape over 5th through 7th round picks. They are mostly special teams players and aren't that much more likely to make the team than undrafted free agents.

It will suck to lose Byrd, but I agree with Grove that he may not be worth his asking price. Tough spot for the team there. And I agree with you that it's almost impossible to improve when all the good players they draft and develop wind up leaving in free agency or via trade.

I get bent out of shape because that means it's one less opportunity to build depth where you actually need it... OL, LBs, CBs, etc.

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Can someone explain to me the reason for drafting TWO safeties when we already have young THREE safeties on the roster that were drafted in the last 4 years (Byrd, Williams and Searcy)? I take it this means there's no chance in signing Byrd to a long-term deal. What the hell is the point in even bothering to draft if you're going to constantly let your best young guys walk away (Byrd, Levitre, Peters, Whitner, Clements, Winfield,etc.)? And WTF is up with drafting a KICKER for the SECOND YEAR IN A ROW? With all of this team's needs, we drafted ANOTHER kicker? I am so fed up with this team. I'd say it's a circus at One Bills Drive except this team isn't even entertaining... we just suck. Every. Damn. Year.

Nix said in his press conference that Williams is versatile enough to play nickel CB, which is one of the ways they plan on using him. Meeks is strictly a S.

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I am extremely surprised that the Bills front office is overlooking these character issues. Try have been avoiding those types of players for years, and shipped them out if they became issues (McGahee, Lynch). Now they've abandoned that philosophy and targeted several players with character issues.

The shift in philosophy is pretty extreme. Do they think they can keep these kids in check? Or are they more concerned with bringing in talent first and building chemistry and cohesiveness later?

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I am extremely surprised that the Bills front office is overlooking these character issues. Try have been avoiding those types of players for years, and shipped them out if they became issues (McGahee, Lynch). Now they've abandoned that philosophy and targeted several players with character issues.The shift in philosophy is pretty extreme. Do they think they can keep these kids in check? Or are they more concerned with bringing in talent first and building chemistry and cohesiveness later?

I think it's pretty telling that this is the first draft since Ralph Wilson relinquished control of the organization, and all the sudden the Bills are drafting like the other 31 teams.

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Good point. It's a gamble surely.

I'm happy with this draft, just wondering what's next. I expected more defensive players to be acquired this offseason for Pettine. We got Kiko and a pair of safeties but that's it in this draft.

Our OL was good for once, now it's been weakened with no obvious replacements. The LB position lacks depth, and we are still weak at TE. I really like Chandler, he is dependable and there in clutch situations. But I doubt he is there week 1. I expected them to go for an every down type of guy in this draft.

The overall talent has obviously increased, but we aren't out of the woods yet.

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Buffalo Bills coach Marrone: 'It hurts' to pass on Nassib

By Gregg Rosenthal

Around The League Editor

Someone convinced a lot of smart reporters that Buffalo Bills coach Doug Marrone would take his college pupil Ryan Nassib in the first round of the NFL Draft, or the second round at least. Nassib didn't get scooped up until the fourth round by the New York Giants, where he can be Eli Manning's little brother.

The dynamic between Marrone and Nassib is fascinating. The two men helped each other get to the NFL, but Marrone felt that Florida State quarterback EJ Manuel was a better pro prospect. (We agree.)

"I thought the situation in Buffalo was going to go a little bit different ... I was a little disappointed," Nassib said.

SI.com's Peter King said Nassib was more than a "little disappointed" which is to be expected. King describes Nassib as "wounded." This was Nassib's "Welcome to the NFL" moment. It was a tough decision for Marrone too.

"In one sense, you study all the quarterbacks and you get the one you believe is the best one, and you're happy. You're ecstatic," Marrone told King. "In another sense, you're hurting about Ryan. And it did hurt. ... It was very difficult after what we did together. It hurts. It definitely hurts. He's a special kid. Unbelievable worker. So smart. Very, very good quarterback with all the intangibles. He will win games in this league.

"The responsibility I had was to get the best player we could get."

You can't fault Marrone for doing what he felt was right for the Bills. You can't fault Nassib for being wounded after he had such high expectations. It's an early reminder to both men that the NFL isn't about personal relationships. It's a business, and it's often a cold-blooded one.

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Maybe I'm a fool, but I believe this team has a lot of talent but that Gailey and his guys did a horrible job at developing it. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. I can't think of a single guy on the defense that you could say got appreciably better in the last 3 years. It just seemed like there was a lot of raw talent that couldn't produce on the field.

It remains to be seen if Marrone and Hackett can develop their talent on the offensive side of the ball. And that will be the most critical piece obviously, especially with Manuel and other raw talent but rare athletes like Goodwin/Rogers/Bragg/Graham.

Luckily we've seen Pettine help develop guys and turn them around in NY. McKelvin could easily be the next Cromartie. Cromartie had a lot of the same issues McKelvin has now and Pettine helped him eliminate a lot of them. If Pettine can get guys like Dareus, Sheppard, Bradham, Alonso, Carrington, Williams and Gilmore to play to their potential, the defense could be the elite defense it should have been last year.

Edited by GroveDiesel

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Agreed. I hated seeing Levitre walk, and I won't be happy if we lose Byrd. Having said that, safeties and to a lesser extent guards are expendable. The front office seems to have its priorities straight on this one.

I really liked this draft overall, and I love the Rogers signing. In the long run the success of this draft will almost certainly hinge on how Manuel does, since the team put itself in a position where they absolutely had no choice but to draft a QB from a weak class, but it's hard to argue much with how things went after the first even if you weren't fond of that particular pick. (I'm okay with it).

I disagree- how did they have absolutely no choice but to draft a QB from this weak class? They could have gone with another need, like Jarvis Jones for instance, and stuck with Kolb for a year (besides drafting a QB much later obviously).

Also, I think Woods is the only pick that's hard to argue myself.

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Agreed. I hated seeing Levitre walk, and I won't be happy if we lose Byrd. Having said that, safeties and to a lesser extent guards are expendable. The front office seems to have its priorities straight on this one.

I really liked this draft overall, and I love the Rogers signing. In the long run the success of this draft will almost certainly hinge on how Manuel does, since the team put itself in a position where they absolutely had no choice but to draft a QB from a weak class, but it's hard to argue much with how things went after the first even if you weren't fond of that particular pick. (I'm okay with it).

I disagree- how did they have absolutely no choice but to draft a QB from this weak class? They could have gone with another need, like Jarvis Jones for instance, and stuck with Kolb for a year (besides drafting a QB much later obviously).

Also, I think Woods is the only pick that's hard to argue myself.

If they were just going to just stumble along with a placeholder at QB, then they might as well have kept Fitz.

This FO has absolutely refused to draft a QB, for whatever reason, the result being that they're bringing in a new staff with the cupboard completely bare at the most important position. And given that none of our staffs lasts longer than 3-4 years, it's just not reasoanble to ask them to muddle through for a year. Somewhere along the line the team simply has to start investing draft picks at QB and keep doing so until it gets one right. If Manuel doesn't work out, fine, we'll draft another. At least they're actually trying now.

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Agreed. I hated seeing Levitre walk, and I won't be happy if we lose Byrd. Having said that, safeties and to a lesser extent guards are expendable. The front office seems to have its priorities straight on this one.

I really liked this draft overall, and I love the Rogers signing. In the long run the success of this draft will almost certainly hinge on how Manuel does, since the team put itself in a position where they absolutely had no choice but to draft a QB from a weak class, but it's hard to argue much with how things went after the first even if you weren't fond of that particular pick. (I'm okay with it).

I disagree- how did they have absolutely no choice but to draft a QB from this weak class? They could have gone with another need, like Jarvis Jones for instance, and stuck with Kolb for a year (besides drafting a QB much later obviously).

Also, I think Woods is the only pick that's hard to argue myself.

If they were just going to just stumble along with a placeholder at QB, then they might as well have kept Fitz.

This FO has absolutely refused to draft a QB, for whatever reason, the result being that they're bringing in a new staff with the cupboard completely bare at the most important position. And given that none of our staffs lasts longer than 3-4 years, it's just not reasoanble to ask them to muddle through for a year. Somewhere along the line the team simply has to start investing draft picks at QB and keep doing so until it gets one right. If Manuel doesn't work out, fine, we'll draft another. At least they're actually trying now.

Okay, but they still had a choice. If they didn't like the QBs in this class, it would be insanely foolish to spend a high pick on one "just because". There are plenty of other options.

The reason the FO refused to draft a QB was because they thought they had their guy in Fitzpatrick. It's part of what makes me uneasy about this draft, because now they are "all in" with Manuel. We don't even know how much he's going to play this season, but I wouldn't expect much of a difference in W/L's over Kolb, so it's probably going to be muddling through the year either way.

I agree with the end, which is why I wish they had taken Nassib in the 4th. They have to get it right, why not increase your chances for a relatively small price?

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Agreed. I hated seeing Levitre walk, and I won't be happy if we lose Byrd. Having said that, safeties and to a lesser extent guards are expendable. The front office seems to have its priorities straight on this one.

I really liked this draft overall, and I love the Rogers signing. In the long run the success of this draft will almost certainly hinge on how Manuel does, since the team put itself in a position where they absolutely had no choice but to draft a QB from a weak class, but it's hard to argue much with how things went after the first even if you weren't fond of that particular pick. (I'm okay with it).

I disagree- how did they have absolutely no choice but to draft a QB from this weak class? They could have gone with another need, like Jarvis Jones for instance, and stuck with Kolb for a year (besides drafting a QB much later obviously).

Also, I think Woods is the only pick that's hard to argue myself.

If they were just going to just stumble along with a placeholder at QB, then they might as well have kept Fitz.

This FO has absolutely refused to draft a QB, for whatever reason, the result being that they're bringing in a new staff with the cupboard completely bare at the most important position. And given that none of our staffs lasts longer than 3-4 years, it's just not reasoanble to ask them to muddle through for a year. Somewhere along the line the team simply has to start investing draft picks at QB and keep doing so until it gets one right. If Manuel doesn't work out, fine, we'll draft another. At least they're actually trying now.

Okay, but they still had a choice. If they didn't like the QBs in this class, it would be insanely foolish to spend a high pick on one "just because". There are plenty of other options.

The reason the FO refused to draft a QB was because they thought they had their guy in Fitzpatrick. It's part of what makes me uneasy about this draft, because now they are "all in" with Manuel. We don't even know how much he's going to play this season, but I wouldn't expect much of a difference in W/L's over Kolb, so it's probably going to be muddling through the year either way.

I agree with the end, which is why I wish they had taken Nassib in the 4th. They have to get it right, why not increase your chances for a relatively small price?

Who do you think has the higher upside, Manuel or Nassib?

The Panthers invested a fairly high draft pick on Jimmy Clausen and came right back and took Cam Newton. If the Bills are bad enough and Manuel looks to be a bust, hopefully the organization is smart enough to grab one of the top QBs in next year's draft.

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I am extremely surprised that the Bills front office is overlooking these character issues. Try have been avoiding those types of players for years, and shipped them out if they became issues (McGahee, Lynch). Now they've abandoned that philosophy and targeted several players with character issues.The shift in philosophy is pretty extreme. Do they think they can keep these kids in check? Or are they more concerned with bringing in talent first and building chemistry and cohesiveness later?

I don't think marijuana and alcohol issues are necessarily all that bad. Lots of kids make stupid mistakes with those substances and eventually learn from them as they mature.

Unless I'm missing something, I didn't see any violent offenses.

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I am extremely surprised that the Bills front office is overlooking these character issues. Try have been avoiding those types of players for years, and shipped them out if they became issues (McGahee, Lynch). Now they've abandoned that philosophy and targeted several players with character issues.The shift in philosophy is pretty extreme. Do they think they can keep these kids in check? Or are they more concerned with bringing in talent first and building chemistry and cohesiveness later?

I don't think marijuana and alcohol issues are necessarily all that bad. Lots of kids make stupid mistakes with those substances and eventually learn from them as they mature.

Unless I'm missing something, I didn't see any violent offenses.

Rogers got into a fight outside of a bar. Someone in the thread on Da'Rick said that there were people there that said that Rogers almost stomped some security guy to death. :scared: Hopefully that's just talk because that would be a lot bigger deal and character flaw than some substance issues.

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I am extremely surprised that the Bills front office is overlooking these character issues. Try have been avoiding those types of players for years, and shipped them out if they became issues (McGahee, Lynch). Now they've abandoned that philosophy and targeted several players with character issues.

The shift in philosophy is pretty extreme. Do they think they can keep these kids in check? Or are they more concerned with bringing in talent first and building chemistry and cohesiveness later?

I don't think marijuana and alcohol issues are necessarily all that bad. Lots of kids make stupid mistakes with those substances and eventually learn from them as they mature.

Unless I'm missing something, I didn't see any violent offenses.

He was also involved in a bar fight before he even took the field at Tennessee in which a police officer got hurt. He was charged at the time with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/12778928/updated-calhouns-darick-rogers-arrested-in-knoxville-bar-fight

I haven't seen anything like that since then so lets hope he learned his lesson about that kind of stuff. The Drugs frankly concerns me more than the bar fight does. We've seen great athletes who have thrown away very promising careers with using marijuana. He says he's passed 10 tests since he was suspended at UT. Lets hope he's right about that. He's a big physical type of receiver that this corps could use.

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