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timschochet

The North Korea Thread: Trump has completely blown this

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But the details of this accord between North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in are worth examining. In any power relationship (and that’s what’s going on here), the key question is, who gets what? In this case, from the vantage of U.S. interests, Kim gets almost everything and we get zip.

The steps that the deal demands North Korea take toward disarmament are negligible at best. Kim expresses his willingness to dismantle the nuclear facility at Yongbyon. But that reactor was used mainly to reprocess plutonium more than a decade ago. North Korea’s main facilities for enriching uranium—the process by which it makes nuclear weapons today—are elsewhere.

Kim also says he will permanently shut down the launch pad at Tongchang-ri, where his scientists have tested intercontinental ballistic missiles, and would do so under the watch of international inspectors. But North Korea’s past few missiles have been tested from mobile launchers, so this too is a fairly meaningless concession.

More (or less) than this, the declaration states that North Korea will take these steps only if the United States responds with corresponding measures. It is unclear what these measures are, but some reasonable guesses are in order. For one thing, there’s been a slight shift in terminology. The declaration calls not merely for the “denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” as in past documents, but a Korean Peninsula “without nuclear weapons and nuclear threats (italics added).” This suggests that North Korea is now demanding a certain amount of denuclearization on the part of the United States.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/moon-jae-in-kim-jong-un-north-korea-summit-denuclearization.html

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2 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

He must not be aware that this was taken care of in "mission accomplished" style last year / earlier this year.  Someone should point him towards that twitter thing I keep hearing about.

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On 9/19/2018 at 10:08 PM, The Commish said:

He must not be aware that this was taken care of in "mission accomplished" style last year / earlier this year.  Someone should point him towards that twitter thing I keep hearing about.

They could also point him to the leaders of North and South Korea, who are setting the table for demilitarization and peace on the Korean Peninsula.  Only the US could #### up this one.  

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Moon and Kim Stage an Exuberant Summit in Pyongyang

Bold proposals on demilitarization break the logjam with Washington.

By Tim Shorrock

SEPTEMBER 20, 2018

“We have lived together for 5,000 years and been separated for 70 years,” South Korean President Moon Jae-in told some 150,000 people who had gathered in Pyongyang’s May Day Stadium to celebrate the summit in a climactic moment on Wednesday night. “We must live together as one people.”

The summit, the third between Moon and North Korean Chairman Kim Jong-un, was designed to tell the world—and skeptics in Washington—that North and South are determined to end, once and for all, the danger of war and nuclear conflict on their divided peninsula and resolve years of tension over North Korea’s nuclear-weapons program.

Minutes after returning from Pyongyang on Thursday night, Moon summarized his conversations with the North Korean leader to hundreds of Korean and foreign reporters covering the summit at the Seoul Press Center. “Chairman Kim expressed his wish to finish complete denuclearization at an early date and focus on economic development,” he said.

In addition to these gestures, President Moon said Thursday, Kim said he wants Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s “North Korea visit and a second summit with President Trump to happen at the earliest convenience in order to speed up the denuclearization process.”

Moon Chung-in, a special adviser to President Moon who accompanied him to Pyongyang, said in a press briefing Wednesday that the situation has fundamentally changed.

North and South Korea now “share a common starting point: prevent random conflicts on the Korean Peninsula, which, in turn, could lead to preventing nuclear conflicts,” he said. “Through this process, the two Koreas should be able to achieve complete denuclearization on the peninsula.”

Highlights of the summit included a detailed agreement to defuse military tensions along the military demarcation line dividing the two countries, a decision by Kim to make an unprecedented visit to Seoul later this year, and a joint proposal to host the Olympic Games in 2032. Moon was accompanied on his trip by dozens of corporate executives, sports stars, artists, and leaders of civic organizations.

In Pyongyang, the two leaders issued a sweeping joint declaration they hope will knit their countries together economically and socially. It includes agreements to quickly link their road and rail connections, promote binational cooperation on environmental protections and public health, and open a permanent facility so divided families can visit each other on a regular basis. Most of the agreements completed proposals first made at their initial summit in Panmunjom last April.

Even though the Koreans left the ball in the US court, the proposals from Moon and Kim were met with immediate approval from President Trump, who tweeted his thanks moments after their joint news conference in Pyongyang. He will meet with Moon on September 25 in New York to discuss the developments and the possibility of a future summit with Kim. In his press conference Thursday, Moon said he would discuss with Trump the idea of declaring an end to the Korean War by the year’s end.

https://www.thenation.com/article/moon-and-kim-stage-an-exuberant-summit-in-pyongyang/

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23 hours ago, Cheese and Crackers said:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1046055417317642243

 

 @AP

FollowingFollowing @AP

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BREAKING: North Korea says it will never disarm nuclear weapons first without more trust in US.

10:13 AM - 29 Sep 2018

That "trust" is expecting us to give up a good bit of our arsenal as well.  That's always been part of the equation from his dad to his grandfather.  It's also been brought up here, and ignored, several times as a reminder.  

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On 9/29/2018 at 11:43 AM, Cheese and Crackers said:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1046055417317642243

 

 @AP

FollowingFollowing @AP

More

BREAKING: North Korea says it will never disarm nuclear weapons first without more trust in US.

10:13 AM - 29 Sep 2018

BREAKING: high school girlfriend says she cannot have sex without trusting you more.  Says the only way to do that is for you to give her your passwords. 

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On 9/25/2018 at 9:57 PM, ren hoek said:

So you're ecstatic that we may be making things easier for the world's most brutal dictator. Who kills people with anti-aircraft guns. Who has wild dogs eat his own uncle. Who arrests people with no warning and no trial where they are tortured and starved. Who feeds the worst propaganda to creates a cult of himself. We're opening up his country to give him and even more power and legitimize his regime even more. Pop the corks!

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I suppose also before we fall over ourselves in love with KJU we should remember it was less than a year ago that we thought that he had sent a nuke at Hawaii.

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This love fest is hilarious.  If Putin joins they will have a Devil’s Triangle.  

Wait, that’s a drinking game.  Never mind.  

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13 minutes ago, zoonation said:

This love fest is hilarious.  If Putin joins they will have a Devil’s Triangle.  

Wait, that’s a drinking game.  Never mind.  

They can just hang out boofing as 16 year old guys do.

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31 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

They can just hang out boofing as 16 year old guys do.

Hope they open a window. 

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N. Korea to U.S.: Lift sanctions immediately or this process isn't going any further. In fact, we might even start (openly) "building up nuclear forces" again.

@hj257

 

 

So, no Nobel Peace Prize? https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-threatens-to-resume-nuclear-work-without-sanctions-relief-1541183659

Edited by Bucky86

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US and North Korea suffer communication breakdown

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Remember when Donald Trump said he and Kim Jong-un fell in love? Well now it seems they just don't talk anymore.

Instead, the US and North Korea appear to be staring one another down, waiting for the other to blink or make a move. And neither appears willing to give way.

Discussions aimed at setting up a second summit between the two leaders didn't happen as planned this week.

Chairman Kim's aide, the hardliner Kim Yong-chol was supposed to travel to New York and meet US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

But the BBC understands that the meeting was cancelled after the State Department discovered that the North Koreans didn't get on the plane as planned.

Relevant

Alternative

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wait, you mean Trump lied and in fact NK didn't denuke?  what a joke that people continue to fall for his nonsense....complete conman

Edited by Banger

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:(

North Korea is moving ahead with its ballistic missile program at 16 hidden bases that have been identified in new commercial satellite images, NYT reports.

Trump tweet on June 13: "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/north-korea-missile-bases.html

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2 hours ago, Banger said:

wait, you mean Trump lied and in fact NK didn't denuke?  what a joke that people continue to fall for his nonsense....complete conman

In this rare instance, I don't think Trump lied. I think he was outsmarted by a much more intelligent man.  Trump was basically campaigning for a Nobel Peace Prize at this point and was desperate to sell the idea that he made peace with North Korea.  Gullible and dumb are not a good combination when it comes to international relations. 

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26 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

In this rare instance, I don't think Trump lied. I think he was outsmarted by a much more intelligent man.  Trump was basically campaigning for a Nobel Peace Prize at this point and was desperate to sell the idea that he made peace with North Korea.  Gullible and dumb are not a good combination when it comes to international relations. 

did Trump really think as a result of press conference that NK was going to denuke?  He's either a liar or just completely incompetent...neither choice is a good one.

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8 minutes ago, Banger said:

did Trump really think as a result of press conference that NK was going to denuke?  He's either a liar or just completely incompetent...neither choice is a good one.

Oh, don't make me choose.  No reason it can't be both.

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From BBC: NK state media claims NK to expel US citizen that entered illegaly from China

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North Korea says it will deport a US citizen who was detained in October after entering illegally from China.

State news agency KCNA said the man, whom it named as Bruce Byron Lowrance, had told officials he was "under the command" of US spy agency the CIA.

A man of the same name was deported from South Korea in November 2017 after being found wandering near the highly fortified border with the North.

There has been no official confirmation of the man's identity.

"While being questioned, he said he had illegally entered the country under the command of the US Central Intelligence Agency," KCNA reported.

"Relevant authorities have decided to expel him from the country."

US authorities have not yet commented on the report.

Last year, US media said the man expelled from South Korea - who has also been named as Lawrence Bruce Byron - had claimed he wanted to help resolve tensions between North Korea and the US.

He is originally from Michigan, the Los Angeles Times reported, and was arrested in a restricted area near the border with the North in Yeoncheon county, about 40 miles (64km) north of the capital Seoul.

North Korea released three US detainees in May ahead of a summit between its leader Kim Jong-un and US President Donald Trump in Singapore.

In 2017, the North released a US student who had been arrested a year earlier for stealing a propaganda sign.

Otto Warmbier was returned to the US in a comatose state and later died, worsening tensions between the two countries.

His parents say his death was the consequence of torture but North Korea says he contracted botulism during detention.

 

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Trump meets with Kim- “NK is denuked!”

Trump talks to MBS “he’s innocent.”

Trump talks with Xi “great progress on trade!”

 

Trump talks with allies “you don’t give enough to nato, I’m withdrawing from our agreements, and when stuff goes wrong in your country I’ll make it about me and how great I am.” 

 

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8 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Satellite images reveal North Korea upgrading unidentified missile base: report

It's hilarious pissing off other Americans until thousands of people get killed. 

HE HASN'T SHOT A MISSILE IN MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

HE HASN'T SHOT A MISSILE IN MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's been attending meetings in Missileers Anonymous. You should be more supportive....

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9 hours ago, Dickies said:

Yea, but they fell in love.

I think there's a break up in their future.....I understand the initial attraction that often happens but I think as time went on they realized they really didn't know each other very much

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look don its not you its me i just need to nuke crap its who i am and i tried to change but i cant take that to the bank bromigo

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2 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Trump meets with Kim- “NK is denuked!”

Trump talks to MBS “he’s innocent.”

Trump talks with Xi “great progress on trade!”

 

Trump talks with allies “you don’t give enough to nato, I’m withdrawing from our agreements, and when stuff goes wrong in your country I’ll make it about me and how great I am.” 

 

Maybe he just needs a better translator?

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39 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Maybe he just needs a better translator?

You can have the best translators in the world, but when the receiver is incapable of receiving correctly (no matter the format) it's not going to do any good.  We've said through this entire thread the gap between what is MEANT by both groups is WOEFULLY large.  It's not all that different from this place.  When you have a person say 2+2=4 and another say "so what you're saying is it's 36....hahahaa, you're so stupid" there's not much the person stating the fact can do.  The reception is completely screwed up with the receiver refusing to acknowledge they are the problem and doing whatever necessary to change the original variable to match their predetermined answer of 36.

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