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Yenrub

Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina

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11 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

He has played well the second half of this season.  Not nearly well enough to be worth the number one, number one however. 

No player in history benefited more from one unblocked play then Clowney. 

You've called him a bum and nothing but a huge bust from day one.  The guy had a serious knee injury which didn't let him on the field much in his first year and into his second.  He made the Pro Bowl in his 3rd season.  Can you at least admit he wasn't the bust you predicted him to be?  

"Not nearly well enough to be worth the first pick..."  He's had one full season on the field as a pro.  You make it sound like his career is over and we are to judge him on what he's done (as if he has nothing else more to do in the NFL) against some sort of criteria of being the #1 pick.  The Texans are the #1 defense and without JJ Watt on the field.  Clowney is a key part of that defense whether you want to acknowledge it or not.  I'm sure the Texans are happy with their selection.  If Clowney and Watt can be healthy and on the field together rushing the passer from both sides... good grief.  

As for the play against Michigan, do you think he became the #1 pick because of that one play?  You make it sound like that play vaulted him to the top of the draft.  I watched the Michigan bowl game and it was actually the play prior to that hit that motivated Clowney.  

USC got a horrible  call on 4th down when Michigan tried a fake punt in the 4th quarter.  The runner was clearly stopped short but the ref gave Michigan the first down.  The defense was livid and Clowney over turned the bad call on the very next play.  He shouldn't have even been on the field.  And it's not his fault Michigan's tackle and fullback didn't try to block him.  But he was going to disrupt that play in any case.  

If you watched the Oakland game yesterday, you saw how Oakland decided early on to double team him.  He was killing the left tackle.  Bringing in an extra blocker (sometimes it was another tackle, other times a fullback) causes the offense to have one less receiver in the play.  It also helps enable the other side pass rush.  Which Whitney Mercilus continuously obliged.  Bottom line is Clowney is a force. He impacts plays whether he makes the tackle or not.  

He did it all through college as well.  Teams ran away from his side and double teamed him much of the time on pass plays.  That in itself affects the game.  

Now, the one thing that I know that Clowney does is he occasionally takes plays off when he's tired.  He did in college too.  Instead of a bull rush, he'll stand up and try to block the pass or just go through the motions.  

But that does not make him a bust.  Pro Bowl selections do not make players a bust.  

JaMarcus Russell (First pick in the 2007 draft) was a bust.  Tony Mandarich (2nd pick) was a bust.  Tim Couch (First overall pick) was a bust.  Akili Smith was a bust.  Heath Shuler was a bust.  Ryan Leaf was perhaps the biggest bust in NFL history.  

The only thing that will stop Clowney from being a good to great player in the NFL is injury.  Can we at least wait a few years down the road to put labels on his career?  

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1 hour ago, Jayrok said:

You've called him a bum and nothing but a huge bust from day one.  The guy had a serious knee injury which didn't let him on the field much in his first year and into his second.  He made the Pro Bowl in his 3rd season.  Can you at least admit he wasn't the bust you predicted him to be?  

"Not nearly well enough to be worth the first pick..."  He's had one full season on the field as a pro.  You make it sound like his career is over and we are to judge him on what he's done (as if he has nothing else more to do in the NFL) against some sort of criteria of being the #1 pick.  The Texans are the #1 defense and without JJ Watt on the field.  Clowney is a key part of that defense whether you want to acknowledge it or not.  I'm sure the Texans are happy with their selection.  If Clowney and Watt can be healthy and on the field together rushing the passer from both sides... good grief.  

As for the play against Michigan, do you think he became the #1 pick because of that one play?  You make it sound like that play vaulted him to the top of the draft.  I watched the Michigan bowl game and it was actually the play prior to that hit that motivated Clowney.  

USC got a horrible  call on 4th down when Michigan tried a fake punt in the 4th quarter.  The runner was clearly stopped short but the ref gave Michigan the first down.  The defense was livid and Clowney over turned the bad call on the very next play.  He shouldn't have even been on the field.  And it's not his fault Michigan's tackle and fullback didn't try to block him.  But he was going to disrupt that play in any case.  

If you watched the Oakland game yesterday, you saw how Oakland decided early on to double team him.  He was killing the left tackle.  Bringing in an extra blocker (sometimes it was another tackle, other times a fullback) causes the offense to have one less receiver in the play.  It also helps enable the other side pass rush.  Which Whitney Mercilus continuously obliged.  Bottom line is Clowney is a force. He impacts plays whether he makes the tackle or not.  

He did it all through college as well.  Teams ran away from his side and double teamed him much of the time on pass plays.  That in itself affects the game.  

Now, the one thing that I know that Clowney does is he occasionally takes plays off when he's tired.  He did in college too.  Instead of a bull rush, he'll stand up and try to block the pass or just go through the motions.  

But that does not make him a bust.  Pro Bowl selections do not make players a bust.  

JaMarcus Russell (First pick in the 2007 draft) was a bust.  Tony Mandarich (2nd pick) was a bust.  Tim Couch (First overall pick) was a bust.  Akili Smith was a bust.  Heath Shuler was a bust.  Ryan Leaf was perhaps the biggest bust in NFL history.  

The only thing that will stop Clowney from being a good to great player in the NFL is injury.  Can we at least wait a few years down the road to put labels on his career?  

As a number one number one, yes he is still a bust. If he does this for 3 to 5 years and more then I will absolutely say that I was wrong. 

Yes, I believe undoubtedly  that that one highlight play against Michigan vaulted him to the very top of the draft class.  Very few people had even heard of the guy and then all of a sudden he was "The greatest football player in the galaxy".  That's not hyperbole, that's  actually what happened. 

Pro bowl selections don't mean anything to me nor should they to you.

 I can absolutely change my mind and admit when I'm wrong.  Up until the midway point of this season I stand by my assertion that he was a complete and utter bust to that point.  

Hey, I honestly hope the guy turns it around and has 20 sacks every single year, that would be extremely fun to watch.  I would jump at the chance to say I was wrong. Right now I was right in the beginning and it's trending to be that I was wrong. Time will tell.

 

 

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He was injured, and even had microfracture surgery.

Once healthy, he's been a monster, and not since the midway point of the season. 

You can cling to "well, he hasn't been worth the #1 pick so far" if you want, but it already reads different than your smug B U S T proclamations not too long ago.

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3 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

As a number one number one, yes he is still a bust. If he does this for 3 to 5 years and more then I will absolutely say that I was wrong. 

Yes, I believe undoubtedly  that that one highlight play against Michigan vaulted him to the very top of the draft class.  Very few people had even heard of the guy and then all of a sudden he was "The greatest football player in the galaxy".  That's not hyperbole, that's  actually what happened. 

Pro bowl selections don't mean anything to me nor should they to you.

 I can absolutely change my mind and admit when I'm wrong.  Up until the midway point of this season I stand by my assertion that he was a complete and utter bust to that point.  

Hey, I honestly hope the guy turns it around and has 20 sacks every single year, that would be extremely fun to watch.  I would jump at the chance to say I was wrong. Right now I was right in the beginning and it's trending to be that I was wrong. Time will tell.

 

 

Wow. He was #1 because of that hit? He was the #1 national recruit coming out of high school. Living right next to SC, it was huge news that he chose USC over Alabama. Maybe you weren't aware of him but he was an All-American his sophomore year with 13 sacks and 23.5 tackles for losses. That hit may have made him a household name, but after his first two years he was already at the top of the draft discussions once he was eligible. It says a lot that he had a down junior year and still went #1. Yes, his first two years were not good, but that hit was bigger because it was Clowney. There's tons of hits every year in college.

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21 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Yes, I believe undoubtedly  that that one highlight play against Michigan vaulted him to the very top of the draft class.  Very few people had even heard of the guy and then all of a sudden he was "The greatest football player in the galaxy".  That's not hyperbole, that's  actually what happened. 

:rolleyes:  Very few people had even heard of Clowney until the hit?  Maybe at your house.  Ask NFL team scouts, and any other team in the SEC, if they had heard of him prior to that Michigan game.  And no one ever said he was the greatest football player in the galaxy.  That's your hyperbole.  

5 star recruit out of HS who chose USC over Alabama, LSU, Clemson and Florida State and received offers from many other power 5 schools.  Major recruiting services (Rivals, Scout, ESPNU) considered him the #1 overall prospect in the 2011 recruiting class.  SEC freshman of the year and all SEC in 2011.

2012:  SEC defensive player of the year.  All SEC and All American, Ted Hendricks award as nation's best DE.  Finalist for the Chuck Bednarik Award, the Bronko Nagursky Award, and the Lombardi Award.

And he finished 6th overall in the 2012 Heisman Trophy voting (received 4 first place votes).  Heisman voting is done before the bowl games start.  He wasn't a Heisman candidate because of that one play.  

2013:  Injuries limited him for some of the season but he was still All-American and first team All-SEC.  

One last thing of note is how his presence affected his team.  He was at USC from 2011-2013, playing for Steve Spurrier.  Those 3 seasons are the only seasons in school history where the football team had 11 wins.  Of course he wasn't the only good player, but he was a major part of that success at a school that has historically struggled in the SEC.  They haven't sniffed a double digit win season since he left.  

Plenty of people had heard of Clowney prior to the big hit.  And now he is a big part of Houston's defensive success.  

 

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Pro bowl selections don't mean anything to me nor should they to you.

He also made the all-pro team this year, if the pro bowl isn't good enough for you.  Not many busts make those teams.  He is a fine talent.  Sorry if your pride prevents you from seeing or acknowledging it. 

Edited by Jayrok
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On 1/8/2017 at 11:45 AM, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Pro bowl selections don't mean anything to me nor should they to you.

 

Pro bowl selections shouldn't mean everything to us.  But if they don't mean anything at all to someone, there's something severely wrong with their ability to digest and process information since they are far from randomly given out.

Hope you're still not sticking to this ridiculous "bust" stance.  

Edited by GregR

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In line for a pretty nice extension come late August (when Rick Smith typically does extensions.) Just imagine if Mercilous and Watt had stayed healthy, what a terror the pass rush would have been this year.

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On 1/8/2017 at 11:45 AM, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

As a number one number one, yes he is still a bust. If he does this for 3 to 5 years and more then I will absolutely say that I was wrong. 

 

Three healthy years, three straight Pro Bowls. 

Third in the NFL in tackles for loss during those three years, one behind Aaron Donald.  Houston's D played the third fewest snaps over that time, his TFL rate per snap is better than Donald's, better than everyone's but Chandler Jones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI

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Do I understand this correctly?

Clowney hasn’t signed his franchise tender which means that he cannot be fined for not showing up to training camp or regular season games. He can refuse to sign it until he is ready to show up and as long as he is available for 6 games he will receive credit for season accrued toward free agency?

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Texans and Jadeveon Clowney did not reach a long-term deal before Monday’s deadline.

As expected, Houston’s failure to reach an agreement with Clowney will ultimately result in the 26-year-old holding out for a majority of training camp and inevitably playing out what could be his final year with the team on a franchise tag. It’s hardly surprising the two sides failed to meet in the middle given Clowney’s extensive injury history. He’s looking to build off the nine sacks and 16 TFLs he compiled just last year.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jul 15, 2019, 4:14 PM ET

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13 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Do I understand this correctly?

Clowney hasn’t signed his franchise tender which means that he cannot be fined for not showing up to training camp or regular season games. He can refuse to sign it until he is ready to show up and as long as he is available for 6 games he will receive credit for season accrued toward free agency?

Mostly yes.  He cannot be fined for not showing up to training camp or regular season games. He can refuse to sign it until he is ready to show up.  But like Bell and Gordon, he doesn't have to play 6 games.  He doesn't need the year of seniority (although it's nice for benefits reason) toward Free Agency, he's already a vested veteran and UFA.  He has been designated a Franchise Player player as of now.  Even if he doesn't show up, that is his status.  As Bell showed us last year he doesn't have to collect a check, sign the tender, or show up at all.  He's been FT, and if they tag him again next year that will be his 2nd time being designated a Franchise Player with all of the accoutrements that come with that.  Rinse repeat for 2021.

Edited by Hankmoody

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Houston Chronicle's John McClain would be surprised if Jadeveon Clowney was not traded.

The Texans have "no idea" when Clowney would return to training camp, but NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported Clowney could rejoin the team after the third preseason game. Clowney's injury history makes him a risky player to sign long-term, so it would make some sense for Houston to find a trade partner, especially if they can get offensive line help. On the surface, the Texans should be calling for Redskins OT Trent Williams. If nothing materializes, Clowney will be playing on a one-year, $16 million deal in 2019.

SOURCE: John McClain on Twitter

Aug 13, 2019, 3:28 PM ET

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Pro Football Network @PFN365

There are multiple teams in the mix for Jadeveon Clowney and we've been working to identify those teams. This includes the #Seahawks, #Bills & #Dolphins. 

Here's our latest report with information from @TonyPauline, @MrColeThompson,& @CannataPFN.

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Unsigned Texans franchise player Jadeveon Clowney has fired his agent, Bus Cook.

We wouldn't normally blurb a player firing their agent, but it suggests Clowney wants to report. Per NFL.com's James Palmer, Clowney and Cook were "not on the same page in terms of Clowney's future." The Houston Chronicle reports Clowney is "extremely frustrated." He must wait five days before hiring a new player rep. Clowney's holdout has dragged on long enough that it's no longer a guarantee he will be active for Week 1 even if he reports before the opener. A trade also remains on the table.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter

Aug 27, 2019, 3:01 PM ET

 

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The Houston Chronicle reports the Dolphins are "very interested" in trading for unsigned Texans franchise player Jadeveon Clowney.

Per reporter Aaron Wilson, the trick is "(getting) him interested in going there." Wilson reports Clowney would prefer to head to Seattle or Philadelphia. It's unclear if the interest is mutual. Clowney fired his agent Bus Cook on Tuesday, so it appears the situation could soon be coming to a head. The Texans' opener is in just 12 days.

SOURCE: Aaron Wilson on Twitter

Aug 27, 2019, 3:19 PM ET

 

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More of an MFL specific question - but he's listed as a DE right now, even though he's technically an OLB in a 3-4.  Will that be locked in, no matter where he goes and how he's used this year?

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3 hours ago, matttyl said:

More of an MFL specific question - but he's listed as a DE right now, even though he's technically an OLB in a 3-4.  Will that be locked in, no matter where he goes and how he's used this year?

No.  Based on past years, there is still likely to be one more position update before kickoff of the season.

Once that happens it won’t matter where he goes or plays.  The positions don’t change in-season.

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43 minutes ago, Arodin said:

No.  Based on past years, there is still likely to be one more position update before kickoff of the season.

Once that happens it won’t matter where he goes or plays.  The positions don’t change in-season.

that's what I'm asking.  Was more of an IDP section question, but he's got his own thread here.

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51 minutes ago, Arodin said:

No.  Based on past years, there is still likely to be one more position update before kickoff of the season.

Once that happens it won’t matter where he goes or plays.  The positions don’t change in-season.

Wasn't ther one instance of a DEF player getting traded in-season and his position changed on MFL? Maybe 3-4 yrs ago?

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Just read that Houston extended Clowney's backup and Seattle just cleared a roster spot. Speculation for sure, but what would this do for the Seattle D's ranking if true?

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1 minute ago, Scooby1974 said:

Just read that Houston extended Clowney's backup and Seattle just cleared a roster spot. Speculation for sure, but what would this do for the Seattle D's ranking if true?

Seattle already had a spot open so I doubt it's related.  However, having said that...

The Seattle D's weak spot would be at RCB and SS.  Otherwise, their front 7 would be Ansah, Jarran Reed (suspended for 6 games--likely filled in by Earl Mitchel or Al Woods), Poona Ford (for those that don't know, Poona is going to be a name--bank it), and Clowney, then Bobby Wagner, KJ Wright, and Mychal Kendricks.  That would be a nasty D, especially if Shaquill Griffin and Marquise Blair played up to expectations.

I'd change them up to a top-5 DST play.

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15 minutes ago, Scooby1974 said:

Just read that Houston extended Clowney's backup and Seattle just cleared a roster spot. Speculation for sure, but what would this do for the Seattle D's ranking if true?

What would be the asking price? Any rumors?

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Just now, ex-ghost said:

What would be the asking price? Any rumors?

There was a rumor earlier in the year (when he could still be signed to a long-term deal) that he could be had for a 2nd rounder.  I would assume the price has dropped since then.  There are a ton of people online suggesting player trades, but I can't see a skill player being effective this late in TC.  I think it's more likely they get a 3rd or 4th and that's it with perhaps a conditional pick in there somewhere.

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3 minutes ago, ex-ghost said:

What would be the asking price? Any rumors?

Are you offering a Penny for our thoughts?

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22 hours ago, Arodin said:

No.  Based on past years, there is still likely to be one more position update before kickoff of the season.

Once that happens it won’t matter where he goes or plays.  The positions don’t change in-season.

It has happened though

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NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports unsigned franchise player Jadeveon Clowney is willing to sit out regular season games.

Clowney fired his agent this week. He's told "several people" he‘s not afraid to miss games as he figures out his future. Clowney doesn't have much reason to carry his holdout into the season — the deadline to extend franchise players has passed — but he may be looking to protect himself against injury. The Dolphins have been strongly linked as a potential trade partner for Clowney.

SOURCE: NFL Network

Aug 28, 2019, 7:48 PM ET

 

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The Houston Chronicle reports the Seahawks and Eagles have been in trade talks for unsigned franchise player Jadeveon Clowney.

The Dolphins are the frontrunners for Clowney, but the Texans have reached out to two of his preferred teams. The Jets and Washington have also expressed interest. Houston has been in a holding pattern with Clowney, who won't report or sign his franchise tender. Clowney is upset over being shopped and is willing to sit out regular season games. The three-time Pro Bowler looks destined to be traded before Week 1.

RELATED: 

Miami Dolphins

, Philadelphia Eagles

, Seattle Seahawks

SOURCE: Houston Chronicle

Aug 29, 2019, 9:02 AM ET

 

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The Houston Chronicle reports unsigned Texans franchise player Jadeveon Clowney is "adamant" that he does not want to be traded to Miami.

Clowney holds all the cards, as a deal can't happen without him first signing the tag. Clowney is trying to force his way to a contender, reportedly either Philadelphia or Seattle. It's a major blow for the Texans, who covet Dolphins LT Laremy Tunsil.

Dominate with our Draft Guide: Check out our complete IDP Rankings!

RELATED: 

Miami Dolphins

SOURCE: Aaron Wilson on Twitter

Aug 30, 2019, 4:54 PM ET

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patrick‏Verified account @PatDStat

#Seahawks are making a strong push for Jadeveon Clowney. #Texans

4:14 AM - 31 Aug 2019

------------------------------------

patrick‏Verified account @PatDStat 2h2 hours ago

Both the #Seahawks and #Texans ramped up talks late last night into the morning. Seeing if they can get something done for Clowney.

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An NFL team trying to make such a huge move like this without having a GM in place is straight foolishness.

As much as I love Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane, the Bills holding onto Doug Whaley as a lame duck GM 2 years ago and essentially operating without a GM was a major mis-step that ended with the Bills passing on both Mahomes and Watson because McDermott didn't feel comfortable choosing a QB. 

Operating without a GM can lead to really poor decisions. For Houston's sake, I hope they aren't really screwing this up.

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Glazer's got it.  Contingent of physicalS (not just him involved).

 

Meant to quote Gabes "To Seattle" post.

Edited by Coach3K
Typos suck

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