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Le'Veon Bell

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On 2/24/2019 at 2:13 PM, Edgar said:

It’s always been about (guaranteed) money. Le’Veon wants a team to break the bank to see what’s left in the tank. 

The optimist says he’s fresh. The pessimist says he’s rusty. We shall see. 

A couple other things to consider though:

How does he perform behind a not so stellar offensive line?

Have defenses caught up to his patient style? His ypc was down in 2017.

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8 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

A couple other things to consider though:

How does he perform behind a not so stellar offensive line?

Have defenses caught up to his patient style? His ypc was down in 2017.

Having watched a lot of Bell, I have no worries that if he wants to play football he will be very good. Talent was not in question and if you watch the way he runs, it is not just the offensive line. He’s really good

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Having watched a lot of Bell, I have no worries that if he wants to play football he will be very good. Talent was not in question and if you watch the way he runs, it is not just the offensive line. He’s really good

When he plays he puts it all out there. I don't doubt his passion or effort when he's on the field. He's also a team player, not self centered. Just greedy.

As a duel threat, among the best in the league. Great awareness. Pure physical ability, in the same conversation with DJ, and Chubb behind Elliot, Barkley, and Gurley.

I'm not calling him a bum. Just saying it's worth considering whether he continues the same dominance behind a different o-line and against defenses adjusting to his style, despite what we've seen him do in the past.

Edited by cloppbeast
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10 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

When he plays he puts it all out there. I don't doubt his passion or effort when he's on the field. He's also a team player, not self centered. Just greedy.

As a duel threat, among the best in the league. Great awareness. Pure physical ability, in the same conversation with DJ, and Chubb behind Elliot, Barkley, and Gurley.

I'm not calling him a bum. Just saying it's worth considering whether he continues the same dominance behind a different o-line and against defenses adjusting to his style, despite what we've seen him do in the past.

He’s going to get a massive workload so I think that it will all work out

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10 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

He’s going to get a massive workload so I think that it will all work out

That's only relevant in fantasy. I don't want a volume-dependent guy with a low success rate. 

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9 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

When he plays he puts it all out there. I don't doubt his passion or effort when he's on the field. He's also a team player, not self centered. Just greedy.

If we take him at his word that he wanted to avoid the wear and tear of getting heavily overused by a team that used the franchise tag on him without planning to resign him, and wanted to avoid having his body and brain damaged irreparably, and that he gave up millions of dollars he'll never recover, i don't think it's fair to call him greedy. 

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The Athletic's Connor Hughes reports the Jets, Eagles and Bucs are expected to be among the team interested in free agent Le'Veon Bell.

A "high-profile agent" told Hughes the Jets are "undeniably the favorite," but another source merely put them in the running. The Jets have been linked to Bell for quite some time. They have the cap space to make an overpay happen. They are reportedly also in the running for fellow free agent Tevin Coleman.

RELATED: 

New York Jets

, Philadelphia Eagles

, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

SOURCE: The Athletic

Mar 4, 2019, 12:53 PM

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I would prefer TB, Philly then the Jets. But I think Bell is so good landing spot is nearly meaningless 

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24 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

I would prefer TB, Philly then the Jets. But I think Bell is so good landing spot is nearly meaningless 

While I agree, OC might struggle to utilize him best., At TB,  Arians giving the OC keys to Leftwich is a big unknown IMO.  

Limited experience with such a talent might be a challenge for him to reach his full potential. 

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16 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

While I agree, OC might struggle to utilize him best., At TB,  Arians giving the OC keys to Leftwich is a big unknown IMO.  

Limited experience with such a talent might be a challenge for him to reach his full potential. 

Todd Haley couldnt screw it up. 

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Tampa has no cap space.  Like, none.  Maybe if they release a few guys in the next couple weeks.  They just tagged Donovan Smith as well at $14M.

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4 hours ago, Gandalf said:

I would prefer TB, Philly then the Jets. But I think Bell is so good landing spot is nearly meaningless 

David Johnson proved situation is huge last year. 

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

David Johnson proved situation is huge last year. 

For some. Not Bell. He’s a different species of RB.

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10 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

For some. Not Bell. He’s a different species of RB.

I don't know how anybody could say Bell is definitively better.  DJ has had a 400 point FF season. It doesn't get any better than that does it?

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11 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

For some. Not Bell. He’s a different species of RB.

Only thing is, this is based on him producing in a favorable situation: Ben, good o line, and Brown to attract defensive attention. He hasn't had to deal with what DJ did in 2018. So no data on the matter.

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11 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I don't know how anybody could say Bell is definitively better.  DJ has had a 400 point FF season. It doesn't get any better than that does it?

I’m talking about Bell’s running style. It should translate anywhere.

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4 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Only thing is, this is based on him producing in a favorable situation: Ben, good o line, and Brown to attract defensive attention. He hasn't had to deal with what DJ did in 2018. So no data on the matter.

Well it’s good Bell won’t be going to the 2018 Arizona team. I think he would have outproduced DJ if he was there though

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Gandalf said:

Well it’s good Bell won’t be going to the 2018 Arizona team. I think he would have outproduced DJ if he was there though

Well in fairness a lot of it wasn't Johnson's fault - they didn't throw him the ball which would also hurt Bell's production. I do think Bell is better than DJ, but they're close enough and the bottom line is the situation can either help or hurt a RBs production. A bad o-line or terrible play calling is tough to overcome no matter how great the back is.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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It'll be interesting to see how people feel after this year about who's better Bell or DJ. 

If Arizona drafts Murray then DJ is going to be in one of the best offensive situations in the NFL. Bell is going to chase the money (as he should) and most likely be in one of the worst situations in the NFL. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Well in fairness a lot of it wasn't Johnson's fault - they didn't throw him the ball which would also hurt Bell's production. I do think Bell is better than DJ, but they're close enough and the bottom line is the situation can either help or hurt a RBs production. A bad o-line or terrible play calling is tough to overcome no matter how great the back is.

Of course. I think the point I’m trying to push back on is that Bell was a product of the Steelers. I think the Steelers helped but he was really good. We just haven’t seen him in a while AND he’s a head case which turns people off, but man was he good at football

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22 minutes ago, Milkman said:

It'll be interesting to see how people feel after this year about who's better Bell or DJ. 

If Arizona drafts Murray then DJ is going to be in one of the best offensive situations in the NFL. Bell is going to chase the money (as he should) and most likely be in one of the worst situations in the NFL. 

 

 

For the record I think both are awesome. Not sure how this became the is bell better than DJ thread. Both are great.

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7 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

For the record I think both are awesome. Not sure how this became the is bell better than DJ thread. Both are great.

I agree both are awesome. It became that because you stated Bell will do great no matter where he goes. Basically you're saying Bell is significantly better than DJ. I don't see that and reading the tea leaves a bit here barring injury I'm seeing a career year for DJ next season. Bell is headed in the other direction though. No way he's on a better offense next year. 

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34 minutes ago, Milkman said:

It'll be interesting to see how people feel after this year about who's better Bell or DJ. 

If Arizona drafts Murray then DJ is going to be in one of the best offensive situations in the NFL. Bell is going to chase the money (as he should) and most likely be in one of the worst situations in the NFL. 

 

 

One of the best offensive situations in the nfl??That's crazy talk. Arizona has an awful roster and a rookie QB isn't coming in and making it one of the best offenses.

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15 hours ago, Gandalf said:

For some. Not Bell. He’s a different species of RB.

 

Agreed.  Most species of RBs would gladly take $14.5M to play for a year.

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My concern with Bell would be simple as a GM; I feel like he's a guy that gets paid and loses his motivation. The talent is undeniable, but I can't imagine a guy who is truly dedicated and loves the game so much that they would sit a year bc they were only making $15mm for the year. 

I get it, the guaranteed money, yada yada yada - but someone who really loves the game sitting an entire season in their prime while a member of a competitive team, while declining $15mm. I'd never be able to justify that investment. 

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12 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Agreed.  Most species of RBs would gladly take $14.5M to play for a year.

Haha yes he’s an idiot but to then make the leap that this means he is no longer good at football is conflating two issues

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5 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

My concern with Bell would be simple as a GM; I feel like he's a guy that gets paid and loses his motivation. The talent is undeniable, but I can't imagine a guy who is truly dedicated and loves the game so much that they would sit a year bc they were only making $15mm for the year. 

I get it, the guaranteed money, yada yada yada - but someone who really loves the game sitting an entire season in their prime while a member of a competitive team, while declining $15mm. I'd never be able to justify that investment. 

I think the team that signs him needs to be eyeing a Super Bowl. This signing would be all about having Le’Veon Bell during the playoffs and if I want to win and didn’t have a great RB, I would sign him.

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44 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

One of the best offensive situations in the nfl??That's crazy talk. Arizona has an awful roster and a rookie QB isn't coming in and making it one of the best offenses.

Oh yeah he is........Murray/DJ/Kirk/Fitzgerald....and a bad defense........watch. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Milkman said:

Oh yeah he is........Murray/DJ/Kirk/Fitzgerald....and a bad defense........watch. 

Undersized athletic QBs always worry me. 

ETA: Wilson is the only guy I can think of that can be mobile and avoid the contact. Younger athletic guys really need to take notes on his game. 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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7 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Undersized athletic QBs always worry me. 

This one's different buddy. He's Tyreek Hill with B+ quarterback skills. That's going open things up big time for DJ. 

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2 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

My concern with Bell would be simple as a GM; I feel like he's a guy that gets paid and loses his motivation. The talent is undeniable, but I can't imagine a guy who is truly dedicated and loves the game so much that they would sit a year bc they were only making $15mm for the year. 

I get it, the guaranteed money, yada yada yada - but someone who really loves the game sitting an entire season in their prime while a member of a competitive team, while declining $15mm. I'd never be able to justify that investment. 

This is one way to look at it, another way would be that a GM could feel like he's a guy that gets paid and wants to prove he's worth the money.  I can imagine a guy who is tired of being at a disadvantage because of the NFL's CBA using what little leverage he has under that CBA and coming back and playing great.

The thing is you might be right or I might be right.  But we won't know, because we aren't NFL GMs and we won't get to meet with Bell before offering him a contract to speak to him, conduct a "job interview," so to speak, and try to figure out which kind of guy he is.  We're just speculating, with nothing to base it on.  Whatever GM's do, or don't, offer him a deal WILL have a bit more to work with.

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6 minutes ago, Milkman said:

This one's different buddy. He's Tyreek Hill with B+ quarterback skills. That's going open things up big time for DJ. 

I'm not doubting his talent, I'm doubting his longevity. There is only one guy who has been undersized and used his legs a lot that hasn't been derailed by injuries that I can think of in recent years. 

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Just now, Bayhawks said:

This is one way to look at it, another way would be that a GM could feel like he's a guy that gets paid and wants to prove he's worth the money.  I can imagine a guy who is tired of being at a disadvantage because of the NFL's CBA using what little leverage he has under that CBA and coming back and playing great.

The thing is you might be right or I might be right.  But we won't know, because we aren't NFL GMs and we won't get to meet with Bell before offering him a contract to speak to him, conduct a "job interview," so to speak, and try to figure out which kind of guy he is.  We're just speculating, with nothing to base it on.  Whatever GM's do, or don't, offer him a deal WILL have a bit more to work with.

We're all speculating, but I feel I have some strong evidence to base my speculation on. 

If you really loved something, and someone offered you $15mm to do it for 17 weeks, would you? Now the number is only relevant to a specific comparison, and this comparison puts that number as the average of the top 3 in the field, so it isn't like the $15mm is lowball. 

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3 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I'm not doubting his talent, I'm doubting his longevity. There is only one guy who has been undersized and used his legs a lot that hasn't been derailed by injuries that I can think of in recent years. 

Yeah he doesn't take big hits. Slides to avoid contact all the time. I wish he would have ran the 40 at the combine. I think he would have ran in the 4.3s......

 

Anyway I'm done derailing the thread. Lol

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Posted (edited)
On 3/3/2019 at 7:19 PM, rockaction said:

If we had an emoji that danced, I'd use it right now. This is close.   

:clap:

No way do the Jets need this tip-toeing malcontent who is one puff away from a long, long suspension.

edit: actually it's 100% that this isn't accurate

Edited by Hankmoody

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44 minutes ago, Milkman said:

This one's different buddy. He's Tyreek Hill with B+ quarterback skills. That's going open things up big time for DJ. 

Not with that OL.

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6 minutes ago, Shawnky said:

Not with that OL.

Just remember you heard it here first lolol. 

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

This one's different buddy. He's Tyreek Hill with B+ quarterback skills. That's going open things up big time for DJ. 

That is exactly how I have been describing him too.

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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

We're all speculating, but I feel I have some strong evidence to base my speculation on. 

If you really loved something, and someone offered you $15mm to do it for 17 weeks, would you? Now the number is only relevant to a specific comparison, and this comparison puts that number as the average of the top 3 in the field, so it isn't like the $15mm is lowball. 

Not sure because it’s the opportunity cost. And what if I get hurt etc...

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5 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Not sure because it’s the opportunity cost. And what if I get hurt etc...

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

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4 hours ago, Milkman said:

It'll be interesting to see how people feel after this year about who's better Bell or DJ. 

If Arizona drafts Murray then DJ is going to be in one of the best offensive situations in the NFL. Bell is going to chase the money (as he should) and most likely be in one of the worst situations in the NFL. 

 

 

Except when Murray steals those 5 yard or less TDs that should go to the RB or the big redzone WR. I remember having Eddie George and watching McNair steal TD after TD. He had 12 rushing TDs last year and it's not like he's magically going to stop running.

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47 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Except when Murray steals those 5 yard or less TDs that should go to the RB or the big redzone WR. I remember having Eddie George and watching McNair steal TD after TD. He had 12 rushing TDs last year and it's not like he's magically going to stop running.

You actually think Murray will be used inside the 5 like a McNair or Cam?  He's not built like a linebacker or Tom Brady for that matter.

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3 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

We're all speculating, but I feel I have some strong evidence to base my speculation on. 

If you really loved something, and someone offered you $15mm to do it for 17 weeks, would you? Now the number is only relevant to a specific comparison, and this comparison puts that number as the average of the top 3 in the field, so it isn't like the $15mm is lowball. 

If you really loved something that was extremely dangerous, could greatly diminish your quality of life, could be taken away from you at any moment, was the only way you could provide for yourself and your family, was allowing your employer to make many times what you might be paid, and your only option (other than doing what you loved for less than you thought you were worth) was to not do it for a short period, knowing that you’re all but guaranteed to get that $15M at a later point,  wouldn’t you make that choice.  It remains to be seen what contract Bell will get, but I can guarantee he will get an offer for at least $15M.  So the argument that “if he loves the game, he wouldn’t have sat out, especially when he could have gotten $15M” is flawed.  He will get that $15M.  The sitting out was a business decision, not, not a passion/dedication decision.  

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2 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Two in the hand is worth two in the bush.  Do you really think Bell won’t get at least that $14.5M he would have made last year?

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If he played last year, he would have that 15 last year and 15 this year. Now he will only have it this year. Those are not the same thing. He now has to make 20 per year for 3 years just `to catch up.

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4 minutes ago, Catbird said:

If he played last year, he would have that 15 last year and 15 this year. Now he will only have it this year. Those are not the same thing. He now has to make 20 per year for 3 years just `to catch up.

Terribly flawed assessment. You have no way of knowing that.  Zero.  He logs another 400 carries last year and shreds his knee in the playoffs, he might be getting a contract with two million guaranteed this offseason.  

It’s a debate that’s pointless, unless he gets a bunch of #### offers of less than 15 million guaranteed this offseason (unlikely), because we’ll never know how it would have played out.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Shawnky said:

You actually think Murray will be used inside the 5 like a McNair or Cam?  He's not built like a linebacker or Tom Brady for that matter.

Not that he will be 'used'. Fake handoffs, then he will elect to run it himself instead of throwing it.

Edited by lod001

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1 hour ago, Catbird said:

If he played last year, he would have that 15 last year and 15 this year. Now he will only have it this year. Those are not the same thing. He now has to make 20 per year for 3 years just `to catch up.

Nobody said anything about “catching up.”  The premise was that “bell doesn’t love football, because if he did, he woulda even done it for $15M.”  It wasn’t an either/or situation; he will get that $15M on his next contract, guaranteed.  And he can love football.  Sitting out was the only option he had if he didn’t want to play on a 1 year deal.  And he doesn’t have to make $15M this year and next year.  You are assuming facts not in evidence.  We don’t know that he wouldn’t have blown out his knee, or (God forbid) have suffered an injury like Shaziers.  If a situation like that had happened & he was playing under a 1 year deal, the $15M was all he would have received.  

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13 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

Nobody said anything about “catching up.”  The premise was that “bell doesn’t love football, because if he did, he woulda even done it for $15M.”  It wasn’t an either/or situation; he will get that $15M on his next contract, guaranteed.  And he can love football.  Sitting out was the only option he had if he didn’t want to play on a 1 year deal.  And he doesn’t have to make $15M this year and next year.  You are assuming facts not in evidence.  We don’t know that he wouldn’t have blown out his knee, or (God forbid) have suffered an injury like Shaziers.  If a situation like that had happened & he was playing under a 1 year deal, the $15M was all he would have received.  

We can make this what if argument in circles until we're all blue in the face.

At what guaranteed dollar amount do you think he would need to obtain for this holdout to have been worth it? He punted $15mm and a year during his prime, that is the only fact in this equation. 

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6 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

We can make this what if argument in circles until we're all blue in the face.

At what guaranteed dollar amount do you think he would need to obtain for this holdout to have been worth it? He punted $15mm and a year during his prime, that is the only fact in this equation. 

If Bell blew out his Achilles in November like Dez did, what sort of contract would LeVeon be likely to get next week?

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