KellysHeroes

Alfred Morris, why is he rated so low

737 posts in this topic

:confused:

I know were all afraid of Shanahan's shenanigans, but for this kid to not be anyone's top 10 RB rankings is ridiculous. If the Morris owner is selling him below RB top 10 I think you gotta act fast.

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There's a lot of good RBs, and this year - unlike last - many of them arent coming off injuries. I can see him outside of the Top 10. I think he has a high floor but low ceiling. Shanny isnt helping him.

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The perception is that RG3 and the read-option opens up the running lanes, and with RG3's future partially up in the air, it makes people pause.

They're partially right, but Morris is also a talented runner. The way he finishes runs is impressive. Very good football player. I could see the Skins bringing in a passing down specialist if he doesn't continue to progress in that area. But while healthy, I don't see anyone else touching 1st and 2nd down, short yardage, or goal line work, other than to spell him.

Edited by ConnSKINS26

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Shanahingans works in his favor. Egomaniac Shanahan surely cherishes the perception that he discovered another 6th rd feature back. As with TD, because he's an average talent with a great work ethic, his value is tied more to the OL and health than anything else.

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People are idiots, thats why. Even after Shanny gives him 315 plus touches, they still think he is holding him back. He doesnt catch passes? Yet still managed to rack up 1600 plus yards. He find the endzone?

So what is the problem? People like McFadden over this guy, and McFadden has never stayed healthy or sniffed the production Morris has.

Just plain hype of others I guess and he is slippin. Get him on the cheap if you can.

I couldnt move him for Murray or McFadden straight up according tot he other owners in my league.

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

I wouldn't be surprised by any of this but I would be surprised if Morris wasn't the starter throughout the season. He's a young stud.

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

I would bet we'll draft a passing-down back, quick and dangerous in the receiving game, in the 4th or later.I'd be very surprised if we used a pick in the first three rounds on a RB though. Veteran competition isn't out of the question, but a guy like Bradshaw is likely to be way out of our price range. We're right up against the cap and still haven't made any further cuts/restructures to make room for our draft picks even.

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I am not very interested in him because I see him as a replaceable NFL player. If he goes down or starts to fumble, Royster will step in and have no problem running the ball. Once that happens, we are right back to the 2012 offseason situation. Being a good running back does not translate into being a good zone running back (dmac last year) and vice versa (alfred last year). If anything goes wrong with him this season, you can stick a fork in him. imo

Edited by flc735

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs. If Alfred Morris was a first round pick and put up the numbers he did last year he would be in everyone's top ten. Since Morris was a sixth round pick, however, people are slow to accept what Morris did last year as something he's capable of year-in and year-out. People were similarly slow to accept the late round pick Tom Brady as a legitimate talent at the beginning of his career.

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs. If Alfred Morris was a first round pick and put up the numbers he did last year he would be in everyone's top ten. Since Morris was a sixth round pick, however, people are slow to accept what Morris did last year as something he's capable of year-in and year-out. People were similarly slow to accept the late round pick Tom Brady as a legitimate talent at the beginning of his career.

This is true. I think many people have an inaccurate perception of Shanny. If/when he finds a guy he can rely on, he'll ride him out. That hasn't been the case since he's been in Washington until now. I think it's clear that Morris is the guy barring injury of course. 1600 yards as a rookie isn't normal and Shanny understands that better than any of us.

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

no money and lack of picks for that

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs. If Alfred Morris was a first round pick and put up the numbers he did last year he would be in everyone's top ten. Since Morris was a sixth round pick, however, people are slow to accept what Morris did last year as something he's capable of year-in and year-out. People were similarly slow to accept the late round pick Tom Brady as a legitimate talent at the beginning of his career.

I wouldn't say that. People were all in on Foster after 3 games and the season opener. Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Portis, Charles...They were all drafted late and value highly after their first successful season.

Slaton was valued very highly after his rookie season. He was is a very similar situation, actually. He was drafted late. Was labeled a 3rd down back (vs alfred's goal line back label). Zone scheme. Slaton had 1619 total yards, 10 TDs and 50 rec. Alf had 1683, 13 and 7.

After Slaton's rookie season, he was being drafted in the 1.09-1.12 range in both dyno and redraft leagues.

Tom Brady had the same kind of initial season Sad Bradford did (Brady won the SB, Braford won ROY) and they were both valued about the same the following year.

Edited by flc735

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Portis was a 2nd round pick and Charles a 3rd.

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... and Larry Johnson was a 1st rounder (27th overall).

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People are idiots, thats why. Even after Shanny gives him 315 plus touches, they still think he is holding him back. He doesnt catch passes? Yet still managed to rack up 1600 plus yards. He find the endzone?

So what is the problem? People like McFadden over this guy, and McFadden has never stayed healthy or sniffed the production Morris has.

I am no longer a McFadden apologist, I think his injuries have taken away his elite speed... HOWEVER...

He had 1664 yards from scrimmage and 10 TDs in 13 games in 2010. That is most certainly "sniffing the production Morris has."

Just saying.

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

I would bet we'll draft a passing-down back, quick and dangerous in the receiving game, in the 4th or later.

I'd be very surprised if we used a pick in the first three rounds on a RB though. Veteran competition isn't out of the question, but a guy like Bradshaw is likely to be way out of our price range. We're right up against the cap and still haven't made any further cuts/restructures to make room for our draft picks even.

They already have Roy Helu Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Helu

On November 6, 2011, in a game against the 49ers, Helu set the Redskins' franchise record of most receptions in single game with 14 catches.

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Portis was a 2nd round pick and Charles a 3rd.

... and Larry Johnson was a 1st rounder (27th overall).

LJ put up a total of 85 yards his rookie year. A lot of people saw him in the same way we see pead right now (not saying pead is good). Charles was sitting on ff waivers for his first few seasons. I remember picking up kolby smith over charles because i saw an opportunity at RB in KC.To add another: People bought into D Murray pretty quickly. He was on track to be a 1st round ff pick until he got hurt. Colston, Boldin, Tampa Mike Williams, marshall, finley, pierre thomasDespite thier late round pedegree, we bought into these guys pretty quickly

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I'm a big Morris fan who thinks anyone who mentions Mike Shanahan is guilty of underrating him. Alfred Morris is a substantially better RB than Olandis Gary, Reuben Droughns, Mike Bell, Tatum Bell, Selvin Young, what-have-you. He's not as good as Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis, but he's probably as good as Mike Anderson, a tremendously underrated back who would have been a perennial fantasy stud if not for Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis (and an unfortunate injury in preseason 2004). Given Washington's lack of draft picks, I don't see Shanahan making a luxury pick of an RB in the second round, even if a Portis-like talent falls like it did in 2002, and there's no Terrell Davis already on the roster, so I think Morris has that job on lockdown, even if he fumbles or starts slowly next year.

With that said, I can easily see an argument for having Morris 10th at RB. I think Adrian Peterson, Jamaal Charles, Marshawn Lynch, and C.J. Spiller are all better talents. Trent Richardson probably is, as well. Martin, Rice, and McCoy are workhorses like Morris, but they get involved in the passing game, too. Arian Foster is the biggest TD machine in the league today. I think you can be a big Morris believer and still prefer those 9 names in Dynasty or Redraft. I think once you start getting beyond that, it starts getting a little bit silly, though. There's no way I'd pass on Alfred Morris to grab Darren McFadden or Demarco Murray at this point.

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Portis was a 2nd round pick and Charles a 3rd.

... and Larry Johnson was a 1st rounder (27th overall).

LJ put up a total of 85 yards his rookie year. A lot of people saw him in the same way we see pead right now (not saying pead is good). Charles was sitting on ff waivers for his first few seasons. I remember picking up kolby smith over charles because i saw an opportunity at RB in KC.To add another: People bought into D Murray pretty quickly. He was on track to be a 1st round ff pick until he got hurt. Colston, Boldin, Tampa Mike Williams, marshall, finley, pierre thomasDespite thier late round pedegree, we bought into these guys pretty quickly
Anquan Boldin was a 2nd rounder. Demarco Murray was a 3rd. Mike Williams was a 4th rounder, but he fell that far due to character concerns- he had a huge bandwagon and hype thread before he'd ever played a single meaningful snap. Brandon Marshall was a 4th as well, but he also fell due to character concerns and had a big following- he was nicknamed "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" after the excited shriek Sigmund Bloom uttered whenever his name was mentioned.I think Foster and Colston are interesting analogies. Very weak pedigree, very little hype before they started producing. Probably the closest match to Alfred Morris in terms of perception immediately before their big season. I think it's interesting to ask why everyone warmed so quickly to Foster and Colston and so slowly to Morris- is it all the Shanahan effect? Is it all a result of the eyeball test? Were Foster and Colston perceived to be in a better situation? Some combination of the three?

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Portis was a 2nd round pick and Charles a 3rd.

... and Larry Johnson was a 1st rounder (27th overall).

LJ put up a total of 85 yards his rookie year. A lot of people saw him in the same way we see pead right now (not saying pead is good). Charles was sitting on ff waivers for his first few seasons. I remember picking up kolby smith over charles because i saw an opportunity at RB in KC.

To add another: People bought into D Murray pretty quickly. He was on track to be a 1st round ff pick until he got hurt.

Colston, Boldin, Tampa Mike Williams, marshall, finley, pierre thomas

Despite thier late round pedegree, we bought into these guys pretty quickly

Charles came on strong at the end of his rookie year and was very good in his second year, I'm not sure where this is coming from.

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People are idiots, thats why. Even after Shanny gives him 315 plus touches, they still think he is holding him back. He doesnt catch passes? Yet still managed to rack up 1600 plus yards. He find the endzone?

So what is the problem? People like McFadden over this guy, and McFadden has never stayed healthy or sniffed the production Morris has.

Just plain hype of others I guess and he is slippin. Get him on the cheap if you can.

I couldnt move him for Murray or McFadden straight up according tot he other owners in my league.

They do? Maybe in your leagues.

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Portis was a 2nd round pick and Charles a 3rd.

... and Larry Johnson was a 1st rounder (27th overall).

LJ put up a total of 85 yards his rookie year. A lot of people saw him in the same way we see pead right now (not saying pead is good). Charles was sitting on ff waivers for his first few seasons. I remember picking up kolby smith over charles because i saw an opportunity at RB in KC.To add another: People bought into D Murray pretty quickly. He was on track to be a 1st round ff pick until he got hurt. Colston, Boldin, Tampa Mike Williams, marshall, finley, pierre thomasDespite thier late round pedegree, we bought into these guys pretty quickly
Wow... I thought you might come back and say something like, "Oh, well, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about".... but you followed it up with that.

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People are idiots, thats why. Even after Shanny gives him 315 plus touches, they still think he is holding him back. He doesnt catch passes? Yet still managed to rack up 1600 plus yards. He find the endzone?

So what is the problem? People like McFadden over this guy, and McFadden has never stayed healthy or sniffed the production Morris has.

Just plain hype of others I guess and he is slippin. Get him on the cheap if you can.

I couldnt move him for Murray or McFadden straight up according tot he other owners in my league.

They do? Maybe in your leagues.
Yes, Tiberas on this board to be exact. Says he would not do McFadden for Morris straight. But then again, I'm the champ of the league, maybe people thinking like that is why.

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs. If Alfred Morris was a first round pick and put up the numbers he did last year he would be in everyone's top ten. Since Morris was a sixth round pick, however, people are slow to accept what Morris did last year as something he's capable of year-in and year-out. People were similarly slow to accept the late round pick Tom Brady as a legitimate talent at the beginning of his career.

Many of us accepted Brady as a good NFL QB while not seeing his potential to be a stud FF QB. People can forget that the difference in talent between most 1st round picks and late picks is very small (the few elite talents being the exception - and they still need to have the work ethic and attention to detail many people lack).

But I disagree with the premise that his draft pedigree is the issue for Morris. Just anecdotally, in our franchise draft, the backs taken in order were ADP, Richardson, Spiller, Martin, McCoy, Rice, Morris, Charles, Foster, Forte; so at least in that draft which is based on talent and future potential without much regard to situation, he's clearly a top 10 back.

Edited by FUBAR

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People are idiots, thats why. Even after Shanny gives him 315 plus touches, they still think he is holding him back. He doesnt catch passes? Yet still managed to rack up 1600 plus yards. He find the endzone?

So what is the problem? People like McFadden over this guy, and McFadden has never stayed healthy or sniffed the production Morris has.

Just plain hype of others I guess and he is slippin. Get him on the cheap if you can.

I couldnt move him for Murray or McFadden straight up according tot he other owners in my league.

They do? Maybe in your leagues.
Yes, Tiberas on this board to be exact. Says he would not do McFadden for Morris straight. But then again, I'm the champ of the league, maybe people thinking like that is why.
:lol: good for you.

But yes, taking McFadden over Morris seems silly and based only in perceived talent.

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I am not very interested in him because I see him as a replaceable NFL player. If he goes down or starts to fumble, Royster will step in and have no problem running the ball. Once that happens, we are right back to the 2012 offseason situation. Being a good running back does not translate into being a good zone running back (dmac last year) and vice versa (alfred last year). If anything goes wrong with him this season, you can stick a fork in him. imo

That would be an uneducated opinion, as the education shows that many 1600 yard back who tote the ball 300 times are not easily replaceable.In this post you brought up Royster, that Morris will fumble and he is not a good RB. LOL, do you believe your own crap? Edited by Phenix

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs. If Alfred Morris was a first round pick and put up the numbers he did last year he would be in everyone's top ten. Since Morris was a sixth round pick, however, people are slow to accept what Morris did last year as something he's capable of year-in and year-out. People were similarly slow to accept the late round pick Tom Brady as a legitimate talent at the beginning of his career.

I wouldn't say that. People were all in on Foster after 3 games and the season opener. Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Portis, Charles...They were all drafted late and value highly after their first successful season.

Slaton was valued very highly after his rookie season. He was is a very similar situation, actually. He was drafted late. Was labeled a 3rd down back (vs alfred's goal line back label). Zone scheme. Slaton had 1619 total yards, 10 TDs and 50 rec. Alf had 1683, 13 and 7.

After Slaton's rookie season, he was being drafted in the 1.09-1.12 range in both dyno and redraft leagues.

Tom Brady had the same kind of initial season Sad Bradford did (Brady won the SB, Braford won ROY) and they were both valued about the same the following year.

Sad indeed

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs.

This is it in a nutshell.

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I wouldn't say that. People were all in on Foster after 3 games and the season opener. Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Portis, Charles...They were all drafted late and value highly after their first successful season.

Johnson was a first round pick, Portis was a second round pick and Charles was a third round pick and many called Foster a "system" back well into his success.

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

I would be shocked if the Redskins signed a free agent RB. They have no cap space.

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

I would bet we'll draft a passing-down back, quick and dangerous in the receiving game, in the 4th or later.

I'd be very surprised if we used a pick in the first three rounds on a RB though. Veteran competition isn't out of the question, but a guy like Bradshaw is likely to be way out of our price range. We're right up against the cap and still haven't made any further cuts/restructures to make room for our draft picks even.

They already have Roy Helu Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Helu

On November 6, 2011, in a game against the 49ers, Helu set the Redskins' franchise record of most receptions in single game with 14 catches.

The Redskins were definately looking at Helu as the 3rd down back early in training camp. But he got injured very early and was not healing up as the season progressed. Royster ended up being the 3rd down back. The Redskins did not throw the ball his way that often and did not have him run much either.

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I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Wash drafted a RB in the first 3 rounds, signed a guy like Bradshaw or traded for a couple decent ones. Or did all of the above

I would bet we'll draft a passing-down back, quick and dangerous in the receiving game, in the 4th or later.

I'd be very surprised if we used a pick in the first three rounds on a RB though. Veteran competition isn't out of the question, but a guy like Bradshaw is likely to be way out of our price range. We're right up against the cap and still haven't made any further cuts/restructures to make room for our draft picks even.

They already have Roy Helu Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Helu

On November 6, 2011, in a game against the 49ers, Helu set the Redskins' franchise record of most receptions in single game with 14 catches.

Helu still can't even run, coming off a major turf toe injury and Achilles problems. And he should be further ahead in his recovery, but he's not. It's worrisome.

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs. If Alfred Morris was a first round pick and put up the numbers he did last year he would be in everyone's top ten. Since Morris was a sixth round pick, however, people are slow to accept what Morris did last year as something he's capable of year-in and year-out. People were similarly slow to accept the late round pick Tom Brady as a legitimate talent at the beginning of his career.

I wouldn't say that. People were all in on Foster after 3 games and the season opener. Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Portis, Charles...They were all drafted late and value highly after their first successful season.

Slaton was valued very highly after his rookie season. He was is a very similar situation, actually. He was drafted late. Was labeled a 3rd down back (vs alfred's goal line back label). Zone scheme. Slaton had 1619 total yards, 10 TDs and 50 rec. Alf had 1683, 13 and 7.

After Slaton's rookie season, he was being drafted in the 1.09-1.12 range in both dyno and redraft leagues.

Tom Brady had the same kind of initial season Sad Bradford did (Brady won the SB, Braford won ROY) and they were both valued about the same the following year.

Sad indeed
:rolleyes:

I wouldn't say that. People were all in on Foster after 3 games and the season opener. Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Portis, Charles...They were all drafted late and value highly after their first successful season.

Johnson was a first round pick, Portis was a second round pick and Charles was a third round pick and many called Foster a "system" back well into his success.
Right, they thought he might just be a system back as they took him with the 1.1 or 1.2 startup selection...

All those guys I mentioned were not expected to be top 10 ff players at their position coming into the league (our non "pedigrees")...and all of those players were valued and drafted as studs after only 1 season (or less) of production.

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I am not very interested in him because I see him as a replaceable NFL player. If he goes down or starts to fumble, Royster will step in and have no problem running the ball. Once that happens, we are right back to the 2012 offseason situation. Being a good running back does not translate into being a good zone running back (dmac last year) and vice versa (alfred last year). If anything goes wrong with him this season, you can stick a fork in him. imo

That would be an uneducated opinion, as the education shows that many 1600 yard back who tote the ball 300 times are not easily replaceable.

In this post you brought up Royster, that Morris will fumble and he is not a good RB. LOL, do you believe your own crap?

:lmao:

I am sorry you don't understand the zone running scheme or the English langue. I will go over an easy to read summary for you:

[*]I didn't say Alf will fumble.

[*]Royster did run the ball successfully when he had the chance.

[*]Alf is a good zone running back.

[*]Alf is just a body in any other running scheme. Likely a Tony Hunt fullback tweeter that never catches on anywhere.

It is a completely different ball game than a man blocking scheme. That is why Dmac, one of the most talented running backs in the league, completely flopped in the Raiders new zone scheme last season. The skills from a traditional running back just do not translate into a zone running back.

That's why the zone scheme has produced so many productive running backs that came from nowhere (and did nothing elsewhere). Off the top of my head: Orlandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Terrell Davis, Alf, Slaton and Foster.

Tell me what the difference is between Alf and Mike Anderson?

[*]Both were drafted in the 6th round

[*]Both played for Shanny

[*]Both racked up 1600 yards in thier rookie season

[*]Both were RB/FB tweeners

[*]Both put up double digit TDs

So, what is it with Alf that is going to give him the job security that Mike Anderson didn't have?

as the education shows that many 1600 yard back who tote the ball 300 times are not easily replaceable.
Nope. Not in the zone scheme. Because it requires a specialize skill that most teams are not after. These 1500+ yard running backs kind of fall into the laps of zone running teams because no one else is after them.

It is easy to say these players would have been just as good elsewhere but you know what? You can't say that. None of them have. Before you take me out of context, I do think Foster and Davis would have been good on other teams, but not nearly as good as they were/are in their zone schemes. The rest of them, including Alf would be and will be career journeymen in any other system.

I can only think of 1 "successful" example. Portis had back to back seasons averaging 108 yards rushing per game, 5.5 YPC and 15 TDs. The next 2 years in Washington, he averaged 91 yards rushing per game, 4 YPC and 9 TDs.

That's just my "uneducated" opinion.

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I am sorry you don't understand the English langue.

:lmao:

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I am sorry you don't understand the English langue.

:lmao:
:goodposting:

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People are slow to accept "non-pedigree" studs. If Alfred Morris was a first round pick and put up the numbers he did last year he would be in everyone's top ten. Since Morris was a sixth round pick, however, people are slow to accept what Morris did last year as something he's capable of year-in and year-out. People were similarly slow to accept the late round pick Tom Brady as a legitimate talent at the beginning of his career.

I don't think that's it at all. Look at Arian Foster. Universally accepted as one of the best RB in the game for fantasy purposes. And he was un drafted. BUT, put him under shanny and his stock would drop immediately.

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