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JackReacher

NFL outlaws RBs lowering their heads

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It appears the NFL is going to change the rules so that backs can not lower their heads before impact. Emmitt said in the link that is just the natural style of every runner, and if they don't lower their heads, LBs aim for their chins. This does not appear to be very well thought out by the NFL and is not going to end well.

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awful. just put flags on their belts already

Can't do that, they might accidently miss the flag and grab the pants pull them down, the player trips and falls and gets a concussion.Can't have that, flags are dangerous.

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:lmao: Atteempting to enforce this one be entertaining. Forget about trying to score a TD inside the 5 yard line. May as well just kick a FG if you are at the 1.

What's the penalty? 15 yards? :lmao:

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Could have some serious impact on the game. It is getting ridiculous though. If not for fantasy football and being invested in two dynasty league, I'd probably move on. Between having games on every night and this, not to mention the rules about hitting, it's just not the same any more.

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Could have some serious impact on the game. It is getting ridiculous though. If not for fantasy football and being invested in two dynasty league, I'd probably move on. Between having games on every night and this, not to mention the rules about hitting, it's just not the same any more.

:goodposting:

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I'm for it. Lead with the shoulder or forearm.

:goodposting: I'd like to see the specifics and for the league to provide some examples. But, the league has to protect it's players or it will eventually fold.

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I'm for it. Lead with the shoulder or forearm.

:goodposting: I'd like to see the specifics and for the league to provide some examples. But, the league has to protect it's players or it will eventually fold.
its football, people get hurt. You will never take that out, this proposed rule is dumb.

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its football, people get hurt. You will never take that out, this proposed rule is dumb.

If we continue uncovering the long-term effects and nothing is done to prevent them, there won't be football anymore, as we see it today.

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its football, people get hurt. You will never take that out, this proposed rule is dumb.

If we continue uncovering the long-term effects and nothing is done to prevent them, there won't be football anymore, as we see it today.
Their attempts to fix this is never going to be 100% unless they eliminate football itself. Some people are succeptible to these 'long term effect' and some are not. How many guys played back in the 70's getting their heads slapped by Deacon Jones and others yet are fine today? Just because Seau's brain (among a few others) malfunctioned, they should go to stupid extremes?

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Seems it would hurt goal line and short yardage situations the most. What about QB sneaks? You get no leverage when you're upright trying to push the pile. It will become all passing in those situations.

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its football, people get hurt. You will never take that out, this proposed rule is dumb.

If we continue uncovering the long-term effects and nothing is done to prevent them, there won't be football anymore, as we see it today.
Their attempts to fix this is never going to be 100% unless they eliminate football itself. Some people are succeptible to these 'long term effect' and some are not. How many guys played back in the 70's getting their heads slapped by Deacon Jones and others yet are fine today? Just because Seau's brain (among a few others) malfunctioned, they should go to stupid extremes?
How many guys aren't?

Is football worse off because a d-lineman can't bludgeon the guy he's trying to get by?

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Seems it would hurt goal line and short yardage situations the most. What about QB sneaks? You get no leverage when you're upright trying to push the pile. It will become all passing in those situations.

Cool! Make it so.

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Forget about trying to score a TD inside the 5 yard line.

The OP left out that it's only a penalty outside of the tackle box. And most rules like this would extend to 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, so it wouldn't be a penalty on the above mentioned play.

That said, I think the rule even with that stipulation is a bad one. It's going to blow up with fans and in the media as bad as the defenseless receiver stuff. And probably worse once some game-winning scores are taken off the board that affect who makes the playoffs.

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I'm for it. Lead with the shoulder or forearm.

:goodposting: I'd like to see the specifics and for the league to provide some examples. But, the league has to protect it's players or it will eventually fold.
Whats great is the same people complain about the hits from defenders that get flagged for things when the offensive player lowers their head.Now complain when the NFL tries to even it up and flag the offensive player for dropping their head and leading with the crown of their helmet.Can't please people that want to complain about everything.

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I'm for it. Lead with the shoulder or forearm.

:goodposting: I'd like to see the specifics and for the league to provide some examples. But, the league has to protect it's players or it will eventually fold.
Whats great is the same people complain about the hits from defenders that get flagged for things when the offensive player lowers their head.Now complain when the NFL tries to even it up and flag the offensive player for dropping their head and leading with the crown of their helmet.Can't please people that want to complain about everything.
:hifive: x 100

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Seems it would hurt goal line and short yardage situations the most. What about QB sneaks? You get no leverage when you're upright trying to push the pile. It will become all passing in those situations.

See my post above. Wouldn't impact these plays since inside the tackle box. But still a bad rule.

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Their attempts to fix this is never going to be 100% unless they eliminate football itself. Some people are succeptible to these 'long term effect' and some are not. How many guys played back in the 70's getting their heads slapped by Deacon Jones and others yet are fine today? Just because Seau's brain (among a few others) malfunctioned, they should go to stupid extremes?

Athletes are getting bigger, faster and stronger. Fast. I don't know what is so stupid about it, personally.

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Seems it would hurt goal line and short yardage situations the most. What about QB sneaks? You get no leverage when you're upright trying to push the pile. It will become all passing in those situations.

See my post above. Wouldn't impact these plays since inside the tackle box. But still a bad rule.
Makes it a bit more tolerable, but like you said still a bad rule.

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Civil War

Exactly.

Goodell is a Manchurian Candidate.

He pretends to be Mr. Football, but reality is he is here to destroy it.

The effect of this is the run game becomes ineffectual and then it's pass pass pass pass pass.

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Forget about trying to score a TD inside the 5 yard line.

The OP left out that it's only a penalty outside of the tackle box. And most rules like this would extend to 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, so it wouldn't be a penalty on the above mentioned play.

That said, I think the rule even with that stipulation is a bad one. It's going to blow up with fans and in the media as bad as the defenseless receiver stuff. And probably worse once some game-winning scores are taken off the board that affect who makes the playoffs.

So what if it's out of the tackle box? Why even make the distinction?

This thing is so dumb and destructive to the game that it cannot possibly be just "dumb."

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its football, people get hurt. You will never take that out, this proposed rule is dumb.

If we continue uncovering the long-term effects and nothing is done to prevent them, there won't be football anymore, as we see it today.
Their attempts to fix this is never going to be 100% unless they eliminate football itself. Some people are succeptible to these 'long term effect' and some are not. How many guys played back in the 70's getting their heads slapped by Deacon Jones and others yet are fine today? Just because Seau's brain (among a few others) malfunctioned, they should go to stupid extremes?
How many guys aren't?

Is football worse off because a d-lineman can't bludgeon the guy he's trying to get by?

The rule to eliminate that move was a good idea. This is flat out stupid. Regardless of what rules the put in place, you will always have some people with brains that are traumatized becasue of playing football. This rule won't change that. What is next? OL can no longer butt heads with the DL. All lineman must start off standing up and the center doesn't hike the ball? The ball starts in the QBs hand? When does that go into effect?

Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

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Forget about trying to score a TD inside the 5 yard line.

The OP left out that it's only a penalty outside of the tackle box. And most rules like this would extend to 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, so it wouldn't be a penalty on the above mentioned play.

That said, I think the rule even with that stipulation is a bad one. It's going to blow up with fans and in the media as bad as the defenseless receiver stuff. And probably worse once some game-winning scores are taken off the board that affect who makes the playoffs.

So what if it's out of the tackle box? Why even make the distinction?

This thing is so dumb and destructive to the game that it cannot possibly be just "dumb."

:lmao: RBs can lower their heads depending on where they are on the field? Stupid just ratcheted it up a notch.

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The rule to eliminate that move was a good idea. This is flat out stupid. Regardless of what rules the put in place, you will always have some people with brains that are traumatized becasue of playing football. This rule won't change that.

It can for this situation. Your argument is one of "since we can't protect everyone we shouldn't protect anyone". That's a false argument.

What is next? OL can no longer butt heads with the DL. All lineman must start off standing up and the center doesn't hike the ball? The ball starts in the QBs hand? When does that go into effect?Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

That's a concern too. But it's a separate case from a guy having a full head of steam and subsequently lowering it.

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Regardless of what rules the put in place, you will always have some people with brains that are traumatized becasue of playing football. This rule won't change that. What is next? OL can no longer butt heads with the DL. All lineman must start off standing up and the center doesn't hike the ball? The ball starts in the QBs hand? When does that go into effect?

I don't think anyone is arguing that the sport will always have some risk. That doesn't mean they shouldn't make it safer. Leading with the crown of your helmet is very dangerous. Defenders can't tackle that way, why should offensive players be able to initiate contact that way?

Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

Surely you see the difference, no?

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So what if it's out of the tackle box? Why even make the distinction?This thing is so dumb and destructive to the game that it cannot possibly be just "dumb."

You don't see the difference between a goal line dive and an open field collision?

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Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

Surely you see the difference, no?
But a RB will lower his head what, a handful of times per game at the most? A lineman will lead with this head 70+ times a game every game. That's safer? How often does a LB lower his head to bust up a play or the blocking?

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But a RB will lower his head what, a handful of times per game at the most? A lineman will lead with this head 70+ times a game every game. That's safer? How often does a LB lower his head to bust up a play or the blocking?

Linemen don't lead with their crowns. They aren't saying you can't lower your head at all, or can't touch helmets. You're fighting a strawman.

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Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

Surely you see the difference, no?
But a RB will lower his head what, a handful of times per game at the most? A lineman will lead with this head 70+ times a game every game. That's safer? How often does a LB lower his head to bust up a play or the blocking?
For real?

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Civil War

Exactly.

Goodell is a Manchurian Candidate.

He pretends to be Mr. Football, but reality is he is here to destroy it.

The effect of this is the run game becomes ineffectual and then it's pass pass pass pass pass.

The overreaction here is great...especially from the Saints contingent.

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Forget about trying to score a TD inside the 5 yard line.

The OP left out that it's only a penalty outside of the tackle box. And most rules like this would extend to 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, so it wouldn't be a penalty on the above mentioned play.

That said, I think the rule even with that stipulation is a bad one. It's going to blow up with fans and in the media as bad as the defenseless receiver stuff. And probably worse once some game-winning scores are taken off the board that affect who makes the playoffs.

So what if it's out of the tackle box? Why even make the distinction?

This thing is so dumb and destructive to the game that it cannot possibly be just "dumb."

Holy Drama batman!!!

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its football, people get hurt. You will never take that out, this proposed rule is dumb.

If we continue uncovering the long-term effects and nothing is done to prevent them, there won't be football anymore, as we see it today.
Their attempts to fix this is never going to be 100% unless they eliminate football itself. Some people are succeptible to these 'long term effect' and some are not. How many guys played back in the 70's getting their heads slapped by Deacon Jones and others yet are fine today? Just because Seau's brain (among a few others) malfunctioned, they should go to stupid extremes?
How many guys aren't?

Is football worse off because a d-lineman can't bludgeon the guy he's trying to get by?

The rule to eliminate that move was a good idea. This is flat out stupid. Regardless of what rules the put in place, you will always have some people with brains that are traumatized becasue of playing football. This rule won't change that. What is next? OL can no longer butt heads with the DL. All lineman must start off standing up and the center doesn't hike the ball? The ball starts in the QBs hand? When does that go into effect?

Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

Sure, there will still be concussions...but shouldn't the NFL try to limit them as much as possible?

They are talking about leading with the crown of the helmet here.

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So what if it's out of the tackle box? Why even make the distinction?This thing is so dumb and destructive to the game that it cannot possibly be just "dumb."

You don't see the difference between a goal line dive and an open field collision?
3rd & 4 from the own 40 yard line and the RB cuts left 1 yard inside his right tackle and it's not a penalty or he cuts right one yard outside his tackle and there is? Do you see the difference there? It's wholly made up, invented out of whole cloth. If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.

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Forget about trying to score a TD inside the 5 yard line.

The OP left out that it's only a penalty outside of the tackle box. And most rules like this would extend to 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, so it wouldn't be a penalty on the above mentioned play.

That said, I think the rule even with that stipulation is a bad one. It's going to blow up with fans and in the media as bad as the defenseless receiver stuff. And probably worse once some game-winning scores are taken off the board that affect who makes the playoffs.

So what if it's out of the tackle box? Why even make the distinction?

This thing is so dumb and destructive to the game that it cannot possibly be just "dumb."

Holy Drama batman!!!
Hey do we care about the game or do we not care?

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If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.

Man, you guys are creating an army of straw men. You're going Godzilla on their ###es.The issue is leading with the crown of your helmet. Not a player protecting themselves. As I think we all know, leading with the crown of your helmet is the exact opposite of protecting yourself. It's putting yourself at great risk.

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The rule to eliminate that move was a good idea. This is flat out stupid. Regardless of what rules the put in place, you will always have some people with brains that are traumatized becasue of playing football. This rule won't change that.

It can for this situation. Your argument is one of "since we can't protect everyone we shouldn't protect anyone". That's a false argument.

What is next? OL can no longer butt heads with the DL. All lineman must start off standing up and the center doesn't hike the ball? The ball starts in the QBs hand? When does that go into effect?Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

That's a concern too. But it's a separate case from a guy having a full head of steam and subsequently lowering it.
My main argument is how the hell do they enforce this? The hitting a QB is already a joke. How many drives have been saved because the defense got a BS flag for hitting the QB legally yet the ref was quick to pull the flag out because everything was moving too fast for him to process. It happens every week.Just keep throwing those gray areas out there for these refs to sift thru.

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Anything could happen anywhere.

We understand this. I understand that I can die every time I get in my car. I still wear a seatbelt and check my blind spot. Airbags are still stadard.

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So what if it's out of the tackle box? Why even make the distinction?

This thing is so dumb and destructive to the game that it cannot possibly be just "dumb."

You don't see the difference between a goal line dive and an open field collision?
3rd & 4 from the own 40 yard line and the RB cuts left 1 yard inside his right tackle and it's not a penalty or he cuts right one yard outside his tackle and there is? Do you see the difference there? It's wholly made up, invented out of whole cloth.

If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.

Well worded showcasing the stupidity of this.

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My main argument is how the hell do they enforce this? The hitting a QB is already a joke. How many drives have been saved because the defense got a BS flag for hitting the QB legally yet the ref was quick to pull the flag out because everything was moving too fast for him to process. It happens every week.Just keep throwing those gray areas out there for these refs to sift thru.

I would say that the BS part of hitting QB's is in how they wrote the rule, not the enforcement of it.You're right that they have to write this rule carefully. But it's pretty obvious what they're talking about here...which really amounts to offensive spearing.

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If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.

Man, you guys are creating an army of straw men. You're going Godzilla on their ###es.The issue is leading with the crown of your helmet. Not a player protecting themselves. As I think we all know, leading with the crown of your helmet is the exact opposite of protecting yourself. It's putting yourself at great risk.
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?

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Linemen heads ram into each other every play.

Surely you see the difference, no?
But a RB will lower his head what, a handful of times per game at the most? A lineman will lead with this head 70+ times a game every game. That's safer? How often does a LB lower his head to bust up a play or the blocking?
For real?
They can't eliminate all h2h contact. Dunno. Seems like a dumb rule to me. And you think lineman aren't banging heads more than RBs?

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My main argument is how the hell do they enforce this? The hitting a QB is already a joke. How many drives have been saved because the defense got a BS flag for hitting the QB legally yet the ref was quick to pull the flag out because everything was moving too fast for him to process. It happens every week.Just keep throwing those gray areas out there for these refs to sift thru.

This applies to every rule. How many drives are kept alive due to incorrect PI calls? Or missed holding calls?

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They can't eliminate all h2h contact. Dunno. Seems like a dumb rule to me. And you think lineman aren't banging heads more than RBs?

Trolling? Linemen do not lead with the crown of their helmets. Do you understand that?

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Anything could happen anywhere.

We understand this. I understand that I can die every time I get in my car. I still wear a seatbelt and check my blind spot. Airbags are still stadard.
....and they still sign up to play the game. Someone is still eventually going to either die or be paralyzed again on an NFL field. One of the riskiest plays is a high pass and the WR getting his feet cut out beneath him causing him to drop on his head. Next up, outlaw high passes and WRs jumping.

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They can't eliminate all h2h contact. Dunno. Seems like a dumb rule to me. And you think lineman aren't banging heads more than RBs?

Trolling? Linemen do not lead with the crown of their helmets. Do you understand that?
Relax, you seem to be getting upset. Not trolling, just think its a bad rule. Carry on.

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So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?

The problem is that the tackle is normally initiated by the defensive player and what has happened with increasing regularity is that the offensive player is putting their helmet down second which leads to two results - 1) the defensive player incorrectly being flagged for helmet-to-helmet and 2) both players being endangered by the offensive player's action.I don't give a crap what Emmitt, Marshawn, and ESPECIALLY Jim Brown feel about this.

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