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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (3 Viewers)

And seriously, Brandon has to be made of Teflon or something. He gets credit for "regionalizing" the team and yet the Toronto series was an epic disaster. What else did he really do beyond that? Seems more like the popularity of the NFL in general coupled with no other competition in the area is as much responsible as anything Brandon did. Do Brandon supporters even have anything he specifically did?

And it's hilarious that he gets a pass on any football operations decisions he made. Ralph didn't just have him around as a figurehead. He had a lot more influence than people want to give him credit for on that side.
Toronto was a big financial success for the Bills - which was primary the point. Obviously it never worked out in terms of galvanizing hard core support for the team in that city, but there are other factors that weren't necessarily in Brandon's immediate control for that (poor on-field play, high ticket prices set by the Rogers group, etc.). And let's give some credit to Brandon for helping unwind the series before the terms of the deal expired.

And what football decisions was Brandon really involved in? He hired two GMs - the guys that actually makes the football decisions (not Brandon himself). While neither Nix and Whaley have been perfect, they've also significantly upgraded the talent level of the team in the last 5 years. I don't see how you can criticize him for keeping a few Wilson favorites (likely by Wilson's request) in positions that don't have any real say in football personnel. Overdorf managed the cap and negotiated the contracts - at the direction of the GM. The media relations guy has no effect on personnel. The strength and conditioning coach can be a nice asset to an organization, but I wouldn't really say that's been the lynch pin behind this team's failures for 15 years.

 
Yep. I'm with Zed.

Tim Graham said today the Bills may have lost Brandon to Oakland if it wasn't for the Pegulas. He's clearly a valuable asset imo.

 
I can't for the life of me understand why it's so hard to understand that Watkins can be great and the trade can still be bad. Who cares if he'd have better #s on the Giants or if Beckham's #s would be worse here. The point is Beckham is obviously in the same tier. When Dez Bryant and Julio Jones are in the same draft you don't trade a 1st and say "see? He's not a bust!" You take whichever is available. It's a scouting failure, period.
I don't see it this way at all. (ETA - I agree that he can be great and it can be a bad trade, but I don't see this as a bad trade)

There will always be players who surprise and perform better than their draft position. Aaron Donald doesn't get picked at #13 if they re-run the draft, and Clowney doesn't go #1. The Bills traded #8, #19, and a 4th rounder (I don't have the number) to get Sammy Watkins, an elite player who many scouts had as the #1 offensive player on the board. A surefire superstar, ready to star on day 1. And that's exactly what the Bills look to have gotten out of Watkins, an NFL-ready, explosive playmaker who has the tools to be the best player in the league at his position.

Who do the Bills take at #8? Maybe Odell Beckham. But maybe they take Justin Gilbert or Eric Ebron. Who knows. Here's a list of the past few picks at #19 overall...Ja'Wuan James (Dolphins OT - 2014), Justin Pugh (Giants OT - 2013), Shea McClellin (Bears DE - 2012), Prince Amukamara (Giants CB - 2011), Sean Witherspoon (Falcons LB - 2010). Maybe you hit on a player at #19, but maybe you don't.

For me personally, would I rather have Beckham and this year's #19 and 4th? Probably. But would I rather have Watkins instead of Ebron/Gilbert, #19, and the 4th? Absolutely. The bottom line, in my mind, is that they believed in a guy and they went out and got him, and he looks to be a superstar. If I'm gonna fault the front office for anything, it's wasting a first on EJ, not trading up to get Sammy.
Everyone I heard/read loved Donald but at least nobody traded up for another DLman.

Obviously there are very few players who can say nobody picked below them is as good - and therefore it's not fair to auto-criticize the team when that happens.

That's not what anyone is doing here. Beckham - while maybe not considered the slam dunk Sammy was - was not some under the radar project like a Jason Peters. He was good enough to not be considered a reach by anyone I'm aware of at #12. He needed to be a big part of the cost benefit analysis in a trade-up for a WR.

And as long as we're going out of our way not to use 20/20 hindsight on Beckham, it's only fair to also point out how easily #19 could be #12. Because having Sammy was a factor in a few coinflip Ws (not to mention signing Orton in the first place) and after some unusual good fortune in white knuckler games and after shoving all those chips in the middle we still topped out at 9 wins. Great.

 
Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 9s9 seconds ago

League source: Marrone asked Pegulas for an extension and was told no. He then asked for extensions for his assistants and was told no.

chatter on twitter says the Jets are interested in him. :popcorn:
What do the Bills fans think? Do you like that he opted out or do you like Marrone?

I thought he did wonders for the franchise. Seems crazy to me the Pagulas wouldnt extend him.

 
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Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 9s9 seconds ago

League source: Marrone asked Pegulas for an extension and was told no. He then asked for extensions for his assistants and was told no.

chatter on twitter says the Jets are interested in him. :popcorn:
Are you a Bills fan? Do you like that he opted out or do you like Marrone?
depends on who they get.

I'd like to see the defensive staff remain in place, but wouldn't mind seeing a new direction on offense.

 
Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 9s9 seconds ago

League source: Marrone asked Pegulas for an extension and was told no. He then asked for extensions for his assistants and was told no.

chatter on twitter says the Jets are interested in him. :popcorn:
Are you a Bills fan? Do you like that he opted out or do you like Marrone?
depends on who they get.

I'd like to see the defensive staff remain in place, but wouldn't mind seeing a new direction on offense.
Shwartz actually helped the defense. He is not a good head coach but he can get a D to do good things when thats his main focus. Would Rex go there just so he could play the Jets twice a year?

 
Mort and Schefter both reporting that Marrone gets to keep his $4MM salary for 2015 regardless of whether he signs anywhere else. That seems like a pretty bad contract for the Bills to have given him, no?

 
Bill Polian rumor might be gaining steam now.

Also, Frank Reich getting discussed as a replacement head coach.

90s era Bills!

 
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Mort and Schefter both reporting that Marrone gets to keep his $4MM salary for 2015 regardless of whether he signs anywhere else. That seems like a pretty bad contract for the Bills to have given him, no?
No wonder he opted out then, seems like a no brainer after being told no to an extension if that is what he wanted. When you have the leverage in negotiations, you use it.

 
:lmao:

Luke Russert ‏@LukeRussert 3m3 minutes ago

Thx for punting Doug! So long gutless, uninspired predictable play calling! Please land in NJ so we can smoke u 2x a yr! #BillsMafia
And thanks for giving the Bills the best record in years, since 2004 to be exact and only the second winning season since 1999.
IMO, he had little to do with that. The talent has been vastly upgraded. They had a top 3 defense this year that he had nothing to do with. The offensive talent has improved and yet the took huge step backwards. And his in-game management was a joke.

 
:lmao:

Luke Russert ‏@LukeRussert 3m3 minutes ago

Thx for punting Doug! So long gutless, uninspired predictable play calling! Please land in NJ so we can smoke u 2x a yr! #BillsMafia
And thanks for giving the Bills the best record in years, since 2004 to be exact and only the second winning season since 1999.
IMO, he had little to do with that. The talent has been vastly upgraded. They had a top 3 defense this year that he had nothing to do with. The offensive talent has improved and yet the took huge step backwards. And his in-game management was a joke.
Let's also remember that Marrone was supposedly a "offense" guy when he was hired. And our offense was atrocious last year.

 
Are fans really bashing a coach and not giving him any credit for the turn around because he decided to opt out?
I wasn't giving him much credit for the turnaround before he opted out. You can go back and look at my prior posts in this thread if you want. I've been consistent all year in wanting Marrone replaced.

 
Are fans really bashing a coach and not giving him any credit for the turn around because he decided to opt out?
it doesn't sound like he was very well liked, and the two areas he was supposed to be an expert on (offensive line, offense) were two of main weak spots on the team.

they may have won 9 games despite him rather than because of him. I don't think that's true, but that does seem to be a commonly held belief among many Bills fans.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He seemed to get the team up to play every week, but his game-day management seemed too passive at times and I wasn't a fan of him stubbornly sticking with players/concepts that clearly weren't working.

 
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:lmao:

Luke Russert ‏@LukeRussert 3m3 minutes ago

Thx for punting Doug! So long gutless, uninspired predictable play calling! Please land in NJ so we can smoke u 2x a yr! #BillsMafia
And thanks for giving the Bills the best record in years, since 2004 to be exact and only the second winning season since 1999.
IMO, he had little to do with that. The talent has been vastly upgraded. They had a top 3 defense this year that he had nothing to do with. The offensive talent has improved and yet the took huge step backwards. And his in-game management was a joke.
Let's also remember that Marrone was supposedly a "offense" guy when he was hired. And our offense was atrocious last year.
Seems like an offense cant thrive with Manuel and even Orton even though he did ok. Those QBs scare no one.

 
Seems like an offense cant thrive with Manuel and even Orton even though he did ok. Those QBs scare no one.
he was part of the group that pushed to draft Manuel...and then he stuck with Orton even when it was clear that he was regressing. not sure what to make of that but it seems a good coach would have figured out some way to better utilize the talent he was given.

defense carried this team all year.

 
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:lmao:

Luke Russert ‏@LukeRussert 3m3 minutes ago

Thx for punting Doug! So long gutless, uninspired predictable play calling! Please land in NJ so we can smoke u 2x a yr! #BillsMafia
And thanks for giving the Bills the best record in years, since 2004 to be exact and only the second winning season since 1999.
IMO, he had little to do with that. The talent has been vastly upgraded. They had a top 3 defense this year that he had nothing to do with. The offensive talent has improved and yet the took huge step backwards. And his in-game management was a joke.
Exactly. With the talent this team has, 9-7 is not a huge success. Especially since it could have easily been 8-8 if the Pats had anything to play for.

Good riddance Marrone!

Hopefully they can find a way to keep the defensive coaches.

Also, I'd love to see what Rex Ryan could do with this team.

 
Also, I'd love to see what Rex Ryan could do with this team.
Why? The defense is already great. With Rex, the offense would be terrible, and that young talent they have would go to waste. Rex is cut out to be a DC, not a head coach.

 
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Bill Polian definitely seems like he's coming aboard at some point. I'd rather keep Whaley as GM instead of Bill bringing in his son though.

 
Also, I'd love to see what Rex Ryan could do with this team.
Why? The defense is already great. With Rex, the offense would be terrible, and that young talent they have would go to waste. Rex is cut out to be a DC, not a head coach.
I think he's a good figure-head, which is a huge part of a HC's job. Rex with a good OC, and Schwartz, etc. on defense, and I'd be happy.

I'd be happy giving Reich his first shot, too. I think he'll be a good HC in the future.

 
Bill Polian definitely seems like he's coming aboard at some point. I'd rather keep Whaley as GM instead of Bill bringing in his son though.
Agreed. I can't say I'm super-familiar with Chris Polian's body of work, but Indianapolis seemed to regress while he was there, and Jacksonville sort of speaks for itself.

 
You guys keep your cold, frost bitten hands off of Reich. He loves the weather here, so please don't even bother calling.

Please?

 
You guys keep your cold, frost bitten hands off of Reich. He loves the weather here, so please don't even bother calling.

Please?
time to get the band back together.

I'd like to see Frank brought in to turn the offense around and develop whoever winds up being the long-term QB.

if he could keep the defensive staff intact, that would be pretty nice. Schwartz is still under contract and it doesn't sound like he's getting any interest for the open HC jobs. his ego might be hurt if he doesn't get the job though.

 
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Also, I'd love to see what Rex Ryan could do with this team.
Why? The defense is already great. With Rex, the offense would be terrible, and that young talent they have would go to waste. Rex is cut out to be a DC, not a head coach.
I think he's a good figure-head, which is a huge part of a HC's job. Rex with a good OC, and Schwartz, etc. on defense, and I'd be happy.
Eh, Rex Ryan's inability to get his team up on a regular basis would bother me. The Jets could look so good some weeks, and then so awful other weeks, and not just this year. Hell, the 2nd year they got to the AFCCG, after winning in New England, they came out completely flat against the Steelers in the AFCCG.

 
I would have been okay with him staying, but I'm happy to take our chances at bringing in somebody better.
Pretty much exactly where I'm at. There was a lot I didn't like, but I have trouble #####ing when they went 9-7. That said, I think there are far better options available, and I hope the Bills land one.
yep

his personality just seemed a bit too similar to the Mularkey/Gregg Williams types the Bills failed with before. maybe he'll grow into being a much better leader at his next stop, but he wasn't there yet and I'm not sure I can see him being a "great" NFL head coach. he obviously wasn't a flop or a failure, but losing him might not be so bad if they can find the right guy to replace him.

 
Am I the only one who isn't sold on Reich? It seems like he's been in great spots where he didn't need to really deal with adversity...QB coach for Indy with Manning, QB/OC for another good offense in San Diego. He's only got 6 years of experience total. I'd much rather they take a shot on a guy like Art Briles or Gary Patterson or even maybe Gus Malzahn, though I have no idea if any of those guys are available.

 
You guys keep your cold, frost bitten hands off of Reich. He loves the weather here, so please don't even bother calling.

Please?
time to get the band back together.I'd like to see Frank brought in to turn the offense around and develop whoever winds up being the long-term QB.

if he could keep the defensive staff intact, that would be pretty nice. Schwartz is still under contract and it doesn't sound like he's getting any interest for the open HC jobs. his ego might be hurt if he doesn't get the job though.
Reich had the offense humming until the OL and RB corps were absolutely decimated by injury - street FA's starting at C, G, and RB the last few weeks. Would be quite a change for him though - moving from an offense where the QB makes all the decisions to an offense without a QB but heavy on playmakers. Bills maybe take Petty in the 2nd and let Reich develop him?

 
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Am I the only one who isn't sold on Reich? It seems like he's been in great spots where he didn't need to really deal with adversity...QB coach for Indy with Manning, QB/OC for another good offense in San Diego. He's only got 6 years of experience total. I'd much rather they take a shot on a guy like Art Briles or Gary Patterson or even maybe Gus Malzahn, though I have no idea if any of those guys are available.
one year as an NFL coordinator isn't a big body of work for him. I'm not sure I'm sold either apart from the nostalgia factor.

I think it will be good to let Whaley hire a coach he can work with though (assuming Whaley is in the long-term plans for the Pegulas).

 
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Jets fan here. What were some of the things you guys liked or didn't like about Marrone?
For me personally, it was atrocious game-day decision-making. For example, punting on fourth and short around midfield while trailing late in the game. Or punting on reasonable fourth-down situations when just slightly out of field gold range. He did both on a regular basis. In general, his philosophy seemed to be something out of the NFL jurassic era.

Lots of us also constantly criticized his hand-picked OC for poor play-calling. In fairness to that guy (Paul Hackett) though, it's hard to say as a fan how much of that was the plays being bad versus the QB who was supposed to execute the play performing poorly. Possibly some of each.

Edit: For example, how come NYG can target Beckham 79 times a game but we only throw to Watkins 5 times? Maybe you pin some of that on Orton, but it's a huge quality control failure regardless.

 
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whatever you do keep Schwartz at DC, not HC
don't think that's going to be an issue.
On a related note regarding Marrone and Schwartz, I do think it's fair to note that our team is a lot more physical now than it was a couple of years ago. That could be Marrone's influence, and if so it will be missed. But given his track record, I think that's more likely coming from Schwartz.

 
Also, I'd love to see what Rex Ryan could do with this team.
Why? The defense is already great. With Rex, the offense would be terrible, and that young talent they have would go to waste. Rex is cut out to be a DC, not a head coach.
I think he's a good figure-head, which is a huge part of a HC's job. Rex with a good OC, and Schwartz, etc. on defense, and I'd be happy.
Eh, Rex Ryan's inability to get his team up on a regular basis would bother me. The Jets could look so good some weeks, and then so awful other weeks, and not just this year. Hell, the 2nd year they got to the AFCCG, after winning in New England, they came out completely flat against the Steelers in the AFCCG.
Divisional Round playoffs are to the Jets what the Super Bowl is to most other teams. The Jets proved all they had to prove vs NE. The AFC title game at Pittsburgh? Pffft. What is that?

Darrelle Revis actually said the team came out flat. For a playoff game? That is amazing.

 
Jets fan here. What were some of the things you guys liked or didn't like about Marrone?
Disliked:

- old-school conservative decision-maker; frequently punts on 4th and short in opposing territory

- no real concept of "analytics"

- kinda comes off like a blowhard #######

- offense (his specialty), namely offensive line (his specialty) failed miserably, including abject failure to utilize CJ Spiller - and to an extent, Sammy Watkins. Offense took a huge step back when he came in and Chan Gailey left.

- openly feuded with upper management and came off like a petulant child at times, IMO (see the Orton signing debacle). I get the sense that he and GM Doug Whaley hate each other.

Liked:

- first winning season in years

- players didn't give up on him especially when the heat was on earlier in the season

- wasn't afraid to pull the trigger to put Orton in and bench EJ when it was clear EJ wasn't progressing quickly enough

- seemed to handle the pressure of head coaching pretty well, kept a level-head in the media when there was talk of him being fired regularly

 
Am I the only one who isn't sold on Reich? It seems like he's been in great spots where he didn't need to really deal with adversity...QB coach for Indy with Manning, QB/OC for another good offense in San Diego. He's only got 6 years of experience total. I'd much rather they take a shot on a guy like Art Briles or Gary Patterson or even maybe Gus Malzahn, though I have no idea if any of those guys are available.
That is my concern as well. What type of staff could he hire? Other candidates are going to have more stops and years on their resumes and presumably more contacts and options for assembling a staff.
 

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