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RB/WR Cordarrelle Patterson, PIT (4 Viewers)

Ghost of Bill Walsh said:
I feel he's gonna make an immediate impact even with Jennings around and Ponder as his QB. His value would skyrocket if he had a QB that was more accomplished. Even with Ponder I think he's gonna post good #2 WR numbers. I picked him up off waivers in 4 espn leagues,so I'll gladly take a flier on him. If he hits he'll definitely make a lot of fantasy team owners happy.
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What's "good #2 WR" numbers? Are you taking #15 WR for the season? Sorry, even his biggest supporters admit to him being extremely raw, and there is no way a rookie WR with Ponder throwing him the ball gets into the top twenty WRs for the season.

 
I'd be selling in redraft formats. He needs some polishing, and I don't see him being much of a factor this season, fantasy wise. He is a talent, however, and I think his ceiling is high, in keeper/dynasty formats.

 
The exception to his redraft value would be in return yardage leagues. This kid may be one of the best returners in the league on day 1, and if your scoring system rewards that enough, it may make him a lot more viable. In my leagues, on return value alone he's a speculative flex week to week.

That's where I'm most likely to take the plunge. In standard or even PPR leagues, he could frustrate a bit in redraft.

He's absolute dynamite with the ball in his hands though. I'd love to have him in a dynast -- very, VERY high ceiling player.

 
The Man With No Name said:
Here are some other 1st round wide receivers you may remember:

David Terrell

Freddie Mitchell

Ashley Lelie

Bryant Johnson

Charles Rogers

Rashaun Woods

Reggie Williams

Matt Jones

Mike Williams

Troy Williamson

Ted Ginn

Craig Davis

edit: I drafted Patterson in my only rookie draft to date.
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wasn't Randy Moss a first round pick, heard on local radio that Patterson has "moss like ability when catching the ball" So why isn't moss on the list

 
Gopher State said:
The Man With No Name said:
Here are some other 1st round wide receivers you may remember:

David Terrell

Freddie Mitchell

Ashley Lelie

Bryant Johnson

Charles Rogers

Rashaun Woods

Reggie Williams

Matt Jones

Mike Williams

Troy Williamson

Ted Ginn

Craig Davis

edit: I drafted Patterson in my only rookie draft to date.
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wasn't Randy Moss a first round pick, heard on local radio that Patterson has "moss like ability when catching the ball" So why isn't moss on the list
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Or Calvin, or Fitz, or Julio, or Roddy, or Andre...

 
Rotoworld:

After a big play-filled preseason opener, coach Leslie Frazier promised to "continue to feed" rookie Cordarrelle Patterson.
Patterson totaled 104 yards; a 50-yard kickoff return and 54 receiving yards. "We felt like he was going to have a chance to be a good returner early on," Frazier said. "We weren't sure how fast he'd come as a receiver. ... We've just got to keep feeding him to help him to continue to grow." Patterson's current ADP is the mid-13th round, where he is absolute robbery in fantasy drafts.

Source: FOX Sports North

Aug 10 - 7:31 PM
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Vikings' Cordarrelle Patterson impresses Leslie Frazier

By Chris Wesseling

Around the League Writer

First-round rookie wide receivers Cordarrelle Patterson and DeAndre Hopkins were the most exciting players on the field in the Houston Texans' 27-13 victory over the Minnesota Vikings on Friday night.

After averaging 20.8 yards on five touches, Patterson had teammates and coaches raving over his preseason debut.

"(Patterson) is great with the ball in his hands, obviously," quarterback Christian Ponder said. "I always had high expectations for him. I think he did even better with the lights on."

Although coach Leslie Frazier stopped short of predicting that Patterson would push Jerome Simpson for the starting job opposite Greg Jennings, it's clear that the Vikings want to get the ball in Patterson's hands as much as possible.

"That's exactly what you want out of a rookie playing wide receiver in our league," Frazier said of Patterson's performance, via Fox Sports North. "He's going to be hungry coming back, now we just have to keep feeding him, helping him continue to grow."

The early signs suggest Patterson can approximate Percy Harvin's post-catch playmaking ability while matching his impact on kickoff returns. Until the coaching staff and quarterbacks are confident that Patterson will be where he is supposed to be on each play, though, he's going to take a backseat to Jennings and Simpson in the passing game. It's a situation to monitor the rest of the month.

The Around The League Podcast is now available on iTunes! Click here to listen and subscribe.
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Rotoworld:

OC Bill Musgrave noted that first-round WR Cordarrelle Patterson has been on point with his assignments.
The freakishly talented yet raw Patterson appears to be developing even faster than expected. Through two preseason games, he's recorded six catches for 73 yards despite playing just 52 snaps. "The quarterbacks want to know that guys are going to be dependable, be at the right depth, come out at the right angle and he was that way. ... And quarterbacks are starting to trust him," Musgrave said.


Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune
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I can see Patterson becoming the go-to WR over Jennings by the time the season ends. Maybe even sooner if early returns are any indication about what he can do.

 
zamboni said:
I can see Patterson becoming the go-to WR over Jennings by the time the season ends. Maybe even sooner if early returns are any indication about what he can do.
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Optimistic but not IMPOSSIBLE. I'd say 10% chance of him surpassing Jennings in the 2nd half, though. Will see. Hope you're right.

 
of the top 5-10 WRs in the NFL, patterson is somewhat atypical height/weight-wise...

WRs 6'3" usually weigh more than his 205 lbs.

another exception is his closest comp physically in top 5-10 WRs, AJ green... not identical but close, at 6'4" 207 lbs.

if patterson were to gain 10 lbs... not sure if he he has frame to do so... green seems like he will always be, for lack of a better word, skinny... a separate but related question follows... would it even be desirable to add 10 lbs, IF, his current weight helps him to be more explosive, quicker and faster, and he is big ENOUGH to do what he needs to as NFL WR... not sure if there is a kind of size optima... certainly lately, the WRs that are 6'3" or 6'4", like patterson or green, tend to be more in 220-225-230 range (with calvin being an outlier on the high end, at about 240+ lbs.)... WRs like dre, marshall, thomas, bryant and julio fall into this category... size and strength presumably comprise important traits of a WRs overall skill set, to not only avoid being outmuscled by DBs, but to outmuscle DBs themselves, just on level of sheer greater mass, correctly positioned, a bigger body can put DB farther away from the ball (though at a certain point, harder for all but one of few freaks on planet like calvin who's ridiculous size doesn't prevent him from getting in position, because he has movement skills the equal or superior to much smaller defenders), and it can of course help with RAC skills, to name few...

that said, green doesn't seem to suffer from not weighing 15-20-25+ lbs. more than many of his elite, blue chip WR peers and counterparts... he seems to be a good size well fitted or suited to his gliding, soaring game and style...

there was a parable about how animals have evolved to a size they are adapted for... making a horse 10 times bigger would involve a whole nest of interconnected complications (things having to do with surface area and mass changing at different rates and according to discrepant curves having bad implications for things like heat dispersal... maybe bone structure "template" adapted to one size would be crushed under a far larger weight, etc.)...

manny pacquiao, within an amazingly broad range, was able to be best boxer in world at many different weight classes (boxing afficianados might debate at what weight and class was he best pound-for-pound?)... but at certain lower or upper threshold, that would no longer be the case... even if it hard to pinpoint ONE optima, it is easier to express these concerns in terms of ranges and boundaries...

this line of thinking doesn't address differences in game and style between patterson and green, the top 5-10 WR he most closely resembles as physical comp...

patterson looks more dangerous in open field, I think he has more elite top end speed...

green of course more polished and refined route runner...

patterson has been called raw, and that is understandable in terms of route running... despite his freakish physical and athletic gifts, they could be rendered moot if he had bad hands... but they seem to be very good, maybe better than advertised (i saw a breakdown that pointed out a few technical issues, occasional body catching, etc.)... but if hands aren't going to be an issue, that could be key to allowing him to hit the field more often... once he has the ball in his hands, there isn't much question he has what it takes to be a star...

ponder could be a rate limiting step, at first (or not, depending on how he developes), but if vikings want to reprise harvin's role, some of those passes are inherently high percentage, and might fit better with ponder's capability (limitations?)... flips, flares, bubble screens, etc...

some of the early information about his seemingly rapid acclimation to the next level (after the draft a few months ago, some were hoping he could just primarily be a good ST weapon) could suggest greater optimism both for redraft projection... and also dynasty forecast... some WRs never demonstrate hands as good he has already flashed in a few months and relatively short period (like another, even higher pedigree viking, troy williamson)... doesn't look like that will be an impediment to the vikings expanding his opportunities sooner than expected... also impressive and bodes well that he is said to be assignment sound early, inability to handle that (and MIN can help smooth transition to more complex pro schemes by keeping it simple at first, adding more of playbook and growing his package of plays gradually and in stages, like scaffolding) has been a sort of rock that the early part of many young WRs early career has foundered on, and ultimately been scuttled altogether... it probably also bodes well that he was able to do so well last year with only JUCO preparation... what will he be capable of after being coached up by george stewart?

* a question that might be germane in attempting to drill down to matters more concerned with INTRINSIC value of patterson, green and jones...

maybe they would have been drafted in different places, repectively, if patterson had played several years at tennessee and not gone JUCO route... and green and jones each spent two years at JUCO level, leaving only one at georgia and alabama... and less time of higher level coaching, and opportunity to be in scouting limelight?

 
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Height Adjusted Speed ScoreGenerally, the larger/faster the receiver is, the better. Being 5-11 and running a 4.6 40 won't preclude you from being a good WR, but it certainly doesn't do you any favors. Tried as I might, I couldn't find the formula for HaSS, so I can only go off of the end results from MitBS.com. HaSS is tiered, where 100 is exactly average, above 110 is excellent, and above 120 is absolute physical dominance.

Dominator Rating
This statistic is much easier to understand, and relatively easy to calculate. I'll take you through the simple calculation, but we need to take a step back for a minute. The statistic DR is built upon two key statistics: Market Share of Yards, and Market Share of Touchdowns. Some of you may have heard of it, others may not. Its not an extremely common statistic as far as I can tell. Basically, what Market Share measures is a receivers dominance relative to the rest of his team. Whenever people have tried to compare college receivers, particularly recently with the rise of the spread offense, the question has been, how do one receivers yards stack up against another's?

Lets do a simple example. What if Player A had 1200 yards receiving and 10 touchdowns, while Player B had 800 yards receiving and 6 touchdowns? At first glance, player A would appear to have had a much better season. However, what if Player A's team that year had a total of 4000 yards passing and 40 passing touchdowns, while Player B's team only passed for 2000 total yards and only 12 touchdowns? That's where Market Share comes into play. Essentially, all MS is, is a players total yards or touchdowns divided by the teams total yards or touchdowns.

The reasoning behind the concept of Market Share is as follows: on any given passing down, there are 5 different targets for the QB to throw to. If all players were equally talented, the QB would distribute his targets evenly, with each option receiving 20% of the teams total targets. If a player is talented though, they would start receiving more of their teams respective passing stats. A player that receives a good portion of their teams passing stats would generally be more skilled at getting open, therefore the QB would target them more often.

So in our hypothetical analysis of Player's A and B, we see that, according to Market Share of Yards and Touchdowns, Player B was actually much more effective within his respective offense, as he accounted for:

  • 40% of his teams total yardage
  • 50% of his teams total passing Touchdowns
While player A only achieved
  • 30% of his teams total yardage
  • 25% of his teams total passing Touchdowns
Using Market Share, we can start to equalize different yardage totals within different offenses to see which receivers were truly dominant. Dominator Rating simply takes the two different Market Share measurements and averages them. So Player A would have a DR of .275, which is mediocre. Player B, on the other hand, has a DR of .45, which is very, very strong. Coupling that with HaSS, we can start to identify wide receivers who are dominant in college and are physical monsters. So who comes up on our list of HaSS monsters? I'm sure many can probably guess, but the number 1 overall, all time HaSS king is: Calvin Johnson. Not really a surprise there, as the guy is 6-5, 238 pounds and ran a sub 4.4 40. Couple that with his amazing .56 DR, and we can easily see why Johnson is the best WR in the game today.

So who are some other top HaSS Monsters currently playing WR in the NFL? It is your veritable who's who list of physically dominant receivers.

  • Vincent Jackson, with an HaSS of 131 and a DR of .63
  • Julio Jones, with an HaSS of 127, and a DR of .32
  • Stephen Hill, with an HaSS of 125, and a DR of .45*
*It should be noted, that due to the Triple Option offense he played in, Stephen Hill's DR might be somewhat overblown. It also explains why when he got drafted, he could only run go routes. Those are 3 of the top HaSS scores on record. Lets now take a look at some of the top picks in the 2013 draft, and see how they measured up. I will list them in the order they were selected.

Charles Johnson was not picked anywhere near the top 2 rounds of the draft, but his production and athleticism grades make him one of the better prospects in this draft. The knock on him is that he was from such a small school, that the level of competition was inferior and not a good test of his abilities. Also, that he will have trouble adjusting to NFL level competition. I'll wait here patiently while you Google which team drafted Johnson. Or you could click on the link I setup for you and get your swearing out of the way that much faster. *The DR in parentheses includes their rushing statistics. **The DR in parentheses for Dobson is his 2011 season, in which he was dominant relative to his pathetic 2012 season.

That takes us through the 2nd round of the 2013 draft, and while there are other standouts from the draft that I didn't add to the list, that isn't really the point of this article. As you can see, CP84 has a very good HaSS, but a shockingly low DR. The bit about his HaSS confirms what we've already known: he is a physical monster. The low DR though, would seemingly indicate that he wasn't very good in his final season in college. Adding in his rushing statistics helps him somewhat, but a DR of .24 is still pedestrian.
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Scouting Saves the Day

While the previous paragraph makes it look that I am down on CP84, I'm actually not. Quite the opposite. This is where the 'scouting vs statistics' enteres the equation. The statistics side of the equation is down on CP84. This is where the disconnect between scouting and stats comes into play. Football, for all the recent work that has been done in the statistics side of things, is not Baseball. Sabermetrics took Baseball by storm, because it is such a statistic driven game. Football to is statistic driven, however not to the extent that Baseball is. There are numerous things, too many to list, that will never show up in a box score in Football.
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Another reason why 'Sabermetrics' haven't become quite as popular for Football as for Baseball, is that while they are absolutely useful, they are not always 100% accurate. As far as scouting CP84 goes, the Vikings clearly saw something that they liked in him. That is part of the disconnect between scouting and statistics. Neither method will guarantee 100% accuracy, but that doesn't mean that one or the other doesn't have value. It also means that just because one method identifies a player as not very good, it doesn't mean that that player can't have success. Furthermore, I highly doubt the Vikings would have given up so many picks for him if they didn't know exactly what his weaknesses were, and had a plan for overcoming them. It also should be noted that there are wide receivers that have achieved NFL success despite having low DR numbers. In fact, you all are very familiar with him Percy Harvin

Coming out of college, Harvin was billed as a multi-use player. Someone who could take a screen pass to the house, run the ball out of the backfield, and also catch passes down the field. He absolutely lived up to that billing during his time in Minnesota. While never the best route runner, his versatility and explosiveness made him one of the best, albeit unconventional, wide receivers in the game. No one will ever confuse Harvin with a traditional number 1 receiver, but you don't have to have a dominant HaSS to find success in the NFL. While I don't have the formula to calculate it, I suspect that Jerry Rice's HaSS isn't going to crack a top anything list anytime soon. Obviously, Rice is an extreme example, but the point holds. HaSS and DR are great tools, and ones that can help us identify future Elite WRs, but it isn't an all encompassing tool.

Back to Patterson

So now, we are left with a WR who is physically dominant, particularly with the ball in his hands, but relatively unaccomplished as a college receiver. Couple that with reports of his body catching, sloppy route running, and poor release, and what exactly do what have on our hands? Well, it seems that we have exactly what we thought we would have when we drafted him: a raw receiver who has tons of potential. The reason why I'm not as alarmed as some might be with Patterson's low DR is because that was his only year of playing against top college opponents. The fact that he came in as an unrefined player, and did as well as he did, is impressive to me. From all of Arif's accounts from training camp, he has slowly started to improve his route running, has been working on his release, and is decidedly not a body catcher.

I've seen people say they see a little Julio Jones in him before, which I don't think is a fair comparison to either player. While they are both physical specimens, Julio Jones is very accomplished as a route runner, and was much farther ahead of CP84 when he came out of college. That's not to say that Patterson can't get there, but he is definitely not there yet.

So, what can we expect from Patterson moving forward? Well, the Vikings will obviously attempt to get him the ball in space, and let him do his thing. People who want him to overtake Simpson this year had better hope that he picks up the finer points of being an NFL receiver quickly. As for his long term prospects, it really is a waiting game at this point. He has the physical tools to be an Elite NFL wide receiver, that much is clear. Whether he becomes that all depends on if he can pick up the finer points of the game. If he isn't able to do this, he won't necessarily be a bust, he could still find success, but it probably won't end up looking like Julio Jones' success. It will be more like Percy Harvin's success.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/8/15/4623528/cordarrelle-patterson-scouting-vs-statistics
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I am not really a fan of these metrics, but found it an interesting read. Charles Johnson is likely worth a look in deeper leagues as well.

 
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I don't think Green is a good comp at all for Patterson. Patterson is 6'2, 220. Green is 6'4, 207. That's a massive difference in density and bulk. Green, as you said is skinny. Skinny to a point that he almost looks lanky. He's an unreal athlete though and is remarkably smooth, ala Moss. I've also said for a couple of years now that Green is deceptively fast and explosive. He's a guy that just makes it look so easy that you don't notice how fast he's moving.

Patterson is much more bulk to his build, particularly lower body bulk. The reason he runs with the power and effectiveness of a RB is because he's almost got the lower body of one. To me, the best comp I can think of for Patterson would be R. White. White is 6', 210 so he's not as big as Patterson. I think his build is most similar to him though. White also has a great deal of lower body build but not many realize it IMO. I think Patterson is the more explosive athlete but White also has a ton of speed in his own right.

 
i looked at source for patterson that said 6'3" 205... if he is 220 (he does look bigger than green, though green is i think listed 1" taller?), than that fits 6'3" 220 julio, used as hypothetical upper bound comp above...

wow, differences in height at different sites...

green either 6'4" or 6'3" (i think former), jones 6'3" or 6'2" (again, i think former)... but weights were pretty similar...

but more common patterson measurements were 6'2" 215, so 5 lbs from 220, 10 lbs from 205, you were closer...

crabtree is i think about 6'1" 215, and i think of him as having pretty good, if not elite size (and fairly well put together)... that would be 1" shorter than patterson...

 
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My 1st impression (physically/body type) of Patterson wearing purple was that he looks like Adrian Peterson.

The Vikings don't seem to draft pure WR anymore, they just draft RB who play WR and more fullbacks. :D

 
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Bob Magaw said:
i looked at source for patterson that said 6'3" 205... if he is 220 (he does look bigger than green, though green is i think listed 1" taller?), than that fits 6'3" 220 julio, used as hypothetical upper bound comp above...
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Not sure about the size necessarily but I agree with your atypical body assessment in regards to athleticism.

Struggling to find a good comparison. Mike Wallace type speed. Harvin or Cobb elusiveness + quick twitch. Miles Austin physicality? Those are pieces but 1 player comparison doesn't seem to fit.

Ball skills I wouldn't no where to begin because of the rawness but the flashes of upside are there.

 
If you include draft position I think the best comps for Patterson are Chad Jackson and Darrius Heyward-Bey. That's as it relates to playing WR -- not as a returner.

 
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wdcrob said:
If you include draft position I think the best comps for Patterson are Chad Jackson and Darrius Heyward-Bey. That's as it relates to playing WR -- not as a returner.
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Roddy White pick 27 of the draft. Patterson, pick 29.

 
thanx, biabreakable, that was informative and educational...

like the writer of article, a key is to know when to emphasize some of the quantitative stuff, and when not... it is that sense of proportion, imo, that makes scouting as much of an art as a science, and would be difficult to reduce to an all encompassing formula... there are a lot of different ways to succeed...

the article made me think why baseball is different from football, and seemingly hard to find quantitative linkages with performance... i hadn't thought of it much before... i'ver heard some point out fact that there are just 16 regular season football games, so smaller sample group compared to 162 game baseball regular season... but another thought was that with nobody on base, if the batter hits a line drive to right field for a single, that is kind of an isolated event that primarily involves pitcher, batter, right fielder and first baseman... for the most part, for the other positions, they might as well have not been on field (except than batter could stretch single to bigger play :) )... that kind of play almost never happens in football... on run play, with the blocking and tackling, maybe all 22 players are involved... even if QB throws wild incomplete, it may have been because other receivers were covered...

* i tacked on below to above post, but it may have been buried... i wrote it before reading the excellent article you cited... it touches on some of the matters alluded to in article... like what if we switched resumes of green, jones and patterson (but maybe going out same years they actually did?), how might that have changed their draft pedigree... which in this kind of alternate, parallel take, might not be fixed and a constant, but could have been in part shaped by other factors...

a question that might be germane in attempting to drill down to matters more concerned with INTRINSIC value of patterson, green and jones...

maybe they would have been drafted in different places, repectively, if patterson had played several years at tennessee and not gone JUCO route... and green and jones each spent two years at JUCO level, leaving only one at georgia and alabama... and less time of higher level coaching, and opportunity to be in scouting limelight?

** nice out of the box thinking with a non-WR comp in peterson... and why not, for few reasons...

he is close size-wise (6'1" 217 lbs.?)... also, the WR he is replacing played a lot of RB in college and was used similarly (if not the rushing volume) in NFL, as many think patterson will be.

 
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FDC said:
Bob Magaw said:
i looked at source for patterson that said 6'3" 205... if he is 220 (he does look bigger than green, though green is i think listed 1" taller?), than that fits 6'3" 220 julio, used as hypothetical upper bound comp above...
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Not sure about the size necessarily but I agree with your atypical body assessment in regards to athleticism.

Struggling to find a good comparison. Mike Wallace type speed. Harvin or Cobb elusiveness + quick twitch. Miles Austin physicality? Those are pieces but 1 player comparison doesn't seem to fit.

Ball skills I wouldn't no where to begin because of the rawness but the flashes of upside are there.
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i like the multipronged skill set breakdown and analysis reflected in multi-comps invoked... that makes sense that it would be a good way to go about capturing the multi-faceted skill set and athletic versatility of prospect like patterson... hard to find one player that can do what patterson can (a reason harvin is invoked a lot, also because patterson was likely purposely drafted to replace his multiple skill set, with the team having had so much success with harvin)...

 
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FDC said:
Bob Magaw said:
i looked at source for patterson that said 6'3" 205... if he is 220 (he does look bigger than green, though green is i think listed 1" taller?), than that fits 6'3" 220 julio, used as hypothetical upper bound comp above...
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Not sure about the size necessarily but I agree with your atypical body assessment in regards to athleticism.

Struggling to find a good comparison. Mike Wallace type speed. Harvin or Cobb elusiveness + quick twitch. Miles Austin physicality? Those are pieces but 1 player comparison doesn't seem to fit.

Ball skills I wouldn't no where to begin because of the rawness but the flashes of upside are there.
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i sorta equate him to anquan boldin in body type and in-hand ball skills, though patterson has better measurable.

 
I have said this before, the main weakness in Patterson is his experience, the nuances and techniques of playing WR such as route running. He has shown he can catch the ball well enough at this stage, that is something else he will continue working on to get better.

These weaknesses are very coachable and Patterson, from listening to him talk, seems to be a good listener with a positive attitude towards doing whatever it takes to improve as a football player. He has tremendous examples of hard work ethic and professionalism to mentor him in Adrian Peterson and Greg Jennings.

Jennings while also very talented is known for the professionalism of his craft and as a leader. He is the perfect WR to help Patterson learn what it takes to be great in the NFL.

Patterson's physical abilities are amazing. His moves have moves. He is going to be a very dangerous player once he develops his craft as a route runner.

The team is very much a run 1st team and that is not going to change. Patterson a nightmare one on one for any defender. Lots of big play potential and possible high volume receptions as well.

As we already have seen with the square in routes, part of the plan is to use him mid range. The 15-20 yard area. The QBs do not need to be that good to complete many of the plays I think are going to be designed for him. Cassell can get that done if Ponder cannot.

I am not very happy with the otherwise somewhat walk through pace of the Viking offense particularly against the Bills. At the same time they had offensive linemen who are on the bubble playing early to see how they would do. Not well obviously in pass protection. Some of the plays almost made me wonder if they are trying to get Ponder injured already so they have an easy excuse to play Cassell. That could be on some of the players, or the coaches. The high snap may have been a designed surprise for all we know to see how Ponder reacts to that situation. He did the right thing and protected the ball.

I think we all wanted to see Ponder carry the offense more than he has without Peterson in there.

 
Everything is there from a height/weight/speed standpoint. He has the numbers that you want in a #1.

I found him to be a very difficult player to evaluate though. He has a somewhat different look to him than the other big receivers in the NFL. Hard to put into words, but the way he runs and cuts doesn't remind me of anyone else. He has kind of a leggy style and, for a player with good return skills, looks a bit jerky and awkward at times in some of his movement. He also had the worst 3 cone time of any major WR prospect in this draft. That drill is supposed to say something about a prospect's economy of movement and lateral agility, so his poor mark there is another strange data point that doesn't jive with his reputation as an elusive open field guy.

I'm intrigued by the workout numbers and the first round draft slot. I think big WRs who also have punt/kickoff return skills are usually a pretty good bet. I had a really hard time selling myself on Patterson though and didn't end up making any moves to get him. There are a lot of positives and I think he's one of the obvious guys in this draft with real standout potential. I just don't have the same degree of confidence that I did in guys like Dez, Demaryius, and Harvin. :shrug:

 
I'm staying away from Patterson this year. There is a lot that I desire from a three cone drill that I just don't see with him.

 
In terms of fantasy impact, I see this playing out a bit like Randall Cobb - he always had game breaking potential in his rookie year but he started off returning punts/kicks and not being usable in fantasy as a wide receiver. I do think Patterson will have more touches/receptions in his first year than Cobb did, but it might be a year away till he explodes and then you will want to already own him.

 
RushHour said:
In terms of fantasy impact, I see this playing out a bit like Randall Cobb - he always had game breaking potential in his rookie year but he started off returning punts/kicks and not being usable in fantasy as a wide receiver. I do think Patterson will have more touches/receptions in his first year than Cobb did, but it might be a year away till he explodes and then you will want to already own him.
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Cobb had established starters ahead of him who kept him off the field and limited opportunities... the Vikings have one guy who is an established starter and he just joined the team this year too. I don't think this will play out like Cobb (his rookie year). Patterson should have opportunities early and often in the offense, not just special teams.

 
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Is Patterson even ahead of Simpson or Wright on the depth chart yet? I don't care how raw he is if those two keep him off the field it's a problem IMO.

 
jeffery began year as starter, but a couple variables are that he got hurt at some point, and cutler really locks on to marshall...

if patterson can avoid injury, that could yield a different result...

not sure if ponder (if he remains starter, or cassell) will lock on to anybody, jennings first year... simpson missed first three games due to suspension and was hurt when he came back, so this is somewhat indeterminate and speculative... we do know harvin got thrown to a ton (first half of season, he was on MVP-type pace, could have been something like 100+ receptions, 1,300+ yards, 10+ TDs... not that we should assume patterson will just slot in to an identical role, but that kind of 2012 usage for the role he is expected to replace is suggestive and promising)...

* though found below in faust's preseason news thread, stating jenning inherits "harvin" role... that could complicate patterson's rookie projection, potentially... he could still do well, and could still get a lot of harvin-type short-intermediate passes, but sounds like it will be from outside if this is correct...

Vikings WRs coach George Stewart has noticed that Greg Jennings "still has juice."
Despite a quiet camp, the Vikings have been "impressed" by the practice performances of their $45 million man. "He's still got that burst, he's still got that ability to make plays after the catch, and he's still got great hands," head coach Leslie Frazier said. Jennings is playing Percy Harvin's old position, meaning he'll play flanker in two-wide sets and move into the slot on passing downs. He's a value pick in the eighth or ninth round.
 
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Yes Bob that is correct. Jennings will play the Z receiver (Harvins role in the offense) while Patterson is competing with Simpson at the X receiver.

I think some of this discussion may have been in another thread pertaining to Jennings, I will look for that and link to there if I find it. But I recall reading about how Patterson was used mostly at the 15-20 yard range for target depth and that is exactly what we saw the Vikings do with him in the 1st game.

I have not seen Ponder make those seam throws the way Cassell can. Not saying Ponder cannot do it, I just have not seen him do that much.

The Vikings will be getting Patterson the ball, but no do not expect the high volume receptions similar to Harvin, that is more likely going to be Greg Jennings, Jarius Wright getting those targets. I am sure Patterson will see some that as well and they will likely do some backfield motion/constraint plays with Patterson too, I just think they will use him differently than Harvin.

 
A bigger role for Cordarrelle Patterson?

By Ben Goessling | ESPN.com

EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. -- In his first two preseason games with the Vikings, wide receiver Cordarrelle Patterson has shown plenty of promise, returning his first kickoff 45 yards and catching a combined six passes for 73 yards. The first-round pick, though, has yet to catch a pass in a game from starting quarterback Christian Ponder.

That could finally change on Sunday night, when Ponder is scheduled to play into the third quarter of the Vikings' third preseason game against the San Francisco 49ers. Wide receiver Jarius Wright will stay home from the game after sustaining a concussion last Friday in Buffalo, even though he has been cleared to return. And with Wright out, Patterson could get more time with the Vikings' first-string offense on Sunday.

Offensive coordinator Bill Musgrave said on Thursday that the Vikings want to get "more turns" for their receivers with Ponder on Sunday night, and that probably means they'll use a deep rotation of wideouts while Ponder is in the game. It would be surprising, though, if they don't take a long look at how Patterson can handle a more prominent role in their offense.

He has shown a firmer grasp on the Vikings' playbook than many expected he would after just one year of major college football; coach Leslie Frazier said Patterson graded out with no mental errors in the Buffalo game, and Frazier added the Vikings haven't needed to simplify any of their plans for the receiver.

Patterson might step in as the Vikings' most explosive receiver and has shown how productive he can be on crossing routes early this preseason. If the Vikings feel comfortable enough to feature him early in the season -- and if he can develop enough of a connection with Ponder to hit on some big plays -- Patterson could have a significant effect on the team's ability to capitalize on the attention defenses pay to running back Adrian Peterson.

How Patterson works with Ponder will definitely be worth watching on Sunday night. The Vikings believe Patterson could be a star, but the next step in that process is connecting with the quarterback in an actual game. That makes Sunday an interesting test of what the receiver can do at this point.
Click to expand...
 
Biabreakable said:
I think some of this discussion may have been in another thread pertaining to Jennings, I will look for that and link to there if I find it. But I recall reading about how Patterson was used mostly at the 15-20 yard range for target depth and that is exactly what we saw the Vikings do with him in the 1st game.
Click to expand...
Here is that link- http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/04/tier1-wrs/

Was earlier in the thread. Nice graphs and things like that. :)

 
I'm still digging on Patterson. Put ADP in there drawing attention and hopefully Jennings is more than a shell of himself. That leaves Patterson in some space and this guy is dangerous in space. My league counts punt yardage so I'm starting him. QB quality taken into account Percy thrived in it-so will CD. it's like money in the bank (just a much higher return hopefully). Bank on it Brohan?

 
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FatmanLittleboy said:
I'm still digging on Patterson. Put ADP in there drawing attention and hopefully Jennings is more than a shell of himself. That leaves Patterson in some space and this guy is dangerous in space. My league counts punt yardage so I'm starting him. QB quality taken into account Percy thrived in it-so will CD. it's like money in the bank (just a much higher return hopefully). Bank on it Brohan?
Click to expand...
Patterson is returning kicks. But the punt return job is being led by Bobby Felder right now.

Q: Do you feel comfortable giving Bobby Felder a shot to win the number one punt return job?

A: He is getting a shot. He got a shot the other night, and he will get another one on Sunday. I feel comfortable giving him a shot. Marcus knows and Marcus is great about it. He knows he has to win the job. You know Marcus, and everyone in here knows Marcus, with his attitude and work ethic, as well as the adversity he has overcome. He always welcomes that challenge, and he’s got to go out and prove himself again.

Q: What was the coverage breakdown on the 34-yard return?

A: Our right gunner went inside and he got knocked down and wiped out our right guard and our right tackle. They were both on the ground. I tell our guys all the time that big returns happen because coverage guys are on the ground. We did not respond quickly enough, and Robert Blanton did a great job containing it, but he was on an island. He ended up missing the tackle but that was going to be tough against that 88 from Texas. Man can he run. I didn’t envy his position at all, but we have to do a better job of staying on our feet, do a better job of staying in our lanes, leverage squeezes and all of those things we constantly talk about.

Q: Besides Sherels and Felder, is anyone else getting a shot at punt returner?

A: I think Cordarrelle, we continue to work with him. Again, as I said in the beginning of camp, we don’t want to overload him. Right now, I think that would be a lot being the punt returner, kick returner, and he’s going to get a lot of time on offense obviously. So I think that he is back there, Josh Robinson is back there, continually working with him, but those two (Sherels and Felder) are the top two right now. I think Stephen Burton has improved as well. He took a couple reps in the Houston game.

http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/Frazier-Priefer-On-Position-Battles-Injuries-and-More/c1f908af-9f28-41f7-a16f-3be30d03f8f1
Click to expand...
He still may win the punt return job at some point, or be used situationally there if the Vikings need a big play.

 
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Thanks, Biabreakble. It's a salary cap league. Start 2 QB. I tend to invest the most money on QB and have scraps to spend at WR. If CD-P gets KR yards it's counted as negative points (15 yards for each return) plus any positve yards achieved. So he doesn't have as good a value if he's not punt returning.

That leaves me looking closer at KT-the rook in NE. Who is actually 20% cheaper. I really like having the punt return yards as it smooths out performance. I already have T.Y. Hilton but banking that 2nd cheap WR isn't easy. Maybe DJAX or T. Austin even Avant might work with Maclin out. Looking for that missing affordable piece to break out week one. Aren't we all?

 
JFS171 said:
The exception to his redraft value would be in return yardage leagues. This kid may be one of the best returners in the league on day 1, and if your scoring system rewards that enough, it may make him a lot more viable. In my leagues, on return value alone he's a speculative flex week to week.

That's where I'm most likely to take the plunge. In standard or even PPR leagues, he could frustrate a bit in redraft.

He's absolute dynamite with the ball in his hands though. I'd love to have him in a dynast -- very, VERY high ceiling player.
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Is he the de facto K/PR for the Viqueens though? His preseason usage surely doesn't imply it. I ask because I just joined my first "return" league and so I drafted T. Austin and Patterson both and I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy from Patterson.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
JFS171 said:
The exception to his redraft value would be in return yardage leagues. This kid may be one of the best returners in the league on day 1, and if your scoring system rewards that enough, it may make him a lot more viable. In my leagues, on return value alone he's a speculative flex week to week.

That's where I'm most likely to take the plunge. In standard or even PPR leagues, he could frustrate a bit in redraft.

He's absolute dynamite with the ball in his hands though. I'd love to have him in a dynast -- very, VERY high ceiling player.
Click to expand...
Is he the de facto K/PR for the Viqueens though? His preseason usage surely doesn't imply it. I ask because I just joined my first "return" league and so I drafted T. Austin and Patterson both and I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy from Patterson.
Click to expand...
The only way he isn't used on KO returns is if Min has big plans for him on offense IMO. I think it's a win win for you either way.
 
Rhythmdoctor said:
JFS171 said:
The exception to his redraft value would be in return yardage leagues. This kid may be one of the best returners in the league on day 1, and if your scoring system rewards that enough, it may make him a lot more viable. In my leagues, on return value alone he's a speculative flex week to week.

That's where I'm most likely to take the plunge. In standard or even PPR leagues, he could frustrate a bit in redraft.

He's absolute dynamite with the ball in his hands though. I'd love to have him in a dynast -- very, VERY high ceiling player.
Click to expand...
Is he the de facto K/PR for the Viqueens though? His preseason usage surely doesn't imply it. I ask because I just joined my first "return" league and so I drafted T. Austin and Patterson both and I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy from Patterson.
Click to expand...
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=682502&page=3#entry15853916

Patterson on kick returns not punts, Austin on punt returns not kicks. Or you could read 3 posts above yours.

 
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