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TE Rob Gronkowski, TB (4 Viewers)
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G
General Tso
Guest
Of course this begs the question, if he had been healthy the last few years, what would have been? One maybe two Superbowls possibly. As good as Gronk has been, we were robbed of seeing his very best.
G
General Tso
Guest
I'm not so sure about that. The guy is like Frankenstein's monster after all the surgeries he's had. Physically he has to have lost a significant amount from all those injuries. What we are seeing now is his best after 2 lost years and a ton of injuries. My point is, just imagine what those last two years would have looked like without the injuries. Scarey.But then again, if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle.
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Not mine. :(
I'm about to be 3-6 in a twelve team standard/typical league with an opening of Calvin - Nelson - Gronk, and also Mike Wallace late.
This hobby can be so irritating at times.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
This is why people were short-sighted to move guys like Cameron and/or Thomas above Gronk in rankings.
First, they both also had injury histories. Now Cameron is dealing with at least his 3rd concussion (which is scarier than anything Gronk has suffered), and also has some kind of possibly chronic shoulder injury. Second, they both were pretty TD-dependent (especially Thomas) whereas Gronk had the targets/catches/yardage AND had the historic TD pace which he had proven over time wasn't flukey.
The last couple years owners have felt good about themselves for waiting on a TE because they picked up guys like Cook, Delanie, etc. who produced for a few weeks. But those guys inevitably slow down and the advantage fades.
Guys like Gronk and Graham are still and might always be in a tier of their own.
And me personally, I rank Gronk higher due to the age difference and just because I think he's better.
First, they both also had injury histories. Now Cameron is dealing with at least his 3rd concussion (which is scarier than anything Gronk has suffered), and also has some kind of possibly chronic shoulder injury. Second, they both were pretty TD-dependent (especially Thomas) whereas Gronk had the targets/catches/yardage AND had the historic TD pace which he had proven over time wasn't flukey.
The last couple years owners have felt good about themselves for waiting on a TE because they picked up guys like Cook, Delanie, etc. who produced for a few weeks. But those guys inevitably slow down and the advantage fades.
Guys like Gronk and Graham are still and might always be in a tier of their own.
And me personally, I rank Gronk higher due to the age difference and just because I think he's better.
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Adam Harstad
Moderator
Just updated my cross-positional dynasty rankings for the first time since August. I had Gronkowski at #4 in my last update. He's up to my #1 overall dynasty player today.
GRONKSMASH
GRONKSMASH
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I'd say you have to offer Graham straight up. I don't think you have the juice to go Thomas+ to get Gronk unless you've got draft picks and the other guy is interested.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Ned Ryerson
Footballguy
As an FYI I traded him away...results were not good yesterday but am hoping for the bestin the playoffs.
In a PPR I traded Gronk, Hopkins and Baldwin for AJ Green, Gordon, R, Jennings and J. reed
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Insoxicated
Gronk is just fun to watch. I don't care WHO you're a fan of. Dude is having a ball out there and destroying everything in his path while doing it. His after-catch effort is the stuff of legend, often dragging 2, 3, even 4 guys significant distances.
Obscene quickness for a guy his size
Ridiculous hands for a TE
Physical size that makes him nearly impossible to bring down/cover.
And the guy, despite goofy off-field antics, he seems to love the game and have true competitive fire.
And he just turned 25.
Obscene quickness for a guy his size
Ridiculous hands for a TE
Physical size that makes him nearly impossible to bring down/cover.
And the guy, despite goofy off-field antics, he seems to love the game and have true competitive fire.
And he just turned 25.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
the knees still worry me. He was a split second away from another acl tear this weekend. he was lucky he was just starting to lift that right leg instead of just starting to plant it when ward tried to cripple him once again.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Also did it to Vereen and Gray. Guy is a menace.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
If I were the Gronk owner? It would take Julius Thomas + LeSean McCoy. Seriously. I've got Gronk #1, McCoy #17, and Thomas #18 in my most recent dynasty rankings, but that's just generic PPR. In TE-premium, Gronk rises all the way up to #-4.
But I'm consistently way above market on Gronk. More realistically, going rate for him would probably be more like McCoy + Kelce or JT + Ingram, something like that.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
AJ and Gordon (who I am low on) is probably fair for Gronk, but you got robbed on Hopkins.
Ned Ryerson
Footballguy
Redraft. My RBs are a nightmare, and i think (hope) that Jennings is able to step in and be a top 12 guy the rest of the way.
The trade was predicated on mediocre performance from Jordan reed, which I did not get yesterday.
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Ward's a POS. He's not going low to make a tackle; he's targeting the knees.
He tried to defend his hit last year by saying Gronkowski is too big to tackle high, but that's BS. If he tries to TACKLE the guy, instead of just diving at him, you can make a tackle. If he drives into him, at waist/upper leg level, and WRAPS UP, he can tackle the guy. But he wants to use his body as a missile and try to cripple a guy.
I don't usually wish injury on these guys, but I was secretly hoping Brady would throw an INT to Ward, and one of the Patriots would take out his knee. Does that make me a bad person?
He tried to defend his hit last year by saying Gronkowski is too big to tackle high, but that's BS. If he tries to TACKLE the guy, instead of just diving at him, you can make a tackle. If he drives into him, at waist/upper leg level, and WRAPS UP, he can tackle the guy. But he wants to use his body as a missile and try to cripple a guy.
I don't usually wish injury on these guys, but I was secretly hoping Brady would throw an INT to Ward, and one of the Patriots would take out his knee. Does that make me a bad person?
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
I feel like the kind of hit Ward went for is gonna happen to Gronk sometimes unfortunately, considering how hard he is to bring down plus all of the rules against hitting up high. IMO we have to hope he doesn't get put in that exact kind of spot a lot.
I'm with most everyone else in here, love Gronk, love having him on my teams. The crazy one handed catch, and then they motion him out wide and get him the TD - I was giddy. Just so good and pretty much just a hilarious big kid to boot. Seems like when Ridley went down the Pats scrapped a lot of the run heavy game plan and are going to center the offense around Brady throwing, and Gronk is going to be the main target.
I'm with most everyone else in here, love Gronk, love having him on my teams. The crazy one handed catch, and then they motion him out wide and get him the TD - I was giddy. Just so good and pretty much just a hilarious big kid to boot. Seems like when Ridley went down the Pats scrapped a lot of the run heavy game plan and are going to center the offense around Brady throwing, and Gronk is going to be the main target.
cstu
Footballguy
Gronk is awesome but there's too much temptation by defenders to go low on him. Not much else 200 lb. guy can do against him.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
cstu said:
Run It Up
Footballguy
blake
Footballguy
So, Brady telegraphs where he's throwing and locks in on Gronk, yet he still waltzes in with a touchdown? Good grief...maybe he is unstoppable.
He deserved that TD after making that insane catch right before. I was praying Brady would reward the man and they did. That LB was helpless out there.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Happens all the time, I don't get it.
Are DC's that dumb that they think Brees and Brady won't notice who is covering them?
Another thing that is important/interesting, IMO.
During the Patriots last drive, they ran the ball exclusively with Gray, except for 1 pass to Gronkowski, that got him over 100 yards. There was no reason to pass there, they were already up 22 & the game was out of reach. It was 2nd down, not third, and when they had a subsequent 2nd down (and longer distance), they just ran it.
It seems like it's becoming a focus of Brady/the Pats to get Gronk to produce. They used a challenge to try to get him a TD, when 1st and goal from the 1, they could have just tried to slam it into the EZ. Then, they ran the very next play for Gronk in the EZ. Then later, when passing was absolutely not necessary, they ran 1 pass play, to Gronk, to get him over the 100 yard mark.
It reminds me of 2007, when Brady and Moss broke the TD pass and TD reception marks. The Patriots were throwing the ball late in a number of games when it wasn't needed, almost like they were trying to get those numbers for Brady/Moss. That was obviously a very good year for their FF owners.
During the Patriots last drive, they ran the ball exclusively with Gray, except for 1 pass to Gronkowski, that got him over 100 yards. There was no reason to pass there, they were already up 22 & the game was out of reach. It was 2nd down, not third, and when they had a subsequent 2nd down (and longer distance), they just ran it.
It seems like it's becoming a focus of Brady/the Pats to get Gronk to produce. They used a challenge to try to get him a TD, when 1st and goal from the 1, they could have just tried to slam it into the EZ. Then, they ran the very next play for Gronk in the EZ. Then later, when passing was absolutely not necessary, they ran 1 pass play, to Gronk, to get him over the 100 yard mark.
It reminds me of 2007, when Brady and Moss broke the TD pass and TD reception marks. The Patriots were throwing the ball late in a number of games when it wasn't needed, almost like they were trying to get those numbers for Brady/Moss. That was obviously a very good year for their FF owners.
But they weren't running it up (at least, not when Gronk broke 100 yards).
They ran it every other play that series, even when they had a 2nd down and 11 (the pass was on 2nd & 8), even when they had a 3rd and 6. They weren't running it up, they ran 1 pass play, specifically (it seemed) with the intent of getting Gronk over 100 yards. FF-speaking, that's a positive.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Counting the two-point conversion, New England ran 11 plays inside the red zone. 10 of them were passes (the 11th was a sack). 9 of those passes were targeted at someone other than Rob Gronkowski.
Red-zone targets:
Julian Edelman - 4
Shane Vereen - 3
Brandon LaFell - 2
Rob Gronkowski - 1
If New England's goal is to get Rob Gronkowski huge numbers this season, they're sure not going about it in a very intelligent manner.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Should I trade him for Kelce, Donnell, or J. Thomas? 12 Tm PPR re-draft. TIA.
ETA: Sorry, I meant "and," not "or."
ETA: Sorry, I meant "and," not "or."
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
Did anyone else catch the 5:00 hour of the Dan LeBatard radio show yesterday? They segued into a 5-minute segment on Gronk that almost caused me to drive off the road.
I'm paraphrasing here, but it went like this:
Dan: "I can't believe how much of a difference a healthy Gronk makes. Basically what happens is, at tight end, the Patriots uncage a live polar bear. And he just wanders through your secondary, and if you put two guys on him, it doesn't matter. Because it's a polar bear. And how the hell are you going to guard a polar bear that knows the plays? The polar bear is wandering around mauling people, and your only hope is to injure it."
Stu: "Well, everyone is going low on him. Ward did it 2 years ago, and he tried to do it again to him yesterday."
Dan: "I'm telling you, you're gonna be watching an NFL game this year, and here's what's going to happen. Gronkowski is going to score, and he's going to go the last 18 yards with an arrow in his back. He's just gonna keep running, and the secondary will be trying to bring him down with all sorts of weapons, there'll be a hatchet in his hip ..."
Stu: "It's going to be like the Frank the Tank scene from 'Old School', with a bunch of darts in his neck."
Dan: "Somebody's going to blow-dart him in his forehead, it's not going to matter. There was one play yesterday where he ran into a zone and there were three guys there. He drags the entire secondary with him, there were two guys who just fell down in his wake. So of course they throw it to Julian Edelman, he's wide open!"
Stu: "That team is so annoying. I mean, they're beating people with Jonas Grey at running back."
Dan: "It's not him, it's the polar bear! He scored a touchdown yesterday with a machete in his ear!"
*** ETA: Found the radio clip - scroll to the 15:30 mark ... http://ec.libsyn.com/p/c/3/b/c3bf047c0bd21349/Lebatard_11-3-14-_Part_3.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06c98236d0cf5fb7bf&c_id=7823886 ***
GRONKSMASH.
I'm paraphrasing here, but it went like this:
Dan: "I can't believe how much of a difference a healthy Gronk makes. Basically what happens is, at tight end, the Patriots uncage a live polar bear. And he just wanders through your secondary, and if you put two guys on him, it doesn't matter. Because it's a polar bear. And how the hell are you going to guard a polar bear that knows the plays? The polar bear is wandering around mauling people, and your only hope is to injure it."
Stu: "Well, everyone is going low on him. Ward did it 2 years ago, and he tried to do it again to him yesterday."
Dan: "I'm telling you, you're gonna be watching an NFL game this year, and here's what's going to happen. Gronkowski is going to score, and he's going to go the last 18 yards with an arrow in his back. He's just gonna keep running, and the secondary will be trying to bring him down with all sorts of weapons, there'll be a hatchet in his hip ..."
Stu: "It's going to be like the Frank the Tank scene from 'Old School', with a bunch of darts in his neck."
Dan: "Somebody's going to blow-dart him in his forehead, it's not going to matter. There was one play yesterday where he ran into a zone and there were three guys there. He drags the entire secondary with him, there were two guys who just fell down in his wake. So of course they throw it to Julian Edelman, he's wide open!"
Stu: "That team is so annoying. I mean, they're beating people with Jonas Grey at running back."
Dan: "It's not him, it's the polar bear! He scored a touchdown yesterday with a machete in his ear!"
*** ETA: Found the radio clip - scroll to the 15:30 mark ... http://ec.libsyn.com/p/c/3/b/c3bf047c0bd21349/Lebatard_11-3-14-_Part_3.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06c98236d0cf5fb7bf&c_id=7823886 ***
GRONKSMASH.
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That's very interesting, but it's not really what I was talking about.
I'm not suggesting that when NE is game-planning each week, that they start with: "How do we make Gronkowski the focal point of our offense?" I'm not even suggesting that Brady is lobbying BB or McDaniels for more Gronk plays.
Rather, what I'm suggesting is that when NE/Brady has a choice, they looked to be trying to get Gronk some stats. The challenge on his crazy catch (when it seemed obvious that he was short of the GL), the TD play, the 1 pass to get him over 100. They didn't need to focus on him for those plays, but the game was pretty much in-hand, and they looked, 3 different times, to get him a stat (catch, TD, yardage, etc) that wasn't necessary to winning the game. Gronk's "huge numbers" aren't the focus, but they seemed to be important after the the outcome was determined.
When Gronk had his record setting year, I remember something similar. His catch that gave him the TE yardage mark came with less than 2 minutes left in a game where they were up 4 scores. They ran the ball every other play that drive, but put up one pass attempt, which got him the yardage mark, then took him out of the game.
Maybe this is purely coincidence, but that's the way it seems to me.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Not that Gronk is particularly coverable, but NE did a fantasic job of exploiting the attention he was getting vs. DEN. He would constantly draw the attention of three DBs whenever they were in the RZ leaving everyone else wideee open. The one time they left Gronk on an island he scored with essentially zero effort.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
If we can assume that that is all true, what is the problem? This is the NFL, not college ball or peewee football. If a team can't stop you, then that there's fault. Sure, you can sometimes question the logic of having a player with an injury history in a game late when the outcome is not in doubt, but from a competitive standpoint, it is not a team's job to try and stop scoring; it is the other team's job to stop them. And throwing the ball to a beast like Gronk will always improve your chances of scoring.
Skoo
Footballguy
This is my first year ever having Gronk, and man is it paying dividends. I play in a keeper league that keeps 2 Veterans and 1 Rookie each year.
Came into the season with Brees, Graham, and Le'Veon. Drafted Gronk with my 1st pick, 9th out of 10.
Gonna be some tough decisions to make come next August...
I got my fiance to draft Gronk with the last pick in the 3rd in a 12-team PPR league. As she likes to say, GRONK EATS PEOPLE
Came into the season with Brees, Graham, and Le'Veon. Drafted Gronk with my 1st pick, 9th out of 10.
Gonna be some tough decisions to make come next August...
I got my fiance to draft Gronk with the last pick in the 3rd in a 12-team PPR league. As she likes to say, GRONK EATS PEOPLE
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Skoo
Footballguy
I would be really surprised to find out Belicheck cares in the slightest about getting Gronk a TD instead of someone else or getting to 100 yards - I mean unless maybe he has him on his fantasy team. I think he just wants to win and doesn't care how it gets done, there's a reason the Pats are always at the top of the standings....
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I didn't say it was a problem; in fact I pointed out the 2007 season when Brady and Moss blew up as what I thought was a similar situation.
I also don't think BB is involved, at all. I just think (much like when Roethlisberger threw the meaningless pass to Brown about a month ago to keep his 5 catches/50 yard streak alive) that Brady (and maybe McDaniels) gave Gronk those plays when "traditional" football logic would have called for another type of play (ie-running play).
See previous post, but I'm not suggesting that BB is directly involved, but why throw that pass to Gronk, but not throw one on 2nd and 11 or 3rd and 6 on the same drive?
Why pass the ball from the 1 when you are up by two scores and there is much less risk of a turnover with a QB sneak, or run play?
Again, I could be completely wrong, but that's what it seems like to me.
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hardcoredx
Footballguy
I love how these so called experts have him rated over Graham on this forum, he won't be able to stay healthy in the long term. I have no doubt he will have diminshed value over the coming years as more inuries pile up. I think he is peaking as we speak- how many surgeries has the guy had? oh yea 4-5 and counting?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Considering Gronk outscores Graham by about 3pts per game, and is more than two years younger you don't have to believe he'll play every game until forever to be the better player.
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