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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Reich and Rex also scheduled to interview.
I'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to have a significantly stronger staff this time next month. If you're looking for an impending trainwreck, it's in the Meadowlands.
I'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to have a significantly stronger staff this time next month. If you're looking for an impending trainwreck, it's in the Meadowlands.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
If true, every single Bills fan will regret everything they said about Marrone. Schwartz? Life is over for Bills fan if that happens.
Hopefully Schwartz would learn from mistakes he made in Detroit, but I'd be surprised if he's the pick.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I'd be surprised as well, but they might be in a tough spot. He could bolt if he doesn't get the job, and he done great things for their defense. Wouldn't be my first choice, but not my last either.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Well, no offense, but I'm not sure how much you really know about the Sabres. The Sabres have been playing in the same arena since 1996 (you may be referring to the new locker room that he installed shortly after purchasing the team?). They certainly did struggle off the bat during Pegula's ownership, and bottomed-out (some would say intentionally) last season. They have a relatively new GM whom many believe to be a good one for the future, and by all accounts have far and away the best youth system in the NHL today, including last year's #2 overall pick Sam Reinhart. Rebuilding isn't easy, but they appear to be doing it the right way. They are setting themselves up to be a perennial NHL power in 2-3 years.
Maybe it doesn't work out, but I don't think it's fair to look at the past two seasons' results and determine that Pegula is a crap owner across the board. He's not some absentee owner.....Pegula inherited a middling team that had failed to live up to their expectations for a number of years after losing Briere and Drury. It took time to dismantle and rebuild, clean house and bring in hopefully the right people.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Was just listening to WGR and speculation is that the Bills aren't even considering any college coaches. Nothing confirmed, but no one seems to have heard anything about any college guys. Shame.
He's under contract.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Best thing I've heard so far is that the Bills have put Whaley in charge of finding the new HC. Brandon has an advisory role and the Pegulas have input as well of course.
But I think putting Whaley in charge and making him The Guy after the Polian debacle is the right move. Stop undermining Whaley and either giv him full authority or get rid of him completely.
Also enjoying the reports that Charlie Casserly is pushing Marrone on Woody Johnson despite not even selecting a GM yet. I have never been impressed with Casserly so his obsession with Marrone is even more amusing. And if the Jets decide on a HC before a GM again, that would be crazy.
But I think putting Whaley in charge and making him The Guy after the Polian debacle is the right move. Stop undermining Whaley and either giv him full authority or get rid of him completely.
Also enjoying the reports that Charlie Casserly is pushing Marrone on Woody Johnson despite not even selecting a GM yet. I have never been impressed with Casserly so his obsession with Marrone is even more amusing. And if the Jets decide on a HC before a GM again, that would be crazy.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I like what Schwartz did and he's obviously still under contract, but I'll be honest, with the talent they have, they'd have to have a pretty incompetent DC to not be pretty good regardless.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The only ways he can leave are if Buffalo fires him or he is offered and accepts another team's head coaching job. Or quits and goes to college I guess.
Reports are Bills will interview him for the position. I don't think anyone seriously believes he will be offered the position.
Or he could "retire", or they could agree to release him from his contract (would you really want to force the guy to stay and work for you if he wants out?), or....
He's a heck of a DC, hopefully they can keep him around.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think the odds of him ever coaching again are pretty much zero, but if there was ever a chance at all of him coming back, this would be it for Cowher, right?
Connections to the Pegulas, worked with Whaley before, blue collar guy that would fit Buffalo perfectly (and would fit him), a tremendous defense, and a huge wallet in the owners' hands. I mean, that's total dream scenario, but if there was ever a match for Bill Cowher, this would have to be it I would think.
But I think he enjoys being an analyst and not having the grind of being a coach anymore. So I don't think it's reality. But what is nice is that with the checkbook and reputation of the Pegulas, it's no longer laughable just because of ownership.
Connections to the Pegulas, worked with Whaley before, blue collar guy that would fit Buffalo perfectly (and would fit him), a tremendous defense, and a huge wallet in the owners' hands. I mean, that's total dream scenario, but if there was ever a match for Bill Cowher, this would have to be it I would think.
But I think he enjoys being an analyst and not having the grind of being a coach anymore. So I don't think it's reality. But what is nice is that with the checkbook and reputation of the Pegulas, it's no longer laughable just because of ownership.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Honestly, as long as the next coach wants him, I don't know why he would want to leave. There isn't a more talented defense in the NFL. And he and the players seem to genuinely like each other. Unless he really hates the coach they hire, I can't see him forcing his way out.
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Yeah, I can't imagine that being good for his career, reputation, or bank account.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Sounds like Chip Kelly may be available via trade...
Resign Spiller and bring in Kelly...
Resign Spiller and bring in Kelly...
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I can't imagine it would be good for the Bills reputation to force a disgruntled employee to stay on board either.
I have to assume this is just wishful thinking by fans because contracts are ripped up/altered all the time. It's still a big "if", but if he's passed up for the job and is upset about it, especially if it's for some unproven guy, I think it's more likely than not that he'd be gone. It isn't in anyone's best interests to keep a guy around who doesn't want to be there.
As for the money, he's still being paid by Detroit- he essentially worked for free last year (and next).
I have to assume this is just wishful thinking by fans because contracts are ripped up/altered all the time. It's still a big "if", but if he's passed up for the job and is upset about it, especially if it's for some unproven guy, I think it's more likely than not that he'd be gone. It isn't in anyone's best interests to keep a guy around who doesn't want to be there.
As for the money, he's still being paid by Detroit- he essentially worked for free last year (and next).
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
If nobody else offers Schwartz a HC job, why would he leave Buffalo? Because he is bitter at not being given the Buffalo HC job? That would be incredibly foolish if that was the case. His best case for being given another HC shot is to excel as a DC. And Buffalo is one of the top 2-3 places in the league to do that. If his goal is to be a HC again, leaving Buffalo for anything besides a HCing job would be a step in the wrong direction. And he surely knows that.
OC Zed
Footballguy
I think Marrone will do exceedingly well with the Jets... assuming, of course, he's on the same page as the GM.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Tim Graham reporting that on way out, one of the "power jockeys" in front office spoke poorly of Polian to Marrone. Marrone told Polian and Polian told Pegulas yesterday.
Gotta be either Overdorf or Brandon. My guess is Overdorf. Hope Pegula cleans house. Sounds like it wasn't Whaley though if Pegula put him in charge of coach search today.
Gotta be either Overdorf or Brandon. My guess is Overdorf. Hope Pegula cleans house. Sounds like it wasn't Whaley though if Pegula put him in charge of coach search today.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
That's another big "if", but people do (what you consider to be) foolish things all of the time. I'm guessing that he feels that he has already has excelled as a DC (I certainly feel that way).
Buffalo appears to be in complete disarray right now- I know you think there aren't many better options out there, but many would disagree. All I know is that if I'm in his shoes, and they pass me up for some unknown candidate, it's going to make me that much less likely to stick around and deal with the circus.
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Office politics can get nasty when people want to protect their little kingdoms.
EDIT:
Also, about Schwartz....
I hope they're interviewing as a courtesy only. Feed his ego a bit, hire someone else as HC, give Schwartz a bump in pay and move onward to draft prep.
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The Duff Man
Footballguy
This is what comes from absentee ownership. People have been free to do what they want. The last week has accelerated the cleaning up process which makes it a great week!
The worst case scenario was no change because of the winning record....leading to a season wasted before this nonsense is sorted out.
The worst case scenario was no change because of the winning record....leading to a season wasted before this nonsense is sorted out.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Wow. John Clayton is reporting that Polian would have gotten rid of Whaley and brought in AJ Smith as his GM.
SO glad Polian didn't work out. That would have been awful.
SO glad Polian didn't work out. That would have been awful.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I don't get all the concern about Schwartz. If he's not getting any interviews from other teams, why would he be pissed if he doesn't get our open job? And why would he resign just to sit on his couch at home?
Everybody thought Petine would be hard to replace. Turns out having dominant players makes a bigger difference than the identity of the coordinator, not that Petine and Schwartz didn't do good jobs.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Seriously? Marrone was apparently ticked off at being criticized in the Buffalo media. How do you think he's likely to fare in NYC?
I think Marrone will do exceedingly well with the Jets... assuming, of course, he's on the same page as the GM.
But I think the real question is whether the NFL is ready for a Doug Marrone -- Geno Smith pairing. Will scoreboard operators be able to keep up?
OC Zed
Footballguy
Assistants jump ship with new coaching hires all the time. Schwartz would get another DC within 3 days if he left Buffalo.
What if the guy they hire isn't getting any other interviews either? He's making ~$6mil whether he works for the Bills next year or sits on his couch at home. The way things are looking now, the couch is looking mighty comfortable.
I don't get all the concern about Schwartz. If he's not getting any interviews from other teams, why would he be pissed if he doesn't get our open job? And why would he resign just to sit on his couch at home?
Everybody thought Petine would be hard to replace. Turns out having dominant players makes a bigger difference than the identity of the coordinator, not that Petine and Schwartz didn't do good jobs.
The Bills got lucky with the Schwartz situation- he was available at the right time, and money wasn't an issue since he was getting paid by Detroit either way.
I'm not saying do whatever it takes to keep him, but I think he's severely undervalued by some on here. He's one of the best DC's in the game IMO, losing him would be a bigger blow than Orton, Marrone, Polian, etc.
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OC Zed
Footballguy
Because he may not see eye-to-eye with the new head coach (or vice versa)... whether it be personality or philosophy.
Or it just might be plain ego. This also happens a lot (look at Ed Orgeron last year at USC).
OC Zed
Footballguy
OC Zed
Footballguy
The local media was absurd this past season given how well the team was playing and how poorly they have played in the last 15 years. Given those parameters, yes, I can understand Marrone being disillusioned with the local environment.Seriously? Marrone was apparently ticked off at being criticized in the Buffalo media. How do you think he's likely to fare in NYC?
I think Marrone will do exceedingly well with the Jets... assuming, of course, he's on the same page as the GM.
But I think the real question is whether the NFL is ready for a Doug Marrone -- Geno Smith pairing. Will scoreboard operators be able to keep up?
Morevover, Marrone is a New Yorker and understands that the local media there comes with that territory (people don't - and shouldn't - expect it in Buffalo). And I can guarantee you that the NYC media would have been better to Marrone with a 9-7 Jets record than the Western NY media was. His surliness will not sour people there... if he's putting up winning seasons with a bad QB, he'll be all the more beloved for being a grouch (see Bill Parcels).
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That's not allowed is it? Him quitting for the same job elsewhere?Did you follow the conversation we were having? I was speaking specifically about him just quitting.
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He would likely need permission (unless it was worked into his contract), but they usually grant that permission. Again, it isn't good for anyone to force a guy to work for you if he doesn't want to.
my thoughts on Schwartz:
I would have been ok with keeping Marrone around as I felt like that gave the team the best chance to keep the defensive staff intact and I didn't want to see them go through another offseason of changing the coach, systems, etc. Even though they are very talented, I don't think you can just plug and play and expect them to maintain their high level of play. Schwartz is a proven commodity as a coordinator and there's no way to know if his replacement would be as good. I'd prefer not to break up the unit that was primarily responsible for the team's success last year. To me, that's what they should build around going forward.
Now that Marrone is gone, I could certainly see a scenario where they bring in an unknown/unproven head coach like Frank Reich or whoever, and maybe Schwartz gets a bruised ego at being passed over for the job. But, he didn't have a relationship with Marrone prior to being hired a year ago and I'm not sure he's fully rehabbed his image after the way things ended in Detroit. Since he's under contract, I think there's a better chance he sticks around. Maybe Whaley and Pegulas, etc. work something out with whoever they bring on board as HC and make it clear that they'd like to keep Schwartz in place to run the defense. Perhaps they offer him a raise, an extension, or more authority/security somehow. If it's an offensive guy like Reich or Gase, it would seem pretty smart for them to want an experienced guy like Schwartz on the staff to run the defense and help them adjust to the roles and responsibilities of a head coach. That's assuming that Schwartz would be open to something like that, but I've seen/heard no indication that he wouldn't be.
I could see a scenario where he goes through the interview process and feels upset if he's not given a serious shot at the job, so maybe he forces his way out somehow. If the front office is as dysfunctional as it's starting to look, then maybe that's not as unlikely as I thought. Either way, I'm hoping he sticks around as the coordinator and am cautiously optimistic that will happen as of now.
I would have been ok with keeping Marrone around as I felt like that gave the team the best chance to keep the defensive staff intact and I didn't want to see them go through another offseason of changing the coach, systems, etc. Even though they are very talented, I don't think you can just plug and play and expect them to maintain their high level of play. Schwartz is a proven commodity as a coordinator and there's no way to know if his replacement would be as good. I'd prefer not to break up the unit that was primarily responsible for the team's success last year. To me, that's what they should build around going forward.
Now that Marrone is gone, I could certainly see a scenario where they bring in an unknown/unproven head coach like Frank Reich or whoever, and maybe Schwartz gets a bruised ego at being passed over for the job. But, he didn't have a relationship with Marrone prior to being hired a year ago and I'm not sure he's fully rehabbed his image after the way things ended in Detroit. Since he's under contract, I think there's a better chance he sticks around. Maybe Whaley and Pegulas, etc. work something out with whoever they bring on board as HC and make it clear that they'd like to keep Schwartz in place to run the defense. Perhaps they offer him a raise, an extension, or more authority/security somehow. If it's an offensive guy like Reich or Gase, it would seem pretty smart for them to want an experienced guy like Schwartz on the staff to run the defense and help them adjust to the roles and responsibilities of a head coach. That's assuming that Schwartz would be open to something like that, but I've seen/heard no indication that he wouldn't be.
I could see a scenario where he goes through the interview process and feels upset if he's not given a serious shot at the job, so maybe he forces his way out somehow. If the front office is as dysfunctional as it's starting to look, then maybe that's not as unlikely as I thought. Either way, I'm hoping he sticks around as the coordinator and am cautiously optimistic that will happen as of now.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
There was a whole lot of talk in here recently about how Brandon is just a business guy with no influence on the football side. And yet, per multiple reports now, Brandon will be sitting in on the head coach interviews. So I think the talk of Brandon only being on the business side are off base.
yes, but I still believe that won't help his reputation if he forces his way out of Buffalo while under contract to take another coordinator job elsewhere. Especially if the only reason he does it is because he feels the team passed him over for the HC job.
he's the Team President. This doesn't seem that unusual to me when a team is hiring a new HC.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
People keep throwing out the 9-7 record as some kind of positive and it is garbage.The local media was absurd this past season given how well the team was playing and how poorly they have played in the last 15 years. Given those parameters, yes, I can understand Marrone being disillusioned with the local environment.Seriously? Marrone was apparently ticked off at being criticized in the Buffalo media. How do you think he's likely to fare in NYC?
I think Marrone will do exceedingly well with the Jets... assuming, of course, he's on the same page as the GM.
But I think the real question is whether the NFL is ready for a Doug Marrone -- Geno Smith pairing. Will scoreboard operators be able to keep up?
Morevover, Marrone is a New Yorker and understands that the local media there comes with that territory (people don't - and shouldn't - expect it in Buffalo). And I can guarantee you that the NYC media would have been better to Marrone with a 9-7 Jets record than the Western NY media was. His surliness will not sour people there... if he's putting up winning seasons with a bad QB, he'll be all the more beloved for being a grouch (see Bill Parcels).
The Marrone haters think he took a 10 or 11 win team and DROPPED it to a 9 win team with a long list of incompetencies that have been well documented here.
The media believes this also.
So the fact that it is the best record in a decade, or that it was a three win improvement is completely irrelevant to these people.
Now if you actually think he coached UP a 7 or 8 win team I am not sure what to tell you. He most certainly did not do that on the offensive side of the ball.
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Adam Schefter ✔ @AdamSchefter Follow
Bills have requested HC interviews with Seahawks OC Darrell Bevell, Broncos OC Adam Gase, Patriots OC Josh McDaniels, Seahawks DC Dan Quinn.
Looks like these 4 plus Reich and Rex Ryan are the initial list.
Bills have requested HC interviews with Seahawks OC Darrell Bevell, Broncos OC Adam Gase, Patriots OC Josh McDaniels, Seahawks DC Dan Quinn.
Looks like these 4 plus Reich and Rex Ryan are the initial list.
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