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Le'Veon Bell

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Judge Smails said:

This was always about the guaranteed money.  Steelers never guaranteed beyond year 1.  Bell can now plan his life around a minimum $35M.

When you look at guaranteed money and years I don't see how some are calling this same money Pittsburgh offered last year with only 1 year guaranteed.  Am I missing something?  Sounds to me like it was a smart move by Bell to sit out last year.

Edited by JohnnyU
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19 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Now the Jets will run him into the ground.  Playing for the Jets will not preserve his body or guarantee he will be able to walk later in life. If Bell is in as bad of shape as reported it will be interesting to see what kind of season he has. 

The steelers had just given bell historically high touch volume the first year he was on the franchise tag.

They offered him a deal with "guaranteed money" that he only received if he stayed on the team long enough.  

They then tagged him again and had no plans to resign him afterwards, and it was openly discussed that they would run him into the ground.  There was no incentive for the steelers to manage his touches except to keep him healthy for the playoffs.  

Not wanting to take that kind of workload doesn't mean bell can't handle any large workload. But the wear and tear impacts guys seriously - look at demarco murray in Dallas, philly and Tennessee in back to back to back years - and a year off probably helped his 2019 production and his post football career.  

The jets don't have any reason to force feed him 350 carries.  They might give him all he can handle, but they're invested in 29 year old and 30 year old leveon, too. 

I'm not saying he did the right thing or wrong thing, i'm just saying i understand it and might expect more RBs - like Gurley with his arthritis and zeke with his huge workload so far - to consider this in the future.  

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55 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Pitt was gonna run him into the ground even more than they did to Conner. So, at best with Pitt, it was a 2 year deal for how much? Don't think he makes it 3 years before they toss him aside. Then no one pays him in 2020. He could be in the exact same boat here. 

I assume you’re fishing? He’s a 3 down back, he’s getting 20+ touches no matter where he is.

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2 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

The steelers had just given bell historically high touch volume the first year he was on the franchise tag.

They offered him a deal with "guaranteed money" that he only received if he stayed on the team long enough.  

They then tagged him again and had no plans to resign him afterwards, and it was openly discussed that they would run him into the ground.  There was no incentive for the steelers to manage his touches except to keep him healthy for the playoffs.  

Not wanting to take that kind of workload doesn't mean bell can't handle any large workload. But the wear and tear impacts guys seriously - look at demarco murray in Dallas, philly and Tennessee in back to back to back years - and a year off probably helped his 2019 production and his post football career.  

The jets don't have any reason to force feed him 350 carries.  They might give him all he can handle, but they're invested in 29 year old and 30 year old leveon, too. 

I'm not saying he did the right thing or wrong thing, i'm just saying i understand it and might expect more RBs - like Gurley with his arthritis and zeke with his huge workload so far - to consider this in the future.  

I don`t dispute that.

There are RBs in the NFL that get mad when they don`t get enough touches..then the star RBs feel they might get too many touches.

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15 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

The steelers had just given bell historically high touch volume the first year he was on the franchise tag.

They offered him a deal with "guaranteed money" that he only received if he stayed on the team long enough.  

They then tagged him again and had no plans to resign him afterwards, and it was openly discussed that they would run him into the ground.  There was no incentive for the steelers to manage his touches except to keep him healthy for the playoffs.  

Not wanting to take that kind of workload doesn't mean bell can't handle any large workload. But the wear and tear impacts guys seriously - look at demarco murray in Dallas, philly and Tennessee in back to back to back years - and a year off probably helped his 2019 production and his post football career.  

The jets don't have any reason to force feed him 350 carries.  They might give him all he can handle, but they're invested in 29 year old and 30 year old leveon, too. 

I'm not saying he did the right thing or wrong thing, i'm just saying i understand it and might expect more RBs - like Gurley with his arthritis and zeke with his huge workload so far - to consider this in the future.  

You're conflating two decisions.

The first, turning down the Steelers offer for a long term deal that - for all intents and purposes - was greater than or equal to the Jets offer...there can be no argument that he wasted a year of his career for no good reason, except to find out that the market for his talents was right where the bar had been set.

The second, refusing to play on the transition tag, is more in question.  The Steelers never said they'd run him into the ground, that was talking heads.  The Steelers weren't invested in 'future Leveon' at that point, no.  But they would be invested in finding out what they have behind him, since they'd need to know for the upcoming years.  They'd have used Conner and JaySam because they'd need to get them ready.  So despite the "running him into the ground' narrative, it's unlikely they'd have truly done that.  But I can at least understand it from that point of view.

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm a Jets fan who didn't want Bell (I don't like his tread, his running style, his lifestyle, nor his seeming lack of football will) but this contract seems eminently reasonable if you're the Jets. You have 100 M in cap room. You can have Ingram or Coleman at 8M or 6M or you can have Bell at 13M. Powell may never play football again. Crowell is massively ineffective by advanced measures. He's worse than Latavius Murray in expected points scored per carry and only beats Alfred Blue in that statistic when compared to guys with over 500 touches in the past three years. Cutting him alone saves 2M off the cap this year.  

I like the signing when viewed from that perspective.  

Edited by rockaction

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1 hour ago, belljr said:

So it's basically almost the same deal the Steelers offer

But he doesn't have to live in Pittsburgh anymore.  You can't put a price tag on that.

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1 hour ago, Bojang0301 said:

You mean... like Ross Tucker thinks the Jets are doing: https://twitter.com/rosstuckernfl/status/1105762903330832386?s=21

No, it's nothing like Tucker is talking about in that tweet.  Did you quote the wrong post:confused:

I replied to someone who posted that "the cap hit in year 2 for the Steelers would have been so astronomical that there is no way they would have cut him," by pointing out that a few months ago many people would have said there is no way a team would trade a stud WR for a 3rd & 5th round pick because of the $20M+ cap hit that would come with that trade, and yet that happened.

Tucker's tweet doesn't talk about cap hits for cutting or trading players at any point.

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21 minutes ago, Idiot Boxer said:

You're conflating two decisions.

The first, turning down the Steelers offer for a long term deal that - for all intents and purposes - was greater than or equal to the Jets offer...there can be no argument that he wasted a year of his career for no good reason, except to find out that the market for his talents was right where the bar had been set.

The second, refusing to play on the transition tag, is more in question.  The Steelers never said they'd run him into the ground, that was talking heads.  The Steelers weren't invested in 'future Leveon' at that point, no.  But they would be invested in finding out what they have behind him, since they'd need to know for the upcoming years.  They'd have used Conner and JaySam because they'd need to get them ready.  So despite the "running him into the ground' narrative, it's unlikely they'd have truly done that.  But I can at least understand it from that point of view.

 

Except for that's EXACTLY what they did the year prior, when they were in EXACTLY the same situation. 

So, yeah, if we ignore what they actually did, we can pretend they wouldn't have done that.

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I think that the Tucker tweet doesn't take into account the consideration that the Jets, seeing a 26/27 year old back, could be betting on Bell -- betting that they'll get three years out of him in his prime. 

I bet there's a really good amount of guaranteed money in there.  

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2 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

No, he was only offered $10M in fully guaranteed money.  The rest were rolling guarantees. Remains to be sign what kind of guaranteed money (rolling or fully) is in the Jets contract.

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He leaves the Steelers only 42 yards away from being the #3 all time rushing leader of the team.  That honor will still be held by.....Willie Parker.  He'll also remain tied for #3 in rushing TDs....with Kordell Stewart. 

Also of note, AB leaves the Steelers less than 900 yards away from being their all time leading receiver, and only 11 TDs away from their receiving TD mark. 

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1 minute ago, matttyl said:

He leaves the Steelers only 42 yards away from being the #3 all time rushing leader of the team.  That honor will still be held by.....Willie Parker.  He'll also remain tied for #3 in rushing TDs....with Kordell Stewart. 

Also of note, AB leaves the Steelers less than 900 yards away from being their all time leading receiver, and only 11 TDs away from their receiving TD mark. 

Better men.

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57 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

I can't stop laughing at the deal he got. 

You’re laughing at a guy who in the next 3 years will make 100000 times more than you ever will in your whole life? 

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7 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

No, he was only offered $10M in fully guaranteed money.  The rest were rolling guarantees. Remains to be sign what kind of guaranteed money (rolling or fully) is in the Jets contract.

Not accurate but I am tired of arguing with you.     LeVeon is a Jet now,  time to move on.

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15 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

No, he was only offered $10M in fully guaranteed money.  The rest were rolling guarantees. Remains to be sign what kind of guaranteed money (rolling or fully) is in the Jets contract.

Oh are you quoting Ian Rapoport again... real trust worthy source. Not. Don’t be a dolt.

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

Now the Jets will run him into the ground.  Playing for the Jets will not preserve his body or guarantee he will be able to walk later in life. If Bell is in as bad of shape as reported it will be interesting to see what kind of season he has. 

If he is in "bad" shape, he has time to get in shape. There are no games scheduled for next week.

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35 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I'm a Jets fan who didn't want Bell (I don't like his tread, his running style, his lifestyle, nor his seeming lack of football will) but this contract seems eminently reasonable if you're the Jets. You have 100 M in cap room. You can have Ingram or Coleman at 8M or 6M or you can have Bell at 13M. Powell may never play football again. Crowell is massively ineffective by advanced measures. He's worse than Latavius Murray in expected points scored per carry and only beats Alfred Blue in that statistic when compared to guys with over 500 touches in the past three years. Cutting him alone saves 2M off the cap this year.  

I like the signing when viewed from that perspective.  

Yeah, you guys got him for a relative song.

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I've always assumed that Bell was taking a stance that was based on more than just a bottom line figure. Feeling unfairly treated by a team that used the franchise tag on him in back to back years while offering deals that were below the industry standard due to the Steelers acknowledged refusal to offer higher guaranteed money the way all other NFL teams do. Add to that his belief that the team would abuse the tag again by giving him a high workload, and you get what we saw in this whole saga. From that perspective, I'd say this worked out well for Bell. He gets a big contract with better guaranteed money for a team that is invested in his long term health and productivity. He'll never get the money back he left on the table but I don't think that was ever the only issue. I'll hang up now, and never read this thread again. lol

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Posted (edited)

Aren’t fantasy people supposed to be good at statistics, probability and math?   He didn’t get enough to make up for the lost year of $14.5mm. The risk/reward was a bad decision. It can still be “right” for him and how he viewed it, but monetarily and statistically it was a bad move. He got nowhere near what he thought he was going to make as paying the player rather than the position. He isnt even the highest paid rb and he just got a new deal with a higher salary cap and with teams having boatloads of room. 

Edited by Leeroy Jenkins
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56 minutes ago, Capella said:

You’re laughing at a guy who in the next 3 years will make 100000 times more than you ever will in your whole life? 

If he made the full amount of his 4-year contract over the next 3 years ($61 million), then irish eyes would have to make only $610 in his whole life. Your math skills are emblematic of this thread. 

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49 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Not accurate but I am tired of arguing with you.     LeVeon is a Jet now,  time to move on.

Seriously, why even quote something that says not even one season was fully guaranteed? I agree with your sentiment though, no point in arguing this anymore.

29 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Aren’t fantasy people supposed to be good at statistics, probability and math?   He didn’t get enough to make up for the lost year of $14.5mm. The risk/reward was a bad decision. It can still be “right” for him and how he viewed it, but monetarily and statistically it was a bad move. He go nowhere near what he thought he was going to make as paying the player rather than the position. He isnt even the highest paid rb and he just got a new deal with a higher salary cap and with teams having boatloads of room. 

I went through this about 10 pages back, the answer is no. There is no reason in arguing this anymore, it was clearly a terrible financial decision, which is why he is the only guy to do this in about 2 decades. Anyone who doesn't realize this decision was terrible either doesn't understand probabilities/statistics/math or they're being intentionally obtuse. 

I agree with Godsbrother above, time to move on and discuss football as it pertains to Le'veon & the Jets. 

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Does it really matter if Bell made the right decision by sitting out last season anymore? That's done and only affects Bell's finances. I'm sure he's moved on - not sure why fantasy football players care about Bell's financial situation - especially since he's in pretty sound shape even if he did make a poor choice last year.

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The Jets O-line is slightly better after trading for Kelechi Osemele, if he can stay healthy, but I don't think it's nearly as good as the Steelers line, and it isn't used to Le'veon's stutter running style. It will be interesting to see how well Le'veon does this year. I think his rushing yards drop by a fair amount, maybe to around 1000 yards, but his receiving yards maintain around 600.  Right now I have him as a low end #1 RB after Zeke, Saquon, Gurley, Gordon, McCaffrey, David Johnson, Kamara, James Conner, Dalvin Cook and possibly Nick Chubb depending on Hunt's suspension.

Also, if he's become Eddie Lacy 2.0, that would crater his value. 

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Just now, steelers1080 said:

 but I don't think it's nearly as good as the Steelers line, and it isn't used to Le'veon's stutter running style.

It's not, and it has little hope of getting better at this point - especially since their GM is a dope that doesn't believe in drafting o-line.

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Bell fought for something that was bigger than himself.  NFL owners sit on billions of dollars but then give players non-guaranteed contracts because the sport is violent and careers are short.  The franchise tag enables owners to pay the players year-by-year rather than guaranteeing a longer contract.  When it comes time for the next bargaining agreement between the owners and the union, the players should absolutely line up and fight along with Bell.... more guaranteed money, less franchise tags.

Anyone focusing on the Bell's lost wages from last year is missing the bigger point.

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It’s a good location to land. I have to say I don’t know much about their OL but Crowell had a 200 yd game last year. Loggains and Gase are meh but it’s a capable offense around him. He should be the focal point and not share a backfield. I doubt he has a Steelers level LevBell season but the volume shouldn’t be a problem.

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Meanwhile... WTH is going on in Pittsburgh?  Two key pieces of an A+ offense just bailed on the team.  I know we usually grade the Steelers on a curve because model franchise, but something's broken in the culture there.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Synthesizer said:

Bell fought for something that was bigger than himself.  NFL owners sit on billions of dollars but then give players non-guaranteed contracts because the sport is violent and careers are short.  The franchise tag enables owners to pay the players year-by-year rather than guaranteeing a longer contract.  When it comes time for the next bargaining agreement between the owners and the union, the players should absolutely line up and fight along with Bell.... more guaranteed money, less franchise tags.

Anyone focusing on the Bell's lost wages from last year is missing the bigger point.

Or, you know, they can collectively bargain. What is with people in 2019? Do you not know how contracts and unions work? This is 110% the very players you think you’re defending’s fault. Geez, I was saying how stupid and ####ty it was after the last CBA was agreed upon. They deserve no sympathy. Their union leader is Goodell’s puppet and they let them steam roll over them.

Edited by Bojang0301

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4 minutes ago, Synthesizer said:

Bell fought for something that was bigger than himself.  NFL owners sit on billions of dollars but then give players non-guaranteed contracts because the sport is violent and careers are short.  The franchise tag enables owners to pay the players year-by-year rather than guaranteeing a longer contract.  When it comes time for the next bargaining agreement between the owners and the union, the players should absolutely line up and fight along with Bell.... more guaranteed money, less franchise tags.

Anyone focusing on the Bell's lost wages from last year is missing the bigger point.

Playing on one year deals works out very well if a player wants to take the risk. Revis comes to mind, Cousins is prob top of the list. 

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3 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

It’s a good location to land. I have to say I don’t know much about their OL but Crowell had a 200 yd game last year. Loggains and Gase are meh but it’s a capable offense around him. He should be the focal point and not share a backfield. I doubt he has a Steelers level LevBell season but the volume shouldn’t be a problem.

Their line was better than the sum of its parts last season and added Osemele - they also hired a great OL coach in Frank Pollack. Their line should be mid-pack.

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2 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Or, you know, they can collectively bargain. What is with people in 2019? Do you not know how contracts and unions work? This is 110% the very players you think your defendings fault. Geez, I was saying how stupid and ####ty it was after the last CBA was agreed upon. They deserve no sympathy. Their union leader is Goodell’s puppet and they let them steam roll over them.

The only team to vote against limiting players power in the last round of the CBA... The Steelers. 

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1 hour ago, Bojang0301 said:

Oh are you quoting Ian Rapoport again... real trust worthy source. Not. Don’t be a dolt.

Not sure why you feel the need to call names, but whatever.  

You're choosing to believe that Pitt offered more, despite the fact that the larger guaranteed money amount was leaked by the organization.  Rational questioning leads to the conclusion that Pitt benefits (with regards to public perception) by making the guarantees the offered look larger than it is.  Is that proof that that number is inaccurate?  No, it's not.  You're choosing to ignore the $10M guarantee amount, despite the fact that it has not been refuted by the Steelers, AND it fits in with their style of contract structuring.  Again, this doesn't prove that the $10M number is correct.  

You choose to believe the larger number is accurate, I choose to believe the $10M number is accurate.  Don't pretend like you have any proof that you are correct, and try to refrain from calling names, okay?

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

Not accurate but I am tired of arguing with you.     LeVeon is a Jet now,  time to move on.

No need to argue.  If anyone can provide a link to proof that it's inaccurate, I'd be happy to look at it.  Since no one can, I'll go with the report that wasn't leaked by the organization in an apparent attempt to give credence to the claim "we really tried to keep him."

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2 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

No need to argue.  If anyone can provide a link to proof that it's inaccurate, I'd be happy to look at it.  Since no one can, I'll go with the report that wasn't leaked by the organization in an apparent attempt to give credence to the claim "we really tried to keep him."

Believe what you want.  As I said it doesn't matter anymore

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Right now I have him as a low end #1 RB after Zeke, Saquon, Gurley, Gordon, McCaffrey, David Johnson, Kamara, James Conner, Dalvin Cook and possibly Nick Chubb depending on Hunt's suspension.

 

Think I'm a little higher on him than you. Hopefully he plays with a chip on his shoulder. I think he'll be in NY for 2 years, 3 tops and they'll run him into the ground over that time. That's simply what you do with your workhorse back and the nature of the beast. 

PPR - Saquon, CMC, Kamara, Zeke, Gurley (to me, these 5 are interchangeable and you can flip a coin and hope for the best) - after them, imo, you can argue the next bunch in any order you want, which includes Bell. If AZ takes Murray, I prob bump DJ near the top of that next tier. 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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3 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Now that we know this was an idiotic move, what do we think he does on the Jets? 

Seems like you have to say things like this to convince yourself you were right because nobody is telling you are....there might be a reason for that....

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3 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Or he plays for $14.5mm last year and gets $35mm this year. 

There was no guarantee he gets the 35

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2 hours ago, Stephen Holloway said:

Congrats to LeVeon Bell and the Jets for this signing.

Please continue to discuss the pros and cons of this signing, of LeVeon Bell's actions the past year plus, and all "I told you so!" right here in this thread until the end of time, but nowhere else.

#toomuchtoask

Dude...it’s a message board to discuss all things football...if all you want is rankings and projections talk this may not be the place.....his decision and pathway here is something that’s hasnt every really happened in todays NFL....we may or may not see decisions like this again....it’s worth discussion and back and forth on a message board in a thread about the player......I’m sure there will be plenty of places to discuss where he should be drafted, projections, etc....let the thread dictate itself....

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29 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Meanwhile... WTH is going on in Pittsburgh?  Two key pieces of an A+ offense just bailed on the team.  I know we usually grade the Steelers on a curve because model franchise, but something's broken in the culture there.

They have Ben, Juju, and Conner. They could afford to lose those two and still be a dynamic offense. 

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2 hours ago, irish eyes said:

I can't stop laughing at the deal he got. 

He appears to have a deal in the range that was expected.

30-40 guaranteed, 50-60 total.

Good for him.

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Oh we're going to see it again......Bell got Kaepernicked and still won in the end. He would have gotten 40-45 million gtd if the owners hadn't colluded against him. Indy had a ton of cap space and really could have of used him.......were surprisingly silent. They have title equity too......3 year deal with a team option on the 3rd year and 35 million gtd in the first two years would have done it. 

 

Owners got each others backs though......

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13 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

There was no guarantee he gets the 35

The only way to guarantee it was to stay healthy.

The best way to do that was to pass on 400+ touches last year.

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31 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Meanwhile... WTH is going on in Pittsburgh?  Two key pieces of an A+ offense just bailed on the team.  I know we usually grade the Steelers on a curve because model franchise, but something's broken in the culture there.

This year will be a referendum on the "broken culture" of the Steelers.  Bell/Brown provided a majority of the distractions over the last several years so we'll see what happens now that they are gone.

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25 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

Not sure why you feel the need to call names, but whatever.  

You're choosing to believe that Pitt offered more, despite the fact that the larger guaranteed money amount was leaked by the organization.  Rational questioning leads to the conclusion that Pitt benefits (with regards to public perception) by making the guarantees the offered look larger than it is.  Is that proof that that number is inaccurate?  No, it's not.  You're choosing to ignore the $10M guarantee amount, despite the fact that it has not been refuted by the Steelers, AND it fits in with their style of contract structuring.  Again, this doesn't prove that the $10M number is correct.  

You choose to believe the larger number is accurate, I choose to believe the $10M number is accurate.  Don't pretend like you have any proof that you are correct, and try to refrain from calling names, okay?

Oh they definitely asked him to take a pay cut year one. No way he would have reacted the way he did getting a decent offer. I'm just happy at least one team refused to collude against him. 

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2 minutes ago, matuski said:

The only way to guarantee it was to stay healthy.

The best way to do that was to pass on 400+ touches last year.

Or to sign the Steelers long term offer which was in the range of what Bell got after skipping a season of earning potential.  

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Steeler said:

Or to sign the Steelers long term offer which was in the range of what Bell got after skipping a season of earning potential.  

I believe we have been around this bush a few times.  We don't know what that deal was, and the less biased leaked version was certainly less.

Edited by matuski

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2 hours ago, irish eyes said:

I can't stop laughing at the deal he got. 

At least you're not crying anymore about the AB deal, though, amirite?

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