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Le'Veon Bell

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1 hour ago, Capella said:

Agents and Gms have relationships built on trust. You’re living in another world if you don’t think bell’s agent doesn’t know the bare minimum he’s going to get. 

Then I'm living in another world than you. I don't really think there is a ton of trust between agents and front offices.  Just an opinion. I'm sure there are some good relationships between agents and front offices but business is business and front offices answer to upper management and agents have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients. If you think these guys don't hold their cards close to vest than I'll gladly live in my world of reality. You can live in yours.

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Wondering if Bell will go for a fully guaranteed deal like Cousins, and if so what that could look like. 4 years 40 million fully guaranteed? Less total money but a nice amount guaranteed.  Bell is apparently all about the guarantee.  Could benefit both player and team.

Edited by ghostguy123

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4 hours ago, Capella said:

Bell’s agent already knows what money he is getting. There is an absolute guaranty he has received bare minimum numbers from the teams that are interested. 

Some of y’all are really out of touch here. 

Totally agree

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1 hour ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Then I'm living in another world than you. I don't really think there is a ton of trust between agents and front offices.  Just an opinion. I'm sure there are some good relationships between agents and front offices but business is business and front offices answer to upper management and agents have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients. If you think these guys don't hold their cards close to vest than I'll gladly live in my world of reality. You can live in yours.

I hope you aren’t this naive all the time. 

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6 minutes ago, Capella said:

I hope you aren’t this naive all the time. 

The other guy is right. Any communications between bell's agent and other NFL teams would be textbook tampering.

It may or may not be happening, but it's pretty unambiguous what it is.

Edited by davearm

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29 minutes ago, davearm said:

The other guy is right. Any communications between bell's agent and other NFL teams would be textbook tampering.

It may or may not be happening, but it's pretty unambiguous what it is.

Of course it’s tampering. :confused: 

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8 minutes ago, Capella said:

Of course it’s tampering. :confused: 

It wasn't clear at first if you were saying it wasn't tampering, or if you were saying teams and agents blatantly violate the rules.

You made reference to a rule change, which made it seem like the former.

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5 minutes ago, davearm said:

It wasn't clear at first if you were saying it wasn't tampering, or if you were saying teams and agents blatantly violate the rules.

You made reference to a rule change, which made it seem like the former.

I was just saying they actually changed the rules because there is so much tampering. 

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2 hours ago, Capella said:

I was just saying they actually changed the rules because there is so much tampering. 

I wouldn't equate the tampering that went on in the days before free agency opened with this Bell situation.

To me it's highly unlikely, borderline ridiculous to think that bell's agent is calling around the NFL, polling GMs on contact terms they'd extend to his client.

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2 minutes ago, davearm said:

I wouldn't equate the tampering that went on in the days before free agency opened with this Bell situation.

To me it's highly unlikely, borderline ridiculous to think that bell's agent is calling around the NFL, polling GMs on contact terms they'd extend to his client.

He may well not have called around the NFL, polled GMs... but I'm with Capella, the agent knows damn well what the market is.

There are a million + 1 ways for an agent to accomplish this without directly tampering.

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7 hours ago, infantsam said:

Good point.

 

But only for year 2018 right?  The weekly amount was not super contentious I think?  More about how many weeks do I get even if I am out?

Yes, after the July deadline passed, they couldn’t do a long term deal, but they were allowed to go above the $14.5M for this year.

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7 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Wondering if Bell will go for a fully guaranteed deal like Cousins, and if so what that could look like. 4 years 40 million fully guaranteed? Less total money but a nice amount guaranteed.  Bell is apparently all about the guarantee.  Could benefit both player and team.

I tried to throw some numbers out there to move the discussion forward but people just want to go back and forth with the same arguments page after page.

Even if its all guaranteed, I suspect Bell wants more than 10M annually.  I can't help thinking he sees himself as valuable as any other back in the league.  My guess is he wants 4 years for 52M.

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Just saw an article about Alex Smith’s leg and that it explains, to a large extent, why Bell sat. But then I thought (and this must have come up in the past 148 pages), isn’t there insurance for that kind of thing? What was stopping Bell from playing this year, squeaking by on $10milion until he hit free agency, but backing up his investment with a comprehensive policy? What would that have cost, under a half mil, I’d guess (the odds of sustaining a career ending or even contract-damaging injury feels under 20:1)? And how much did he cost himself in free agency by his decision? I’m guessing way, way more than a policy would cost plus he misses out on a chance for a run at a ring. Seems ill-advised.

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20 hours ago, Capella said:

You have absolutely no way of knowing this. 

Correct.  Bell could have sustained a career ending injury, or he could have led the league in rushing and been Super Bowl MVP, most likely he would have had a typical LeVeon Bell year.

Anyway you slice it he would be $14.5 million richer right now.

 

 

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1 hour ago, pecorino said:

Just saw an article about Alex Smith’s leg and that it explains, to a large extent, why Bell sat. But then I thought (and this must have come up in the past 148 pages), isn’t there insurance for that kind of thing? What was stopping Bell from playing this year, squeaking by on $10milion until he hit free agency, but backing up his investment with a comprehensive policy? What would that have cost, under a half mil, I’d guess (the odds of sustaining a career ending or even contract-damaging injury feels under 20:1)? And how much did he cost himself in free agency by his decision? I’m guessing way, way more than a policy would cost plus he misses out on a chance for a run at a ring. Seems ill-advised.

I don't think the #'s are anywhere close to what you're suggesting. I'm only guessing but would think insuring 50M or more in earnings would cost way more than 1/2M to insure.  He prob figured it wasn't worth knocking that cost off the 14 M to play this year.

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

Correct.  Bell could have sustained a career ending injury, or he could have led the league in rushing and been Super Bowl MVP, most likely he would have had a typical LeVeon Bell year.

Anyway you slice it he would be $14.5 million richer right now.

 

 

And in early March, he expects to be significantly more than $14.5M richer.

If you would have put that much larger payday at risk by playing, that's perfectly understandable.  He chose not to, and that's perfectly understandable too.

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3 minutes ago, davearm said:

And in early March, he expects to be significantly more than $14.5M richer.

If you would have put that much larger payday at risk by playing, that's perfectly understandable.  He chose not to, and that's perfectly understandable too.

Agreed but then I don't understand why Bell was reportedly willing to if the Steelers agreed to not use the transition tag on him in 2019.   Why risk injury when you're going to get paid anyway?

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20 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Then I'm living in another world than you. I don't really think there is a ton of trust between agents and front offices.  Just an opinion. I'm sure there are some good relationships between agents and front offices but business is business and front offices answer to upper management and agents have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients. If you think these guys don't hold their cards close to vest than I'll gladly live in my world of reality. You can live in yours.

Don't you think it would benefit both the agent and the GM(s) to interact in an upfront and non-adversarial manner? Keeping up good relations and building trust is a huge part of "business".

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18 hours ago, davearm said:

The other guy is right. Any communications between bell's agent and other NFL teams would be textbook tampering.

It may or may not be happening, but it's pretty unambiguous what it is.

Bell is not under contract.

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Just now, davearm said:

So?  He is not a free agent.  The Steelers have exclusive negotiating rights.

I'll admit it's surely a grey area and I can't speak competently enough to comment further - but I would imagine "conversations" are taking place.

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'll admit it's surely a grey area and I can't speak competently enough to comment further - but I would imagine "conversations" are taking place.

There's no gray area whatsoever.  Bell and his agent can't discuss contract terms with other teams, period.

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3 minutes ago, davearm said:

There's no gray area whatsoever.  Bell and his agent can't discuss contract terms with other teams, period.

Anyone think that discussions are not happening? 

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Just now, apalmer said:

Bell never dropped a pass?

I am willing to concede that Bell is the better receiver but Conner is essentially a rookie -- he will improve.   I also think his running style fits this Steelers team better than Bell and Conner is MUCH cheaper.   

Barring injury to Conner I think the Steelers did quite well with the whole LeVeon Bell situation.  Hopefully it turns out well for Bell next season -- I have no malice towards him.

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The Jets would be great... I fully endorse this particular rumor. No interference with other RB stocks I own (SF & Philly) and minimal competition for touches. 

 

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2 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

I am willing to concede that Bell is the better receiver but Conner is essentially a rookie -- he will improve.   I also think his running style fits this Steelers team better than Bell and Conner is MUCH cheaper.   

Barring injury to Conner I think the Steelers did quite well with the whole LeVeon Bell situation.  Hopefully it turns out well for Bell next season -- I have no malice towards him.

I posted earlier that this was a situation where I feel both sides won.  That was before the reports yesterday that Pitt would use the transition tag.  Assuming they use the tag & match a offer sheet, I'd have to re-think that.  The Steelers' players' behavior last wednesday seems to be a crossing of the rubicon.  I don't see how Bell could fit in that locker room next year.  Assuming they do intend to use the transition tag, if they don't match an offer sheet and get no compensation, or they do match and Bell has to come back to those teammates, I don't think it's as much of a win for either side.  What do you think?

ETA-Bell is a better receiver, but Conner (the drop yesterday not withstanding) has been impressive in that facet this year.

Edited by Bayhawks

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2 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

The Jets would be great... I fully endorse this particular rumor. No interference with other RB stocks I own (SF & Philly) and minimal competition for touches. 

 

Jets would be ok but Indy would be incredible.

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3 hours ago, davearm said:

There's no gray area whatsoever.  Bell and his agent can't discuss contract terms with other teams, period.

Come on man.  You are being intentionally obtuse at this point.

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2 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

I am willing to concede that Bell is the better receiver

I love this... very big of you.  :lol:

Good to see Bell haters digging deep to find the kindness in their hearts to "concede" Bell is better than Conner at... anything.  

Edited by matuski

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3 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Anyone think that discussions are not happening? 

I truly don't think so in the slightest bit.

 

I think had that been the case Bell might have garnered more interest in the trade market, or any interest.  Idea being if a team had an inclination they would be able to reach a long term deal with him they would have acquired him now. Granted that costs draft pick capital they won't have to use if they sign him as UFA but that's weighed vs fact he'd have helped a team now and something to be said for trying out the product before making a multi year investment.  That's just one reason I don't think discussions have or are taking place.

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14 minutes ago, matuski said:

I love this... very big of you.  :lol:

Good to see Bell haters digging deep to find the kindness in their hearts to "concede" Bell is better than Conner at... anything.  

But Bell's YPC this year is 0.0. That proves that Bell is terrible and that Conner is going to the HOF. End of discussion. 

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 Bell blows away Conner as a receiver, not close and not as close as stats even would make it look as I do believe teams defend Conner differently then they would Bell. I don't view Bell as an elite rusher, very good but not elite. But as a pass catcher he is elite, not as dynamic an athlete as Barkley or LT but as good a route runner at the RB position as I've seen.  I would both say that Bell is one of the most complete and versatile RB's I've seen in the last 20 years but also that he is NOT a generational type talent as I often see getting thrown around with him. But that's getting off subject. I just think to be a generational type talent at RB you need to be a great runner, not simply really good.

Edited by menobrown

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52 minutes ago, matuski said:

Come on man.  You are being intentionally obtuse at this point.

How so?

I have been very intentional that I don't know what is or isn't being discussed behind the scenes.

What I do know is that what was suggested would be textbook tampering.

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3 hours ago, Flying Elvis said:

The Jets would be great... I fully endorse this particular rumor. No interference with other RB stocks I own (SF & Philly) and minimal competition for touches. 

 

I'm guessing NYJ or PIT. We know (by his actions) that Bell only wants to get paid... no interest in competing for a Super Bowl... NYJ have the most $$$ to spend and no worries about having to play more than 16 games, especially if they invest all their money in a RB with that many miles on him.

I can't see any other team being able to pay him what he thinks he's worth, so I believe there's a 50/50 chance that he's a Steeler again in 2019 (at a lower price than offered in 2017).

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1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

I posted earlier that this was a situation where I feel both sides won.  That was before the reports yesterday that Pitt would use the transition tag.  Assuming they use the tag & match a offer sheet, I'd have to re-think that.  The Steelers' players' behavior last wednesday seems to be a crossing of the rubicon.  I don't see how Bell could fit in that locker room next year.  Assuming they do intend to use the transition tag, if they don't match an offer sheet and get no compensation, or they do match and Bell has to come back to those teammates, I don't think it's as much of a win for either side.  What do you think?

ETA-Bell is a better receiver, but Conner (the drop yesterday not withstanding) has been impressive in that facet this year.

Local reporters were saying the players were just having a bit of fun with it.   I guess if he came back it would depend on what transpires between now and then.   

I think the Steelers are just holding their cards and will keep all options open and make the decision after the season.  

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8 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Local reporters were saying the players were just having a bit of fun with it.   I guess if he came back it would depend on what transpires between now and then.   

I think the Steelers are just holding their cards and will keep all options open and make the decision after the season.  

I saw the reports, but I also saw the videos, and I'm sure Bell did too.  The situation was already bad, IMO, but that made it even worse, I'd think.  Won't matter if Bell isn't back, but the application of the transition tag could change that.

I understand the idea of applying the tag to try to maximize what they can get in compensation, but everything I can find leads me to believe that IF Pitt applies the transition tag, and declines to match an offer sheet, they get nothing.  From what I understand, the application of the tag would be for the purpose of extracting a pick from the team making the offer to Bell; i.e.-"give us a 3rd rounder, or we'll match the offer sheet."  However, that strategy could backfire if the other team refuses to give up the pick.  Pitt either has to admit their bluff and loses any compensation for Bell, or sign the offer sheet and spend a big chunk of money on a RB who they intended to use in the passing game and as a backup. 

If they don't transition him, they get an extra $14.5 in cap rolled over to 2019, have a very good RB for very cheap, and get a (likely) 3rd round pick in 2020.  If they apply the tag, they have to find a team willing to give up a pick AND give Bell a big deal, or risk being stuck with a back-up RB/slot receiver making big money, who very well could cause locker-room issues.

Applying the transition tag seems like a stupid decision that could mess up what turned out to be a very good outcome (thus far) for Pitt.

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On 11/16/2018 at 11:20 AM, eoMMan said:

:lmao:

Good thing I didn't make the bet, because I was wrong, according to recent reports that he'd have been a receiver/back-up to Conner if he returned.:bag:

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3 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

I saw the reports, but I also saw the videos, and I'm sure Bell did too.  The situation was already bad, IMO, but that made it even worse, I'd think.  Won't matter if Bell isn't back, but the application of the transition tag could change that.

I understand the idea of applying the tag to try to maximize what they can get in compensation, but everything I can find leads me to believe that IF Pitt applies the transition tag, and declines to match an offer sheet, they get nothing.  From what I understand, the application of the tag would be for the purpose of extracting a pick from the team making the offer to Bell; i.e.-"give us a 3rd rounder, or we'll match the offer sheet."  However, that strategy could backfire if the other team refuses to give up the pick.  Pitt either has to admit their bluff and loses any compensation for Bell, or sign the offer sheet and spend a big chunk of money on a RB who they intended to use in the passing game and as a backup. 

If they don't transition him, they get an extra $14.5 in cap rolled over to 2019, have a very good RB for very cheap, and get a (likely) 3rd round pick in 2020.  If they apply the tag, they have to find a team willing to give up a pick AND give Bell a big deal, or risk being stuck with a back-up RB/slot receiver making big money, who very well could cause locker-room issues.

Applying the transition tag seems like a stupid decision that could mess up what turned out to be a very good outcome (thus far) for Pitt.

Again, the Steelers don't need to do anything now so they're just keeping all options available.    It would be pretty dumb of them to commit to not using the tag on Bell in 2019 if Conner would sustain a serious injury in 2018.

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3 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Again, the Steelers don't need to do anything now so they're just keeping all options available.    It would be pretty dumb of them to commit to not using the tag on Bell in 2019 if Conner would sustain a serious injury in 2018.

Agreed; I was just pondering what would happen if they did use the tag.

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12 hours ago, Tool said:

I don't think the #'s are anywhere close to what you're suggesting. I'm only guessing but would think insuring 50M or more in earnings would cost way more than 1/2M to insure.  He prob figured it wasn't worth knocking that cost off the 14 M to play this year.

Ok, then, call it a $5mill insurance policy. He plays this year and makes $14 million but pays $5M for insurance. If he gets injured, he limps away with $50 million. He doesn’t get injured and he gets a better deal in free agency (assuming he plays well) and isn’t remembered as a D-bag with a long shot of getting a ring. Legacy means something, Steeler legacy means a little more, imo, and he blew it with this decision.

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13 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Anyone think that discussions are not happening? 

Yes there are multiple hilariously naive people here. 

“But there are rules in place!”

Edited by Capella
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13 hours ago, davearm said:

There's no gray area whatsoever.  Bell and his agent can't discuss contract terms with other teams, period.

:lmao: you drive 35 in a 40

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