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North Korea thread: UPDATE: President Trump steps into North Korea

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20 minutes ago, Chaos Commish said:

Or Drudge?

I haven't seen anyone I consider reliable report it 

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28 minutes ago, Higgs said:

And W.

And Clinton for his deal with North Korea.  And GHWB for withdrawing tactical nukes from South Korea.  And Reagan for negotiating on non-proliferation but leaving an "out" for North Korea at the time.

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I haven't been this concerned about nuclear war since the good ol' days of "The Morning After" when I was like 8 years old.

My father told me there was nothing to worry about at the time. He doesn't share that same sentiment anymore.

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6 minutes ago, bananafish said:

I haven't been this concerned about nuclear war since the good ol' days of "The Morning After" when I was like 8 years old.

My father told me there was nothing to worry about at the time. He doesn't share that same sentiment anymore.

I mean, you have a right to be nervous, we all should be, but I highly doubt it gets that far. Trump isn't in charge here, Mattis is and that guy is an ace. NK isn't going to sign their death warrant for no good reason and China isn't going to go to the mattresses for those losers. It'll work itself out. 

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2 minutes ago, Capella said:

I mean, you have a right to be nervous, we all should be, but I highly doubt it gets that far. Trump isn't in charge here, Mattis is and that guy is an ace. NK isn't going to sign their death warrant for no good reason and China isn't going to go to the mattresses for those losers. It'll work itself out. 

If NK has a single working nuclear warhead-tipped weapon it will use it if it's losing some kind of military action.  The question is if it will strike at South Korea, Japan, a U.S. strike force, or Pyongyang. Or, I guess, somewhere random.

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4 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

If NK has a single working nuclear warhead-tipped weapon it will use it if it's losing some kind of military action.  The question is if it will strike at South Korea, Japan, a U.S. strike force, or Pyongyang. Or, I guess, somewhere random.

Yea, but I don't think we get to that action. They are putting on a show for something. 

Edit: also if we do get into action we'll hit their arsenal first, I'm sure. 

Edited by Capella

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2 minutes ago, Capella said:

Yea, but I don't think we get to that action. They are putting on a show for something. 

Edit: also if we do get into action we'll hit their arsenal first, I'm sure. 

How exactly do you take out someones nuclear warhead without blowing it up?

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5 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

How exactly do you take out someones nuclear warhead without blowing it up?

Ok we'll blow it up there. I meant it's not getting to us or Japan. 

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30 minutes ago, Capella said:

Ok we'll blow it up there. I meant it's not getting to us or Japan. 

Best estimates are between 10-20 nukes 10-40 kilotons each, that's from half to double Hiroshima. There's almost no way for our intel to have them all located, they're moved regularly.  So it would be nearly impossible to defend Seoul. Fat kid also has  thousands of artillery pieces that reportedly can flatten Seoul in an hour, and they stay in position. We can take them out, but not fast enough to protect 100s of thousands in Seoul. I'm no expert but this exercise with a sociopath makes no sense to me. When asked this weekend why cancel Australia and send the strike group at DPRK, McMaster said because it's prudent to do it, right? Well, wtf, why? :shrug: smh

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6 minutes ago, Chaos Commish said:

Best estimates are between 10-20 nukes 10-40 kilotons each, that's from half to double Hiroshima. There's almost no way for our intel to have them all located, they're moved regularly.  So it would be nearly impossible to defend Seoul. Fat kid also has  thousands of artillery pieces that reportedly can flatten Seoul in an hour, and they stay in position. We can take them out, but not fast enough to protect 100s of thousands in Seoul. I'm no expert but this exercise with a sociopath makes no sense to me. When asked this weekend why cancel Australia and send the strike group at DPRK, McMaster said because it's prudent to do it, right? Well, wtf, why? :shrug: smh

Right. This ain't Syria. There's regular artillery within range of Seoul. Start raining shells and it's chaos in a modern global city.

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South Korea has elections in a month.

Quote

 

Former human rights lawyer Moon Jae-in of the Democratic Party, who is leading in most polls in a suddenly tight race, is a disciple of the so-called “sunshine” policy of engagement pursued by previous liberal presidents between 1998 and 2008, which conservative critics argue failed to stop the North’s nuclear and missile programs. Software tycoon Ahn Cheol-soo of the People’s Party, who also favors reaching out to the North, is running a close second and is threatening to overtake Moon, while two conservative candidates trail far behind.

For the past ten years, Park’s conservative party had been in lock-step with Washington, favoring a tough approach to the North and showing skepticism of diplomatic outreach or other initiatives designed to persuade Pyongyang to come in from the cold and abandon its nuclear weapons.

Moon, in contrast, has long advocated a softer line on North Korea, backing investment, aid, and diplomacy along with sanctions to try to coax Pyongyang to back off of its belligerent stance. Moon has also expressed caution on the introduction of the U.S.-made THAAD radar system meant to defend South Korea against missile attacks, saying the deployment should be postponed until after the election to allow the next president to assess the risks and benefits. China has expressed outrage over the radar system and retaliated against the South with commercial boycotts.

 

Trump is a moron and I don't want to hear more about Mattis being such a brilliant guy. 

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As I may have mentioned once or twice in the past, this is why you don't make a recently serving general Secretary of Defense. But I'm sure it'll all be fine. 

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

Mattis is a brilliant guy.  But not at politics and diplomacy. He's a hammer.  It's funny how many nails he sees.

A brilliant hammer is a great thing in awful circumstances, but in a world desperately in need of avoiding them it's an oxymoron.

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China's envoy says Beijing will 'actively' work for talks between U.S., N.K.

SEOUL, April 11 (Yonhap) -- China's top nuclear envoy said Tuesday that he will work hard to bring the United States and North Korea to the negotiating table for direct talks aimed at resolving the North's nuclear stalemate.

   Wu Dawei made the remarks in a meeting with Rep. Sim Sang-jung of the minor progressive Justice Party. During the 40-minute-long meeting, the two discussed North Korea's nuclear program and other issues of mutual concerns, according to Sim, who shared what was discussed in a press briefing.  "Since the U.S. is rejecting the idea of holding multilateral negotiations, (we) will actively work to arrange talks between the U.S. and North Korea," Sim quoted Wu as saying during the meeting.

   This was in response to Sim's request that China get more involved in bringing the North to the multilateral negotiating table aimed at dissuading its pursuit of nuclear weapons.
 "(China) has always endeavored to resolve (the North's issue) through talks on the basis of the denuclearization principle. ... But there are states that have denied dialogue. One is North Korea, and the other is the United States," he added.

   Wu expressed concerns that rising tensions and the possibility of a war on the Korean Peninsula is a "dangerous matter to everyone," comparing the situation with a torn fishing net that eventually kills the fish and leaves it to pollute the water.

   Wu also voiced frustration with the recalcitrant North, saying that the Kim Jong-un regime does not listen to China trying to dissuade it from developing nuclear weapons, calling it an intervention in its domestic affairs.

   "We are also making efforts, but Kim Jong-un will not listen to us," he was quoted as saying.

   He still promised that China will continue to faithfully enforce relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions against the North to help its move toward denuclearization.

   Meanwhile, Wu repeated China's strong opposition to Seoul and Washington's decision to deploy an advanced missile defense system called THAAD in South Korea.
 "The China-South Korea ties are facing challenges now, but the responsibility does not rest with China," he said. "The THAAD issue is having an impact on the relations."

   Wu urged South Korea to recognize China's concerns and take necessary measures in a way that the friction caused by the THAAD deployment comes to be resolved.

   Last year, South Korea decided to host THAAD on its soil despite China's fierce opposition for fear that its strong radar could hurt its strategic security interests.

   Relations between the two have deteriorated ever since as China launched retaliatory measures targeting South Korean companies and goods, including Lotte Group, which provided the land necessary to house the THAAD battery.

   Wu admitted that Chinese people are complaining a lot about Lotte Group providing the site, but he denied the Chinese government's involvement in any retaliatory steps, saying that it is purely people's voluntary actions.

 

http://m.yna.co.kr/mob2/en/contents_en.jsp?cid=AEN20170411010700315&site=0200000000&mobile

 

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:lol:  sounds like Trump threatened China with military action against North Korea, which would send millions of refugees into China - which got China up off its ### to do something here...

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I haven't been this concerned about nuclear war since the good ol' days of "The Morning After" when I was like 8 years old.


That was "The Day After". Unless you had a pregnancy scare at 8 years old?

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1 hour ago, Sinn Fein said:

:lol:  sounds like Trump threatened China with military action against North Korea, which would send millions of refugees into China - which got China up off its ### to do something here...

Trump kicking ### worldwide. Someone has to kill the fat little toad. Maybe Trump can add that feather to his cap.

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15 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

How exactly do you take out someones nuclear warhead without blowing it up?

Nuke warheads don't actually go boom unless they're armed. I believe they can be destroyed without setting off a nuclear reaction... 

But what if Iran had 55 pounds of 90-percent enriched uranium already assembled into a bomb, and a U.S. or Israeli missile strike hits that material dead-on? Even then, the strike isn’t likely to cause more than a minor nuclear detonation. The chain reaction in a nuclear bomb is carefully choreographed, with the most common strategy being to surround the fissile material with conventional explosives and then detonate the weapon with a finely tuned electrical charge. That has the effect of compressing the uranium simultaneously from all sides and preventing any uranium from escaping its container too quickly. All of the conventional explosives surrounding the fissile material must go off within microseconds of each other in order to contain the uranium. In the worse-case scenario, a missile strike on a facility containing nuclear weapons would almost certainly mess with the synchronization of the charges and the compression would be compromised. The nuclear chain reaction would either not occur at all, or it would be cut short.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/03/iranian_nuclear_program_could_a_missile_strike_set_off_a_nuclear_detonation_.html

Edited by [icon]
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26 minutes ago, [icon] said:

Nuke warheads don't actually go boom unless they're armed. I believe they can be destroyed without setting off a nuclear reaction... 
 


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/03/iranian_nuclear_program_could_a_missile_strike_set_off_a_nuclear_detonation_.html

You'd still have a massive nuclear event centered on the release of the nuclear material.

Edited by Henry Ford

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33 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

You'd still have a massive nuclear event centered on the release of the nuclear material.

I'm not certain the word "massive" is appropriate here.... 

Is it likely to result in the release of nuclear material which will cause issues? Sure. And that is never good. 

Is it likely to be anywhere near the scale of the warhead detonating through normal/weaponized means? That depends on a lot of factors, but most of what I'm reading is... no. 

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5 minutes ago, [icon] said:

I'm not certain the word "massive" is appropriate here.... 

Is it likely to result in the release of nuclear material which will cause issues? Sure. And that is never good. 

Is it likely to be anywhere near the scale of the warhead detonating through normal/weaponized means? That depends on a lot of factors, but most of what I'm reading is... no. 

No, nothing near the scale of detonation of a nuclear weapon - but it's basically a dirty bomb that'll disperse for a couple miles in every direction - likely more aided by the amount of explosive used to destroy it.

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3 hours ago, Da Guru said:

With cooperation NK can be totally choked off fast.

its very surprising that anyone has NKs back. I mean what is China gaining from supporting that kid? Coal?

You would of thought over the years that SK and  Japan would be building a missle defense system to help counter act this clown. Probably relying on us to protect em......make em pay for protection Donny!!

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15 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

No, nothing near the scale of detonation of a nuclear weapon - but it's basically a dirty bomb that'll disperse for a couple miles in every direction - likely more aided by the amount of explosive used to destroy it.

The whole point of THAAD is that there is no detonation as the intercept missile just uses Kinetic energy to knock it out of the sky.  

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3 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

The whole point of THAAD is that there is no detonation as the intercept missile just uses Kinetic energy to knock it out of the sky.  

We were discussing blowing a nuclear device up with bombs and missiles.

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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

We were discussing blowing a nuclear device up with bombs and missiles.

With the device not being launched. At least thats what I thought 

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7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

We were discussing blowing a nuclear device up with bombs and missiles.

Yup and THAAD does that without blowing up the devise as it is a kinetic weapon much like Sabot round for a tank.  

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1 minute ago, Redwes25 said:

Yup and THAAD does that without blowing up the devise as it is a kinetic weapon much like Sabot round for a tank.  

Without the device being launched?

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4 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Yup and THAAD does that without blowing up the devise as it is a kinetic weapon much like Sabot round for a tank.  

According to this, a good read on topic covering China's weirdness over the system, the nuke will go boom at high altitude. The timing of the detonation is forked so it's just a dirty-bomb mess, better than hitting it's target and better than an emp.

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China's response to this missile system protection Seoul is nuts.

 

Quote

 

Retail corporation Lotte Group, the eighth largest company in South Korea, is a particular target of Chinese wrath on account of its agreement to a land-swap deal that would see land owned by Lotte made available to the U.S. for THAAD deployment.

At least 79 of Lotte's 99 supermarkets in China have been closed or are closing as a result of the row. Major online marketplaces like Alibaba’s Tmall have voluntarily pulled Lotte products. Pulse, the online English-language edition of South Korea's leading financial daily Maeil Business Newspaper, reported that Lotte would lose an estimated $66 million in March from the shuttering of its supermarkets alone.

“We have completely scrubbed the name of Lotte from our website. We‘d rather die than carry its goods in future,” the chief executive of China’s largest cosmetics group-purchasing platform Jumei Youpin, recently wrote.


 

 

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3 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

It intercepts it once in the air.  

I think he's attempting to point out that your comment isn't really in tune with the rest of the discussion going on in the thread.

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10 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

It intercepts it once in the air.  

Right. I think this conversation started about destroying their nukes on the ground. Maybe I'm mistaken though idk, it's hard as hell to keep up

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3 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Right. I think this conversation started about destroying their nukes on the ground. Maybe I'm mistaken though idk, it's hard as hell to keep up

You are correct. 

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41 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Yup and THAAD does that without blowing up the devise as it is a kinetic weapon much like Sabot round for a tank.  

After it's been launched.

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Do we even know if NK can put a nuke in a missile? It's one thing to test a nuke underground, quite another to miniaturize it enough to put on a missle

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2 hours ago, Redwes25 said:

Yup and THAAD does that without blowing up the devise as it is a kinetic weapon much like Sabot round for a tank.  

Hopefully

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57 minutes ago, MikeIke said:

Do we even know if NK can put a nuke in a missile? It's one thing to test a nuke underground, quite another to miniaturize it enough to put on a missle

NK claims they have the ability to do so but what I have read is that the U.S. thinks it is only probable.  

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4 hours ago, Redwes25 said:

NK claims they have the ability to do so but what I have read is that the U.S. thinks it is only probable.  

Hmmm... I wouldn't have even guessed it was in the Probable range.

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