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Alfred Morris, why is he rated so low

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Rotoworld:

The Washington Times expects the Redskins to "tilt away" from the zone-blocking scheme and incorporate more power concepts under new coach Jay Gruden.

Gruden's background is indeed in power running, and Washington's obvious offseason effort to get bigger in the trenches suggests the Shanahans' system will be gradually scrapped. It's something of a concern for Alfred Morris, who also offers very little in the passing game. We like Morris to stay in the 270-carry range this season, but clearing 300 like he did as a rookie is unrealistic with more emphasis on the pass. His YPC average could also take a hit.

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Anyone possibly see an uptick in catches for Morris? that is what they are working on with gruden. I like him to have a better year in PPR.

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it's going to be a big year for Helu..he'll be the receiver out of the backfield.this is now a full-blown RBBC with Gruden calling plays.

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it's going to be a big year for Helu..he'll be the receiver out of the backfield.this is now a full-blown RBBC with Gruden calling plays.

:no: Looks like Helu owners are in denial.

Lets entertain you comment for a second. Hasnt Morris always been useless on pass plays? What team doesnt have some sort of RBBC? BJGE had 300 total touches last year, the year before people realized he is not good, under Gruden. Helu is not a good player, he is just a guy, Morris is not. I thought people who watched football knew this or could figure it out.

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it's going to be a big year for Helu..he'll be the receiver out of the backfield.this is now a full-blown RBBC with Gruden calling plays.

Based on what? Last year's Cincy team? I think you should give Gruden more credit than that. He seems to be able to use the pieces he's got. In 2012 there was no RBBC in Cincy. If Gruden likes Helu then I'm sure he'll see the field. If he prefers Morris then I could see Morris being the bellcow again. I don't think anyone can really know how this situation is going to play out. It's all guess work at this point.

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it's going to be a big year for Helu..he'll be the receiver out of the backfield.this is now a full-blown RBBC with Gruden calling plays.

This is pure cliche drivel based on complete BS.

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When the Redskins trade for Gio Bernard I'll start worrying about Morris' production.

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Morris is going into the season as a perplexing RB. While it's a cop out answer, I think his true takent level is somewhere between his first 2 years so in the 1400 yards, 10 TD range. He loses value in PPR based on those stats but for what you give up in points, you gain in the fact that he hasn't missed time and doesn't have goal line opportunities taken away often.

I suspect that when draft season goes into full effect he will be a riser. In MFL10s you can get him in the late 3rd. If the redskins rebound I think it's likely he outperforms that.

For what it's worth I'd take him in the Murray, Bell range of drafts. I like to know what I'm getting and with him it's likely 80 yards and 2/3 of a TD with 1 catch per week.

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Just based on the eye test, I think Morris is a top 5 RB. He isn't fast but he runs hard and finds the holes. He impresses me on film more than most of the guys going ahead of him. If he had been a first or second round pick in the NFL draft, I think people's perceptions of him would be much different.

Edited by Ilov80s
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Just based on the eye test, I think Morris is a top 5 RB. He isn't fast but he runs hard and finds the holes. He impresses me on film more than most of the guys going ahead of him. If he had been a first or second round pick in the NFL draft, I think people's perceptions of him would be much different.

One of if not the most under rated RBs in football. 2881 yards and 20 TDs of 611 carries in two years? Yes please. Everyone gets obsessed with the guys who catches passes in PPR and forget guys who produce like Morris does has a lot of value.

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Just based on the eye test, I think Morris is a top 5 RB. He isn't fast but he runs hard and finds the holes. He impresses me on film more than most of the guys going ahead of him. If he had been a first or second round pick in the NFL draft, I think people's perceptions of him would be much different.

One of if not the most under rated RBs in football. 2881 yards and 20 TDs of 611 carries in two years? Yes please. Everyone gets obsessed with the guys who catches passes in PPR and forget guys who produce like Morris does has a lot of value.

Right, he's top 6 or 7 in rushing yards in NFL history for a RB after 2 years. 4.8 and 4.6 yards per carry. No injury history. If he was a 2nd round pick from a big school like Texas, people would be talking about him in the Forte/Lacy range.

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Just based on the eye test, I think Morris is a top 5 RB. He isn't fast but he runs hard and finds the holes. He impresses me on film more than most of the guys going ahead of him. If he had been a first or second round pick in the NFL draft, I think people's perceptions of him would be much different.

One of if not the most under rated RBs in football. 2881 yards and 20 TDs of 611 carries in two years? Yes please. Everyone gets obsessed with the guys who catches passes in PPR and forget guys who produce like Morris does has a lot of value.

Right, he's top 6 or 7 in rushing yards in NFL history for a RB after 2 years. 4.8 and 4.6 yards per carry. No injury history. If he was a 2nd round pick from a big school like Texas, people would be talking about him in the Forte/Lacy range.

To be fair, they don't talk about him in that range because his upside is based on TD production (vs PPR production)which is tied heavily to the team as a whole. All RBs are to an extent, but the guys who rarely make catches tend to be more up and down based on scoring or not.

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Just based on the eye test, I think Morris is a top 5 RB. He isn't fast but he runs hard and finds the holes. He impresses me on film more than most of the guys going ahead of him. If he had been a first or second round pick in the NFL draft, I think people's perceptions of him would be much different.

One of if not the most under rated RBs in football. 2881 yards and 20 TDs of 611 carries in two years? Yes please. Everyone gets obsessed with the guys who catches passes in PPR and forget guys who produce like Morris does has a lot of value.

Right, he's top 6 or 7 in rushing yards in NFL history for a RB after 2 years. 4.8 and 4.6 yards per carry. No injury history. If he was a 2nd round pick from a big school like Texas, people would be talking about him in the Forte/Lacy range.
To be fair, they don't talk about him in that range because his upside is based on TD production (vs PPR production)which is tied heavily to the team as a whole. All RBs are to an extent, but the guys who rarely make catches tend to be more up and down based on scoring or not.
I get that and the change in coaching staff. But he's going late 2nd to even 3rd round in a lot of mocks/rankings. That's ridiculous for one of the most prolific rushers in the NFL on a high powered offense. He only scored 7 TDs last year. It's hard to imagine him not bettering that this season. Edited by Ilov80s

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I love how everyone assumes he will not catch passes or cant catch passes. Shanny clearly did not throw the ball to him, does that mean Gruden wont? Maybe Gruden has planned to use him in such a matter.

He has caught 20 of 28 targets in his career, so they just are not throwing it to him cause he can catch.

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I love how everyone assumes he will not catch passes or cant catch passes. Shanny clearly did not throw the ball to him, does that mean Gruden wont? Maybe Gruden has planned to use him in such a matter.

He has caught 20 of 28 targets in his career, so they just are not throwing it to him cause he can catch.

I have to think we might see a slight increase. Maybe 15 receptions. It is hard for a #1 RB not to get that many. Also, it seems weird for some RBs not get receptions or for people to think they can't catch the ball out of the backfield. They are world class quick and nimble athletes, I don't understand what is so hard about catching a football? Especially considering 90% of the catches are short dump-offs, it's not like many of them are being asked to run a post and make a leaping catch in traffic. It seems like every RB should consistently be able to catch a screen or a short curl.

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I love how everyone assumes he will not catch passes or cant catch passes. Shanny clearly did not throw the ball to him, does that mean Gruden wont? Maybe Gruden has planned to use him in such a matter.

He has caught 20 of 28 targets in his career, so they just are not throwing it to him cause he can catch.

I have to think we might see a slight increase. Maybe 15 receptions. It is hard for a #1 RB not to get that many. Also, it seems weird for some RBs not get receptions or for people to think they can't catch the ball out of the backfield. They are world class quick and nimble athletes, I don't understand what is so hard about catching a football? Especially considering 90% of the catches are short dump-offs, it's not like many of them are being asked to run a post and make a leaping catch in traffic. It seems like every RB should consistently be able to catch a screen or a short curl.

There are such things like hands of stone. However alf only had about 30 catches in his 3 years as a starter in college. In standard he shou1ld be a border1line rb1 rb2. In ppr hes going to be a rb2. He simply wont get enough touches like his rookie season to be a rb1 in ppr again unless you think he gets close to 15 tds

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I sold Alf for Djax and a 2nd rounder and felt great about it. Morris was a volume back with low carries last year and in a PPR league I wanted nothing to do with him. I'm starting to have buyers remorse though, I think that offense will be so productive he will be closer to his rookie year production.

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I love how everyone assumes he will not catch passes or cant catch passes. Shanny clearly did not throw the ball to him, does that mean Gruden wont? Maybe Gruden has planned to use him in such a matter.

He has caught 20 of 28 targets in his career, so they just are not throwing it to him cause he can catch.

yep. Folks should go back and watch this past pro bowl. He lead the team in receiving. 4 catches for 69 yards. I think he will be fine.

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I love how everyone assumes he will not catch passes or cant catch passes. Shanny clearly did not throw the ball to him, does that mean Gruden wont? Maybe Gruden has planned to use him in such a matter.

He has caught 20 of 28 targets in his career, so they just are not throwing it to him cause he can catch.

yep. Folks should go back and watch this past pro bowl. He lead the team in receiving. 4 catches for 69 yards. I think he will be fine.

I remember a comment from Gruden in the off-season where he said Morris lacks "natural hands" and he "hopes" he can catch 20-25 balls. I don't think he is going to be a big receiving threat in Gruden's offense.

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I love how everyone assumes he will not catch passes or cant catch passes. Shanny clearly did not throw the ball to him, does that mean Gruden wont? Maybe Gruden has planned to use him in such a matter.

He has caught 20 of 28 targets in his career, so they just are not throwing it to him cause he can catch.

yep. Folks should go back and watch this past pro bowl. He lead the team in receiving. 4 catches for 69 yards. I think he will be fine.

I remember a comment from Gruden in the off-season where he said Morris lacks "natural hands" and he "hopes" he can catch 20-25 balls. I don't think he is going to be a big receiving threat in Gruden's offense.

he wont be a huge receiving threat. but he will get more opportunities than last year thats for sure.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

Edited by Ilov80s

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even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere)

Which of these guys got "stud contracts to go elsewhere"? Davis played his entire career @ Denver, and Gary was picked up for a song in a trade. Travis Henry wasn't a Shanahan RB, he had success with the Bills before going to Denver.

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even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere)

Which of these guys got "stud contracts to go elsewhere"? Davis played his entire career @ Denver, and Gary was picked up for a song in a trade. Travis Henry wasn't a Shanahan RB, he had success with the Bills before going to Denver.

He has some facts wrong, but the idea that Shanny got some success out of RBs that were mediocre at best is true. That said, if you look at Morris' numbers, they are a lot closer to what Portis and TD did than Tatum Bell or Mike Anderson.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

This is my point and the thing I think everyone is forgetting with all those weapons on the outside how do you stop the running game if you can't put 8 in the box and the ends gotta worry about RGlll getting outside? His running lanes will be huge!!! I think he scores close to 20 TDs this yr! Edited by hotboyz

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

This is my point and the thing I think everyone is forgetting with all those weapons on the outside how do you stop the running game if you can't put 8 in the box and the ends gotta worry about RGlll getting outside? His running lanes will be huge!!! I think he scores close to 20 TDs this yr!
20 tds? Based on this logic you must be really high on trent richardson too

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if he's there at pick #4 in rd 3, he's mine. I think he will have a really good especially with RG3 healthy. DJax will help open up the running game too.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

This is my point and the thing I think everyone is forgetting with all those weapons on the outside how do you stop the running game if you can't put 8 in the box and the ends gotta worry about RGlll getting outside? His running lanes will be huge!!! I think he scores close to 20 TDs this yr!

I was thinking more like 1300 and 10-13.

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I love how everyone assumes he will not catch passes or cant catch passes. Shanny clearly did not throw the ball to him, does that mean Gruden wont? Maybe Gruden has planned to use him in such a matter.

He has caught 20 of 28 targets in his career, so they just are not throwing it to him cause he can catch.

yep. Folks should go back and watch this past pro bowl. He lead the team in receiving. 4 catches for 69 yards. I think he will be fine.

I remember a comment from Gruden in the off-season where he said Morris lacks "natural hands" and he "hopes" he can catch 20-25 balls. I don't think he is going to be a big receiving threat in Gruden's offense.

:link:

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even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere)

Which of these guys got "stud contracts to go elsewhere"? Davis played his entire career @ Denver, and Gary was picked up for a song in a trade. Travis Henry wasn't a Shanahan RB, he had success with the Bills before going to Denver.

He has some facts wrong, but the idea that Shanny got some success out of RBs that were mediocre at best is true.

The problem with this hypothesis is, the only successful RB in Shanahan's system to play for another team when young and healthy was Clinton Portis. And he did pretty well with the Redskins for a few years. And it's not like Morris is going to an all new team; it's just a new coach.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

This is my point and the thing I think everyone is forgetting with all those weapons on the outside how do you stop the running game if you can't put 8 in the box and the ends gotta worry about RGlll getting outside? His running lanes will be huge!!! I think he scores close to 20 TDs this yr!
20 tds? Based on this logic you must be really high on trent richardson too

Wtf would that have to do with Trent Richardson? Trent's a bum Alfred Morris one of the best between the tackles runners in football. He's also best runner in Fotball after contact and he led the NFL in rushes over 20 yds last yr. Now you factor his talent and now the outstanding supporting cast he's set. Up for a very good season.

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even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere)

Which of these guys got "stud contracts to go elsewhere"? Davis played his entire career @ Denver, and Gary was picked up for a song in a trade. Travis Henry wasn't a Shanahan RB, he had success with the Bills before going to Denver.

If you're going to claim my info is wrong, at least check?

I agree that I was wrong and Terrell was always a Bronco - my recall was that he'd had a last year elsewhere - but I noted the decline there was due to age. But O. Gary carried for 1,159 and 4.2 ypc as a Bronco in '99 and for 4+ ypc every year in Denver and then for 384 yards at 3.4 ypc in DET. Mike Anderson carried for 1,014 and 4.2 as Bronc in '05, followed by 183 yards the next year in BAL. Travis Henry WAS a Shanny Bronco in '07 and carried for over 4 ypc, after 3 years in BUF and TEN averaging less than that - although I'll admit the difference here wasn't as dramatic as for Gary, Anderson and Bell. There is still a very clear pattern of guys showing a far better run game under Shanny than they do when is a different system. I think not taking that into account with Morris is pretty much sticking your head in the sand.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

Good posts. I think both of you guys are raising the most relevant considerations with Morris. I generally believe in him but I do wonder if his skills are more ideally fit for a ZBS. More than anything the article that Faust linked above from the Washington Times about the Redskins moving toward more power running concepts seems of primary relevance imo. It does sound like conjecture, though, based on what Gruden did in Cincinnati. Sometimes I think coaches get connected with rigid associations (among fans and sportswriters) with offensive or defensive systems when the reality is that many of them are smart and more flexible, and capable of building plays around changing personnel. In that sense I'm not ready to assume Gruden will simply transpose his approach while at Cincy into the way he builds his offense in WAS. Hopefully preseason tells us a bit about how Morris works with any actual changes in the blocking scheme. To me, though, he really did look at home as a one-cut runner, clearly one of the best in the league.

As for Gruden's comment that Morris doesn't have "natural hands," he did say that back in March:

Redskins still looking for pass-catching RB
March, 27, 2014
By John Keim | ESPN.com

Alfred Morris’ hands haven’t matched his legs when it comes to production. His involvement in the Redskins’ passing game has been minimal. And while Redskins coach Jay Gruden would like to see that change, don’t expect Morris to turn into anything more than an occasional threat.

But that would be more than what Morris was during his first two seasons when he caught a combined 20 passes. He showed good hands at the Pro Bowl, catching four passes for 69 yards. However, his hands were inconsistent in the regular season.

“It’s something that, obviously, you want to have him be an all-around back. His hands aren’t the most natural but it’s something you can work on,” Gruden said. “You don’t have to run go-[routes]. If you can catch a standard checkdown or screen pass, he could catch 20 to 25 balls a year. It just adds to his resume of being one of the top backs in the league. Yeah, we’ll work on him quite a bit as far as catching the ball.”

But that doesn’t mean he’ll suddenly turn into Giovani Bernard, Gruden’s pass-catching back in Cincinnati. The question then becomes: will any of the Redskins' backs? Gruden mentioned Roy Helu and Chris Thompson as possibilities. Thompson's rookie season ended with a torn labrum in his shoulder, which followed knee and back injuries at Florida State.

“We have some guys in-house we feel like can do it, but obviously you like to have some versatility and the ability to have another guy who could be a specialty-type third-down guy,” Gruden said. “But with Roy and Chris, we have those guys who could possibly take that role. But we’ll keep looking.”

Edited by DAG

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

This is my point and the thing I think everyone is forgetting with all those weapons on the outside how do you stop the running game if you can't put 8 in the box and the ends gotta worry about RGlll getting outside? His running lanes will be huge!!! I think he scores close to 20 TDs this yr!
20 tds? Based on this logic you must be really high on trent richardson too
Wtf would that have to do with Trent Richardson? Trent's a bum Alfred Morris one of the best between the tackles runners in football. He's also best runner in Fotball after contact and he led the NFL in rushes over 20 yds last yr. Now you factor his talent and now the outstanding supporting cast he's set. Up for a very good season.
why so defensive? I simply compared the situations of both rbs not the rbs themselves. Luck is a mobile qb with as many weapons as rg3 so based on your logic trich should be a steal at his adp

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Anyone possibly see an uptick in catches for Morris? that is what they are working on with gruden. I like him to have a better year in PPR.

9 & 11 receptions in his first two years respectively. I think he's a stud Runner, but much like a Michael Turner or even AP , he's gotta run for 1300 yards and 10+ TDs to be a top 8-10 RB in PPR.

I think 20-30 receptions will be a best case this season. I do think he'll put up great rushing stats, so I'd take him as a RB1 in non-PPR or if I went RB late in PPR, where he's more of a solid RB2.

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If you're going to claim my info is wrong, at least check?

I did, and everything you said in your post was wrong.

None of the people on your list got "stud contracts to play somewhere else".

The only two people who left Denver in their relative prime, while healthy, to play somewhere else were Clinton Portis and Reuben Droughns. Both played well for their new teams. Droughns was the best RB Cleveland had seen in 20 years.

Davis never played anywhere else.

Gary tore his ACL and was a FA signing @ Buffalo who was traded to Detroit for nothing.

Anderson signed with the Ravens @ 33 years old because they had just lost Chester Taylor to the Vikings and thought they were losing Jamal Lewis as well. He got a decent contract for his age, but it was an emergency signing since they had no proven RBs on their roster at the time.

Travis Henry was a stud RB with the Bills and had a good season with the Titans before going to Denver.

This notion that the Broncos churned out a bunch of RBs who left and were busts elsewhere has no basis in reality.

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If you're going to claim my info is wrong, at least check?

Travis Henry WAS a Shanny Bronco in '07 and carried for over 4 ypc, after 3 years in BUF and TEN averaging less than that -

Henry as a starter in Buffalo - 4.5 and 4.1 YPC.

Henry as a starter in Tennessee - 4.5

Henry in Denver (one year) - 4.1

Anything else you'd like me to check?

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Just based on the eye test, I think Morris is a top 5 RB. He isn't fast but he runs hard and finds the holes. He impresses me on film more than most of the guys going ahead of him. If he had been a first or second round pick in the NFL draft, I think people's perceptions of him would be much different.

One of if not the most under rated RBs in football. 2881 yards and 20 TDs of 611 carries in two years? Yes please. Everyone gets obsessed with the guys who catches passes in PPR and forget guys who produce like Morris does has a lot of value.

Right, he's top 6 or 7 in rushing yards in NFL history for a RB after 2 years. 4.8 and 4.6 yards per carry. No injury history.

a lot of the perception probably has to do w/ the fact he was running in a Shanahan offence w/ Bobby Turner as his RB coach and now those guys are gone.

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Davis never played anywhere else.

Gary tore his ACL and was a FA signing @ Buffalo who was traded to Detroit for nothing.

Anderson signed with the Ravens @ 33 years old because they had just lost Chester Taylor to the Vikings and thought they were losing Jamal Lewis as well. He got a decent contract for his age, but it was an emergency signing since they had no proven RBs on their roster at the time.

Travis Henry was a stud RB with the Bills and had a good season with the Titans before going to Denver.

This notion that the Broncos churned out a bunch of RBs who left and were busts elsewhere has no basis in reality.

Henry as a starter in Buffalo - 4.5 and 4.1 YPC.

Henry as a starter in Tennessee - 4.5

Henry in Denver (one year) - 4.1

Anything else you'd like me to check?

I don't want to get into a pissing contest over what the numbers say when anyone can read them for themselves, but I disagree with your use of them and conclusions, and think you ignore some that are important. As a Bronco, Gary ran for 1,159 yards and 4.2 ypc as a rookie in 1999, Then he was running for 6.2 ypc when he tore his ACL in 2000, played two more years rushing in Denver for 4.0 ypc and at age 28 was traded to DET where he failed miserably despite high Lion hopes and had less than 400 yards and a 3.4 ypc. Anderson didn't play in the NFL until he was 27, but as a Shanny Bronco at age 32 he had over 1,000 yards at a 4.2 clip. The next year he was traded to BAL who hoped he could be a starter, but he couldn't beat out Lewis at the low ebb of his career when he was coming off a 3.4 ypc season and having a 3.6 season, and Andersonmanaged 183 yards. You choose not to mention Tatum Bell, who was a head case, but had 2 years or 900+ and 1,000+ yards and a ypc of 4.9 under Shanny. Then, he got traded to the Lions at age 26, couldn't win the starting job and kind of lost it - not that he probably ever had a great grip on life. I'm glad we now agree Travis Henry was a Shanny Bronco, and I can see why you chose to only take his numbers from the 3 good years in BUF and TEN when he had a ypc well over 4 and say he was as good or better there as in Denver. I add in the 3 bad years in BUF and TEN when he had a ypc at 3.5 and couldn't even take over the starting role and see Denver as a place he did better - but that situation was playing for Shanny after playing for someone else, and so probably isn't a great parallel for the Morris situation anyway. Droughns had his best year as a Bronco with 1,240 yards and a 4.5 ypc average at age 26. He was then traded at 27 to CLE where he had one good year with almost as many yards but a far worse 4.0 ypc than in Denver, and then 2 years below 3.4 ypc before disappearing. With Portis, Gary, Anderson, Bell and Droughns, the five Shanahan backs who went from his offense to another (all but Anderson at ages 25-28), each one other than Portis did far worse in the new system.

It doesn't mean Morris won't do better in his new offense, but I think its a solid trend and something well worth taking into consideration.

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The offense is going to be a lot better and inside the 10 a lot more, and he'll get all those carries. Huge TD season coming.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

This is my point and the thing I think everyone is forgetting with all those weapons on the outside how do you stop the running game if you can't put 8 in the box and the ends gotta worry about RGlll getting outside? His running lanes will be huge!!! I think he scores close to 20 TDs this yr!
20 tds? Based on this logic you must be really high on trent richardson too
Wtf would that have to do with Trent Richardson? Trent's a bum Alfred Morris one of the best between the tackles runners in football. He's also best runner in Fotball after contact and he led the NFL in rushes over 20 yds last yr. Now you factor his talent and now the outstanding supporting cast he's set. Up for a very good season.
why so defensive? I simply compared the situations of both rbs not the rbs themselves. Luck is a mobile qb with as many weapons as rg3 so based on your logic trich should be a steal at his adp
My bad didn't mean to sound defensive didn't kno where you were going with that one. I don't think u can compre the 2 situation I think t rich is very overrated

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The offense is going to be a lot better and inside the 10 a lot more, and he'll get all those carries. Huge TD season coming.

I couldn't agree more

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Just based on the eye test, I think Morris is a top 5 RB. He isn't fast but he runs hard and finds the holes. He impresses me on film more than most of the guys going ahead of him. If he had been a first or second round pick in the NFL draft, I think people's perceptions of him would be much different.

One of if not the most under rated RBs in football. 2881 yards and 20 TDs of 611 carries in two years? Yes please. Everyone gets obsessed with the guys who catches passes in PPR and forget guys who produce like Morris does has a lot of value.

Right, he's top 6 or 7 in rushing yards in NFL history for a RB after 2 years. 4.8 and 4.6 yards per carry. No injury history.

a lot of the perception probably has to do w/ the fact he was running in a Shanahan offence w/ Bobby Turner as his RB coach and now those guys are gone.

anytime a regime changes comes along it carries a risk to incumbent players.

Not sure I like them switching from the ZBS for Alfred

I do like the opportunity and the addition of DeSean should open things up even more, sprinkle in a healthy Jordan Reed/RG3 and Alfred could be in line for another great rushing season

As always he is discounted some in PPR due to the lack or receptions

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The offense is going to be a lot better and inside the 10 a lot more, and he'll get all those carries. Huge TD season coming.

Agreed. Remember he got vultured out of 6 TDs last year from Darrel Young and Roy Helu having random 3 TD games each.

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I don't want to get into a pissing contest over what the numbers say...

That's probably a good idea for you.

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Other than Portis, Shanahan backs have been pretty disappointing in other systems, even though some got stud contracts to go elsewhere (Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Travis Henry). That might be anecdotal (and with Davis because he was pretty old when playing elsewhere), but I think his system emphasizes different skills (cut and go, and different set up behind the line) than typical power running schemes and is a reason for concern and caution with Morris the further he gets from Shanny's zone system.

That is certainly true that the system change could be a worry. The thing I do love about the situation still is that with RG3, Garcon, DJax, and Reed, Morris should have a lot of running lanes open for him. I don't see 8 men in the box ever. Defenses can't bring a safety up too often as DJax is one of the few true, "take the top off the defense" type WRs and RG3 will always freeze DEs and OLBs with the threat of the bootleg. That offense should be threatening for highest scoring in the league.

This is my point and the thing I think everyone is forgetting with all those weapons on the outside how do you stop the running game if you can't put 8 in the box and the ends gotta worry about RGlll getting outside? His running lanes will be huge!!! I think he scores close to 20 TDs this yr!
20 tds? Based on this logic you must be really high on trent richardson too
Wtf would that have to do with Trent Richardson? Trent's a bum Alfred Morris one of the best between the tackles runners in football. He's also best runner in Fotball after contact and he led the NFL in rushes over 20 yds last yr. Now you factor his talent and now the outstanding supporting cast he's set. Up for a very good season.
why so defensive? I simply compared the situations of both rbs not the rbs themselves. Luck is a mobile qb with as many weapons as rg3 so based on your logic trich should be a steal at his adp
My bad didn't mean to sound defensive didn't kno where you were going with that one. I don't think u can compre the 2 situation I think t rich is very overrated

As a unit I don't think Indy has anything close to either DeSean Jackson or Pierre Garcon. The only way Luck has "as many weapons as rg3" is by quantity.

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