Neofight
Footballguy
So are Wallace's and that did the trick.
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RB/WR Cordarrelle Patterson, PIT (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
This is one of those threads that I pay no attention to. IMO cp is one of the most cut and dry easy peasy players to evaluate in the nfl. He is a stud. And you play him. Every week. Regardless of opponent. Unless you own a top 5 wr that has to start over him. Period. How some people don't see this is beyond me.
jurb26
Footballguy
You couldn't find the button at first?
Yenrub
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I am a big fan of his already - have him on several teams - but the guy is still developing as an NFL WR, and you cannot rely on long touchdowns every week, especially via the run from a WR. I'll start him every week without hesitation, but the apprehension of some, given his pedestrian NFL receiving numbers to date (29 receiving yards per game, 48 per game in his last five if you wanna focus on his most recent games), is understandable.rickyg said:
Milkman
Footballguy
This is where I'm at. I mean if you were ever going to bench Patterson it would be against Revis and the Pats right?
Gene Sackman
Footballguy
Go hang out with Andy Dufresne dude, join his Broncos fan club..mr roboto said:
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Has it been explicitly stated that Revis will be shadowing CP? Revis didn't shadow Wallace last week, instead opting to take the Sherman approach and stick to one side. Whose to say that NE doesn't stick to the same gameplan?
Re is isn't nearly the scary matchup that he used to be anymore. And the vikes are going to move cp around the formation and put him in position to make plays whether it's catching passes or running plays. Again, I'm not worried. Could he have a down game? Certainly. But he's also capable of having a tremendous game based on his talent level. Let's say he gets bottled up a bit. With his talent level "bottled up" is probably like 60-70 total yards. I'll take that as a floor. You won't find a player in fantasy with more upside on any given week though.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You can't "shadow" jet sweeps, WR screens, traditional carries, and throws behind the line of scrimmage. Revis is not a reason to talk yourselves into benching this guy.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
If you think Patterson is close to Wallace in route abilities, then I don't know what to say. Wallace isn't the greatest, but he is light years beyond CP in this area currently.Neofight said:
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I honestly don't know how anyone can watch the toss sweep he took to the house against the Rams and then bench him. Who cares what his routes look like? Norv will get him the ball.
Dork Matter
Footballguy
Do you believe the jet/fly sweep is working for Minnesota? Do you believe it opens up the entire offense when correctly incorporated into a game script? Do you believe Turner is the kind of coach to do that successfully? And do you believe defenses might as well sit down and cry when the sweep action at the start of a play could eaually lead to a CP sweep, ADP toss, seam to Rudolph, out to Jennings, or post to Wright?
If you believe the answers to those questions are yes, and I do, then I think you have to conclude that Patterson is going to be magnificent throughout the season.
If you believe the answers to those questions are yes, and I do, then I think you have to conclude that Patterson is going to be magnificent throughout the season.
chickensoup
Footballguy
In my time playing Fantasy Football, one of the things I've learned is do not sit Patterson types if you have them, but only have them in the right circumstances. You basically have to be in a spot where you're not counting on him (or Harvin which is where I learned it from) for more that 8-10 points in PPR in any week. You don't want him as your WR1, that will bury you some weeks (sometimes multiple in a row) because the targets won't be there. He's a decent WR2 and an outstanding WR3.
He's not reliant on receiving volume or Red Zone targets for production which is where your top flight WRs have value. I don't discount his production, but his stat line was way different if he had a 20 yard run (which is pretty dang good) vice a 67 yard TD (10 point swing). This is what makes him not someone you want as your primary WR1 (bye weeks aside).
But, he's the ultimate upside play. He doesn't rely on random weeks where he gets 12 targets like most WR3s do. He relies on his talent, which is super high. And he has a higher floor than typical boom/bust players and has a higher boom potential as well.
I have him rostered in 2 leagues. In one he's my WR3 with Cobb and Andre Johnson. In the other he's my WR4/every week Flex where I went WR heavy (DThomas/Dez/A.Brown). That's probably about perfect considering his usage. If he doesn't score long TDs he is still a good play no matter what. Any higher and I think you're relying on the fluctuating yards/play too much for his few targets in the passing game
He's not reliant on receiving volume or Red Zone targets for production which is where your top flight WRs have value. I don't discount his production, but his stat line was way different if he had a 20 yard run (which is pretty dang good) vice a 67 yard TD (10 point swing). This is what makes him not someone you want as your primary WR1 (bye weeks aside).
But, he's the ultimate upside play. He doesn't rely on random weeks where he gets 12 targets like most WR3s do. He relies on his talent, which is super high. And he has a higher floor than typical boom/bust players and has a higher boom potential as well.
I have him rostered in 2 leagues. In one he's my WR3 with Cobb and Andre Johnson. In the other he's my WR4/every week Flex where I went WR heavy (DThomas/Dez/A.Brown). That's probably about perfect considering his usage. If he doesn't score long TDs he is still a good play no matter what. Any higher and I think you're relying on the fluctuating yards/play too much for his few targets in the passing game
Squintz82
Footballguy
The way I look at, is he's my WR3 who will at a minimum get 2-3 carries a game + return yards. If they can't pass the ball into his hands down-field, they have high percentage packages to get the ball in his hands. You can't say the same for almost any other WR3/2 in the league. Opportunity will be there EVERY game, and that's worth a start IMO.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Exactly.
Patterson and Harvin are my WR2 and flex right now on one team. It could be very boom or bust some weeks, especially non PPR. Look at Harvin last week. He looked great as an nfl player, but still only put up 10 points... Which is good but not great fantasy wise. But those weeks that they both go off will make up for it. And the weeks where one goes off and the other gets 6-10 points I'll be comfortable with.
Wait until later in the season when teams start getting banged up though. Percy will be making more big plays. Remember, these 1st couple of weeks everybody is at full strength. We haven't seen teams start to break down yet.
Neofight
Footballguy
Go back and watch the routes that Wallace beat Revis with and then decide what you should say. They were bad and so was Revis.
ex-ghost
Footballguy
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
For a WR who doesn't run the ball it's like 79 catches and 10 TD's.
It will be scary if Patterson learns to run routes well.
massraider
Footballguy
Pre-draft note that got blown up beyond belief. Haven't seen any Shark Pool scouts point out any bad routes yet, but I am sure I just missed them.
Omniscient Deity
Footballguy
I try to watch repllays of games when I can with NFL Rewind, he still looks like a mediocre route runner to me from what I saw in week one and last year. His speed will get him open/separation, but he needs to be a more efficient and smart route runner to be a high volume pass catcher. He's not there yet.
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massraider
Footballguy
I am sure, which makes him the same as every other young WR in the league. The list of rookie WRs that came in with the route-running skills of Marvin Harrison or Isaac Bruce is zero.
He needs to run routes better. They all do. Difference is, while this guy learns, he takes kickoffs and handoffs to the house.
Omniscient Deity
Footballguy
No doubt. Even though he's still "raw" as a NFL WR his amazing ability as a runner makes him worth starting every week. He should get multiple carries and a couple of short passes/screens every week.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
I have both of these guys too, and I see Percy having a safer floor, while Patterson having a significantly higher ceiling. Each week is a educated guess based on the defenses they are playing and what game script you see unfolding.
Neofight
Footballguy
We were talking about Wallace and a half assed double move that Revis bit on. That one is in Pattersons bag o' tricks. Only his breaks are more explosive.
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massraider
Footballguy
One thing I keep coming back to:
In the NFL now, I feel like I've heard every offensive coach talk about playmakers. Guys that can take something easy and high-percentage, and make something out of nothing. I feel like more than ever, special athletes are given the rock, and everyone else clear out of the way. It's like the NBA, where Kobe or LeBron gets the rock, and everyone else runs to the other side of the court.
Patterson isn't going to score a long TD every single week. Of course not. He'll have quiet weeks. Like every other WR. But I find it hard to believe that this run of games, going back to middle of last season, is a fluke. I just don't believe that,
They have Jennings and Rudolph, to move the chains, but the goal needs to be getting the ball out of Cassell's hands as quickly as possible, to his playmakers: ADP and Patterson. The Vikings aren't trying to have Cassell complete safe passes all the way down the field on sustained drives--at some point, he'll remember he's Matt Cassell, and he'll screw up.
If Andy Reid was the coach, I'd be worried about Patterson bizarrely not getting enough looks. Otherwise, I think he has as almost as many plays where he is 1st option as ADP.
cstu
Footballguy
What it means is that he's not getting open primarily on technique. Right now he's simply more talented than the CB's he's facing.
Think about it - if he was beating CB's with good route running he'd have a lot more deep receptions and higher than a 10 YPR.
He's only 23, plenty of time for him to get there.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think Matt Cassel is underrated, aside from his disastrous final year in KC he has been a solid QB who is not the turnover machine people make him out to be.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Looking at the numbers since his breakout (admittedly small sample), last six games, 32 touches and 7 TDs.ex-ghost said:
TD every 4.57 times he touches the ball.
I'm starting to think of Patterson not as a WR (like calling Harvin, not a WR or RB, but a hybrid WRB), though I completely agree he will be even scarier when he gets there (currently averaging 2.8 receptions per game in his career - slightly over 3 even if restricted to the past six game breakout), and I think he will.
For now, I think of him differently. In the vein of calling Denard Robinson an OW, Patterson is an OFR*. He is also a vector weapon. There are players with a gift for intuitively seeing how the play will unfold in the open field, but may not have the elite speed to execute what they saw and take it the distance, and vice verce. Patterson has the speed to get to almost anywhere he needs to, and seems to be some kind of prodigy at what we tend to put in a black box and call instincts or vision, but could also be called mastery of the complex, interlocking geometry required to navigate a field with 21 other players, 11 on defense, moving vertically, horizontally, diagonally at different speeds (with different rates of acceleration) relative to each other. Don't try it at home, Patterson is a highly trained professional.
I also like hearing a recent interview in which he said he hates to get tackled, and is trying to score every single time he touches the ball. That may sound like a cliche, but he really means it, and believes he can do it!
*OPEN FIELD RUNNER
** Below are some other numbers from an ESPN article.
Patterson is only the second player since 1950 (with Brian Mitchell) to have 100 rushing yards in a game with 3 or less carries.
He has 50 yards rushing in three straight games. McCluster is the only other "WR" (he is now listed as RB) to have three such games since 2001. His were all in 2011, and not consecutive.
Patterson has five career rushes lined up in the backfield. All have gone for at least 33 yards, and three have been TDs.
He has at least one TD in six straight games, the longest current streak of any active skill player, and the longest for a WR since Wes Welker did it in eight straight games from the 2012 to 2013 season.
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/95307/patterson-makes-things-happen-efficiently
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chickensoup
Footballguy
He does fit well with the QB situation. Short, high percentage routes that could lead to plenty of yards after the catch. I think a lot of the negative outlooks concerning him fail to recognize that both Cassel and Bridgewater (if he gets a shot) should be put into a position to succeed in this manner out of necessity. I don't see Norv trying to turn this team vertical just because. He's smart enough to realize that they don't have the personnel to chuck it 40 yards and trust the WR beats the DB(s)
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I've been thinking about this lately, too.
It may be the case for now. Putting aside a nuanced discussion of how relatively advanced (or not) his route running skills are.
1 - He can run by most CBs.
2 - He has good hands (contrary to some beliefs, who may assume that is a cause for his not getting more receptions so far).
3 - Why not incorporate more vertical routes, throw it deep to him a few times a game, and see if good things happen (he had a play like this in the pre-season, he was open by a car length and caught the ball effortlessly, even though it was over the shoulder)?
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werdnoynek
Footballguy
AP indicted... bump Patterson?
LawFitz
Footballguy
chauncey
Footballguy
First it was his bad hands, then his bad qb, then his bad routes. You guys are missing the point, looking at this the wrong way. Who cares about anything he does poorly, he scores TDs and gets fantasy points. As mentioned above he has 6 straight games with a score, most of those from 30+ yards out. He is what you might call a Goal Line Receiver from anywhere on the field. Can he sustain this pace, probably not. In the meantime, start him until proven otherwise, and if you don't own him just watch him play a game. This guy already got in the HoF twice his rookie season, no telling what he is gonna do going forward, but it will be special no doubt.
lod01
Footballguy
Omniscient Deity
Footballguy
Patterson should also get extra touches though, I'll be interested to see how the Pats gameplan for him before deciding whether to upgrade or downgrade him without AP.
If AP is out, one of Rudolph or Patterson will get theirs.
I'd bet Rudolph does fine, but Belicheck keeps Patterson in check.
jurb26
Footballguy
Graham can't do what Patterson can. So I hope he does give him the Graham treatment. Could be a monster day.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm in this camp. Flash takes a downgrade with AP gone. Hopefully not a big one.
jurb26
Footballguy
This is old rhetoric that people say because they think it's true from his draft profile. It disregards the development he's made from JUCO to Tenn to now IMO. He is not a great route runner. But he is far more capable than any seems to give him credit for.
