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Le'Veon Bell

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Posturing aside, Steelers have to be thinking about how do we turn this around and win a SuperBowl, this year.  Conner may be great, but what happens if he tweaks a hamstring? If I'm the Steelers, I do a group hug and figure out how to use both.  Bell comes off the bench to start and then go from there. He's going to play elsewhere next year.  Zero question. Conner has earned a starting role.  But this year? Fresh legs + insurance wouldn't be bad for the playoff run.

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8 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Posturing aside, Steelers have to be thinking about how do we turn this around and win a SuperBowl, this year.  Conner may be great, but what happens if he tweaks a hamstring? If I'm the Steelers, I do a group hug and figure out how to use both.  Bell comes off the bench to start and then go from there. He's going to play elsewhere next year.  Zero question. Conner has earned a starting role.  But this year? Fresh legs + insurance wouldn't be bad for the playoff run.

I agree, but the real question is whether Bell wants to even risk getting hurt. The Dez injury won’t help matters

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5 minutes ago, FGITLOTR said:

I agree, but the real question is whether Bell wants to even risk getting hurt. The Dez injury won’t help matters

Won't hurt either.  I would bet with pretty high confidence that the Dez injury has no impact on whether or not Bell signs this year.

I mean, what are the chances Bell has decided to sign but then the Dez thing makes him change his mind?  I say zero.  

It's not like Bell has been oblivious to these kinds of injuries and needed out of shape Dez to remind him. 

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I thought Bell was going to show up for week #1 like he did last year.  When that didn't happen I thought the only logical thing from his POV would be sitting out until week #10 to ensure he accrued this season and got to the 3rd level tag so he could become a FA (the Steelers won't tag him for ~25M).  Now that it's clear accruing the season isn't necessary to get to the 3rd level tag the only logical thing from his POV is to not show up this year.

So I expect him to show up tomorrow ;) 

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22 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Won't hurt either.  I would bet with pretty high confidence that the Dez injury has no impact on whether or not Bell signs this year.

I mean, what are the chances Bell has decided to sign but then the Dez thing makes him change his mind?  I say zero.  

It's not like Bell has been oblivious to these kinds of injuries and needed out of shape Dez to remind him. 

recency bias. It at least will help cement his decision to sit out the remainder of the year. 

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I can’t wait until Tuesday, this is getting ridiculous 

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1 minute ago, Wrigley said:

I can’t wait until Tuesday, this is getting ridiculous 

he already made it. 100% he's not playing. I can't divulge anymore information. It's safe to drop him in redraft leagues. 

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Can't see ANY reason Bell would want to play a handful of games for a few bucks if the future contract is the goal.  The Dez injury should cement that thinking as if it weren't already a foregone conclusion..

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5 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Can't see ANY reason Bell would want to play a handful of games for a few bucks if the future contract is the goal.  The Dez injury should cement that thinking as if it weren't already a foregone conclusion..

Think I agree here. Bummer, hes one of my favorite guys to watch.

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1 hour ago, belljr said:

Not sure what you mean that was not the case before Bells actions about the tag levels.

That's exactly what the players wanted and got in the last CBA

The salary jump is because of the second and third tag from the CBA

Until a few days ago, the presumption was that if he didn’t sign the tag by 11/13, and if he were to be tagged again in 2019, he’d be tagged at the same level.  The players did not get this in the last CBA, and it’s not clearly stated one way or  the other (which is why it was being reported differently until recently).  The NFL and Steelers just recently announced that they will agree that the next tag will be the 3rd tag, irregardless of whether he actually plays under the 2nd tag.  

This is new info, because even those people who recognized the ambiguity of the CBA’s wording with regards to this ( @Hankmoody  , I think in this thread) believed the Steelers and the NFL would argue (likely in court) that he has to actually play under the 2nd tag to “move” up.  The NFL conceding this point, because of Bells actions, will have huge ramifications.  Every player knows that I’d they don’t want to play under the tag, they can sit out, and automatically get a larger salary the next year (in the event of another tag) or become a FA.  Teams will have to be even more careful about tagging players, because they will have to reserve the cap space to fit the player, but risk the player not showing at all, and effectively playing this year with a smaller cap, as the Steelers have had to do this year.  

The tag has been weakened as a bargaining tool for the teams, and the players have gained leverage in future situation, BECAUSE of Bell’s actions forcing the NFL to stipulate this point, without a court having to read/interpret the CBA.  

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

Until a few days ago, the presumption was that if he didn’t sign the tag by 11/13, and if he were to be tagged again in 2019, he’d be tagged at the same level.  The players did not get this in the last CBA, and it’s not clearly stated one way or  the other (which is why it was being reported differently until recently).  The NFL and Steelers just recently announced that they will agree that the next tag will be the 3rd tag, irregardless of whether he actually plays under the 2nd tag.  

This is new info, because even those people who recognized the ambiguity of the CBA’s wording with regards to this ( @Hankmoody  , I think in this thread) believed the Steelers and the NFL would argue (likely in court) that he has to actually play under the 2nd tag to “move” up.  The NFL conceding this point, because of Bells actions, will have huge ramifications.  Every player knows that I’d they don’t want to play under the tag, they can sit out, and automatically get a larger salary the next year (in the event of another tag) or become a FA.  Teams will have to be even more careful about tagging players, because they will have to reserve the cap space to fit the player, but risk the player not showing at all, and effectively playing this year with a smaller cap, as the Steelers have had to do this year.  

The tag has been weakened as a bargaining tool for the teams, and the players have gained leverage in future situation, BECAUSE of Bell’s actions forcing the NFL to stipulate this point, without a court having to read/interpret the CBA.  

As I noted back in September, the CBA is clear about tagging next year being a third tag (QB money) even if he doesn't play. The CBA specifically calls to attention the very situation. I don't believe anyone on any side is actually surprised; it has been gamesmanship. Bell was never likely to report, but the way he played it kept his options open. The success of his backup was an unexpected problem for his plan.

Edited by Futeki
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3 minutes ago, Futeki said:

As I noted back in September, the CBA is clear about tagging next year being a third tag (QB money) even if he doesn't play. The CBA specifically calls to attention the very situation. I don't believe anyone on any side is actually surprised; it has been gamesmanship. Bell was never likely to report, but the way he played it kept his options open. The success of his backup was an unexpected problem for his plan.

Yep. I just saw an article about this, can't find it again though. I was unaware of it as were most people, but it wasn't some big concession on the part of the NFL or the Steelers to say they wouldn't try to litigate it. It's spelled out explicitly in the CBA that whether he plays this year or not is irrelevant for purposes of the tag. The fact that random guys on a message board were unaware of it is one thing, but the fact that Bell and his agent were reportedly unaware of that fact until recently makes his decision to hold out like this all the more crazy. 

Bell's actions didn't force anything that's not already spelled out in the CBA. He didn't hold anyone or anything hostage because the Steelers chose to keep him rather than rescind the tag, and in the end, he saved the Steelers millions of dollars they can now use next year while having little to no impact on the team's performance. He's just the first player to take it that far and decide his next contract is more important than playing a season under the franchise tag, and there's probably a good reason why no one has done it before him. Sure, he could've gotten hurt during the season. He also could've gotten hurt training on his own while not getting paid. 

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2 hours ago, FGITLOTR said:

he already made it. 100% he's not playing. I can't divulge anymore information. It's safe to drop him in redraft leagues. 

FGITLOTR - How can you say this with %100 certainty??

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3 hours ago, FGITLOTR said:

I agree, but the real question is whether Bell wants to even risk getting hurt. The Dez injury won’t help matters

Flawed logic. Bell could have just as easily torn his ACL, MCL, or ruptured his Achilles playing pickup basketball in Pittsburgh. 

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Any chance he gets blacklisted to the point where he just retires?  By that I mean, which team/GM is going to be stupid enough to actually give him what he'd be willing to play for?  It's fun to think about as a fan of a RB needy team, but if I had to sign the checks I'd certainly be concerned that he'd just mail it in after getting paid. 

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18 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

And I think this is a VERY legitimate worry.   He is a good back so should be decent anywhere but I am not sure he is going to find an o-line and offensive scheme (and the number of touches) that he got with Pittsburgh.

Bell wants as much money with as few touches as possible.   He doesn't care about winning or he would have stayed with Pittsburgh.   He would be happy splitting carries.  

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On 11/9/2018 at 1:24 AM, tjnc09 said:

:lmao: 

Aside from he is obviously not a backup, entire quote spot on.. nailed it?

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9 hours ago, Tejas said:

Flawed logic. Bell could have just as easily torn his ACL, MCL, or ruptured his Achilles playing pickup basketball in Pittsburgh. 

The logic is sound.

The argument isn't that he can't get hurt any other way.  The logic is he is trying to minimize the likelihood.  Football is the most likely way for that to happen.  And I doubt the guy is playing pickup right now.

Edited by matuski

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

Bell wants as much money with as few touches as possible.   He doesn't care about winning or he would have stayed with Pittsburgh.   He would be happy splitting carries.  

I hope he doesn’t report... that being said, if he does, I look forward to people aww shucking again when this dude #####es about his workload when Conner is still the lead back. I will laugh and laugh, I promise everyone that. 

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I have hung onto this guy all year, but luckily I grabbed Conner as well. Selfishly I don''t want him to come back and screw up my FF playoffs.

That being said, I don't see a scenario where this ends well for Bell if he decides not to play this year. He needs a highlight tape to give future teams. Just saying, "Oh, look what I did two years ago and that was all me. Just ignore what Conner did this last year. I am not a product of the system.This was all because of MY talent," is just crazy thinking on his part.

I mean, let's not fool ourselves, sure there will be teams that will be interested in him, but not at the numbers he wants--those were only obtainable by putting together recent highlights. He could very well find himself in a one year, prove it contract on a terrible team and never sniff big money again. I think he really overplayed his cards here. 

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16 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

I have hung onto this guy all year, but luckily I grabbed Conner as well. Selfishly I don''t want him to come back and screw up my FF playoffs.

That being said, I don't see a scenario where this ends well for Bell if he decides not to play this year. He needs a highlight tape to give future teams. Just saying, "Oh, look what I did two years ago and that was all me. Just ignore what Conner did this last year. I am not a product of the system.This was all because of MY talent," is just crazy thinking on his part.

I mean, let's not fool ourselves, sure there will be teams that will be interested in him, but not at the numbers he wants--those were only obtainable by putting together recent highlights. He could very well find himself in a one year, prove it contract on a terrible team and never sniff big money again. I think he really overplayed his cards here. 

There is plenty of tape on Lev Bell. He doesn't need to play this year to show other teams what he has... everyone knows what he has. Its just, do they want to pay for it?

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4 minutes ago, shoecrew22 said:

There is plenty of tape on Lev Bell. He doesn't need to play this year to show other teams what he has... everyone knows what he has. Its just, do they want to pay for it?

I agree. We are not talking about some unknown talent here. Teams know exactly why he held out too. Bell will be fine next season.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

I have hung onto this guy all year, but luckily I grabbed Conner as well. Selfishly I don''t want him to come back and screw up my FF playoffs.

That being said, I don't see a scenario where this ends well for Bell if he decides not to play this year. He needs a highlight tape to give future teams. Just saying, "Oh, look what I did two years ago and that was all me. Just ignore what Conner did this last year. I am not a product of the system.This was all because of MY talent," is just crazy thinking on his part.

I mean, let's not fool ourselves, sure there will be teams that will be interested in him, but not at the numbers he wants--those were only obtainable by putting together recent highlights. He could very well find himself in a one year, prove it contract on a terrible team and never sniff big money again. I think he really overplayed his cards here. 

Have people become so mad at this guy that they are resorting to denying Bell's talent and position in the league as a top top offensive weapon?

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2 hours ago, shoecrew22 said:

There is plenty of tape on Lev Bell. He doesn't need to play this year to show other teams what he has... everyone knows what he has. Its just, do they want to pay for it?

All it takes is one dumb / rich owner to overpay for Bell.

It's a mortal lock that multiple teams will be willing to give him what he wants.

Unless he comes back next week and proceeds to tear his ACL.

I'd sure as hell stay away if I was him. 

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58 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

All it takes is one dumb / rich owner to overpay for Bell.

It's a mortal lock that multiple teams will be willing to give him what he wants.

Unless he comes back next week and proceeds to tear his ACL.

I'd sure as hell stay away if I was him. 

Now, definitely stay away.  At least right this moment it makes sense to stay away.  

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14 hours ago, Tejas said:

Flawed logic. Bell could have just as easily torn his ACL, MCL, or ruptured his Achilles playing pickup basketball in Pittsburgh. 

I believe he has some sort of insurance policy but yeah, that's dumb of him. I don't want him back at all this year. I'm already out of the running.

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That ACL tear sure cost Allen Robinson big last year, can certainly see why it makes sense to give up another $7M or so at a position were longevity and overall compensation is among the lowest in the league. 

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We have seen an over the hill DeAngelo Williams and now James Conner both put up numbers very comparable to Bell's when he has been out.  If I am every other team in the NFL, I am taking note of that.  Of course, Bell looks great on tape but so do these other guys.  If I can see that, I suspect that other teams will.  $17M per year when you can draft a JAG like Conner or sign an old and in the way guy like Williams and get the same results?  I think it is clear that the system is driving the RB success in Pittsburgh.  I am sure Bell is a very good player, but if Williams and Conner can replicate his numbers, he isn't that special.

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29 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

We have seen an over the hill DeAngelo Williams and now James Conner both put up numbers very comparable to Bell's when he has been out.  If I am every other team in the NFL, I am taking note of that.  Of course, Bell looks great on tape but so do these other guys.  If I can see that, I suspect that other teams will.  $17M per year when you can draft a JAG like Conner or sign an old and in the way guy like Williams and get the same results?  I think it is clear that the system is driving the RB success in Pittsburgh.  I am sure Bell is a very good player, but if Williams and Conner can replicate his numbers, he isn't that special.

Every other team should be concentrating on why any RB can produce there and trying to mimic it. This is the copycat league.

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4 hours ago, ChuckLiddell said:

We have seen an over the hill DeAngelo Williams and now James Conner both put up numbers very comparable to Bell's when he has been out.  If I am every other team in the NFL, I am taking note of that.  Of course, Bell looks great on tape but so do these other guys.  If I can see that, I suspect that other teams will.  $17M per year when you can draft a JAG like Conner or sign an old and in the way guy like Williams and get the same results?  I think it is clear that the system is driving the RB success in Pittsburgh.  I am sure Bell is a very good player, but if Williams and Conner can replicate his numbers, he isn't that special.

Would you say the same about Tom Brady?  His backups excelled also.

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23 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

Until a few days ago, the presumption was that if he didn’t sign the tag by 11/13, and if he were to be tagged again in 2019, he’d be tagged at the same level.  The players did not get this in the last CBA, and it’s not clearly stated one way or  the other (which is why it was being reported differently until recently).  The NFL and Steelers just recently announced that they will agree that the next tag will be the 3rd tag, irregardless of whether he actually plays under the 2nd tag.  

This is new info, because even those people who recognized the ambiguity of the CBA’s wording with regards to this ( @Hankmoody  , I think in this thread) believed the Steelers and the NFL would argue (likely in court) that he has to actually play under the 2nd tag to “move” up.  The NFL conceding this point, because of Bells actions, will have huge ramifications.  Every player knows that I’d they don’t want to play under the tag, they can sit out, and automatically get a larger salary the next year (in the event of another tag) or become a FA.  Teams will have to be even more careful about tagging players, because they will have to reserve the cap space to fit the player, but risk the player not showing at all, and effectively playing this year with a smaller cap, as the Steelers have had to do this year.  

The tag has been weakened as a bargaining tool for the teams, and the players have gained leverage in future situation, BECAUSE of Bell’s actions forcing the NFL to stipulate this point, without a court having to read/interpret the CBA.  

Bell didn’t change anything.   People that continued to argue that he had to play this season were wrong.  It is clear that it is the number of times tagged,  not seasons played.  Some sources mixed up the concept of accrued seasons with the franchise tag issue, but nothing has changed.  That’s why it’s not being challenged.

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This is remarkable. 

Whether you side with the team or with Bell on this, it’s undenaible that Bell & his agent butchered this one pretty badly.

i can’t even fathom what the goal was at this point.

He lost a bunch of money this season.

He’s somewhat radioactive for next season.

Maybe a team like the Colts backs up the Brinks truck for him,  but if I’m the Colts (or whichever) GM, I’m writing a bullet-proof incentive-laden contract that has 1000% team options/outs and 0% player options/outs because you already know Bell & his agent are willing to operate in bad faith. 

Coming in & playing the season out would have been his best move IMO. Show what he’s got - that he’s worth a mega-contract, and moreover that he’s a good teammate/locker room citizen. 

By not playing at all, he’s destroying any goodwill he could have otherwise built up, and likely turned off more than a few GMs who could have otherwise been competitive in vying for his services.

I’m just at a loss for how the Bell camp could possibly believe this season was a roadmap to success the way things played out.

IMO the success of Conner caused this to completely blew up in their face.

Like a guy with 2 hot wives, but one was like the girl in the 80s movies who was awkward & wore geeky glasses so no one could really tell how hot she was. Then on a bet or a dare, she cleaned up nicely & ended up being even hotter than the prom queen because she was easy going & fun to hang out with.

Bell is the #####y prom queen in this analogy, and Connor is the hot chick in disguise. 

Steelers are happier in the long run & Bell might not have a prom date when all’s said & done. 

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13 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

This is remarkable. 

Whether you side with the team or with Bell on this, it’s undenaible that Bell & his agent butchered this one pretty badly.

i can’t even fathom what the goal was at this point.

He lost a bunch of money this season.

He’s somewhat radioactive for next season.

Maybe a team like the Colts backs up the Brinks truck for him,  but if I’m the Colts (or whichever) GM, I’m writing a bullet-proof incentive-laden contract that has 1000% team options/outs and 0% player options/outs because you already know Bell & his agent are willing to operate in bad faith. 

Coming in & playing the season out would have been his best move IMO. Show what he’s got - that he’s worth a mega-contract, and moreover that he’s a good teammate/locker room citizen. 

By not playing at all, he’s destroying any goodwill he could have otherwise built up, and likely turned off more than a few GMs who could have otherwise been competitive in vying for his services.

I’m just at a loss for how the Bell camp could possibly believe this season was a roadmap to success the way things played out.

IMO the success of Conner caused this to completely blew up in their face.

Like a guy with 2 hot wives, but one was like the girl in the 80s movies who was awkward & wore geeky glasses so no one could really tell how hot she was. Then on a bet or a dare, she cleaned up nicely & ended up being even hotter than the prom queen because she was easy going & fun to hang out with.

Bell is the #####y prom queen in this analogy, and Connor is the hot chick in disguise. 

Steelers are happier in the long run & Bell might not have a prom date when all’s said & done. 

Wow.  Completely disagree.  Bell didn’t want to play under the franchise tag; Bell didnt play under the franchise tag.  Bell wanted to get to FA healthy; Bell will, presumably get to FA healthy.  Bell wants to get a long term contract with big guarantees money, he will get one next off-season.  Sure, he lost the $14.5M in pay for this season, but he was willing to make that sacrifice to get the long-term deal.  He’s not radioactive and he hasn’t sacrificed any good will, except for with the Steelers; other teams won’t think twice about the fact that he refused to play for the Steelers under a second tag.  And other teams won’t say “Conner played great in Pitt, so we don’t won’t Bell.”  

This, somehow, played out well for both sides.   Bell got what he wanted, Pitt will have extra cap money next year, a complete pick on 2020, and a replacement for Bell that they know will allow their offense to remain successful.

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30 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

This is remarkable. 

Whether you side with the team or with Bell on this, it’s undenaible that Bell & his agent butchered this one pretty badly.

i can’t even fathom what the goal was at this point.

He lost a bunch of money this season.

He’s somewhat radioactive for next season.

Maybe a team like the Colts backs up the Brinks truck for him,  but if I’m the Colts (or whichever) GM, I’m writing a bullet-proof incentive-laden contract that has 1000% team options/outs and 0% player options/outs because you already know Bell & his agent are willing to operate in bad faith. 

Coming in & playing the season out would have been his best move IMO. Show what he’s got - that he’s worth a mega-contract, and moreover that he’s a good teammate/locker room citizen. 

By not playing at all, he’s destroying any goodwill he could have otherwise built up, and likely turned off more than a few GMs who could have otherwise been competitive in vying for his services.

I’m just at a loss for how the Bell camp could possibly believe this season was a roadmap to success the way things played out.

IMO the success of Conner caused this to completely blew up in their face.

Like a guy with 2 hot wives, but one was like the girl in the 80s movies who was awkward & wore geeky glasses so no one could really tell how hot she was. Then on a bet or a dare, she cleaned up nicely & ended up being even hotter than the prom queen because she was easy going & fun to hang out with.

Bell is the #####y prom queen in this analogy, and Connor is the hot chick in disguise. 

Steelers are happier in the long run & Bell might not have a prom date when all’s said & done. 

I always thought the prom queen was hotter in those movies. But didn’t have a chance with either one.

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13 hours ago, matuski said:

Aside from he is obviously not a backup, entire quote spot on.. nailed it?

:lmao: anytime you post in the Shark Pool people should do the exact opposite.  I've never seen someone so wrong.

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I really hope his next team is somebody like the Bills.  I :popcorn: all the Bell supporters with their new and exciting excuses as to why he looks like an out of shape JAG.

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5 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

:lmao: anytime you post in the Shark Pool people should do the exact opposite.  I've never seen someone so wrong.

You should check out my Sammy Watkins calls.  Stuff of legend.

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37 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

So does the whole $14.5 roll into 2019 cap space?

And is what I read earlier right that if PIT tries to tag him again it is either as a Transition, or at the QB level?

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13 minutes ago, matuski said:

And is what I read earlier right that if PIT tries to tag him again it is either as a Transition, or at the QB level?

They won’t tag him as transition; if they do & they don’t match an offer sheet he signs,  they get no compensation.  They won’t sign him at the QB level.  They’ll let him be a FA & get a 3rd round comp pick on 2020.

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4 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

Would you say the same about Tom Brady?  His backups excelled also.

Brady is one of the best professional athletes of our generation, but to some extent, yes.  Amazing coach, amazing team, and everyone who goes behind center in New England is awesome.  We will never know if we would have ever heard of Tom Bardy had he been drafted by the Browns.  I can pretty confidently say that we would never heard of Matt Cassel had he not played for New England.  Brady is suspended, Garroppolo is just as effective.  Garroppolo goes down, Jacoby Brissett steps right in and they barely miss a beat.  I am not trying to say Brady isnt awesome - that is obviously stupid, but I think it is very safe to say that he benefitted a whole lot from his situation.  Great confluence of elite talent in an elite situation.

I believe the same is true of Bell.  I think he is a really good player, but he benefitted a ton from his situation - just like an over the hill DeAngelo Williams, and a moderately regarded James Conner.  Those guys stepped in and produced essentially the same results as Bell and the Steelers didnt really miss a beat on offense.

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Had Bell in a dynasty on Yahoo.  

A guy offered Allen a few days ago, offer was still there.  Took it after the Schefter news broke.

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In my  redraft with 1 keeper (cant keep same keeper 2 years in a row) I offered Bell for Adams. Adams owner is out of playoff race basically and doesnt have an RB1 to speak of. He is considering

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