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TE Rob Gronkowski, TB (2 Viewers)

I was thinking of trying to take advantage of frustrated Gronk owners and deal for him, but after reading these last few pages of post....I'm now scared to own him.

 
per Ed Werder of ESPN:

@Edwerderespn

Just filed to ESPN that Gronk won't play again and teammates can't reconcile what he does in practice with inability to go on game day.

@Edwerderespn

Players have begun to question Gronk directly and he's becoming more uncomfortable as tension builds.
Good, Gronk deserves to get called out. I love how his camp distrusts the Pats medical team because of all this issues and surgeries yet the fact the guy was out in Vegas boozing and body slamming his boys in a cast had nothing to do with his current situation. My guess is you are looking at either Brady or a few of the offensive lineman that are calling him out.

 
Can't imagine much worse than being heckled by your teammates when the world's most famous orthopedic surgeon says you're not ready to play. Gotta suck for Gronk.

But as they say, "you're selling out your body or you're selling out your team."

 
Just gets uglier every day.

I relive when I drafted Gronk like a recurring nightmare.

Maybe watching the best TE in the league will give him some motivation to return.

 
per Ed Werder of ESPN:

@Edwerderespn
Just filed to ESPN that Gronk won't play again and teammates can't reconcile what he does in practice with inability to go on game day.

@Edwerderespn
Players have begun to question Gronk directly and he's becoming more uncomfortable as tension builds.
To be fair to those guys, Gronk just shouldn't have been at practice until he was cleared to play. I think he's reasonable not to play if he's being told that his arm isn't fully healed but it looks bad to the team if he's out there dominating in practice while they have to go out on game days without him.

 
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Tight end Rob Gronkowski's continued absence from the New England Patriots' lineup has escalated tension among teammates who have begun questioning him about why he's not playing and left some wondering if he intends to play at all this season, according to multiple sources."There's curiosity and resentment, and he's creating it by going out and kicking ### during the week and then he doesn't show up on game day and help the team win," one source said.

[snip]

Teammates, coaches and other members of the organization have watched Gronkowski practice fully for weeks -- this week he was described as dominant as New Orleans Saints tight end Jimmy Graham while taking 50 reps a day on the scout team -- and yet he has not been available on a game day.

Teammates and coaches have seen him run patterns, catch passes, use his arm to pass protect, run block and to separate from defenders at the line of scrimmage, and they doubt a doctor would allow so much contact if there remained serious concern about the health of his forearm.

They are having difficulty reconciling seeing Gronkowski perform like that and then not take the field with them for the games.

"If he's not playing in games, he damn sure should not be doing what he is in practice," said the same source who mentioned resentment.

With the Patriots entering Sunday's game against the high-scoring Saints off a defeat to the Bengals in which New England scored the fewest points of the Tom Brady Era, teammates have begun to express their frustration directly to Gronkowski. Sources say the Patriots locker room has become increasingly uncomfortable for the tight end.

There are people in the organization who question whether Gronkowski intends to ever play this season.

"Whatever is holding him back now isn't going to be healed in two weeks, because there's nothing wrong with the arm," the source said.
Considering how unusual it is for the Pats to air dirty laundry like this you have to wonder if Bellichik has given it the green light.

 
Many FF types blasting Gronk.

When you take a step back, the Pats are the ones that look awful. The Pats' doctor butchered Gronk's procedure causing mega-post surgical problems. The method used, instead of giving it extra time to heal, led to re-break upon the first serious impact to the area because Gronk really shouldn't have been on the field. Now again, the Pats medical staff has cleared Gronk to play, he's been cleared for weeks. Whoopee! Problem is that Gronk's own doctor who did his most recent surgery has not cleared Gronk. They then bring in the renowned Dr Andrews to give a 3rd opinion and Dr Andrews, says "NO" he's not ready (some stooge even questioned if Andrews has any credentials to opine on arms).

Yes, Gronk is running around at full speed at practice. Big deal.

Also, he hasn't been able to lift at full tilt for months so his strength is much less than what it was

 
Many FF types blasting Gronk.

When you take a step back, the Pats are the ones that look awful. The Pats' doctor butchered Gronk's procedure causing mega-post surgical problems. The method used, instead of giving it extra time to heal, led to re-break upon the first serious impact to the area because Gronk really shouldn't have been on the field. Now again, the Pats medical staff has cleared Gronk to play, he's been cleared for weeks. Whoopee! Problem is that Gronk's own doctor who did his most recent surgery has not cleared Gronk. They then bring in the renowned Dr Andrews to give a 3rd opinion and Dr Andrews, says "NO" he's not ready (some stooge even questioned if Andrews has any credentials to opine on arms).

Yes, Gronk is running around at full speed at practice. Big deal.

Also, he hasn't been able to lift at full tilt for months so his strength is much less than what it was
You have no basis for saying his surgery was "butchered." Infections are a risk with any surgery. Hell, they're a risk whenever you get a needle stuck into you.

And Gronk signed off on having the surgery as well, obviously.

And again, what freaking doctor is he seeing that says it's okay to play full contact practice, but not play in games? He's not just "running full speed," he's hitting, and being tackled, and apparently dominating in practice. If there are legitimate concerns about the integrity of the arm, it makes zero sense to have him practice.

And again re: the "source" saying people are questioning if he's intending on playing at all this year, I'll ask the same question: what the crap is he practicing for if he doesn't intend on playing this year?

I can't reconcile any of this, it really makes no sense to me.

ETA: I haven't really seen any "FF types" bashing Gronk either, FWIW.

 
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Interestingly, I wonder if the ability to now acquire him in leagues of any type would be easier from the knowledgeable than the non-knowledgeable?

People who pay attention have to see what's happening here, and thus may have dropped their valuations of Gronk; meanwhile, those who don't really follow the news on their players might still value Gronk at pre-2013 season levels.

ETA: So go swindle EBF or Ernol and don't even try to do anything with the newbies! :clyde:

 
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I can't reconcile any of this, it really makes no sense to me.
You are looking at this from an obviously biased perspective.

An infection is a risk, repeat infections are questionable, and while it isn't a "butcher" job... it is certainly and obviously a reason to never trust that surgeon nor anyone whom referred to that surgeon ever again.

As for practicing... unless you are there, and even then unless you are Gronk - how can you tell us how hard he is going at practice?

The guy's arm injury has been nothing but a disaster from a luck and treatment perspective, anyone doubting his own doctor + Andrews at this point has another agenda.

 
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ESPN's Ed Werder reports Rob Gronkowski's (arm surgeries) continued absence from game day but participation in practice has created "tension among teammates," who have begun questioning why Gronk isn't playing.

Advice: Werder writes that some teammates have wondered "if (Gronk) intends to play at all this season, according to multiple sources." Said one source, "There's curiosity and resentment, and he's creating it by going out and kicking ### during the week and then he doesn't show up on game day and help the team win." Inarguably, there are "trust issues" between the Patriots and Gronkowski's camp because the team cleared him to return too soon last season, and he re-broke his arm in the playoffs. Gronkowski has reportedly been "dominant" on the practice field, where some contact is allowed. Said a second source, "If he's not playing in games, he damn sure should not be doing what he is in practice."

More: ESPN.com

(Rotoworld.com)

If the Saints roll over the Patriots today handing them their second loss in as many weeks then look for things to really get lively in New England

 
Tried to tell you gronk owners who are holding onto hope for gronk to save your seasons
I love haters like you... I'm 4-1, drafted my man Julius Thomas in the 16th and have started him every game. The addition of Gronk makes my team that much better.

Sure, I wouldn't have drafted Gronk if I knew the situation would be playing out like this, but what isn't 20/20 looking back?

In terms of saving my season? Yea, I'm good, but thanks for the sound advice and good commentary you bring to the thread.

 
ESPN's Ed Werder reports Rob Gronkowski's (arm surgeries) continued absence from game day but participation in practice has created "tension among teammates," who have begun questioning why Gronk isn't playing.

Advice: Werder writes that some teammates have wondered "if (Gronk) intends to play at all this season, according to multiple sources." Said one source, "There's curiosity and resentment, and he's creating it by going out and kicking ### during the week and then he doesn't show up on game day and help the team win." Inarguably, there are "trust issues" between the Patriots and Gronkowski's camp because the team cleared him to return too soon last season, and he re-broke his arm in the playoffs. Gronkowski has reportedly been "dominant" on the practice field, where some contact is allowed. Said a second source, "If he's not playing in games, he damn sure should not be doing what he is in practice."

More: ESPN.com

(Rotoworld.com)

If the Saints roll over the Patriots today handing them their second loss in as many weeks then look for things to really get lively in New England
One of the 'some teammates' mentioned in this was reported to be Brady.

 
ESPN's Ed Werder reports Rob Gronkowski's (arm surgeries) continued absence from game day but participation in practice has created "tension among teammates," who have begun questioning why Gronk isn't playing.

Advice: Werder writes that some teammates have wondered "if (Gronk) intends to play at all this season, according to multiple sources." Said one source, "There's curiosity and resentment, and he's creating it by going out and kicking ### during the week and then he doesn't show up on game day and help the team win." Inarguably, there are "trust issues" between the Patriots and Gronkowski's camp because the team cleared him to return too soon last season, and he re-broke his arm in the playoffs. Gronkowski has reportedly been "dominant" on the practice field, where some contact is allowed. Said a second source, "If he's not playing in games, he damn sure should not be doing what he is in practice."

More: ESPN.com

(Rotoworld.com)

If the Saints roll over the Patriots today handing them their second loss in as many weeks then look for things to really get lively in New England
One of the 'some teammates' mentioned in this was reported to be Brady.
While I don't doubt it, I'd love to see some evidence of this.

 
'Some contact', little bit different than going up for a ball over the middle, getting your legs chopped by a db and coming down on the arm with your body and a defender or two.

 
Just speculation here, but I think best case scenario at this point is a Week 11 return after his bye.

Pats will likely be no worse than 6-3 at that point anyways, so I can't imagine it'll bother them all too much.

 
Well then. Hard to see how we get from here to Gronk playing anytime soon. It's been four+ months since the arm surgery IIRC -- so you'd have to think we're looking at additional months rather than additional weeks. Nothing would surprise me now, including a trip to IR.
exactly, what is another week or two going to do for his confidence playing with a plated forearm... Either way if he is practicing he had to be cleared in some fashion so either he is a little baby or the team is really shady as far as clearing people... bottom line is I believe Gronk will be on IR sooner then later so he is droppable in all redraft leagues... sorry fellas, got a good feeling that will happen

 
per Ed Werder of ESPN:

@Edwerderespn

Just filed to ESPN that Gronk won't play again and teammates can't reconcile what he does in practice with inability to go on game day.

@Edwerderespn

Players have begun to question Gronk directly and he's becoming more uncomfortable as tension builds.
Good, Gronk deserves to get called out. I love how his camp distrusts the Pats medical team because of all this issues and surgeries yet the fact the guy was out in Vegas boozing and body slamming his boys in a cast had nothing to do with his current situation. My guess is you are looking at either Brady or a few of the offensive lineman that are calling him out.
yep he's a frat boy punk living way over and above what he should with daddy and dr. andrews telling him he shouldn't play.. what a disaster.. I feel bad for the guys that drafted him in round 2 or 3... I grabbed him in round 9 and wished I wouldn't have. This situation is done for me... Hes goin on bench, thinkin of dropping the clown... This is total foolishness.

 
@MikeGiardi: I will reiterate what I reported prior to Cincy: I polled # of Pats players. None expressed anger at Gronk. Repeated this week. Same result

 
Many FF types blasting Gronk.

When you take a step back, the Pats are the ones that look awful. The Pats' doctor butchered Gronk's procedure causing mega-post surgical problems. The method used, instead of giving it extra time to heal, led to re-break upon the first serious impact to the area because Gronk really shouldn't have been on the field. Now again, the Pats medical staff has cleared Gronk to play, he's been cleared for weeks. Whoopee! Problem is that Gronk's own doctor who did his most recent surgery has not cleared Gronk. They then bring in the renowned Dr Andrews to give a 3rd opinion and Dr Andrews, says "NO" he's not ready (some stooge even questioned if Andrews has any credentials to opine on arms).

Yes, Gronk is running around at full speed at practice. Big deal.

Also, he hasn't been able to lift at full tilt for months so his strength is much less than what it was
Why isn't it a big deal? As far as I know (i've read nothing to the contrary), he's been lifting at full tilt since he was cleared to start practicing again.

If he's practicing, he's putting stress on that arm. If he's run blocking, pass blocking, having to use his arms to get off the line of scrimmage on routes, etc, he's stressing that arm. Sure, these practices may not be full tackle practices, but that arm is getting work every day. So, unless he's only running routes, not blocking, not going against a D, etc, he's using that arm in much the same way it would be used in games. Remember, he broke the arm initially on a PAT, not being flipped end over end and landing on the arm. Then he re-broke it on a pass where he went to the ground out of bounds, not when he was sandwiched between 2 defenders trying to destroy him. Those kind of simple plays (without a great deal of contact) led to the breaks. If he's okayed to practice when those types of plays could easily happen, why the holdup with regards to games?

That being said, the bigger issue seems to be how his teamates/organization are viewing him and this situation. If he comes back next week, week 11, or in the playoffs and helps them this year, all will likely be forgiven. If he doesn't play at all this year, I think there will be some big problems between him and the Pats.

 
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That being said, the bigger issue seems to be how his teamates/organization are viewing him and this situation.
I disagree with that. The bigger issue is how well his arm heals and how well he plays football after it does.

Teammates ##### about other teammates when things aren't going well for the team. If NE was undefeated and winning their games by 14+ every week there'd be nothing said by teammates. If they were 0-5 the #####ing would be twice as loud.

 
sounds like Andrews thinks the arm is in bad shape and needs to be totally re-done
Gonna need a link on this one.
I think hes just reading the tea leaves; but what we know is that the Team Drs think hes good to go while Andrews comes in, looks at the arm and has not cleared the player. One has to wonder what Andrews' is waiting for and its totally possible he could recommend a re-do of the plate.
Do we know that this happened? I've been looking, A LOT, at this situation, and I've read nothing that actually says Andrews has looked at Gronks are, or even just X-rays/MRIs. All I've read is that Gronk's agent wants Andrews to give clearance, and in the last few days, I've read that Andrews has not cleared him yet. But nothing says Andrews has said his arm isn't good to go. If he had already looked at Gronk's arm, don't you think we'd have seen at least one report that says "Dr. Andrews says Gronk's arm isn't ready?" We haven't seen that, just "Andrews hasn't cleared him."

I'm not saying that Andrews hasn't looked at Gronk, just that I can't find any evidence that he has. We all are assuming he looked at him and said "Your arm is jacked up," but why wouldn't we have SOMEONE reporting that, instead of "Gronk not cleared yet?"
I was just Googling trying to find this same thing. A couple of places have written that Andrews "has not cleared" Gronkowski to play. I've yet to read anything that actually says that they saw each other, or that Andrews reviewed an X-ray or something. That seems extremely odd.

Breaking News: PatsWillWin of the FBG messageboard has not cleared Gronkowski to play. Of course nobody would ever ask him that, but still - hasn't cleared him!
Fair enough, but wouldn't it be more odd if Gronk is going to sit out another week because the Pats wouldn't spring $300 for a plane ticket for him to go see Dr. Andrews? If it's just a matter of seeing him, what's taking so long? This isn't your average joe trying to call in for an appointment.
That would certainly be odd too, although maybe Gronk has to go see Andrews on his own since it's not a team doctor or something, I don't know.

I'm not saying Andrews hasn't looked at an x-ray or something, I just find the wording on all of the reporting oddly vague. If the Patriots doctors have examined him and cleared him, and Andrews has examined him and not cleared him, that seems like a pretty significant story. But all we have is just a paragraph in an ESPN blog saying he hasn't been cleared.

And here's the Globe:

ESPN reported Friday that Gronkowski hadn’t received clearance to play by his hand-picked medical team of Dr. James Andrews, who consulted on Gronkowski’s last arm surgery, and orthopedic surgeon Dr. Jesse Jupiter, who performed the surgery at Massachusetts General Hospital.

A league source told the Globe Friday that the decision to return to the field is mostly up to Gronkowski, and the team is understanding of that. The team has cleared Gronkowski to return, and Gronkowski’s agent, Drew Rosenhaus, uses Andrews for many of his second opinions. But in this case, Andrews is not an expert in forearm injuries and will likely not be the one to clear Gronkowski to play again, according to the league source.

Gronkowski’s camp has advised the tight end to be cautious and listen to the advice of Andrews, but Andrews won’t be the one who says go play, the source said.
So Andrews hasn't cleared Gronkowski, but will not likely be the one to do so because he's not an expert in this injury. But Gronkowski's agent uses him for second opinions, so....?
Sounds like he saw the doc to me,
Look at what YOU bolded. All that says is that Andrews consulted on the LAST surgery, from months ago. Not that he's seen him in the last week or so.
denial is not just a river in egypt you know

 
Tight end Rob Gronkowski's continued absence from the New England Patriots' lineup has escalated tension among teammates who have begun questioning him about why he's not playing and left some wondering if he intends to play at all this season, according to multiple sources."There's curiosity and resentment, and he's creating it by going out and kicking ### during the week and then he doesn't show up on game day and help the team win," one source said.

[snip]

Teammates, coaches and other members of the organization have watched Gronkowski practice fully for weeks -- this week he was described as dominant as New Orleans Saints tight end Jimmy Graham while taking 50 reps a day on the scout team -- and yet he has not been available on a game day.

Teammates and coaches have seen him run patterns, catch passes, use his arm to pass protect, run block and to separate from defenders at the line of scrimmage, and they doubt a doctor would allow so much contact if there remained serious concern about the health of his forearm.

They are having difficulty reconciling seeing Gronkowski perform like that and then not take the field with them for the games.

"If he's not playing in games, he damn sure should not be doing what he is in practice," said the same source who mentioned resentment.

With the Patriots entering Sunday's game against the high-scoring Saints off a defeat to the Bengals in which New England scored the fewest points of the Tom Brady Era, teammates have begun to express their frustration directly to Gronkowski. Sources say the Patriots locker room has become increasingly uncomfortable for the tight end.

There are people in the organization who question whether Gronkowski intends to ever play this season.

"Whatever is holding him back now isn't going to be healed in two weeks, because there's nothing wrong with the arm," the source said.
Considering how unusual it is for the Pats to air dirty laundry like this you have to wonder if Bellichik has given it the green light.
He issued the "Code Red"!

 
From CBS FF Player news updates.,.

There is hope Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski, who has been sidelined all season, will be cleared to play this week by Dr. James Andrews, reports USA Today. The report went on to state the issue is with Gronkowski's forearm, which has required multiple surgeries, and his back is fine.

Quarterback Tom Brady said during a radio interview Monday with WEEI that Gronkowski is itching to play.

"He wants to be cleared to play," Brady said. "Believe me, he wants to go out there and be able to play. When we have games out there like yesterday (vs. Saints), where you see the excitement of the game, the team, you want to be out there with all your friends. It's killing him to not be out there with us. We all know that. Rob is a great teammate. Rob is all about the team. He always has been. He's got to keep rehabbing, doing what he's asked to do, and when he's ready to play, he's ready to play."

 
What on earth could change between, say, the 120th day after a surgery and the 127th day?
I wondered the same thing. It doesn't make sense that there would be X amount of additional healing that would take place all of a sudden after so much time has already elapsed. However, maybe it has to do with the evaluation itself.

My purely speculative guess is that there was some type of blood (or other) type test that was submitted/performed during Gronk's recent visit that requires time to process. Some types of tests you can get an immediate turnaround on and some take time to evaluate thoroughly and properly. Or maybe the test itself, while maybe able to be adminstered by Andrews, needed to be interpreted by some other expert.

For example, if they were testing for infection it can take days once the sample is taken to see if/what type of bacteria may grow, if any. Maybe they needed X number of days to elapse to be sure.

This would potentially explain a delay in the clearance but also optimism so soon after the visit since they're banking on everything coming back negative.

Just guessing so who knows.

 
What on earth could change between, say, the 120th day after a surgery and the 127th day?
I don't know what happened or what is going on behind the scenes, but a possible explanation would be if the docs conducted more tests, another MRI, xrays, etc. between day 120 and day 127 that showed his arm was 100%, Grade A good to go. That's the only thing I could think of, because as you said, a week this much later should have little change or impact on the healing process.

 
I don't know what happened or what is going on behind the scenes
This is sort of what I was getting at.

--The team docs cleared him ahead of Week 2 or Week 3.

--Gronk is understandably concerned about getting this right. Having five surgeries in the span of a few months and wondering if his arm would ever be right had to suck.

--Drew Rosenhaus is involved. As is celebrity surgeon Dr. James Andrews.

Which all adds up to who the hell knows what's really going on now. But it's probably not medical.

 

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