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Le'Veon Bell

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11 hours ago, Steeler said:

The Steelers didn't low ball Bell, they just couldn't agree on a contract.  Are you saying the Steelers should have given Bell 17M per year like he wanted? 

Apparently there are some people that think if you don't meet the demands of the player then the team is screwing him.  The truth is that both sides were negotiating and couldn't come to an agreement.   There was no bad guy in this situation and really both parties were hurt by the fact that they didn't work out a deal.  

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2 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

So what is the timeline on Bell this year? When does all this start to go down?

The Steelers must decide by March 5 whether to apply the franchise or transition tag to Bell.  

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2 hours ago, Gandalf said:

So what is the timeline on Bell this year? When does all this start to go down?

As Godsbrother mentioned the deadline is March 5, but the process opens up a week from today.  2/19-3/5 is when teams can transition/franchise tag players.

March 5th is also the day after the combine.

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Anybody think that the Hunt signing actually frees up the market just a bit for Bell? Hunt didn't go to a running back hungry team. In theory, this means that one more team is added to the mix when you think about it (assuming a running back hungry team would have signed Hunt).   

Edited by rockaction

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51 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Anybody think that the Hunt signing actually frees up the market just a bit for Bell? Hunt didn't go to a running back hungry team. In theory, this means that one more team is added to the mix when you think about it (assuming a running back hungry team would have signed Hunt). .  

That’s a great point. It’s more potential starting RB spot for Bell to occupy 

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56 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Anybody think that the Hunt signing actually frees up the market just a bit for Bell? Hunt didn't go to a running back hungry team. In theory, this means that one more team is added to the mix when you think about it (assuming a running back hungry team would have signed Hunt). .  

I actually took it as another sign of how little teams value RB.

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

I actually took it as another sign of how little teams value RB.

That's also a way to look at it, and a fair point. But Hunt's salary is nothing, and I think that factors into it. I'm not saying this means somebody is going to break the bank for Bell, it just means that he has one more theoretical suitor given the assumption somebody would have signed Hunt.  

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8 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I actually took it as another sign of how little teams value RB.

I think Hunt signing with Cleveland might be more his doing. Return home. Stay out of trouble. Etc. 

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That's also a way to look at it, and a fair point. But Hunt's salary is nothing, and I think that factors into it. I'm not saying this means somebody is going to break the bank for Bell, it just means that he has one more theoretical suitor given the assumption somebody would have signed Hunt.  

The bolded is why I commented that it's a sign of how little teams value RB. Because if you had a need at RB you could have in theory filled that need with a proven young player for cheap. Obvious reasons why some teams passed, but if he was not a RB I think he'd have had more interest.

But one thing I thought about Hunt a week or so ago, and really was mulling this over when I was thinking of Bears interest and what they might do with Howard if they had signed Hunt. But a problem that I felt Hunt might face is teams that have immediate need at RB don't have luxury of waiting for his suspension to end or are able to plan properly when they don't know length of that suspension yet.

 

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Just now, menobrown said:

The bolded is why I commented that it's a sign of how little teams value RB. Because if you had a need at RB you could have in theory filled that need with a proven young player for cheap. Obvious reasons why some teams passed, but if he was not a RB I think he'd have had more interest.

But one thing I thought about Hunt a week or so ago, and really was mulling this over when I was thinking of Bears interest and what they might do with Howard if they had signed Hunt. But a problem that I felt Hunt might face is teams that have immediate need at RB don't have luxury of waiting for his suspension to end or are able to plan properly when they don't know length of that suspension yet.

 

All good points, especially the italicized, but I think the kicking of the woman was really the main deterrent. I don't think you can overestimate that. 

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5 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

I think Hunt signing with Cleveland might be more his doing. Return home. Stay out of trouble. Etc. 

Might be right and financially he'll make as much money next year as he'd have made in 19/20 on his Chief contract plus gets to hit RFA.

Joe Banner was going around yesterday saying that Hunt made a mistake signing in Cleveland that he knew for sure other teams had interest in him.  I can see reasons why Hunt wanted to sign with Cleveland. But I doubt interest in him was rabid or anyone was willing to pay much more then Cleveland. I'm thinking he might have had similar offers, but would be surprised if he rejected anything substantially better.

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

All good points, especially the italicized, but I think the kicking of the woman was really the main deterrent. I don't think you can overestimate that. 

For sure on the bolded, without any doubt at all.

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The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports "all indications" are the Steelers plan to use the transition tag on free agent Le'Veon Bell.

Yikes. The first day the Steelers can apply the tag is next Tuesday. It is an almost stunning level of pettiness, but within the Steelers' rights via the collective bargaining agreement. Per reporter Gerry Dulac, under no circumstance would the Steelers consider actually keeping Bell. The scheme would also require Bell signing the tag. The Steelers' endgame would be: Getting Bell to sign the tag, matching an offer sheet from another team, and then trading Bell for compensation. It promises to be an acrimonious end to an exceedingly bitter feud.

SOURCE: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Feb 14, 2019, 6:40 PM

 

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7 hours ago, Faust said:

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports "all indications" are the Steelers plan to use the transition tag on free agent Le'Veon Bell.

Yikes. The first day the Steelers can apply the tag is next Tuesday. It is an almost stunning level of pettiness, but within the Steelers' rights via the collective bargaining agreement. Per reporter Gerry Dulac, under no circumstance would the Steelers consider actually keeping Bell. The scheme would also require Bell signing the tag. The Steelers' endgame would be: Getting Bell to sign the tag, matching an offer sheet from another team, and then trading Bell for compensation. It promises to be an acrimonious end to an exceedingly bitter feud.

So let's play this out.  The Steelers slap the transition tag on Bell and his tag value is applied to their cap.

The Steelers can then continue to try and work out a deal with Bell before FA starts.  Obviously very unlikely.

So FA starts and Bell receives an offer he is willing to take, presumably more than the Steelers have offered.

The Steelers can then:

A) Sign Bell and keep him.  Unlikely since it was more than the Steelers offered

B) Sign Bell and try to try to trade him.  Risky cause they are prohibited from trading him to the team that made the offer

C) Not match the offer and get nothing in compensation in 2020.

Oh and since Bell's tag value counts against the cap it could make it difficult to sign FAs that might actually help the team.

I really don't see much upside of this unless the Steelers think there are going to lots of bidders willing to part with trade picks -or- they feel that Bell's market value is less than what they've offered previously and they can get Bell at a discount.

Maybe things will work out but I just don't see it.    Just cut bait, use the added cap space to sign an impact FA, take the compensatory pick next year and move on.

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From what I have read, they are not prohibited from trading him to the team that made the offer but would need Bell's permission to do so. From post Gazette web site...

Under the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, they cannot trade Bell for at least one year to a team that submits an offer sheet. The exception is if Bell would agree to the trade. Again, though, that would rely on Bell’s cooperation.

Edited by JoeSteeler

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11 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

From what I have read, they are not prohibited from trading him to the team that made the offer but would need Bell's permission to do so. From post Gazette web site...

Under the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, they cannot trade Bell for at least one year to a team that submits an offer sheet. The exception is if Bell would agree to the trade. Again, though, that would rely on Bell’s cooperation.

Which means they are effectively not going to be able to trade him to a team that makes an offer.  Bell's agent should (if he hasn't already) let the Steelers know that Bell will not approve any trade (which is within his rights under the CBA) in that scenario.  If the Steelers are going to use every trick/loophole/detail of the CBA to their advantage, so should Bell.  

With that being said, the Steelers are left with using the transition tag, and being stuck with Bell for more than they want to pay OR losing Bell and getting no compensation, all while seeing their ability to sign players this off-season being severely hindered until a Bell deal is finalized.  Sounds like a great plan.

**ETA-they could tag Bell, match an offer, than trade him to a team that didn't make him an offer, but that seems highly unlikely; as any team that would trade for him could have made an offer while he was a FA without having to give up draft picks**

***2nd edit-just saw @Godsbrotherpost, re: "they feel that Bell's market value is less than what they've offered previously and they can get Bell at a discount."** 

This is interesting.  I'd love for this to be the final outcome, as I think Bell is a great player on a great team, with Pitt.  Maybe he'll be a great player elsewhere, maybe Pitt will be great without him, but those are unknowns.  The question remains though, is there too much bad blood between the Steelers and Bell, and Bell and his teammates (after their criticism of him last year) for this to be viable?  If they could work this out, AND manage to placate AB and bring him back, AND use the money they rolled over last-season to improve their D, that's the best possible outcome.  That's a lot of IF's, however.

Edited by Bayhawks

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The irony in this, if things play out the way things are trending, is that the $14.5 million in salary cap space that PIT will gain from Bell not playing last year will cover roughly 2/3 of the $21.1 million cap hit it will take to move on from Antonio Brown. Essentially, not having either player on the field will cost them an additional $6.6 million in cap space. While we still don't know how this will play out and who the Steelers will get to replace these two, I am pretty sure 15 other AFC teams would LOVE that the Steelers no longer had LB and AB and had to lose cap space in the process.

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3 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

I really don't see much upside...

Just cut bait.

I agree with your whole post, but especially this part. 

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2 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I am starting to side with Bell. This just seems really petty of the Steelers. I'd expect it from say Dan Snyder but not this organization. 

I've never faulted either side in this Steelers VS Bell situation - they simply couldn't come to an agreement on a long term contract and Bell didn't want to play for 14.5M last year.  However, this does seem petty of the Steelers because I can't see any logical conclusion that benefits them if they use the tag.

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Just let the man leave already and move on.  This team(ownership/management/coaching included) has become a dumpster fire.

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

The irony in this, if things play out the way things are trending, is that the $14.5 million in salary cap space that PIT will gain from Bell not playing last year will cover roughly 2/3 of the $21.1 million cap hit it will take to move on from Antonio Brown. Essentially, not having either player on the field will cost them an additional $6.6 million in cap space. While we still don't know how this will play out and who the Steelers will get to replace these two, I am pretty sure 15 other AFC teams would LOVE that the Steelers no longer had LB and AB and had to lose cap space in the process.

I agree though at this point the AB situation has gotten so toxic it is imperative that he be gone, regardless of the cap hit

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24 minutes ago, Steeler said:

I've never faulted either side in this Steelers VS Bell situation - they simply couldn't come to an agreement on a long term contract and Bell didn't want to play for 14.5M last year.  However, this does seem petty of the Steelers because I can't see any logical conclusion that benefits them if they use the tag.

It certainly appears that way but they have more information than we do.  That's not to say they won't screw this up but there might be a scenario that we aren't taking into account

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

It certainly appears that way but they have more information than we do.  That's not to say they won't screw this up but there might be a scenario that we aren't taking into account

Sure.  I hope there is some angle I cant see that makes this a good move for the Steelers but right now I don't see it.

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4 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

 

B) Sign Bell and try to try to trade him.  Risky cause they are prohibited from trading him to the team that made the offer

 

Wow I did not realize this part was true - if that's the case this strategy seems ridiculously risky.

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47 minutes ago, brewer said:

Just let the man leave already and move on.  This team(ownership/management/coaching included) has become a dumpster fire.

You know, I was just thinking that Mike Tomlin has probably done a way better job than he gets credit for, for keeping this from becoming a dumpster fire for this long. 

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3 minutes ago, travdogg said:

You know, I was just thinking that Mike Tomlin has probably done a way better job than he gets credit for, for keeping this from becoming a dumpster fire for this long. 

Disagree.  There are various reports of Tomlin allowing stars to skip practices and receive special treatment. 

The guy has a great regular season record but I don't think anyone would say that he won enough in the playoffs with the talent that he has had.  Did his treatment of star players affect that at all... I guess we will never really know, but it seems a fair question to ask.

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27 minutes ago, brewer said:

Disagree.  There are various reports of Tomlin allowing stars to skip practices and receive special treatment. 

The guy has a great regular season record but I don't think anyone would say that he won enough in the playoffs with the talent that he has had.  Did his treatment of star players affect that at all... I guess we will never really know, but it seems a fair question to ask.

None of that had anything to with the LeVeon Bell situation.  

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

None of that had anything to with the LeVeon Bell situation.  

Didn't it?  Bell wanted Brown's money and treatment.

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9 minutes ago, brewer said:

Didn't it?  Bell wanted Brown's money and treatment.

Tomlin has nothing to do with money and if you have any link on Bell complaining about Brown getting special treatment that he himself wasn't getting I would love to see it.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Steeler said:

Sure.  I hope there is some angle I cant see that makes this a good move for the Steelers but right now I don't see it.

 

 

7 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

B) Sign Bell and try to try to trade him.  Risky cause they are prohibited from trading him to the team that made the offer

 

Just spitballing here and it's whole other subject if this would even be the correct path if what I'm speculating was true(I don't think so) but one benefit/goal of this might be to have some say on where he does NOT go and in general it really complicates things for cap strapped teams to sign Bell knowing the Steelers have a week to match and that's a week of prime FA signing they'd have committed that cap space to Bell. As an example blocking him from Baltimore and tying up some of their cap space for a week.

 

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I

4 minutes ago, menobrown said:

 

 

Just spitballing here and it's whole other subject if this would even be the correct path if what I'm speculating was true(I don't think so) but one benefit/goal of this might be to have some say on where he does NOT go and in general it really complicates things for cap strapped teams to sign Bell knowing the Steelers have a week to match and that's a week of prime FA signing they'd have committed that cap space to Bell. As an example blocking him from Baltimore and tying up some of their cap space for a week.

 

I am not sure but my guess is if you apply the transition tag and then rescind it you will not receive the compensatory pick.  That's a pretty high price to pay to block him from the Ravens

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I am not sure but my guess is if you apply the transition tag and then rescind it you will not receive the compensatory pick.  That's a pretty high price to pay to block him from the Ravens

Yep - if they tag him the lose the compensatory pick. 

 

27 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Just spitballing here and it's whole other subject if this would even be the correct path if what I'm speculating was true(I don't think so) but one benefit/goal of this might be to have some say on where he does NOT go and in general it really complicates things for cap strapped teams to sign Bell knowing the Steelers have a week to match and that's a week of prime FA signing they'd have committed that cap space to Bell. As an example blocking him from Baltimore and tying up some of their cap space for a week.

I don't see how the transition tag ties up any team's cap space.  If a team offers a contract to Bell you would have to assume they would do it with/without the tag in place.  Without the tag, they would immediately use the cap space on acquiring Bell.  With the tag, you are saying the team would have to wait one week (to give the Steelers a chance to match) in order to get him on the roster?  The tag (at worst) causes the team to wait a week... it doesn't artificially tie up a teams cap at all because they are willing to spend the money on Bell.

Edited by Steeler
clarity

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On 2/11/2019 at 2:40 PM, Bayhawks said:

What is the "long-term benefit?"  That if a player signs with Pitt, the team will gladly employ them while they are underpaid, then use every tool at their disposal to squeeze every last drop of value out of the player, and the player be damned?

I get that what Pitt did what completely in accordance with the CBA (I've been reminded of it many times when I've said that Bell likely feels that Pittsburgh has screwed him over), but just because it aligns with the CBA, and makes smart sense for the team, doesn't make it right.  And, I see no benefit for Pitt, with regards to player negotiations, to come from this.

Do we really think a player is going to say "let's sign/re-sign with Pittsburgh; look at how they treated Bell?"  That's absurd.

And the idea that if they "make it easy" for Bell, they'll lose this imaginary benefit?  Do we really think a player is going to tell his agent "after Pitt used the franchise tag twice on Bell, they then used the transition tag on him; you have to get me on that team?"  Ridiculous.

Vintage Bayhawks..  absurd.... ridiculous...

Apparently, the Steelers will play it their way.

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11 hours ago, DropKick said:

Vintage Bayhawks..  absurd.... ridiculous...

Apparently, the Steelers will play it their way.

Yeah, it’s absurd to think NFL players will not think the way the Steelers have/will use the franchise/transition tag is a reason to sign there?

You really think an NFL FA is going to sign with Pitt vs a comparable offer from another team after seeing how Pitt is “weaponizing” (for lack of a better term) these tags?  Even a couple of the other posters in here who have disagreed with me about earlier dealings between Pitt & Bell are acknowledging that this seems petty of the Steelers.  But you do you, and keep pretending that this path will be somehow helpful for Pitt in future player dealings.

Edited by Bayhawks

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2 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

Yeah, it’s absurd to think NFL players will not think the way the Steelers have/will use the franchise/transition tag is a reason to sign there?

 

It is.  Every other team uses the tag also.  Not like that is a "steelers" thing.   Weaponizing?  Wow that is dumb.

Anyway, at this point I think it is fairly clear Bell screwed up not signing the tag last year.  I think he might get less than he would have gotten last year, and maybe less than the Steelers offered him before tagging him.  

Can't wait to see how it actually plays out.  I highly doubt the Steelers place any sort of tag on him.  Seems more like a fun story that someone cooked up during a boring time.

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21 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

I

I am not sure but my guess is if you apply the transition tag and then rescind it you will not receive the compensatory pick.  That's a pretty high price to pay to block him from the Ravens

 

 

 According to the two links below - the Steelers  can rescind the tag at any time making Bell  an UFA and  they would still be able to get a comp pick.  It doesn't matter if Bell signs an offer sheet or not.

Miami did this with Charles Clay in 2015 and Olivier Vernon in 2016. 

https://overthecap.com/comment-compensatory-picks-transition-tag/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/patriciatraina/2018/12/24/why-the-giants-should-use-the-transition-tag-and-not-the-franchise-tag-on-landon-collins/#3511ad1595be

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29 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

It is.  Every other team uses the tag also.  Not like that is a "steelers" thing.   Weaponizing?  Wow that is dumb.

Anyway, at this point I think it is fairly clear Bell screwed up not signing the tag last year.  I think he might get less than he would have gotten last year, and maybe less than the Steelers offered him before tagging him.  

Can't wait to see how it actually plays out.  I highly doubt the Steelers place any sort of tag on him.  Seems more like a fun story that someone cooked up during a boring time.

Wow, you don’t bother to read the whole thread?  IF the Steelers use the TRANSITION tag instead of the franchise tag, to inhibit what Bell would earn, AND are using the tag in order to control where he goes, they are using it as a “weapon,” rather than as a means of keeping him in Pitt.  It’s not the same as a team using either tag in a legitimate attempt to retain the services of that player.

And, players aren’t going to see the way Pitt used the tags (if they use tha transition tag as well) as a positive reason that they should sign there.  That is what dumb; believing that if Pitt “makes it easy” for Bell (but NOT using the transition tag), then Pitt will lose some benefit they’ve gained over other agents and players.

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I've disagreed with Bayhawks quite a bit in this thread but the Steelers using the transition on Bell now sure seems like nothing more than sour grapes to me.

The Steelers and Bell played chicken last year and in my opinion, both lost.  At this point, it would behoove the Steelers to just let him leave and move along.

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2 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

Wow, you don’t bother to read the whole thread?  IF the Steelers use the TRANSITION tag instead of the franchise tag, to inhibit what Bell would earn, AND are using the tag in order to control where he goes, they are using it as a “weapon,” rather than as a means of keeping him in Pitt.  It’s not the same as a team using either tag in a legitimate attempt to retain the services of that player.

And, players aren’t going to see the way Pitt used the tags (if they use tha transition tag as well) as a positive reason that they should sign there.  That is what dumb; believing that if Pitt “makes it easy” for Bell (but NOT using the transition tag), then Pitt will lose some benefit they’ve gained over other agents and players.

Speaking of not reading.  I said I don't think they will tag him this year.  If they do I might change my tune on that.  

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2 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Speaking of not reading.  I said I don't think they will tag him this year.  If they do I might change my tune on that.  

The whole sub-topic of the thread that you jumped in on was with regards to if they did use the transition tag on Bell.

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25 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

The whole sub-topic of the thread that you jumped in on was with regards to if they did use the transition tag on Bell.

I quoted your comment about how the Steelers have used the tag in the past and will use it in the future.  I dont think they will use it on Bell right now.  You seem to assume they will, and assume future FA's are going to care about a current rumor that wont happen?

Carry on. 

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58 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I quoted your comment about how the Steelers have used the tag in the past and will use it in the future.  I dont think they will use it on Bell right now.  You seem to assume they will, and assume future FA's are going to care about a current rumor that wont happen?

Carry on. 

Which goes back to actually reading the thread, or at least the series of posts making up this conversation.   If you go further back, you’d see that I don’t think they’ll use the tag either.  My post that you quoted was in response to another who said that the only thing the Steelers gained from the Bell situation was the “positive benefit” gained with other players & agents & they had to “go all the way” (i.e.-tag him again) or they’d lose that benefit.

So, no, I don’t assume they’ll tag him and I don’t assume future FA’s will care about this rumor.  I was discussing a point brought up by another poster in this thread, which you’d know if you’d bothered to read the series of posts.

Carry on.

Edited by Bayhawks

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Steelers GM said today that the Steelers will not be tagging LeVeon Bell.   Bell looks to be headed for free agency, should be interesting to see what kind of offer he signs.

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

Steelers GM said today that the Steelers will not be tagging LeVeon Bell.   Bell looks to be headed for free agency, should be interesting to see what kind of offer he signs.

:yes:

Jeremy Fowler‏Verified account @JFowlerESPN 2h2 hours ago

Steelers are not tagging Le'Veon Bell, according to GM Kevin Colbert: "Le’Veon is still a great player. We can’t afford to use any other type of tags. Le’Veon will be an unrestricted free agent at the start of the new league year."

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5 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

I'll guess 3 year, $36M, $16M guaranteed.

Highest bidder will be:  J-E-T-S, Jets-Jets-Jets

From 

"Jason La Canfora

@JasonLaCanfora
Bell is Seeking a deal worth 50 million dollars in the first two years of the deal. Plenty of skepticism he will approach that number. Jets, Eagles, Bucs could be among the teams involved"

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2 minutes ago, moondog said:

From 

"Jason La Canfora

@JasonLaCanfora
Bell is Seeking a deal worth 50 million dollars in the first two years of the deal. Plenty of skepticism he will approach that number. Jets, Eagles, Bucs could be among the teams involved"

There should be a stronger word than "skepticism" about him approaching that number.

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