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NFL outlaws RBs lowering their heads (1 Viewer)

'Concept Coop said:
'Amused to Death said:
They can't eliminate all h2h contact. Dunno. Seems like a dumb rule to me. And you think lineman aren't banging heads more than RBs?
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Trolling? Linemen do not lead with the crown of their helmets. Do you understand that?
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Come again?Took about 3 seconds to find a video crushing your claim. Check the 3:08 mark and then get back to me on the BS you spouted.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soeJPrECuXg
 
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?
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What is the problem? The greatly increased chance of breaking your neck, among other, equally obvious repercussions.
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
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Emmitt is one of my favorite playere of all time. He's also dumb as rocks. He clearly doesn't understand the proposal, and he doesn't once argue it, actually. He seems to think they league is suggesting a player must keep their head straight up and lead with their chin. That is clearly not the case.
 
'Andy Dufresne said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
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The problem is that the tackle is normally initiated by the defensive player and what has happened with increasing regularity is that the offensive player is putting their helmet down second which leads to two results - 1) the defensive player incorrectly being flagged for helmet-to-helmet and 2) both players being endangered by the offensive player's action.I don't give a crap what Emmitt, Marshawn, and ESPECIALLY Jim Brown feel about this.
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The No. 1 problem is very fixable - don't flag the defensive player, end of story.On No. 2 - NFL players are "endangered" on every single play. Yes the rule here is that someone might get hurt, that's the idea. It is so vague as to be purposeless.
 
'Amused to Death said:
'Concept Coop said:
'Amused to Death said:
They can't eliminate all h2h contact. Dunno. Seems like a dumb rule to me. And you think lineman aren't banging heads more than RBs?
Click to expand...
Trolling? Linemen do not lead with the crown of their helmets. Do you understand that?
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Relax, you seem to be getting upset. Not trolling, just think its a bad rule. Carry on.
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I understand that and am plenty calm. But you just seem to suggest they are trying to outlaw helmet-to-helmet contact, which they are not.
 
Let's just put some lions and sand on the field. Maybe scatter some swords and a mace or a pike out there too.

I don't get the bloodlust some of you guys have for this game.

 
'Concept Coop said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?
Click to expand...
What is the problem? The greatly increased chance of breaking your neck, among other, equally obvious repercussions.
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
Click to expand...
Emmitt is one of my favorite playere of all time. He's also dumb as rocks. He clearly doesn't understand the proposal, and he doesn't once argue it, actually. He seems to think they league is suggesting a player must keep their head straight up and lead with their chin. That is clearly not the case.
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The number of broken necks from this exact same play in over 90 years of pro football is how many?I think the other rercussions part is closer - the NFL wants another rule change where they can say they're doing something about concussions. There's no more proof behind saying this rule will help than any of the others.

 
They'd better not implement this or else I was post on Facebook that I am going to quit watching the NFL but then watch it anyway.

 
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
Hey do we care about the game or do we not care?
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Sure I care...and want the game to go on and not be sued off its behind.How in the world is this "destructive" to the game?Please enlighten us how making an RB not drop the crown of his helmet to hit another player destructive to the game?
 
'Concept Coop said:
'Amused to Death said:
'Concept Coop said:
'Amused to Death said:
They can't eliminate all h2h contact. Dunno. Seems like a dumb rule to me. And you think lineman aren't banging heads more than RBs?
Click to expand...
Trolling? Linemen do not lead with the crown of their helmets. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...
Relax, you seem to be getting upset. Not trolling, just think its a bad rule. Carry on.
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I understand that and am plenty calm. But you just seem to suggest they are trying to outlaw helmet-to-helmet contact, which they are not.
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Not yet. Give it another few years.
 
'lod01 said:
Come again?Took about 3 seconds to find a video crushing your claim. Check the 3:08 mark and then get back to me on the BS you spouted.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soeJPrECuXg
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It would be slightly inconveniencing for me to access YouTube right now, so I'll pass. There is a difference between a player leading with the crown of his helmet in the open field and the typical OL/DL contact.
 
'Concept Coop said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
On No. 2 - NFL players are "endangered" on every single play. Yes the rule here is that someone might get hurt, that's the idea. It is so vague as to be purposeless.
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You could die every time you drive your car. Do you wear a seatbelt?
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That's an equipment change.This is equivalent to the US Dept of Transportation saying that they will lower traffic fatalities by limiting the number of times people drive.
 
It is just a proposal at this point. It only applies when they are outside of the tackle box so you can still run up the middle and in the goal line in the same way.

Having said that, this would be a TERRIBLE thing. I would expect the running game to pretty much dispersal over a few years if they make this rule.

 
'Andy Dufresne said:
Let's just put some lions and sand on the field. Maybe scatter some swords and a mace or a pike out there too.I don't get the bloodlust some of you guys have for this game.
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Yeah becasue so many RBs have been killed and maimed running the football in the NFL. :lmao:
 
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'Concept Coop said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.
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Man, you guys are creating an army of straw men. You're going Godzilla on their ###es.The issue is leading with the crown of your helmet. Not a player protecting themselves. As I think we all know, leading with the crown of your helmet is the exact opposite of protecting yourself. It's putting yourself at great risk.
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So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
Click to expand...
You don't see the problem with a RB dropping the crown of his helmet and delivering a blow to anyone? Really?
 
'Andy Dufresne said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think the other rercussions part is closer - the NFL wants another rule change where they can say they're doing something about concussions. There's no more proof behind saying this rule will help than any of the others.
Click to expand...
You have proof of that? Or is it just a guess?
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It's mot my rule change, you would the burden would be on the NFL to show the correlation, not some random fan to show they;re wrong. Because otherwise like I said they're just making it up as they go along.
 
'Andy Dufresne said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
Click to expand...
The problem is that the tackle is normally initiated by the defensive player and what has happened with increasing regularity is that the offensive player is putting their helmet down second which leads to two results - 1) the defensive player incorrectly being flagged for helmet-to-helmet and 2) both players being endangered by the offensive player's action.I don't give a crap what Emmitt, Marshawn, and ESPECIALLY Jim Brown feel about this.
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:goodposting:
 
'Concept Coop said:
'lod01 said:
Come again?Took about 3 seconds to find a video crushing your claim. Check the 3:08 mark and then get back to me on the BS you spouted.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soeJPrECuXg
Click to expand...
It would be slightly inconveniencing for me to access YouTube right now, so I'll pass. There is a difference between a player leading with the crown of his helmet in the open field and the typical OL/DL contact.
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Well that video shows about 8 guys on each side of the ball leading with the crown of their helmets.
 
'Andy Dufresne said:
'lod01 said:
'Andy Dufresne said:
Let's just put some lions and sand on the field. Maybe scatter some swords and a mace or a pike out there too.I don't get the bloodlust some of you guys have for this game.
Click to expand...
Yeah becasue so many RBs have been killed and maimed running the football in the NFL. :lmao:
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Killed, no. But are you seriously positing that people haven't been maimed playing football?
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Are you saying they are maimed by hitting with the crown of their helmet outside the tackle box?
 
'lod01 said:
'Andy Dufresne said:
Let's just put some lions and sand on the field. Maybe scatter some swords and a mace or a pike out there too.I don't get the bloodlust some of you guys have for this game.
Click to expand...
Yeah becasue so many RBs have been killed and maimed running the football in the NFL. :lmao:
Click to expand...
Not yet...but everyone getting bigger and faster and stronger and its only a matter of time given the force of these collisions and what science can prove about the danger of leading with the crown of the helmet.
 
'sho nuff said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'Concept Coop said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.
Click to expand...
Man, you guys are creating an army of straw men. You're going Godzilla on their ###es.The issue is leading with the crown of your helmet. Not a player protecting themselves. As I think we all know, leading with the crown of your helmet is the exact opposite of protecting yourself. It's putting yourself at great risk.
Click to expand...
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?

By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
Click to expand...
You don't see the problem with a RB dropping the crown of his helmet and delivering a blow to anyone? Really?
Click to expand...
No.
. jacked that mofo up! :thumbup: btw, is that a penalty because I'll guarantee you as fast as that happened, the ref would throw a flag.

 
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'lod01 said:
'Concept Coop said:
'lod01 said:
Come again?Took about 3 seconds to find a video crushing your claim. Check the 3:08 mark and then get back to me on the BS you spouted.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soeJPrECuXg
Click to expand...
It would be slightly inconveniencing for me to access YouTube right now, so I'll pass. There is a difference between a player leading with the crown of his helmet in the open field and the typical OL/DL contact.
Click to expand...
Well that video shows about 8 guys on each side of the ball leading with the crown of their helmets.
Click to expand...
Not really at all what it showed...nor what this rule is going after.But keep trying.
 
'lod01 said:
'sho nuff said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'Concept Coop said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.
Click to expand...
Man, you guys are creating an army of straw men. You're going Godzilla on their ###es.The issue is leading with the crown of your helmet. Not a player protecting themselves. As I think we all know, leading with the crown of your helmet is the exact opposite of protecting yourself. It's putting yourself at great risk.
Click to expand...
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?

By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
Click to expand...
You don't see the problem with a RB dropping the crown of his helmet and delivering a blow to anyone? Really?
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No.
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Glad you brought up Earl...check on his health lately?And that was almost 6 years ago when this was written.

Not sure he is a guy you want to be hanging your hat on to make your argument...because you just proved mine.

 
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'sho nuff said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'Concept Coop said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.
Click to expand...
Man, you guys are creating an army of straw men. You're going Godzilla on their ###es.The issue is leading with the crown of your helmet. Not a player protecting themselves. As I think we all know, leading with the crown of your helmet is the exact opposite of protecting yourself. It's putting yourself at great risk.
Click to expand...
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
Click to expand...
You don't see the problem with a RB dropping the crown of his helmet and delivering a blow to anyone? Really?
Click to expand...
Wait, are you telling me that when a RB goes plunging forward - outside the tackle box or otherwise - that he knows who the heck is going to be there when he emerges at the end of it?I have a really hard time imagining or recalling an offensive player who conscisously, purposefully put his crown down to harm another player, but I can think about 99.99% of the plays where an offensive player put the crown of his head down and forward to get an extra yard. And I'm saying if the NFL is creating a rule to (supposedly, they claim) to protect teh former while in practicality banning the latter then they are eliminating one of the best parts of football.
 
Putting their head down to push forward...and doing so leading with the drown to deliver a blow are completely different things...and they are pretty easy to see for most reasonable people.

 
'sho nuff said:
'lod01 said:
'sho nuff said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'Concept Coop said:
If anything to use your example the RB making the sweep at the goal line can have more reason to use his head to bury down and protect himself and make the extra yard if he has 2 LB's and 2 DB's on him while the guy making the plunge could go in untouched. Anything could happen anywhere.
Click to expand...
Man, you guys are creating an army of straw men. You're going Godzilla on their ###es.The issue is leading with the crown of your helmet. Not a player protecting themselves. As I think we all know, leading with the crown of your helmet is the exact opposite of protecting yourself. It's putting yourself at great risk.
Click to expand...
So explain again the problem with a John Riggins type running a sweep from the 5 and he sees a DB coming at him and he plants the "crown" of his helmet in the sternum on the way to the end zone?Someone's going to get hurt, right? Is that the rule?

By the about the shouting of alarmism - Emmitt Smith started this conversation. How do you think Marshawn Lynch, Jim Brown and guys like that feel about this?
Click to expand...
You don't see the problem with a RB dropping the crown of his helmet and delivering a blow to anyone? Really?
Click to expand...
No.
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What would the NFL have to do to 100% eliminate what has happened to Earl?What?

Are we done yet or do you think more steps are necessary? Which ones?

 
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
Wait, are you telling me that when a RB goes plunging forward - outside the tackle box or otherwise - that he knows who the heck is going to be there when he emerges at the end of it?
Click to expand...
Straw man.
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
And I'm saying if the NFL is creating a rule to (supposedly, they claim) to protect teh former while in practicality banning the latter then they are eliminating one of the best parts of football.
Click to expand...
Most RBs don't lead with the crown of their helmets as it is. I would hardly call the few times it happens the best part of the sport.
 
'sho nuff said:
Putting their head down to push forward...and doing so leading with the drown to deliver a blow are completely different things...and they are pretty easy to see for most reasonable people.
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And every defensive head-to-head penalty has looked good to you, has it? All those calls have been 100% reasonable to you?
 
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
What would the NFL have to do to 100% eliminate what has happened to Earl?What?Are we done yet or do you think more steps are necessary? Which ones?
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So instead of trying to figure it out and lower the chances (never can 100% elminate it)...should they just do nothing?Let it keep going with these players...that, oh, by the way, are suing the league...players they will be on the hook for either through insurance or lawsuits?
 
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'sho nuff said:
Putting their head down to push forward...and doing so leading with the drown to deliver a blow are completely different things...and they are pretty easy to see for most reasonable people.
Click to expand...
And every defensive head-to-head penalty has looked good to you, has it? All those calls have been 100% reasonable to you?
Click to expand...
No more than every holding call or non-holding...or pass interference.Nothing is 100%...so nice straw man.Seems all you have to go on right now.But oh...its so destructive and apparently the best part of the game to you is a RB dropping his helmet to lead with the crown and hit a defender.
 
'Concept Coop said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
And every defensive head-to-head penalty has looked good to you, has it? All those calls have been 100% reasonable to you?
Click to expand...
Of course not. And neigher have the PI calls. Should we get rid of those? Or holding?
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And of course not as well, but we will not be adding one more layer of ridiculous poorly-defined judgment calls to the mix.Hey that was a great 3rd and 1 off-tackle plunge for a first.... no it wasn't, RB hit a linebacker on teh way through the hole. Never mind. hey, let's pass.
 
'sho nuff said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'sho nuff said:
Putting their head down to push forward...and doing so leading with the drown to deliver a blow are completely different things...and they are pretty easy to see for most reasonable people.
Click to expand...
And every defensive head-to-head penalty has looked good to you, has it? All those calls have been 100% reasonable to you?
Click to expand...
No more than every holding call or non-holding...or pass interference.Nothing is 100%...so nice straw man.Seems all you have to go on right now.But oh...its so destructive and apparently the best part of the game to you is a RB dropping his helmet to lead with the crown and hit a defender.
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I didn't say the best part of the game, I said one of, and yes Earl Campbell was one of the best parts of the game and it was because of plays like that.
 
Are hits to the chin safer? Don't they also cause concussions? If the NFL really wants to get serious they would require safer helmets and mouthpieces for all players.

 
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'sho nuff said:
'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'sho nuff said:
Putting their head down to push forward...and doing so leading with the drown to deliver a blow are completely different things...and they are pretty easy to see for most reasonable people.
Click to expand...
And every defensive head-to-head penalty has looked good to you, has it? All those calls have been 100% reasonable to you?
Click to expand...
No more than every holding call or non-holding...or pass interference.Nothing is 100%...so nice straw man.Seems all you have to go on right now.But oh...its so destructive and apparently the best part of the game to you is a RB dropping his helmet to lead with the crown and hit a defender.
Click to expand...
I didn't say the best part of the game, I said one of, and yes Earl Campbell was one of the best parts of the game and it was because of plays like that.
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And today Earl Campbell can't move and is one of the poster boys for why things need to change.Again, using Campbell as an example does not help prove your point here...it only strengthens your opposition.
 
Player safety in the NFL and the long-term impact the game leaves on players has taken on heightened exposure in recent years, but Campbell said he believes the league is taking the right steps."They are doing a lot of good things in trying to prevent guys from just getting all beat up to where they can't live a productive life," Campbell said.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8395536/nfl-great-earl-campbell-nerve-treatmentKeep using Earl Campbell as your example...please do. :lmao:
 
'Concept Coop said:
'Amused to Death said:
Are hits to the chin safer? Don't they also cause concussions? If the NFL really wants to get serious they would require safer helmets and mouthpieces for all players.
Click to expand...
Why is it chin or crown?
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I only referenced 'chin' because of Smith's comment:“If I’m a running back and I’m running into a linebacker, you’re telling me I have to keep my head up so he can take my chin off?’’ Smith said Thursday in an exclusive interview with Dallas radio station 105.3 The Fan. “You’ve absolutely lost your mind.’’
 
'Amused to Death said:
'Concept Coop said:
'Amused to Death said:
Are hits to the chin safer? Don't they also cause concussions? If the NFL really wants to get serious they would require safer helmets and mouthpieces for all players.
Click to expand...
Why is it chin or crown?
Click to expand...
I only referenced 'chin' because of Smith's comment:“If I’m a running back and I’m running into a linebacker, you’re telling me I have to keep my head up so he can take my chin off?’’ Smith said Thursday in an exclusive interview with Dallas radio station 105.3 The Fan. “You’ve absolutely lost your mind.’’
Click to expand...
Seems he has lost his mind...and not actually read or understood the rule (like a lot of people here)Nobody told him he has to keep his head up so a guy can hit him in the chin.
 
'sho nuff said:
Player safety in the NFL and the long-term impact the game leaves on players has taken on heightened exposure in recent years, but Campbell said he believes the league is taking the right steps."They are doing a lot of good things in trying to prevent guys from just getting all beat up to where they can't live a productive life," Campbell said.
Click to expand...
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8395536/nfl-great-earl-campbell-nerve-treatmentKeep using Earl Campbell as your example...please do. :lmao:
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Ok, Jim Riggins, Walter Payton, Joe Perry, Marshawn Lynch, Eric Dickerson, Mario Bates, Peyton Hillis, Bernard Pierece, Bilal Powell, take your pick - RB's putting their heads down to gain extra yards is an important part of the game.This rule will not save anyone's brain, but it will lead to more passing, less sucecss and attempts running on short yardage, stupid & bad game changing calls with little grounds, RB's/WRs getting whistled when there was nothing they could have possibly done about it, and maybe even more RB's/WRs getting hurt when they fail to protect themselves because they are too worried about a penalty to put their head down. Talk about straw men.
 
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'SaintsInDome2006 said:
'sho nuff said:
Player safety in the NFL and the long-term impact the game leaves on players has taken on heightened exposure in recent years, but Campbell said he believes the league is taking the right steps.

"They are doing a lot of good things in trying to prevent guys from just getting all beat up to where they can't live a productive life," Campbell said.
Click to expand...
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8395536/nfl-great-earl-campbell-nerve-treatmentKeep using Earl Campbell as your example...please do.

:lmao:
Click to expand...
Ok, Jim Riggins, Walter Payton, Joe Perry, Marshawn Lynch, Eric Dickerson, Mario Bates, Peyton Hillis, Bernard Pierece, Bilal Powell, take your pick - RB's putting their heads down to gain extra yards is an important part of the game.This rule will not save anyone's brain, but it will lead to more passing, less sucecss and attempts running on short yardage, stupid & bad game changing calls with little grounds, RB's/WRs getting whistled when there was nothing they could have possibly done about it, and maybe even more RB's/WRs getting hurt when they fail to protect themselves because they are too worried about a penalty to put their head down. Talk about straw men.
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Jim? Seems maybe you took a few too many blows to the head. :unsure: Again...its not about just lowering your head...this is not outlawing that.

Initiating contact with the crown of the helmet would be a foul if a tackler or a runner does it when both players are outside the tackle box. Incidental contact with the crown of the helmet would not be a penalty.
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And you have no idea what the effect of this rule will do as far as safety.
 
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'SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok, Jim Riggins, Walter Payton, Joe Perry, Marshawn Lynch, Eric Dickerson, Mario Bates, Peyton Hillis, Bernard Pierece, Bilal Powell, take your pick - RB's putting their heads down to gain extra yards is an important part of the game.

This rule will not save anyone's brain, but it will lead to more passing, less sucecss and attempts running on short yardage, stupid & bad game changing calls with little grounds, RB's/WRs getting whistled when there was nothing they could have possibly done about it, and maybe even more RB's/WRs getting hurt when they fail to protect themselves because they are too worried about a penalty to put their head down. Talk about straw men.
Click to expand...
Irony.

Putting your head down does not mean leading with your crown. And, again, leading with your crown is not protecting yourself.

 
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