The General
Footballguy
You guys will probably be the favorite in the division going into next year. Gotta get Allen a little composure though. Love Singletary, Brown, and that D.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
DropKick
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
The officiating was one sided. By rule, that play in the endzone after halftime should have been a TD or safety. Granted, it's a little insane, but that's how the rule is written. And you don't get to re-write the rule on the fly because you don't like the result. You especially don't get to call a by-the-letter-of-the-law penalty on Ford for harmless contact away from the play after a reversal like that.
But the Bills have only themselves to blame for this one. We had the game won, we blew the opportunity to put it way for good, we pissed away the lead, and we blew chances in OT.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
According to the rules, these are the ONLY ways a player can give himself up. Let me know which one he did:
“when a runner declares himself down by:
falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance.
sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. “
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is simply wrong. I know his intent was to give himself up, but by rule he did not.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I get it. This is a dumb rule written in a very poor way. If somebody wants to say "Eh, he meant to give himself up, so let's just give it to him" okay fine. But then #### off with that blindside block ####. Because that wasn't the intent of the rule either.
Last edited by a moderator:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The Bills? Yes. But I sure as heck am going to feel free to blame the players for not executing, the coaches for getting outcoached by Bill O’Brien, and yes, the refs as well. Plenty of blame to go around.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Basically everybody except for Singletary and Hauschka had some responsibility for this loss. And even those two guys deserve some criticism for not hiding Frank Gore's helmet or something to keep him off the field.
DropKick
Footballguy
Watching that game and about as neutral as you can be... it would have been a travesty to award a TD on that play. I have seen plays where they've ruled that a player gave himself up without literally taking a knee. Drop the ball intentionally, hand it to an official - his actions were consistent with giving yourself up.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
DropKick
Footballguy
What I'd be curious to see... and maybe nobody pays attention... is how often return men do that. With recent rule changes, you don't even have to field the ball in the end zone. I think they most often simply let it land.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
By rule, you can let the ball land in the end zone and it's dead. It becomes live when the receiving team touches it.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I agree 100%. The player made no effort to advance the ball and was tossing it back to the referee. The officials did the right thing.
Bills fans have a more legitimate gripe about a couple other calls IMO.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
My main issue was the Cody Ford block that was flagged. Terrible call.
Looking forward though, are we losing any players except Alexander and Gore?
Lawson is gonna want a lot. Philips is gonna want too much.
Spain should be a re sign guy. I thought he played well.
Looking forward though, are we losing any players except Alexander and Gore?
Lawson is gonna want a lot. Philips is gonna want too much.
Spain should be a re sign guy. I thought he played well.
Last edited by a moderator:
GregR
Footballguy
Just wanted to pop over and congratulate you Bills fans on the course of the team. Was a hard fought playoff game you guys played well enough to win. Haven't been able to go watch the broadcast yet and digest, but felt like your defense was really strong and the play calling especially. Did a lot that is how I think teams should attack Houston's offense.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
What was weird is that I thought Allen looked cool as a cucumber until the 4th quarter and that complete freakout lateral play with 1:20 left. He'll learn. I don't get the Allen hate. As a Bears fan I'd trade Mitch for him in a second.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Thanks Greg. Losing was a bitter pill to swallow, but at least it was to a likable team with a likable fan base.GregR said:
Good season. Sure, they could have won that game, but that's as far as they realistically would've gotten anyway. Use the loss as motivation.
Offseason goal #1 (and 2, 3, ...) is to get Allen better. My concern is that everyone is so green- they could be building something great if it clicks, but there's no "rock" there who can settle everyone down when the bullets are flying.
If I'm Buffalo, I do whatever it takes to get Allen working with the people who helped Lamar last offseason- they made huge improvements on some of the same issues Allen has. Plan B would be to do whatever it takes to bring in a guy like McCown. If he still wants to play, cool, he's a decent back-up, or if he just wants to coach/train, even better because it doesn't count against the cap.
Obviously there are other issues to fix, namely getting a legit WR and O-line help, but none of that will really matter if Allen doesn't develop. Next year isn't quite make or break for him, but it's pretty huge.
Offseason goal #1 (and 2, 3, ...) is to get Allen better. My concern is that everyone is so green- they could be building something great if it clicks, but there's no "rock" there who can settle everyone down when the bullets are flying.
If I'm Buffalo, I do whatever it takes to get Allen working with the people who helped Lamar last offseason- they made huge improvements on some of the same issues Allen has. Plan B would be to do whatever it takes to bring in a guy like McCown. If he still wants to play, cool, he's a decent back-up, or if he just wants to coach/train, even better because it doesn't count against the cap.
Obviously there are other issues to fix, namely getting a legit WR and O-line help, but none of that will really matter if Allen doesn't develop. Next year isn't quite make or break for him, but it's pretty huge.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Thanks for this. As Bills fans, we all are going to naturally spend a lot of time picking over reasons why we lost this game. What will tend to get overlooked is the super-human performance that Watson put on in the second half to win the game. Good luck in the next round -- you guys have a fun team to watch.GregR said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Cody Ford fined $28K and change for the "blind side block" last week, in which he bumped into another player number-to-number. It's like the NFL is deliberately trying to be stupid.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
He got fined more than he actually got paid for that game. That’s insanity. Doubling down on a dubious call like that is craziness. Especially when the Clowney hit not only wasn’t penalized, but wasn’t fined. The NFL clearly cares more about sticking to a narrative and backing their refs than they do actual player safety.
Oh, and the NFL also didn’t flag or fine either one of the plays depicted in this tweet.
I get that by the letter of the rule you can get a penalty out of what Ford did. It’s stupid because the rule is obviously worded in a stupid way, but I see it. But after the Texans weren’t called for a much worse example on the 2 point conversion, the 2nd half kickoff play was changed due to “common sense” despite the letter of the rules, and the clear helmet to helmet against Allen wasn’t called, this fine is just straight up antagonism and outrageous.
That that is not only considered a foul, but something worthy of a $28,000+ fine is simply insanity by the NFL. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I really hope the XFL succeeds, because I'm getting really sick of what the NFL is becoming.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
I am sure this ain’t happening, but if Houston handles KC I will be left thinking that Buffalo could have hosted the AFC championship game.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
So do you feel better or worse after seeing that game play out the way it did?The Duff Man said:
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Statorama
gangster
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Ugh. I don’t like this deal at all. I was just saying I would only take Diggs for a 2nd or less. And we gave up so much to get him.
On top of overpaying, he seems like a drama queen who has a me first mentality.
And on top of all that I could see him demanding a new contract.
I do not like this trade.
On top of overpaying, he seems like a drama queen who has a me first mentality.
And on top of all that I could see him demanding a new contract.
I do not like this trade.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Is it really overpaying though? Maybe in the lens of the Hopkins trade it looks that way, but Diggs is an elite WR. Probably the best route runner in the NFL with legit deep speed and ability to go get balls.
My first reaction is overpay as well, but they had an extra 5th and 7th round pick this year from trading Wyatt Teller and Russell Bodine. You’re telling me you wouldn’t give up a 1st, future 4th, Wyatt Teller and Russell Bodine for Diggs and a 7th? What percentage of Day 3 picks actually become worthwhile contributors? Maybe 20% tops?
And Diggs is signed for 4 more years at like $11M a year. Did you see how much Cooper just signed for? And rumor is Hopkins is getting a new deal as well. $11M/year for the next 4 years is a freaking bargain. That in itself is value.
Yeah, this receiver draft class is supposedly deep, but that’s rolling the dice on a Jefferson or Higgins to become what Diggs already is.
IMO, ultimately I think the trade is just about right. The Bills get a receiver that suddenly turns their receiving corp into one of the best in the league at a bargain contract, but give up a first and a number of Day 3 draft picks.
Last edited by a moderator:
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Report...Bills sign Mario Addison
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The Bills continue their quest to sign every single former Panther in the league. 9.5 sacks a year over the last 4 years isn’t too shabby, but dude is also turning 33 in September. A 3 year deal to a soon to be 33 year old DE hopefully is really team friendly.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
You don’t think Diggs is gonna ask for (or demand) a new contract? Wasn’t he already doing that in Minnesota?
And I agree that he’s a good route runner, but he’s not the best. I also don’t think Allen’s style of play isn’t greatly benefited by a good route runner necessarily.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
He was in the first year of his new deal last year, so no, I don’t think he was already doing that last year. I think it was more about his role in the offense. I think McDermott has earned my confidence that he can make most players happy to be in Buffalo.
Here’s a pretty good argument that he IS, in fact, the best route runner in the NFL. Check out his next tweet where he links to the methodology and Diggs’s win rates on the route tree.
And I agree that route running isn’t necessarily the most important ability for Allen, but Diggs’s ability to get open certainly is. That along with his deep speed and good job coming down with contested balls all are pluses.
Diggs has the highest contested catch rate over the last 3 years in the NFL.
Last edited by a moderator:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm kind of surprised at the mixed reaction to the Diggs trade. A late first and grab-bag of day three picks that wouldn't make our team anyway for a real #1 WR? Yes, please.
Edit: It should go without saying that I would have preferred to have fleeced Houston, but we missed out on that one.
Edit: It should go without saying that I would have preferred to have fleeced Houston, but we missed out on that one.
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
My initial thought on the deal was that the Bills gave up too much. But after digging into it a bit further, I'm a little more comfortable with the deal.
Diggs is apparently one of the best WRs in the NFL against man coverage, and one of the best WRs in the NFL in catching contested throws in coverage. Maybe his numbers don't jump right off the page at you, but I guess the "analytics" are pretty strong for him.
I don't know much about his off-the-field persona, but seems like he has a reputation for being a bit of a drama queen. That's a concern in a Bills offense that still has yet to demonstrate that they can actually execute a consistent passing game. Brown and Beasley were great acquisitions in that they both went about their business without causing a ruckus if they're not getting the ball. Brown and Beasley combined for a little over 1,800 yards receiving. I assume Allen's passing numbers will go up, but it's not like there's another 1,000 yards to go around here. Either someone's gonna get left out, or all 3 of them will likely see decreases in production. There's nothing wrong with that if the players are happy with their roles and the team is winning, but I could see some frustration if the Bills start slow.
Realistically, the value of what the Bills gave up, according to those draft picks calculators, is approximately a #18 overall pick. The Bills identified WR as a need, and likely see the writing on the wall that some of their top prospects won't be there at #22. So they essentially gave up a #18 overall with a proven, guaranteed return of Stefon Diggs. You're not getting a potential best WR in the NFL, but you're getting a very solid return, assuming he plays to the same level he's played during his time in Minnesota. It's a move that signals to me that the Bills are expecting to be very competitive in the immediate next few years, rather than crossing their fingers and hoping to hit on an absolute star WR in the draft. In all, I look at it as a pretty fair deal for both teams.
Diggs is apparently one of the best WRs in the NFL against man coverage, and one of the best WRs in the NFL in catching contested throws in coverage. Maybe his numbers don't jump right off the page at you, but I guess the "analytics" are pretty strong for him.
I don't know much about his off-the-field persona, but seems like he has a reputation for being a bit of a drama queen. That's a concern in a Bills offense that still has yet to demonstrate that they can actually execute a consistent passing game. Brown and Beasley were great acquisitions in that they both went about their business without causing a ruckus if they're not getting the ball. Brown and Beasley combined for a little over 1,800 yards receiving. I assume Allen's passing numbers will go up, but it's not like there's another 1,000 yards to go around here. Either someone's gonna get left out, or all 3 of them will likely see decreases in production. There's nothing wrong with that if the players are happy with their roles and the team is winning, but I could see some frustration if the Bills start slow.
Realistically, the value of what the Bills gave up, according to those draft picks calculators, is approximately a #18 overall pick. The Bills identified WR as a need, and likely see the writing on the wall that some of their top prospects won't be there at #22. So they essentially gave up a #18 overall with a proven, guaranteed return of Stefon Diggs. You're not getting a potential best WR in the NFL, but you're getting a very solid return, assuming he plays to the same level he's played during his time in Minnesota. It's a move that signals to me that the Bills are expecting to be very competitive in the immediate next few years, rather than crossing their fingers and hoping to hit on an absolute star WR in the draft. In all, I look at it as a pretty fair deal for both teams.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Well, so far I pretty much like the moves the Bills have made involving non-former Panthers and don’t really love the moves they’ve made for former Panthers (although the Norman deal isn’t terrible IMO).
Really wish this team would stop taking in every stray cat that shows up at their door. Every one so far has been overpaid and under delivered.
Really wish this team would stop taking in every stray cat that shows up at their door. Every one so far has been overpaid and under delivered.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Apparently there’s mutual interest to bringing in Melvin Gordon. I think he would make a nice 1b. But Singletary looked too good to take a back seat to anyone.
I would also hope it would only be a 1 or 2 year deal and around 5-7 million per.
I would also hope it would only be a 1 or 2 year deal and around 5-7 million per.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I’d be good with either Gordon or Gurley as a #2, especially if they could get one of them at that $5-7M.
If that happens, it legit puts them in a position where if Allen doesn’t take a big step forward, then I think you know it’s time to move on after this year.
And if the Bills move on, I sincerely hope that McDermott and Beane would be kept on. It’s pretty common for GMs/HCs to get one big shot at a QB and then get axed if they miss. IMO, they’ve done a good enough job building and coaching up that they deserve to stick around even if Allen doesn’t work out.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Welp, the Pegulas laying off all their arena employees and not even holding their jobs for them when this is all over is leaving a REALLY bad taste in my mouth.
After all the crappy years, crappy teams, crappy coaches, crappy GMs, crappy front offices...finally the team looks respectable. Except now the owner seems to be despicable. This may be what finally turns me off of the NFL.
After all the crappy years, crappy teams, crappy coaches, crappy GMs, crappy front offices...finally the team looks respectable. Except now the owner seems to be despicable. This may be what finally turns me off of the NFL.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
What? They are? On the surface that seems insane. Are there numbers on what it would cost them to pay said employees for the next 3 months?
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Link if you subscribe to The Athletic.
My original post isn’t really correct though. They laid off hospitality workers for their other properties. The arena workers they’re just not paying until games are officially canceled.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Diggs trade was fine imo. A late 1st is far from a sure bet, and while there are a lot of talented WRs in the draft, no one is likely to give comparable production to Stefon Diggs in year one or beyond.
I feel like they had plenty of money to make a run at Clowney instead of Mario Addison. I didn't really get that move.
I feel like they had plenty of money to make a run at Clowney instead of Mario Addison. I didn't really get that move.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Since the Bills don’t have a pick tonight, I went to YouTube to watch some Stefon Diggs highlights and my goodness did he make a ton of tough catches last year. Like a ton.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
For the Bills tomorrow night, I think they need to come away with 2 of DB/WR/RB/Edge rusher.
I just really hope that Beane doesn’t get antsy and start trading valuable assets away to move up. I think this draft is deep enough that he can afford to wait and get some value. A CB or “Big Nickel” in the 2nd or maybe an edge rusher or WR there would be great. And then maybe a WR or RB in the 3rd.
Pittman or Claypool would both be nice picks IMO. This Dugger guy could be a great hybrid fit at Big Nickel who could work in as Alexander’s replacement in some ways. There’s a number of downhill runners that would be nice fits, though I think they’d probably be thinking more 3rd or 4th round for that, but man, passing up Dobbins at 54 if he were there would be tough in my mind, even though I know they love Singletary.
I just really hope that Beane doesn’t get antsy and start trading valuable assets away to move up. I think this draft is deep enough that he can afford to wait and get some value. A CB or “Big Nickel” in the 2nd or maybe an edge rusher or WR there would be great. And then maybe a WR or RB in the 3rd.
Pittman or Claypool would both be nice picks IMO. This Dugger guy could be a great hybrid fit at Big Nickel who could work in as Alexander’s replacement in some ways. There’s a number of downhill runners that would be nice fits, though I think they’d probably be thinking more 3rd or 4th round for that, but man, passing up Dobbins at 54 if he were there would be tough in my mind, even though I know they love Singletary.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Yay. Another DL.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
DE was a sneaky need for them. Their DEs are old as crap. I’m fine with it. Can still grab solid WRs or RBs in the 3rd and 4th rounds this year.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I really like the Jets' draft. I would have been thrilled with those two players for Buffalo.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Sorry, that's a ####ty pick. He isn't very good. Hope I'm wrong.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I kinda agree on both accounts.
You already have a good primary RB. Grab another off the scrap heap for depth, and use that pick on something more important.
Again, like you said, I hope I am wrong, but I'm really not liking this draft so far.
