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***** OFFICIAL Rob Gronkowski - taking his talents to TB *****

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There is no way Gronkowski is coming back this season.

He is traditionally a slow healer and there have been issues between Gronk Inc. (his family is heavily involved in his career and have had issues when they felt the Pat's rushed him back in the past) and the Patriots. There is no way Gronkowski and his family allow him to return in 2016, even if it's in the Superbowl.

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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

Bennett has a variety of injuries and is toughing it out. His main issue is that they have been using him more as a blocker than a receiver.

NE will just adjust the offense, migrating away from 2 TE to more multiple WR sets and more swing passes to the RBs. Edelman should see a big boost in targets. He saw 28 total targets over the last two games.

I always thought it was odd that the Patriots talked up wanting to sign Martellus Bennett long-term so much, so maybe they know the writing is on the wall for Gronk.  Still your game plan assessment is probably correct.  They must really love the way Bennett blocks.

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25 minutes ago, zeeshan2 said:

Re Gronk: JJ Watt underwent a similar back surgery on July 21, and played in Week 1, a little over 7 weeks later

Then Watt missed the rest of the season after a cup of coffee and a scone.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1631198/jj-watt

Edited by BoltNlava
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Vic Carucci (whose source is rumored to be Gronk's father) is stating that the back injury and lung injury occurred on the monster hit in the Seattle game. He claims his source is telling him Gronk should be back in 8 weeks. Just relaying what I heard, not saying I have any knowledge or opinion on how realistic it is for him to be back at some point in the playoffs.

As far as Bennett goes, I do know the Pats like what he brings to the table as both blocker and receiver when healthy. Being banged up has likely led to him staying in to block more (that and Brady getting smacked around some).

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Expect a lot more sets with Lewis and White in the backfield and 2 of Edelman/Mitchell/Hogan at WR (maybe even all 3).

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Wish I'd taken my own advice and added Malcolm Mitchell in both leagues. :doh: 

As for Gronk, that was such a rapid fall from grace....dude was hands down the #1 top tier of his own TE in FFB. Within one season *poof!* - maybe he'll come back next year ok. Back injuries, like foot injuries, are touchy. 

I'm sure at least 5 people will now call me a hater and say that I came in here to spew hatred about a player I hate for saying that. :loco:  I am actually a Gronk fan - not when my team is facing him (or my fantasy teams more specifically) because IMO he's been ridiculously productive. But in general I love seeing the big man play. Same reason I loved seeing Gates & Tony Gonzalez play. 

I am starting to wonder if we're going to be seeing a return to mediocrity at the TE position. There are only so many of the "new breed" of TE out there...Reed with his concussions & other ailments (shoulder, most recently), Gates is in rapid decline, as some have mentioned, this might be the end for Gronk....who's left? And moreover, who's coming up to replace them?  

Might make a good topic...

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56 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

 

As far as Bennett goes, I do know the Pats like what he brings to the table as both blocker and receiver when healthy. Being banged up has likely led to him staying in to block more (that and Brady getting smacked around some).

Is there any data on routes run for NE? It 2 good looking matches for Bennett he has been targeted twice vs 49ers and 5 times vs Jets while Gronk was out. I watched part of this games and he was blocking most the time because of the bolded above

All the other receiving weapons are getting more and more targets

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21 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Wish I'd taken my own advice and added Malcolm Mitchell in both leagues. :doh: 

As for Gronk, that was such a rapid fall from grace....dude was hands down the #1 top tier of his own TE in FFB. Within one season *poof!* - maybe he'll come back next year ok. Back injuries, like foot injuries, are touchy. 

I'm sure at least 5 people will now call me a hater and say that I came in here to spew hatred about a player I hate for saying that. :loco:  I am actually a Gronk fan - not when my team is facing him (or my fantasy teams more specifically) because IMO he's been ridiculously productive. But in general I love seeing the big man play. Same reason I loved seeing Gates & Tony Gonzalez play. 

I am starting to wonder if we're going to be seeing a return to mediocrity at the TE position. There are only so many of the "new breed" of TE out there...Reed with his concussions & other ailments (shoulder, most recently), Gates is in rapid decline, as some have mentioned, this might be the end for Gronk....who's left? And moreover, who's coming up to replace them?  

Might make a good topic...

I'm not sure Mitchell is the add here.  I think the Pats will miss the blocking and the game down the seams that Gronk gives and they will likely go back to that ultra quick slant, short screen, etc type of game so I'm guessing Edelman and white and Lewis.

Long-term, I'd say it is reasonable to hang the cleats up shortly after Brady does (2 years?). I think his history of injuries will seem much more weighted once the thrill of winning and dominating goes away.  He will be 30 or so then too and he has saved his money as had been documented.  Seems about right to me.  

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Sarlakticacid said:

Is there any data on routes run for NE? It 2 good looking matches for Bennett he has been targeted twice vs 49ers and 5 times vs Jets while Gronk was out. I watched part of this games and he was blocking most the time because of the bolded above

All the other receiving weapons are getting more and more targets

Logically I'd think Bennett would be blowing up as the primary beneficiary, but for a rare change it appears the injury reports out of the Pats are correct and Bennett's been hurt for weeks leading to an increased role from Mitchell.  

IMO if Bennett is still hampered with injuries, the Deion Lewis / White owners might be getting at least flex-worthy plays out of both. I don't think they'll suddenly turn into a run heavy offense and lean on Blount - I think BB prefers to limit his touches a bit and keep him healthy. 

At this point it's anyone's guess but largely hinges on the health of Bennett. 

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Just now, Shutout said:

I'm not sure Mitchell is the add here.  I think the Pats will miss the blocking and the game down the seams that Gronk gives and they will likely go back to that ultra quick slant, short screen, etc type of game so I'm guessing Edelman and white and Lewis.

Certainly possible - I just cross-posted and said something similar...especially if Bennett isn't 100%. 

 

Just now, Shutout said:

Long-term, I'd say it is reasonable to hang the cleats up shortly after Brady does (2 years?). I think his history of injuries will seem much more weighted once the thrill of winning and dominating goes away.  He will be 30 or so then too and he has saved his money as had been documented.  Seems about right to me.  

Yeah - this makes sense. Depends on how he comes back from the back injury - such a brutal injury to come back from. Look what happened to JJ Watt. Similar size/weight. (6'6" 265 vs 6'5" 289). Both very athletic - it's just one of those injuries that no matter how big or strong you are, the spine can defeat you while reaching wrong to put on your seatbelt or pick up your kids. It's a brutal thing to experience and from what I've heard it's incredibly difficult for pro athletes in contact sports. 

But that said, Gronk has always been a very hard worker, and if anyone can do it, it'll probably be him. Tough break that it's in late November, Just 7 months until June, so I'm skeptical he'll be out there for training camp. 

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11 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Tough break that it's in late November, Just 7 months until June, so I'm skeptical he'll be out there for training camp. 

Paging @Dr. Brew - ETA for recovery for this type of injury?  Like, football activities type of recovery. TIA! :)  

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40 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Tough break that it's in late November, Just 7 months until June, so I'm skeptical he'll be out there for training camp. 

Gronk has had this same injury twice and didn't need 7 months. The recovery cycle seems to be decreasing, not increasing.  

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

Gronk has had this same injury twice and didn't need 7 months. The recovery cycle seems to be decreasing, not increasing.  

As I understand all back injuries are slightly different - same disc would be much, much worse for prognosis. Different disc could be better or worse depending on severity. I dunno, I'm not a surgeon, so unqualified to make a prognosis of recovery. 

I just know 7 months doesn't seem like a very long time, but I'll take your word on it.  

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2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Paging @Dr. Brew - ETA for recovery for this type of injury?  Like, football activities type of recovery. TIA! :)  

the issue with this kind of back injury and recovery is what is he exactly having done? 
if it's a discectomy, where they remove a portion of the herniated disc, then that is the easiest to come back from and most optimistic short term but long term he will likely need another surgery... I'd give him 2 years. 
if it's a fusion he's done for months. like 6 to 12 months to career ending. this is likely not the case as it could be potentially career ending. this is what he will get in about 2-3 years after he gets the discectomy imo. the reason I say that is because the way he plays, works out, etc there's no way a discectomy lasts for the rest of his career. the guys a beast.

Playing football in 8 weeks is crazy. the body has barely recovered much less ready for massive impacts that gronk would be taking. Maybe he's running routes. the long term risk is too great imo. but playoffs are playoffs. there would be a slim chance he would play in the superbowl? I doubt it. 

long term, he will probably be ok next season but I'd honestly expect an Antonio Gates-like descent into fantasy mediocrity over the next 2-3 seasons. 
I wouldn't draft him next season, just because of his history and now he's almost predisposed to a fusion. it's a ticking time bomb. 

Brian Urlacher went through a similar issue and played but was not nearly the same player for the last couple of years. with gronk I'd expect and out the same. sucks but that's kind of what happens... the body has a breaking point. look at jj watt... guy is a beast and having eerily similar issues to gronk.

 

activities... 

25 pound lifting restriction for about 6 months, I'd say 8 but this is the nfl so I'm sure there will be a faster recovery encouraged. 

I would think by training camp he's ready to go, but you have totake into account all that time lost. at the end of the day it is gronk so I'd expect him to still be targeted in the passing game next season and be a top end te1. 

I have a suspicion he plays 1 more year after Brady retires and hangs it up 

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Incredibly thorough and informative -  thank you @Dr. Brew

this is likely why some out there are questioning whether this is it for Gronk.

i expect him to make a comeback like Watt. 

Hopefully he has better results with the comeback. The size & athleticism is just such a bad combo for a disc injury. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Brew said:

the issue with this kind of back injury and recovery is what is he exactly having done? 
if it's a discectomy, where they remove a portion of the herniated disc, then that is the easiest to come back from and most optimistic short term but long term he will likely need another surgery... I'd give him 2 years. 
if it's a fusion he's done for months. like 6 to 12 months to career ending. this is likely not the case as it could be potentially career ending. this is what he will get in about 2-3 years after he gets the discectomy imo. the reason I say that is because the way he plays, works out, etc there's no way a discectomy lasts for the rest of his career. the guys a beast.

Playing football in 8 weeks is crazy. the body has barely recovered much less ready for massive impacts that gronk would be taking. Maybe he's running routes. the long term risk is too great imo. but playoffs are playoffs. there would be a slim chance he would play in the superbowl? I doubt it. 

long term, he will probably be ok next season but I'd honestly expect an Antonio Gates-like descent into fantasy mediocrity over the next 2-3 seasons. 
I wouldn't draft him next season, just because of his history and now he's almost predisposed to a fusion. it's a ticking time bomb. 

Brian Urlacher went through a similar issue and played but was not nearly the same player for the last couple of years. with gronk I'd expect and out the same. sucks but that's kind of what happens... the body has a breaking point. look at jj watt... guy is a beast and having eerily similar issues to gronk.

 

activities... 

25 pound lifting restriction for about 6 months, I'd say 8 but this is the nfl so I'm sure there will be a faster recovery encouraged. 

I would think by training camp he's ready to go, but you have totake into account all that time lost. at the end of the day it is gronk so I'd expect him to still be targeted in the passing game next season and be a top end te1. 

I have a suspicion he plays 1 more year after Brady retires and hangs it up 

Gronk has had this procedure twice already and was not a fraction of himself the following season. Mayve having it a third time is an issue of itself, but the other times he was still able to be productive.

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6 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Gronk has had this procedure twice already and was not a fraction of himself the following season. Mayve having it a third time is an issue of itself, but the other times he was still able to be productive.

How old was he the 1st two times? 

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11 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

How old was he the 1st two times? 

Younger.

The problem with these injuries in your late 20s isn't just a longer recovery, it's also a harder hit on your physical abilities because you are not conditioning while you are recovering, and it's much harder (if not impossible) to get back to where you were.

Not to mention surgery on the same area multiple times is bad news.

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4 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Younger.

The problem with these injuries in your late 20s isn't just a longer recovery, it's also a harder hit on your physical abilities because you are not conditioning while you are recovering, and it's much harder (if not impossible) to get back to where you were.

Not to mention surgery on the same area multiple times is bad news.

I'll tell ya what, it's hard to feel sorry for a guy with millions in the bank and a star studded career,  it I don't envy this dude at 70.  

NFL players take such a beating. And have for most of their lives.

Old age is not kind to any of us, but triple so for pro football players. :( 

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25 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Gronk has had this procedure twice already and was not a fraction of himself the following season. Mayve having it a third time is an issue of itself, but the other times he was still able to be productive.

is this the same segment? 

yes: very bad news... can only cut enough away before you need a fusion

no: bad news because now we are talking about multi level disc issues... 

 

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The Patriots issued a statement, in which they state that they do not expect Gronk back at all this season but will wait and see how the surgery goes before they reach any conclusions.

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I'll tell ya what, it's hard to feel sorry for a guy with millions in the bank and a star studded career,  it I don't envy this dude at 70.  

NFL players take such a beating. And have for most of their lives.

Old age is not kind to any of us, but triple so for pro football players. :( 

I read somewhere the average life expectancy for an NFL OL is 64 years old...

no thanks. I'd rather take my modest pay and live to 87. even if it means I'll be laughing at the wall wearing shorts with one testicle hanging out of them

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Brew said:

I read somewhere the average life expectancy for an NFL OL is 64 years old...

no thanks. I'd rather take my modest pay and live to 87. even if it means I'll be laughing at the wall wearing shorts with one testicle hanging out of them

That 1-nut hanger is a cultivated look. Start practicing now. ;) 

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10 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

The Patriots issued a statement, in which they state that they do not expect Gronk back at all this season but will wait and see how the surgery goes before they reach any conclusions.

From a team coy about injuries that's a lot of info. 

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11 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Younger.

The problem with these injuries in your late 20s isn't just a longer recovery, it's also a harder hit on your physical abilities because you are not conditioning while you are recovering, and it's much harder (if not impossible) to get back to where you were.

Not to mention surgery on the same area multiple times is bad news.

For whatever reason this reminds me of Peyton Manning and his neck.  At the time all that was going on, a person who I considered an expert on these things told me clearly "it's over.  He will never be able to get back". Well, that was kinda sorta correct because Manning was out a long time but then he came back and had that awesome year.  

So I was asking my "expert" wtf..?  And they replied "think of it like adrenaline.  He got a long rest.  He feels great and energized.  He can do anything short term...and he's doing it a bit differently..but watch, he won't hold up".  And true enough, all that stuff she told me about how this thing would lead to that thing and it would lead to weakness and compensating and then the wheels would fall off...well, that's kind of how it looked.  

So. Wonder if we will see a long absence, a lot of caution, a return and things looking good, but then he just won't be able to hold up.  I kind of wonder if this is the last of a 2-3 year, play in about 60 percent of the games kind of career for what has been simply dominance at the position.  

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2 minutes ago, Shutout said:

 So. Wonder if we will see a long absence, a lot of caution, a return and things looking good, but then he just won't be able to hold up.  I kind of wonder if this is the last of a 2-3 year, play in about 60 percent of the games kind of career for what has been simply dominance at the position.  

Seems likely. 

Very similar to Gates last couple seasons. 

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5 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Wish I'd taken my own advice and added Malcolm Mitchell in both leagues. :doh: 

Shouldn't beat yourself up over it. Brady hasn't regularly tossed to an X or Z receiver in 10 years. Not gonna start again now.

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2 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Shouldn't beat yourself up over it. Brady hasn't regularly tossed to an X or Z receiver in 10 years. Not gonna start again now.

Yeah, and I've got Evans/MThomas/Moncrief and Snead as a 4th/Flex, but I would have liked to have kept him off someone else'a roster. 

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2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

He's only 27.  Man. 3 discs is a lot. 

Indeed. There are only so many discs to go around. Was it the same disc or 3 different discs?

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3 minutes ago, Sarlakticacid said:

Indeed. There are only so many discs to go around. Was it the same disc or 3 different discs?

I'm not worried, he had a 6 disc changer installed last time.  Plus a 100 amp subwoofer.  

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6 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Shouldn't beat yourself up over it. Brady hasn't regularly tossed to an X or Z receiver in 10 years. Not gonna start again now.

Well who have they had to step up in that role in the last 10 years? Rams just got torched by the same position last week. Will be interesting 

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16 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

From a team coy about injuries that's a lot of info. 

I think they've been more transparent like this a couple times before with him, my guess is he/his agent/his people are trying to look out for his health and try to remove any pressure on him to rush back. He has leverage that not many other players have obviously.

Hope this isn't the beginning of the end but that seems very possible considering the back injuries go back to college. He's become one of my favorites after having him in fantasy a few times.  

Edited by Ted Mullins
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On Thursday, December 01, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Shutout said:

For whatever reason this reminds me of Peyton Manning and his neck.  At the time all that was going on, a person who I considered an expert on these things told me clearly "it's over.  He will never be able to get back". Well, that was kinda sorta correct because Manning was out a long time but then he came back and had that awesome year.  

So I was asking my "expert" wtf..?  And they replied "think of it like adrenaline.  He got a long rest.  He feels great and energized.  He can do anything short term...and he's doing it a bit differently..but watch, he won't hold up".  And true enough, all that stuff she told me about how this thing would lead to that thing and it would lead to weakness and compensating and then the wheels would fall off...well, that's kind of how it looked.  

So. Wonder if we will see a long absence, a lot of caution, a return and things looking good, but then he just won't be able to hold up.  I kind of wonder if this is the last of a 2-3 year, play in about 60 percent of the games kind of career for what has been simply dominance at the position.  

this is nothing like manning. it is the precursor to manning. 

when Manning had his multilevel fusion I told people hewasn't going to play the next year. I was kind of laughed at. well, I had the last laugh as he had a 4th level fusion and sat out an extra year. the fact that he came back at all is short of a miracle to be honest; a lot of people don't understand how bad he was and how much work it was to get enough of his talent back to play again.

gronk isn't having a fusion, yet, but given the position he plays and the intensity he plays at, he will likely break down sooner than if he did not have this issue. he will need a fusion some day and I'm a bit surprised he didn't need it this time given how many back surgeries he's had. 

by not having a fusion chances of him having weakness and endurance issues like Manning had are low. Manning had a multilevel fusion which is extremely risky, as your expert realized. this is still serious but complications are relatively minimal.

I don't mean to jump down your throat on this but to compare this to manning is a vast over reach. i would bet that we will never see another manning situation, which goes to show how ridiculous it really was

Edited by Dr. Brew

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Gronk could have been the best TE ever, but too many injuries will prevent him from making that run.  I wouldn't be surprised if he never plays again. 

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Your friend predicted a 37 year old QB wouldn't hold up, lol.  Really went out on a limb there. 

Gronk nasty needs to keep playing.  Fun to watch

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On 12/1/2016 at 6:34 PM, Shutout said:

I'm not sure Mitchell is the add here.  I think the Pats will miss the blocking and the game down the seams that Gronk gives and they will likely go back to that ultra quick slant, short screen, etc type of game so I'm guessing Edelman and white and Lewis.

Long-term, I'd say it is reasonable to hang the cleats up shortly after Brady does (2 years?). I think his history of injuries will seem much more weighted once the thrill of winning and dominating goes away.  He will be 30 or so then too and he has saved his money as had been documented.  Seems about right to me.  

 

 

Brady will play until at least 45.

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1 hour ago, Ghost Rider said:

Gronk could have been the best TE ever, but too many injuries will prevent him from making that run.  I wouldn't be surprised if he never plays again. 

I love how people say this when players get injured when they have absolutely no clue.

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26 minutes ago, Tool said:

I love how people say this when players get injured when they have absolutely no clue.

I dunno man; Gronk is a massive human being with freakish skills - so why he may play again, it's fair to wonder if his best years are behind him.  3 disks is a lot to injure.  

also autocorrect wants me to type #####. Thanks, autocorrect. 

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38 minutes ago, Tool said:

I love how people say this when players get injured when they have absolutely no clue.

a) I didn't say he won't play again; I said I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't.

b) how many NFL players have ever played again after THREE back surgeries? (legit question; I honestly do not know)

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41 minutes ago, Tool said:

I love how people say this when players get injured when they have absolutely no clue.

I remember the over-reactions when Gore had his hip injury years ago. 

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50 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I remember the over-reactions when Gore had his hip injury years ago. 

Not to bag on you, but Frank Gore has had one of the most incredible runs any player based on all the injuries he's had. He tore both of his ACLs before he ever made it to the NFL. After his 3rd or 4th season in the league he had to have surgery on both of his ankles and. It's of his shoulders. They obviously weren't complete reconstructions, but 4 joints. Then, he had surgery on the hip at 31-32. The dude is amazing and probably shouldn't be still playing, so he's probably not the best "standard case" example.

i have no clue what the future holds for Gronk. He's still fairly young and obviously a physical freak. He did, however, come into the league with a big red flag of missing an entire CFB season due to a bad back requiring major surgery. If a player breaks an arm/leg or even tears a ligament, science seems to be able to get them playing again. When it come to neck, back, head or other types of traumatic injuries that have potential long term effects, you see him players treating them differently. It would not shock me if a guy missing a second year because of a back injury, or one needing a fused bone (no clue if this is) calling it quits.

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